Was it worth it to stop paying my mortgage? Absolutely 100% yes!
02-20-2012, 01:06 PM
#201
Drifting
That's funny- he did but yet it became a debate. We have debated on lots of side issues too. I love the debate about refinances taking advantage of your people's woes- that was a stretch.
02-21-2012, 02:37 PM
#203
Карты убийцы
The next time I play roulette and place "black 20" and the ball lands on "00," I'm going to pick up my chips renegotiate a lesser loss. Think Ace Rothstein will let me keep at least a few fingers on my left hand?
02-23-2012, 01:13 PM
#207
The Rich Walk Away
http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/23/real...x.htm?iid=Lead
..."In the lower-priced houses you'll see more people defaulting because they can't afford the payments and it's a choice between feeding their family and paying the mortgage on a home that's under water," said Stuart Vener, a national real estate and mortgage expert with the Florida-based Wilshire Holding Group.
"In million-dollar homes, you're looking at people who can afford it, but they have to make a business decision: Does it make sense to make payments on a mortgage when the home is worth less than they owe?" he said. In many cases, it often makes more financial sense to walk away....
..."In the lower-priced houses you'll see more people defaulting because they can't afford the payments and it's a choice between feeding their family and paying the mortgage on a home that's under water," said Stuart Vener, a national real estate and mortgage expert with the Florida-based Wilshire Holding Group.
"In million-dollar homes, you're looking at people who can afford it, but they have to make a business decision: Does it make sense to make payments on a mortgage when the home is worth less than they owe?" he said. In many cases, it often makes more financial sense to walk away....
02-23-2012, 01:34 PM
#208
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The rich shouldn't be walking away. If you can pay, you should be contractually obligated to continue paying.
Yet another example of laws and obligations not being fulfilled and enforced.
Yet another example of laws and obligations not being fulfilled and enforced.
02-23-2012, 02:13 PM
#209
there is now LAW anywhere in this country that says you are obligated to pay back a mortgage under any and all circumstances. If you default, you relinquish the property and any equity stake you may have in that property REGARDLESS of reason of default. Nowhere in any law is there any distinction made like what you are suggesting.
Sorry.
02-23-2012, 02:16 PM
#210
You make an agreement to buy a place or something. You don't pay, it goes back to the "person" you borrowed the money from. That's the law and the enforcement.
02-23-2012, 02:16 PM
#211
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Wrong Sir.
there is now LAW anywhere in this country that says you are obligated to pay back a mortgage under any and all circumstances. If you default, you relinquish the property and any equity stake you may have in that property REGARDLESS of reason of default. Nowhere in any law is there any distinction made like what you are suggesting.
Sorry.
there is now LAW anywhere in this country that says you are obligated to pay back a mortgage under any and all circumstances. If you default, you relinquish the property and any equity stake you may have in that property REGARDLESS of reason of default. Nowhere in any law is there any distinction made like what you are suggesting.
Sorry.
Ignorance and hubris are cyclical.
02-23-2012, 02:17 PM
#212
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02-23-2012, 02:26 PM
#213
My tipping point came sooner than others. Everyone has a tipping point. Everyone who reads any of these threads and condemns me has a tipping point. If things dont turn around you will be forced to make the same decision i did...do you bankrupt your family to keep up with a valueless asset or do you cash in and move on with your life and protect the future of your family.
02-23-2012, 10:31 PM
#214
Drifting
My gosh Bubba why did you start yet another thread on this topic? Based on your earlier threads and countless postings, it sounds like the the money article doesn't even apply to you: a) you did not own a $1M place and b) you could afford the payments.
As I wrote in your first thread, the tipping point for most people is 25%. However, I'm assuming that is with a standard 10% down. My guess the tipping point for you (who put only 5% down) would be around 20%.
Why do you feel like you need our approval in your actions? Some people will agree with you and some people like myself won't. I'm done with this topic and I hope you are too. Let's just agree to disagree and move to more pressing topics, shall we?
For example, what are you going to do when (not if) the Dollar starts losing value over other currencies. Are you going to do like the Greeks and riot and burn things or are you going to protect your assets and ride out the storm? That's a topic that will make a bigger difference in your future than debating about something you did in the past.
As I wrote in your first thread, the tipping point for most people is 25%. However, I'm assuming that is with a standard 10% down. My guess the tipping point for you (who put only 5% down) would be around 20%.
Why do you feel like you need our approval in your actions? Some people will agree with you and some people like myself won't. I'm done with this topic and I hope you are too. Let's just agree to disagree and move to more pressing topics, shall we?
For example, what are you going to do when (not if) the Dollar starts losing value over other currencies. Are you going to do like the Greeks and riot and burn things or are you going to protect your assets and ride out the storm? That's a topic that will make a bigger difference in your future than debating about something you did in the past.
04-25-2012, 07:05 AM
#216
Racer
haven't read the entire thread, yet. but just wanted to say that I'm one of the suckers that bought a house in 2007 and am way underwater, but still able to make the payment.
I think I have to pay down another $30,000 on my mortgage to maybe get 100% loan to value ratio.
President Obama's HARP 2.0 doesn't even want to bother with me because Freddie Mac seems to be a bad word and I keep hearing that they're only helping Fannie Mae mortgages.
ok...now about to spend the next half hour reading this thread...brb
I think I have to pay down another $30,000 on my mortgage to maybe get 100% loan to value ratio.
President Obama's HARP 2.0 doesn't even want to bother with me because Freddie Mac seems to be a bad word and I keep hearing that they're only helping Fannie Mae mortgages.
ok...now about to spend the next half hour reading this thread...brb
04-28-2012, 02:33 AM
#218
Just read the thread. A little late but very informative.
I'd have to agree that you should've never defaulted. I strongly agree on the three R's.
If your situation was the same (not sick, laid off, etc...) it is your responsibility to upheld your loan. You made a financial risk and must be responsible for your actions. Even if your sick or laid off, it is still wrong to default because you basically have to expect the unexpected when purchasing anything of substantial amount. Similar to what another post said, you should be only allowed to finance only 2.5x of your gross income. I would say a 35% down payment should suffice. Almost like getting a girl pregnant and not wanting the kid because you're not ready/don't want one and getting her to get a abortion. Don't have sex then or just don't take the risk. Smarter choice? Of course it is. Right choice? Nope.
What is that quote again? Character is shown at times of struggle
If I had purchase a house, I'd already understand the risk. Decrease in value, bad community, job moves, etc... If you're going risk something, make sure you know what you're doing. It ends up failing? Suck it up and fix it the RIGHT way.
1 pennie to all of us in the thread.... How about 289 million other people?
I'd have to agree that you should've never defaulted. I strongly agree on the three R's.
If your situation was the same (not sick, laid off, etc...) it is your responsibility to upheld your loan. You made a financial risk and must be responsible for your actions. Even if your sick or laid off, it is still wrong to default because you basically have to expect the unexpected when purchasing anything of substantial amount. Similar to what another post said, you should be only allowed to finance only 2.5x of your gross income. I would say a 35% down payment should suffice. Almost like getting a girl pregnant and not wanting the kid because you're not ready/don't want one and getting her to get a abortion. Don't have sex then or just don't take the risk. Smarter choice? Of course it is. Right choice? Nope.
What is that quote again? Character is shown at times of struggle
If I had purchase a house, I'd already understand the risk. Decrease in value, bad community, job moves, etc... If you're going risk something, make sure you know what you're doing. It ends up failing? Suck it up and fix it the RIGHT way.
1 pennie to all of us in the thread.... How about 289 million other people?
04-28-2012, 08:43 AM
#219
^^^that's all good in theory, but trust me buddy...we're not the bad guys here.
There's got to be another quote where you stop bending over and taking it in the azz for your integrity and short sighted future. You have to draw the line when you DO try and work things out the right way and the bank backs you against a corner and won't do anything reasonable (read, I will pay you the inflated rate I agreed to but need a fixed interest rate of today and not the flexible rate that I had will get hit with after the first 10 years). I don't want to get back into the details...but I was totally willing to do what it takes for a fix. The loan I got into at the time, wasn't great, but it was a way to keep the roof over my head and with the promise that if I ever needed to walk away I'd either have 100k...I had no problem signing.
How would you feel if you were shown a ferrari, signed on the dotted line then 2 years later you come out to your garage to find a toyota tercel that the ferrari had turned into. Would you keep paying your ferrari car note? No, you'd take the car to the dealership and tell them to shove it up their azz. No different than a sinking business venture. You had illusions of security based on the market at one time.
You guys are very intelligent, clearly...and I'm all for morals. Don't question that. But how long would guys continue to sink thousands of dollars a month into a bad investment?!? If you say indefinitely because you're a man of your word. You are a fool, and probably full of shit.
Plus, I can't pay my mortgage anymore, I'm paying Gatrhumpy's new TL Type S's car payment!
There's got to be another quote where you stop bending over and taking it in the azz for your integrity and short sighted future. You have to draw the line when you DO try and work things out the right way and the bank backs you against a corner and won't do anything reasonable (read, I will pay you the inflated rate I agreed to but need a fixed interest rate of today and not the flexible rate that I had will get hit with after the first 10 years). I don't want to get back into the details...but I was totally willing to do what it takes for a fix. The loan I got into at the time, wasn't great, but it was a way to keep the roof over my head and with the promise that if I ever needed to walk away I'd either have 100k...I had no problem signing.
How would you feel if you were shown a ferrari, signed on the dotted line then 2 years later you come out to your garage to find a toyota tercel that the ferrari had turned into. Would you keep paying your ferrari car note? No, you'd take the car to the dealership and tell them to shove it up their azz. No different than a sinking business venture. You had illusions of security based on the market at one time.
You guys are very intelligent, clearly...and I'm all for morals. Don't question that. But how long would guys continue to sink thousands of dollars a month into a bad investment?!? If you say indefinitely because you're a man of your word. You are a fool, and probably full of shit.
Plus, I can't pay my mortgage anymore, I'm paying Gatrhumpy's new TL Type S's car payment!
04-28-2012, 11:29 AM
#220
I'm not saying you are. You, yourself, had more justification then the OP on doing this. If I had bought the Ferrari, then I would have kept it. A risk is a risk. Unless I'm in the hospital, or something similar I will NOT go default (well when I get older enough to buy me a house). Integrity is something I keep. The only way out, in my opinion, would be selling the house and/or negotiating with bank for a more agreeable refinance rate.
A lot of things factor into buying a house. Age, expected income during the span of loan, credit, economy, etc... Just because something is not worth as much as before doesn't mean it should just be disposed of. It is true in the aspect that it is causing the downfall of the housing system and creating a giant bubble. Yes they're other several factors, but this is also a major one. Way to many default swaps throughout the lending/banking industry.
You're taking advantage of lending. If you were to pay the whole house in full at time of sale, you wouldn't be able to do this. My problem is that with the same ideology you guys are showing, if everyone was to follow, the US would be gone let alone every single country on this planet. The Great Depression times 50.
Essentially, your decision was neither wrong or right. It was a decision. I can't judge you because of the choice you made, but I hope you can understand my point. Therefore, to be honest, this was a selfish-decision (no disrespect) because the only person it would benefit is you or the OP. It is a matter of understanding basic ideals. You are responsible for what you do. That is why everyone should do there RESEARCH before purchasing or lending. You should know if the neighborhood will turn bad (increase in APT, less maintenance, less community support, decrease in avg cost of living, etc...), house would decrease in value (location is a huge + and the market), and other things. When you decide to do this it just shows me that whoever did it was unprepared and not ready to purchase a house to begin with. I could be wrong or right, I just know I wouldn't have done the same unless it was a life or death kinda situation. (kinda flip-flopped all over)
A lot of things factor into buying a house. Age, expected income during the span of loan, credit, economy, etc... Just because something is not worth as much as before doesn't mean it should just be disposed of. It is true in the aspect that it is causing the downfall of the housing system and creating a giant bubble. Yes they're other several factors, but this is also a major one. Way to many default swaps throughout the lending/banking industry.
You're taking advantage of lending. If you were to pay the whole house in full at time of sale, you wouldn't be able to do this. My problem is that with the same ideology you guys are showing, if everyone was to follow, the US would be gone let alone every single country on this planet. The Great Depression times 50.
Essentially, your decision was neither wrong or right. It was a decision. I can't judge you because of the choice you made, but I hope you can understand my point. Therefore, to be honest, this was a selfish-decision (no disrespect) because the only person it would benefit is you or the OP. It is a matter of understanding basic ideals. You are responsible for what you do. That is why everyone should do there RESEARCH before purchasing or lending. You should know if the neighborhood will turn bad (increase in APT, less maintenance, less community support, decrease in avg cost of living, etc...), house would decrease in value (location is a huge + and the market), and other things. When you decide to do this it just shows me that whoever did it was unprepared and not ready to purchase a house to begin with. I could be wrong or right, I just know I wouldn't have done the same unless it was a life or death kinda situation. (kinda flip-flopped all over)
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rockstar143 (04-28-2012)
04-28-2012, 11:59 AM
#222
05/5AT/Navi/ABP/Quartz
I'm not saying you are. You, yourself, had more justification then the OP on doing this. If I had bought the Ferrari, then I would have kept it. A risk is a risk. Unless I'm in the hospital, or something similar I will NOT go default (well when I get older enough to buy me a house). Integrity is something I keep. The only way out, in my opinion, would be selling the house and/or negotiating with bank for a more agreeable refinance rate.
A lot of things factor into buying a house. Age, expected income during the span of loan, credit, economy, etc... Just because something is not worth as much as before doesn't mean it should just be disposed of. It is true in the aspect that it is causing the downfall of the housing system and creating a giant bubble. Yes they're other several factors, but this is also a major one. Way to many default swaps throughout the lending/banking industry.
You're taking advantage of lending. If you were to pay the whole house in full at time of sale, you wouldn't be able to do this. My problem is that with the same ideology you guys are showing, if everyone was to follow, the US would be gone let alone every single country on this planet. The Great Depression times 50.
Essentially, your decision was neither wrong or right. It was a decision. I can't judge you because of the choice you made, but I hope you can understand my point. Therefore, to be honest, this was a selfish-decision (no disrespect) because the only person it would benefit is you or the OP. It is a matter of understanding basic ideals. You are responsible for what you do. That is why everyone should do there RESEARCH before purchasing or lending. You should know if the neighborhood will turn bad (increase in APT, less maintenance, less community support, decrease in avg cost of living, etc...), house would decrease in value (location is a huge + and the market), and other things. When you decide to do this it just shows me that whoever did it was unprepared and not ready to purchase a house to begin with. I could be wrong or right, I just know I wouldn't have done the same unless it was a life or death kinda situation. (kinda flip-flopped all over)
A lot of things factor into buying a house. Age, expected income during the span of loan, credit, economy, etc... Just because something is not worth as much as before doesn't mean it should just be disposed of. It is true in the aspect that it is causing the downfall of the housing system and creating a giant bubble. Yes they're other several factors, but this is also a major one. Way to many default swaps throughout the lending/banking industry.
You're taking advantage of lending. If you were to pay the whole house in full at time of sale, you wouldn't be able to do this. My problem is that with the same ideology you guys are showing, if everyone was to follow, the US would be gone let alone every single country on this planet. The Great Depression times 50.
Essentially, your decision was neither wrong or right. It was a decision. I can't judge you because of the choice you made, but I hope you can understand my point. Therefore, to be honest, this was a selfish-decision (no disrespect) because the only person it would benefit is you or the OP. It is a matter of understanding basic ideals. You are responsible for what you do. That is why everyone should do there RESEARCH before purchasing or lending. You should know if the neighborhood will turn bad (increase in APT, less maintenance, less community support, decrease in avg cost of living, etc...), house would decrease in value (location is a huge + and the market), and other things. When you decide to do this it just shows me that whoever did it was unprepared and not ready to purchase a house to begin with. I could be wrong or right, I just know I wouldn't have done the same unless it was a life or death kinda situation. (kinda flip-flopped all over)
I'm not trying to cosign anyone else's decisions but if life was totally predictable, all risk and reward would be removed. Obtaining understanding and empathy can be a life long journey.
04-28-2012, 12:27 PM
#223
I actually have real life experience, but do not care to tell/explain them. Nonetheless, I am young and still a lot to learn, but it doesn't matter from 50 years from now, I will still stand by the ideals I have made already unless someone can change it (hard possibility, but I'm open).
I just don't like the standpoint in which if you fail a "business" choice that you can just walk away from it basically unharmed. Life isn't predictable, but you can be prepared. If the OP and rockstar were prepared, none of this would've happened. The OP would've known that the housing market was about to crash, the location/community was getting worse, etc...
You can't predict the future, but you can be prepared and educated of the situation. Following the moral hazard quote, once you do it, you can't stop doing it. If the OP's current house/condo/w.e decrease by 50% he would do it again. This will cause a ripple effect and will spiral into a chain of issues.
I just don't like the standpoint in which if you fail a "business" choice that you can just walk away from it basically unharmed. Life isn't predictable, but you can be prepared. If the OP and rockstar were prepared, none of this would've happened. The OP would've known that the housing market was about to crash, the location/community was getting worse, etc...
You can't predict the future, but you can be prepared and educated of the situation. Following the moral hazard quote, once you do it, you can't stop doing it. If the OP's current house/condo/w.e decrease by 50% he would do it again. This will cause a ripple effect and will spiral into a chain of issues.
04-28-2012, 01:29 PM
#224
Team Owner
How would you feel if you were shown a ferrari, signed on the dotted line then 2 years later you come out to your garage to find a toyota tercel that the ferrari had turned into. Would you keep paying your ferrari car note? No, you'd take the car to the dealership and tell them to shove it up their azz. No different than a sinking business venture. You had illusions of security based on the market at one time.
04-28-2012, 03:30 PM
#225
Racer
I'm sure the OP believes that life is short and do whatever makes you happy...
which is what I tell people when they ask me if they should trade in their 2 year old car for a newer car. LOL
which is what I tell people when they ask me if they should trade in their 2 year old car for a newer car. LOL
04-28-2012, 03:44 PM
#226
05/5AT/Navi/ABP/Quartz
I actually have real life experience, but do not care to tell/explain them. Nonetheless, I am young and still a lot to learn, but it doesn't matter from 50 years from now, I will still stand by the ideals I have made already unless someone can change it (hard possibility, but I'm open).
I just don't like the standpoint in which if you fail a "business" choice that you can just walk away from it basically unharmed. Life isn't predictable, but you can be prepared. If the OP and rockstar were prepared, none of this would've happened. The OP would've known that the housing market was about to crash, the location/community was getting worse, etc...
You can't predict the future, but you can be prepared and educated of the situation. Following the moral hazard quote, once you do it, you can't stop doing it. If the OP's current house/condo/w.e decrease by 50% he would do it again. This will cause a ripple effect and will spiral into a chain of issues.
I just don't like the standpoint in which if you fail a "business" choice that you can just walk away from it basically unharmed. Life isn't predictable, but you can be prepared. If the OP and rockstar were prepared, none of this would've happened. The OP would've known that the housing market was about to crash, the location/community was getting worse, etc...
You can't predict the future, but you can be prepared and educated of the situation. Following the moral hazard quote, once you do it, you can't stop doing it. If the OP's current house/condo/w.e decrease by 50% he would do it again. This will cause a ripple effect and will spiral into a chain of issues.
You think that you can educate yourself and plan for any and all events. That's just dead ass wrong. I seem to recall reading about some of your family financial troubles. Unless you were the point person making all the decisions this was just an observation, not really experience.
The current administration is trying all of these things to prevent the ripple effect you mention. Some people are always going to try and take advantage when they see that it's possible.
04-28-2012, 03:57 PM
#227
Well written, the Champ. And I agree about the moral integrity, trust me. You have no idea how much, I was raised with a strong code to always pay what you owe.
About the Ferrari, I'm not saying you go outside and see a depreciated ferrari, I'm saying that LITERALLY your Ferrari is now a Tercel that you owe 200K on. You would continue to pay it? No you wouldn't. You'd drive it to the dealership and tell them to shove it up their ass.
And PS, I'm not NOT paying my mortgage without any principles. I'm in negotiations with the bank to take the hit on my credit and to sell my house at a huge discount to a perfect stranger. They made almost 100 grand in interest from me in 4 years, by my own hand no less...even then, they were not willing to negotiate with me (even though they strung me along for 13 months telling me that my "packet" was being considered and approved), work with me, refinance me (because home has no equity now). I lost my roommate that used to help me pay it and now I can't afford it anymore. If it's over 30% of your gross income they won't even give you the money to buy it.
They made out like a bandit and I have a house worth nothing and a huge monthly interest only payment. Like renting except about 1000 more a month to "rent" this townhouse then it would be to rent a real house...and when it rains and the roof leaks or termites start swarming, I have to deal with it myself.
You all need to get off your high horse, and stop stereotyping. If I had bought my house at 150...and it had gone up to 250 and then dropped to 100 and I had a conventional 30 year mortgage with a decent interest rate that I could afford. I'd still be paying it without a problem. I literally pay everything else I have to pay. Including and attorney to counter the bank and to facilitate the short sale.
About the Ferrari, I'm not saying you go outside and see a depreciated ferrari, I'm saying that LITERALLY your Ferrari is now a Tercel that you owe 200K on. You would continue to pay it? No you wouldn't. You'd drive it to the dealership and tell them to shove it up their ass.
And PS, I'm not NOT paying my mortgage without any principles. I'm in negotiations with the bank to take the hit on my credit and to sell my house at a huge discount to a perfect stranger. They made almost 100 grand in interest from me in 4 years, by my own hand no less...even then, they were not willing to negotiate with me (even though they strung me along for 13 months telling me that my "packet" was being considered and approved), work with me, refinance me (because home has no equity now). I lost my roommate that used to help me pay it and now I can't afford it anymore. If it's over 30% of your gross income they won't even give you the money to buy it.
They made out like a bandit and I have a house worth nothing and a huge monthly interest only payment. Like renting except about 1000 more a month to "rent" this townhouse then it would be to rent a real house...and when it rains and the roof leaks or termites start swarming, I have to deal with it myself.
You all need to get off your high horse, and stop stereotyping. If I had bought my house at 150...and it had gone up to 250 and then dropped to 100 and I had a conventional 30 year mortgage with a decent interest rate that I could afford. I'd still be paying it without a problem. I literally pay everything else I have to pay. Including and attorney to counter the bank and to facilitate the short sale.
04-29-2012, 06:14 AM
#228
I feel the need...
We are at a bad and difficult point in our financial history as a nation. We don't have debtors prison or flog people on the public square. This is a nation where you get to have a second chance. Unfortunately some of us have also decided that we know what's best for everybody else.
What I have an issue with is someone who crows about walking away even though he had the means to repay (didn't lose his/her job, wasn't suffering from an expensive dehabilitating illness) and is trying to promote more such behavior.
The OP used the financial system for gain. Note his profit on his first flip with very little money down, parlayed into his next flip and this time he lost and wanted the rest of us to pick up the tab for his gambling habit.
So on one hand he loves the bank who gave him the loan, but he hates the bank that gave him another loan. Our banking system won't last for long if too many people do what the OP did. If you hate banks, then live without credit.
04-29-2012, 12:26 PM
#229
AZ Community Team
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The Banks, Loan Originators, Appraisers and Mortgage Brokers abused the financial system for gain. .... and let the rest of us to pick up the tab for their gambling habit .... and for the most part walked away Scot free.
Sucks when it happens to you (the bank) doesn't it.
04-29-2012, 01:15 PM
#230
Nobody here is advocating debtors prison or public flogging (at least I'm not). You are wise in noting that people deserve a second chance, that is what bankruptcy proceedings are for. To weed out those who are abusing the system and have still have the ability to repay some of their debt vs those who deserve a fresh start.
What I have an issue with is someone who crows about walking away even though he had the means to repay (didn't lose his/her job, wasn't suffering from an expensive dehabilitating illness) and is trying to promote more such behavior.
The OP used the financial system for gain. Note his profit on his first flip with very little money down, parlayed into his next flip and this time he lost and wanted the rest of us to pick up the tab for his gambling habit.
So on one hand he loves the bank who gave him the loan, but he hates the bank that gave him another loan. Our banking system won't last for long if too many people do what the OP did. If you hate banks, then live without credit.
What I have an issue with is someone who crows about walking away even though he had the means to repay (didn't lose his/her job, wasn't suffering from an expensive dehabilitating illness) and is trying to promote more such behavior.
The OP used the financial system for gain. Note his profit on his first flip with very little money down, parlayed into his next flip and this time he lost and wanted the rest of us to pick up the tab for his gambling habit.
So on one hand he loves the bank who gave him the loan, but he hates the bank that gave him another loan. Our banking system won't last for long if too many people do what the OP did. If you hate banks, then live without credit.
....
The Banks, Loan Originators, Appraisers and Mortgage Brokers abused the financial system for gain. .... and let the rest of us to pick up the tab for their gambling habit .... and for the most part walked away Scot free.
Sucks when it happens to you (the bank) doesn't it.
The Banks, Loan Originators, Appraisers and Mortgage Brokers abused the financial system for gain. .... and let the rest of us to pick up the tab for their gambling habit .... and for the most part walked away Scot free.
Sucks when it happens to you (the bank) doesn't it.
04-29-2012, 01:59 PM
#231
05/5AT/Navi/ABP/Quartz
Nobody here is advocating debtors prison or public flogging (at least I'm not). You are wise in noting that people deserve a second chance, that is what bankruptcy proceedings are for. To weed out those who are abusing the system and have still have the ability to repay some of their debt vs those who deserve a fresh start.
What I have an issue with is someone who crows about walking away even though he had the means to repay (didn't lose his/her job, wasn't suffering from an expensive dehabilitating illness) and is trying to promote more such behavior.
The OP used the financial system for gain. Note his profit on his first flip with very little money down, parlayed into his next flip and this time he lost and wanted the rest of us to pick up the tab for his gambling habit.
So on one hand he loves the bank who gave him the loan, but he hates the bank that gave him another loan. Our banking system won't last for long if too many people do what the OP did. If you hate banks, then live without credit.
What I have an issue with is someone who crows about walking away even though he had the means to repay (didn't lose his/her job, wasn't suffering from an expensive dehabilitating illness) and is trying to promote more such behavior.
The OP used the financial system for gain. Note his profit on his first flip with very little money down, parlayed into his next flip and this time he lost and wanted the rest of us to pick up the tab for his gambling habit.
So on one hand he loves the bank who gave him the loan, but he hates the bank that gave him another loan. Our banking system won't last for long if too many people do what the OP did. If you hate banks, then live without credit.
I'm not an attorney but think I understand some contracts. The mortgage document is a contract and spells out all terms including default and remedies. I am not sure what the solution is but clearly it's not either extreme. The barbarians are storming the gates.
04-29-2012, 05:14 PM
#232
Suzuka Master
About the Ferrari, I'm not saying you go outside and see a depreciated ferrari, I'm saying that LITERALLY your Ferrari is now a Tercel that you owe 200K on. You would continue to pay it? No you wouldn't. You'd drive it to the dealership and tell them to shove it up their ass. .
Sure, who wouldn't? Other than the fact that it's a complete and utter fantasy that has never happened in the history of banking, it makes for a compelling story, even if it has absolutely zero relevance to anything that has ever happened in real life.
04-29-2012, 05:16 PM
#233
Suzuka Master
....
The Banks, Loan Originators, Appraisers and Mortgage Brokers abused the financial system for gain. .... and let the rest of us to pick up the tab for their gambling habit .... and for the most part walked away Scot free.
Sucks when it happens to you (the bank) doesn't it.
The Banks, Loan Originators, Appraisers and Mortgage Brokers abused the financial system for gain. .... and let the rest of us to pick up the tab for their gambling habit .... and for the most part walked away Scot free.
Sucks when it happens to you (the bank) doesn't it.
04-29-2012, 05:26 PM
#234
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Which part is legally wrong if the mortage contract has an allowance (and remedy) for default by the borrower?
And if the bank chooses to re-negotiate the remedy for default instead of foreclosing, is the borrower wrong in a legal sense?
04-29-2012, 11:39 PM
#236
The borrower isn't wrong in that sense, but it is like a chain. Borrower legally is OK, while the bank has lost $$$ on a X loan. That X loan decreases X gross for the company. Decrease in X gross means layoffs. X amount of jobs left is equal to X amounts of tax dollars given to bank to reinstate X amount back to the bank that lost the money so they don't lay off x amount of people that would cause a problem for the economy. The banks side is that something is better then nothing. I could be talking out of my ass, but it seems like this is the issue.
04-30-2012, 12:24 AM
#237
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.... Your payment is due by x day of each month. If you fail to pay on time we may _____ or _____. If you fail to pay for x period of time we may find your account in default .... refer to collections or reposess. ....
They 'allow', or maybe 'provision' is a better word, for default then list the things they may do (remedies) when you are in default.
It's a part of the contract. It basically says, you can (i.e. are allowed to) default (and they'll define what default means) BUT if you do default we can do x, y and z (remedies for the lender).
Naturally neither party wants or normally expects a default, but there are provisions for it. Things change .... stuff happens .... economies melt-down .... defaults occasionally occur.
That's why the banks are SUPPOSED to have enough on-hand assets to cover a percentage of their risk (which they almost uniformly, and in some cases fatally, failed to do in this whole housing mess they created).
04-30-2012, 12:34 AM
#238
Well there is a provision in 4 contracts I've signed (house, 3 apartments) and they all say you have to pay the full amount owed. :/
Maybe its a Texas thing? Student thing? But all of it says that you have to pay the full monies owed to get out of the contract. Or you will be foreclosed and/or kicked out then would be sent to collections/litigation.
Maybe its a Texas thing? Student thing? But all of it says that you have to pay the full monies owed to get out of the contract. Or you will be foreclosed and/or kicked out then would be sent to collections/litigation.
04-30-2012, 12:51 AM
#239
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Well there is a provision in 4 contracts I've signed (house, 3 apartments) and they all say you have to pay the full amount owed. :/
Maybe its a Texas thing? Student thing? But all of it says that you have to pay the full monies owed to get out of the contract. Or you will be foreclosed and/or kicked out then would be sent to collections/litigation.
Maybe its a Texas thing? Student thing? But all of it says that you have to pay the full monies owed to get out of the contract. Or you will be foreclosed and/or kicked out then would be sent to collections/litigation.
So you can default; just stop paying. And if you do, these are the penalties. Your choice.
At that point you're in a game of chicken. If you've got big enough balls, maybe you get them to settle for $0.50 on the dollar. OR maybe you end up in court with a judgement plus court costs to pay.
04-30-2012, 01:10 AM
#240
Yeah, thankfully, I'm fine.
My credit has gone down the drain since signing those apartments/house. Nothing to do with the houses, but with other things like my credit cards, AT&T (long story), and other things that accumulated to about $8k. :/
I am wondering if I can settle $8k 25% assuming the collection agencies purchase the debt for 15-20%
My credit has gone down the drain since signing those apartments/house. Nothing to do with the houses, but with other things like my credit cards, AT&T (long story), and other things that accumulated to about $8k. :/
I am wondering if I can settle $8k 25% assuming the collection agencies purchase the debt for 15-20%