Was it worth it to stop paying my mortgage? Absolutely 100% yes!
02-15-2012, 09:41 AM
#161
Any mortgage has a clause that you can pay it off early. My bank routinely includes a flyer with the monthly statement telling me that now is a great time to refinance. Refinancing doesn't negatively affect property value.
It's actually keeping the mortgage brokers employed.
02-15-2012, 10:23 AM
#163
Drifting
You're trying to equate a normal REFI activity as the same as picking the pockets of dead people- you're argument is failing even worse than before. Give it up.
02-15-2012, 10:32 AM
#164
Point being, there is language in the mortgage CONTRACT explaining details like pre-payment, default, etc.
Someone who is refinancing (much like someone who is strategically defaulting) is exercising their legal right to take a course of action related to the loan.
When you refinance you are preventing your original lender from collecting tens of thousands of dollars in interest that you AGREED to pay...how dare you!
Look, i have no problem with refinancing and i have no problem with strategic default, but whether you like it or not, its a VERY easy comparison to draw...the direct result of a refi is a drastic reduction in profit to your lender.
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rockstar143 (02-15-2012)
02-15-2012, 10:42 AM
#165
Since you're smarter than the rest of us, go ahead and calculate our share of $6 trillion-plus of agency debt that’s federally guaranteed and isn't on the federal balance sheet but should.
Try again Bubba, see this where guys like you and I are different. Nowhere in this thread (or anywhere) am I looking for a handout or a do-over. I make financial decisions and abide by them. I don't cherrypick my winners and ask my neighbors to ante up for my losing positions.
Man up? You've got a very twisted definition of manning up. I think most people would define manning up to mean doing the right thing even though the outcome may be in doubt and manning up takes a lot of effort. There is no free lunch and strategically defaulting is not the equivalent of winning the lotto.
Bubba, you are a case study in myopia. Almost fascinating actually, in observing your blissful ignorance on how our banking system functions. Just like NuttyPro, you live in an alternate universe where your actions magically have no bearing on the outcomes of others.
Bubba being angry doesn't give you the right to renege on your financial obligations. Random violent crime can happen in any big city. And your sob story doesn't mesh with the reality you claimed in an earlier post, if your neighborhood was so crime ridden and you feared for your life, why is your former neighborhood rebounding so quickly?
That doesn't sound like a neighborhood that is in shambles and poor lil Bubba just had to default so he could escape from 'da gang infested hood.
Thanks for the 'grats on my refi. I just locked 2.875 and will pay less interest on my mortgage over the next five years than you'll pay in rent over the next nine months. And I can certainly stomach another 10% loss in mark to market value sine we have no intention of selling in the next two years.
Try again Bubba, see this where guys like you and I are different. Nowhere in this thread (or anywhere) am I looking for a handout or a do-over. I make financial decisions and abide by them. I don't cherrypick my winners and ask my neighbors to ante up for my losing positions.
Man up? You've got a very twisted definition of manning up. I think most people would define manning up to mean doing the right thing even though the outcome may be in doubt and manning up takes a lot of effort. There is no free lunch and strategically defaulting is not the equivalent of winning the lotto.
Bubba, you are a case study in myopia. Almost fascinating actually, in observing your blissful ignorance on how our banking system functions. Just like NuttyPro, you live in an alternate universe where your actions magically have no bearing on the outcomes of others.
Bubba being angry doesn't give you the right to renege on your financial obligations. Random violent crime can happen in any big city. And your sob story doesn't mesh with the reality you claimed in an earlier post, if your neighborhood was so crime ridden and you feared for your life, why is your former neighborhood rebounding so quickly?
That doesn't sound like a neighborhood that is in shambles and poor lil Bubba just had to default so he could escape from 'da gang infested hood.
Thanks for the 'grats on my refi. I just locked 2.875 and will pay less interest on my mortgage over the next five years than you'll pay in rent over the next nine months. And I can certainly stomach another 10% loss in mark to market value sine we have no intention of selling in the next two years.
I hate to break it to you but my strategic default was a "free lunch" and essentially was like winning the lotto for me. The net result was a forgiveness of over $100,000 dollars and a binding agreement that no parties will ever pursue me for that difference. I didnt "pay" for that with anything but a (temporary) hit to my credit which is of no concequence to me whatsoever.
From a private/personal real estate perspective, the neighborhood I was in, IS in shambles. Values have dropped 30-75% depending on exact location, building, etc. COMMERCIAL real estate is a different story and are mutually exclusive.
I asked you to quantify the effect of what I did on you. I have no interest in it because you are absolutely right, i firmly beleive what i did has had no effect on anyone and my previous post explained in detail how and why that is a true statement.
So again I ask, how did the transaction between my lenders, the new owner, and myself, have any impact on you or anyone else?
02-15-2012, 11:08 AM
#166
What the hell are you talking about? who are you saying are the "dead people"? your analogy makes no sense...whatever...irrelevant.
Point being, there is language in the mortgage CONTRACT explaining details like pre-payment, default, etc.
Someone who is refinancing (much like someone who is strategically defaulting) is exercising their legal right to take a course of action related to the loan.
When you refinance you are preventing your original lender from collecting tens of thousands of dollars in interest that you AGREED to pay...how dare you!
Look, i have no problem with refinancing and i have no problem with strategic default, but whether you like it or not, its a VERY easy comparison to draw...the direct result of a refi is a drastic reduction in profit to your lender.
Point being, there is language in the mortgage CONTRACT explaining details like pre-payment, default, etc.
Someone who is refinancing (much like someone who is strategically defaulting) is exercising their legal right to take a course of action related to the loan.
When you refinance you are preventing your original lender from collecting tens of thousands of dollars in interest that you AGREED to pay...how dare you!
Look, i have no problem with refinancing and i have no problem with strategic default, but whether you like it or not, its a VERY easy comparison to draw...the direct result of a refi is a drastic reduction in profit to your lender.
the dead people pocket picking was my analogy which that poster is pretending not to understand. Reminds me of my ex...she would just ignore the point and harp on something she pretended not to understand.
Don't even get me started on the over $90K I DID pay the bank as "interest only" which didn't budge my principle. My fault, sure...I signed for it when I was told I was buying something that I could walk away from and make money on. They got theirs... And I will sleep just fine at night...
02-15-2012, 01:28 PM
#167
Drifting
^Oh boy I do understand the analogy and it's still a poor one. You guys are basically insinuating that anyone that took advantage of the low interest rates and REFI'd are akin to people that didn't actually shoot a person but instead picked his pockets.
Again - it's unrelated to what this thread is all about which is 'Geez I would do a strategic default again because I saved 100K+ with no tangible downside. I'm a a smart guy and the rest of you people currently paying your loans for underwater property or property barely above are fools because real estate will still crater'
Did I miss anything Bubba or Rockstar?
Again - it's unrelated to what this thread is all about which is 'Geez I would do a strategic default again because I saved 100K+ with no tangible downside. I'm a a smart guy and the rest of you people currently paying your loans for underwater property or property barely above are fools because real estate will still crater'
Did I miss anything Bubba or Rockstar?
02-15-2012, 02:00 PM
#168
Well, I respect that in your opinion, it's a poor analogy...
But you're still not admitting to the hypocrisy of coming on this thread...saying "fk you" to us and anyone that might be in a bind due to this topic and then going and admitting that he is also benefiting from it in another form.
I know it's not you, but you kinda stood behind him.
But you're still not admitting to the hypocrisy of coming on this thread...saying "fk you" to us and anyone that might be in a bind due to this topic and then going and admitting that he is also benefiting from it in another form.
I know it's not you, but you kinda stood behind him.
02-15-2012, 04:19 PM
#169
Drifting
^Dude there is no hypocrisy here. If you guys were foreclosed upon because you couldn't afford your payments and couldn't refi for a lower rate (because you were under water) and honestly were trying to make things work, then you would have a point on a hypocrisy angle. But that is not the case with Bubba who started this thread.
You guys CHOSE to not make your payments even though you could- simple as that.
You guys CHOSE to not make your payments even though you could- simple as that.
02-15-2012, 06:42 PM
#170
Карты убийцы
I'm not taking sides on this default issue... I owe less on my house than I do my Acura. Yes, I'd like a bigger house, but given the family situation, I think it's better to stay for awhile. My house was built in 1993, and I have replaced the roof and a new HVAC system.
That said, you can see what kind of professionals you deal with when the best somebody can do is call you NuttyPro on a fucking car forum. I don't want their business.
Edit: I have never refi since taking the loan at 7.25% in 1993.
That said, you can see what kind of professionals you deal with when the best somebody can do is call you NuttyPro on a fucking car forum. I don't want their business.
Edit: I have never refi since taking the loan at 7.25% in 1993.
02-15-2012, 07:03 PM
#171
Exactly, well the point was that there was an assumption that I was in the same boat on all levels and that's not the case. I've even explained my hardship throughout this thread.
And also, what about a person that is in a situation where they HAD to bail?! Couldn't they get a 2nd or 3rd job to make it happen? At what point do you fold em and try and do a short sale and walk away and become a renter?!
Fibonacci came on here, assuming, judgmental and high and might and told me and Bubba "Fuck you"...not I don't agree or IF you are doing it for such and such a reason it's not cool. Straight up Fuck you...So my point was that after all his judging and ranting and raving I was saying that he's a POS for taking a lower interest rate for knocking the whole situation and all the harm we're doing and in the same breath goes and refinances to keep more money in HIS pocket and less in the Banks pocket...also, NOT what he agreed to with the bank.
Prof, you're my hero, if I had stuck it out, I'd have my place paid off by the time I was 52 or sooner, bought it originally at 22 and of course if I hadn't been a moron to put the ex on the title without being married. You're so young and going to be an actual homeowner, which is admirable.
I guess I shouldn't have bothered responding after the Fk you...that should have been an indication of what kind of debater he was...states whatever as fact and stands by it no matter what. Had that convo started off in person, it would have WAY differently, that much I assure you.
J.
And also, what about a person that is in a situation where they HAD to bail?! Couldn't they get a 2nd or 3rd job to make it happen? At what point do you fold em and try and do a short sale and walk away and become a renter?!
Fibonacci came on here, assuming, judgmental and high and might and told me and Bubba "Fuck you"...not I don't agree or IF you are doing it for such and such a reason it's not cool. Straight up Fuck you...So my point was that after all his judging and ranting and raving I was saying that he's a POS for taking a lower interest rate for knocking the whole situation and all the harm we're doing and in the same breath goes and refinances to keep more money in HIS pocket and less in the Banks pocket...also, NOT what he agreed to with the bank.
Prof, you're my hero, if I had stuck it out, I'd have my place paid off by the time I was 52 or sooner, bought it originally at 22 and of course if I hadn't been a moron to put the ex on the title without being married. You're so young and going to be an actual homeowner, which is admirable.
I guess I shouldn't have bothered responding after the Fk you...that should have been an indication of what kind of debater he was...states whatever as fact and stands by it no matter what. Had that convo started off in person, it would have WAY differently, that much I assure you.
J.
02-15-2012, 07:26 PM
#172
^Dude there is no hypocrisy here. If you guys were foreclosed upon because you couldn't afford your payments and couldn't refi for a lower rate (because you were under water) and honestly were trying to make things work, then you would have a point on a hypocrisy angle. But that is not the case with Bubba who started this thread.
You guys CHOSE to not make your payments even though you could- simple as that.
You guys CHOSE to not make your payments even though you could- simple as that.
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rockstar143 (02-15-2012)
02-15-2012, 08:55 PM
#174
Drifting
Do you care to elaborate where this clause is? Thanks.
02-16-2012, 05:35 AM
#175
I feel the need...
NuttyPro, you earned you nickname long ago and you have a very short memory of your retarded behavior in multiple threads and much worse name calling and threats via PM.
02-16-2012, 05:47 AM
#176
I feel the need...
So my point was that after all his judging and ranting and raving I was saying that he's a POS for taking a lower interest rate for knocking the whole situation and all the harm we're doing and in the same breath goes and refinances to keep more money in HIS pocket and less in the Banks pocket...also, NOT what he agreed to with the bank.
02-16-2012, 09:20 AM
#177
There you go again with your big words, arrogance, condescension and ignorance. Must be nice to do it on the internet because I'm doubtful you're able to pull this off in real life.
Yeah, we impacted your life alright.
You're welcome for the 2% refi rate...
I didn't equivocate anything...I said you were an ahole like everyone else. Some people are suffering from the current state of affairs and some people are benefiting from it. You're the latter since you seem to conveniently miss that point every time I point it out.
So yeah, now that I think about it...fk YOU, actually.
Yeah, we impacted your life alright.
You're welcome for the 2% refi rate...
I didn't equivocate anything...I said you were an ahole like everyone else. Some people are suffering from the current state of affairs and some people are benefiting from it. You're the latter since you seem to conveniently miss that point every time I point it out.
So yeah, now that I think about it...fk YOU, actually.
02-16-2012, 05:20 PM
#178
I feel the need...
How exactly are you taking credit for my refi? Do you moonlight as Uncle Ben and work for the Federal Reserve? The ballooning Fed balance sheet to the tune of $3 Trillion, the sovereign debt crisis in Europe and the risk-off trade is why 10 year treasuries are so low and thus low mortgage rates.What you fail to grasp is that the avg homeowner can't refi right now precisely because of the bull$hit you and Bubba are pulling by fucking up comparables. I'm able to refi because we put well in excess of 20% down when we purchased our home and still have plenty of equity.
In case you didn't know the private label mortgage market is essentially dead. Something like 95% of all mortgage originations in the past few years are committed to only if they are agency eligible. When Bubba says "FUCK THE BANKS" he's actually saying "FUCK THE TAXPAYER". For the 53% of us who actually pay federal income taxes, you can probably guess why the tea party is such a big movement in the Republican party right now.
Since you clearly graduated from the NuttyPro school of economics, I'm gonna take a pass on this wonderful debate. Beating my head against the wall is not something I enjoy.
Can you smell what the rockstar is cookin?
Yeah, its called a bowlfull of
Buh-bye.
02-16-2012, 05:27 PM
#179
You're cute when you get all technical like that. It's pretty obvious you do know your shit.
We'll just have to agree to disagree...
You love the banks and they never did, and can't do any wrong.
And I disagree. The details of my current situation that has caused me to be in this boat seem to continually escape your rebuttals. Pretty convenient.
I'll go back a couple pages, take your apology for the "fuck you" and leave it at that.
J.
We'll just have to agree to disagree...
You love the banks and they never did, and can't do any wrong.
And I disagree. The details of my current situation that has caused me to be in this boat seem to continually escape your rebuttals. Pretty convenient.
I'll go back a couple pages, take your apology for the "fuck you" and leave it at that.
J.
02-16-2012, 05:42 PM
#180
I feel the need...
The details of my current situation that has caused me to be in this boat seem to continually escape your rebuttals. Pretty convenient.
Rockstar143's '04 NBP progress thread-Updated 2/12/12 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... Last Page)
I do apologize for the F bombs, you are right, that was a bit over the top and uncalled for. I must have had a crappy day in the mailroom.
02-16-2012, 06:41 PM
#181
Buying and selling on ebay, and buying cheap affordable mods keeps me from being too depressed about my housing situation...true story.
See, at the heart of it all, I guess we can basically agree. I appreciate the apology.
Trust me, brother...I look forward to the day where I can rebuild my credit and start paying my bills like I always have. This situation, although at the root of it, my own fault for being a moron, has been a huge thorn in my side. The decision to be where I'm at now, did not come lightly.
See, at the heart of it all, I guess we can basically agree. I appreciate the apology.
Trust me, brother...I look forward to the day where I can rebuild my credit and start paying my bills like I always have. This situation, although at the root of it, my own fault for being a moron, has been a huge thorn in my side. The decision to be where I'm at now, did not come lightly.
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rockstar143 (02-16-2012)
Readin some of the posts...shit just got real...
02-16-2012, 11:17 PM
#184
David_Dude
Buying and selling on ebay, and buying cheap affordable mods keeps me from being too depressed about my housing situation...true story.
See, at the heart of it all, I guess we can basically agree. I appreciate the apology.
Trust me, brother...I look forward to the day where I can rebuild my credit and start paying my bills like I always have. This situation, although at the root of it, my own fault for being a moron, has been a huge thorn in my side. The decision to be where I'm at now, did not come lightly.
See, at the heart of it all, I guess we can basically agree. I appreciate the apology.
Trust me, brother...I look forward to the day where I can rebuild my credit and start paying my bills like I always have. This situation, although at the root of it, my own fault for being a moron, has been a huge thorn in my side. The decision to be where I'm at now, did not come lightly.
At least credit is easy to build. It takes 2 yrs of on time payments to see some light at the end of the tunnel. I've noticed using 30% or less of your credit limit (10% makes an even better difference) helps you out big time.
02-17-2012, 10:26 AM
#186
What you fail to grasp is that the avg homeowner can't refi right now precisely because of the bull$hit you and Bubba are pulling by fucking up comparables. I'm able to refi because we put well in excess of 20% down when we purchased our home and still have plenty of equity.
Thanks again for another wrong answer, please try again.
02-17-2012, 10:42 AM
#187
^Dude there is no hypocrisy here. If you guys were foreclosed upon because you couldn't afford your payments and couldn't refi for a lower rate (because you were under water) and honestly were trying to make things work, then you would have a point on a hypocrisy angle. But that is not the case with Bubba who started this thread.
You guys CHOSE to not make your payments even though you could- simple as that.
You guys CHOSE to not make your payments even though you could- simple as that.
The bottom line is that any of those options are fucking stupid. Anyone who dips into their savings or 401k to make payments on an upside down home loan is a complete idiot and has no idea what they are doing. These mindless sheep are only hurting themselves in the long run as that real cash that they are essentially flushing down the toilet to make interest-heavy payments, reducing very little principle on a loan that is already upside down perpetuates their negative equity position.
Simple math shows that a 30% drop in value will take nearly a 50% INCREASE in value to recoup. how long do you think its going to take for values to regain 50% from where they are now? How much interest are these people going to pay on their upside down loan in the meantime? People need to look at those hard numbers in their own situation to truely see how strategic default is of huge benefit (provided your finances are otherwise sound, you do not have a need for credit in the short term)
and as far as making the choice to default, who exactly makes the determination what is and isnt an adequate reason/hardship for making that choice? You? the lender? some douche bag running his mouth on an internet forum? The government?
I didnt lose my job and have my finances secure and defaulted, ok im a bad person.
What if i didnt lose my job but i had some medical bills stack up?
What if i found out my wife was pregnant with twins and both my finances and current property will NOT support the growth in family short of default?
What if the home was found to have severe structural problems that would cost well beyond a persons means to fix all while the loan is severely upside down?
What if i did not lose my job but i got a significant paycut?
What if there was a major family issue and i had to step in and help out someone financially who was even worse off than me in my family?
what if there was a family issue that required taking several months of unpaid time off?
What if my child needed medical treatment that was not covered by insurance?
Are you to tell me how to prioritize situations like this vs paying a mortgage on a severely underwater property?
no, you arent. These decisions are up to the individuals to make. Not everyone is lucky enough to live in an area where values havent dropped substantially. Not every was able to put down 20% plus when they bought their home several years ago.
Who are you to suggest that anyone in any of the cases above should keep paying the mortgage regardless of any other life circumstances??
Im sorry but a mortgage is NOT a #1 priority and if it is your #1 priority, you are a fool
02-17-2012, 10:45 AM
#188
The Third Ball
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Age: 45
Posts: 49,122
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2,571 Posts
Wait wait wait.
So in all of this are you telling me, that when all is said and done.
You're little tiled backsplash in your kitchen didn't keep your property value high enough to avoid from going upside?
So in all of this are you telling me, that when all is said and done.
You're little tiled backsplash in your kitchen didn't keep your property value high enough to avoid from going upside?
02-17-2012, 11:28 AM
#190
LOL! welcome to the thread! that cracked me up. Hell, i couldve put in a solid gold countertop and backsplash and it would have still be upside down. But thanks for the laugh today! Cheers
02-18-2012, 10:16 PM
#191
Drifting
Everyone who defaults makes that choice...in fact VERY VERY few people truly cannot make the payments before defaulting. Even those with job loss and genuine hardship, most folks could rearrange some finances, dip into savings/401k, change lifestyles, etc, to keep up with payments.
The bottom line is that any of those options are fucking stupid. Anyone who dips into their savings or 401k to make payments on an upside down home loan is a complete idiot and has no idea what they are doing. These mindless sheep are only hurting themselves in the long run as that real cash that they are essentially flushing down the toilet to make interest-heavy payments, reducing very little principle on a loan that is already upside down perpetuates their negative equity position.
Simple math shows that a 30% drop in value will take nearly a 50% INCREASE in value to recoup. how long do you think its going to take for values to regain 50% from where they are now? How much interest are these people going to pay on their upside down loan in the meantime? People need to look at those hard numbers in their own situation to truely see how strategic default is of huge benefit (provided your finances are otherwise sound, you do not have a need for credit in the short term)
and as far as making the choice to default, who exactly makes the determination what is and isnt an adequate reason/hardship for making that choice? You? the lender? some douche bag running his mouth on an internet forum? The government?
I didnt lose my job and have my finances secure and defaulted, ok im a bad person.
What if i didnt lose my job but i had some medical bills stack up?
What if i found out my wife was pregnant with twins and both my finances and current property will NOT support the growth in family short of default?
What if the home was found to have severe structural problems that would cost well beyond a persons means to fix all while the loan is severely upside down?
What if i did not lose my job but i got a significant paycut?
What if there was a major family issue and i had to step in and help out someone financially who was even worse off than me in my family?
what if there was a family issue that required taking several months of unpaid time off?
What if my child needed medical treatment that was not covered by insurance?
Are you to tell me how to prioritize situations like this vs paying a mortgage on a severely underwater property?
no, you arent. These decisions are up to the individuals to make. Not everyone is lucky enough to live in an area where values havent dropped substantially. Not every was able to put down 20% plus when they bought their home several years ago.
Who are you to suggest that anyone in any of the cases above should keep paying the mortgage regardless of any other life circumstances??
Im sorry but a mortgage is NOT a #1 priority and if it is your #1 priority, you are a fool
The bottom line is that any of those options are fucking stupid. Anyone who dips into their savings or 401k to make payments on an upside down home loan is a complete idiot and has no idea what they are doing. These mindless sheep are only hurting themselves in the long run as that real cash that they are essentially flushing down the toilet to make interest-heavy payments, reducing very little principle on a loan that is already upside down perpetuates their negative equity position.
Simple math shows that a 30% drop in value will take nearly a 50% INCREASE in value to recoup. how long do you think its going to take for values to regain 50% from where they are now? How much interest are these people going to pay on their upside down loan in the meantime? People need to look at those hard numbers in their own situation to truely see how strategic default is of huge benefit (provided your finances are otherwise sound, you do not have a need for credit in the short term)
and as far as making the choice to default, who exactly makes the determination what is and isnt an adequate reason/hardship for making that choice? You? the lender? some douche bag running his mouth on an internet forum? The government?
I didnt lose my job and have my finances secure and defaulted, ok im a bad person.
What if i didnt lose my job but i had some medical bills stack up?
What if i found out my wife was pregnant with twins and both my finances and current property will NOT support the growth in family short of default?
What if the home was found to have severe structural problems that would cost well beyond a persons means to fix all while the loan is severely upside down?
What if i did not lose my job but i got a significant paycut?
What if there was a major family issue and i had to step in and help out someone financially who was even worse off than me in my family?
what if there was a family issue that required taking several months of unpaid time off?
What if my child needed medical treatment that was not covered by insurance?
Are you to tell me how to prioritize situations like this vs paying a mortgage on a severely underwater property?
no, you arent. These decisions are up to the individuals to make. Not everyone is lucky enough to live in an area where values havent dropped substantially. Not every was able to put down 20% plus when they bought their home several years ago.
Who are you to suggest that anyone in any of the cases above should keep paying the mortgage regardless of any other life circumstances??
Im sorry but a mortgage is NOT a #1 priority and if it is your #1 priority, you are a fool
Even if you are still lucky enough to be able to afford your mortgage payment, is it really even worth it to keep paying????
Lets say your mortgage payment is 1500 per month and your rate is somewhere around 7%.
You could keep right on paying that payment every month and doing the right thing but at the end of the day what is that getting you??? NOTHING....
The value of your home is, at best, staying the same, and more that likely it is decreasing so you are in essence throwing your money down the toilet!
Now lets say you stop paying today. Given the nature of the economic situation, you can easily go 90 days before even facing the possibility of forclosure. So after 90 days, you now have an extra $4500 in cash in your pocket, and you are in a position to renegotiate your mortgage for a lower rate or possibly a lower pay-off balance depending on your lender.
What is the BAD part of this scenario?? Your credit goes sour for a few years?? big fuckin deal, 10% of the nation is now in forclosure or behind on their payments!!
simply STOPPING your mortgage payments even if you are capable of continuing to do so may be the smartest thing to do right now, it will give you a stockpile of cash and it will position you for a great negotiation in your favor with the bank so when you do begin to start paying the mortgage again, your balance could be 10s of thousands of dollars less OR your payment is 100's less per month based on interest rate reductions.
seems like a win-win to me!!!
at the very worst, you get forclosed on and have to give up your house....the vast majority of homeowners right now would LOVE to be able just to walk away scott-free from their home but are now upside down, so in this case, even foreclosure sounds like a blessing!!
please, if i am missing something other than the obvious ding on the credit score, enlighten me!!
Lets say your mortgage payment is 1500 per month and your rate is somewhere around 7%.
You could keep right on paying that payment every month and doing the right thing but at the end of the day what is that getting you??? NOTHING....
The value of your home is, at best, staying the same, and more that likely it is decreasing so you are in essence throwing your money down the toilet!
Now lets say you stop paying today. Given the nature of the economic situation, you can easily go 90 days before even facing the possibility of forclosure. So after 90 days, you now have an extra $4500 in cash in your pocket, and you are in a position to renegotiate your mortgage for a lower rate or possibly a lower pay-off balance depending on your lender.
What is the BAD part of this scenario?? Your credit goes sour for a few years?? big fuckin deal, 10% of the nation is now in forclosure or behind on their payments!!
simply STOPPING your mortgage payments even if you are capable of continuing to do so may be the smartest thing to do right now, it will give you a stockpile of cash and it will position you for a great negotiation in your favor with the bank so when you do begin to start paying the mortgage again, your balance could be 10s of thousands of dollars less OR your payment is 100's less per month based on interest rate reductions.
seems like a win-win to me!!!
at the very worst, you get forclosed on and have to give up your house....the vast majority of homeowners right now would LOVE to be able just to walk away scott-free from their home but are now upside down, so in this case, even foreclosure sounds like a blessing!!
please, if i am missing something other than the obvious ding on the credit score, enlighten me!!
02-19-2012, 10:35 AM
#192
Nope not at all, no bad karma here, none of those scenarios is a reflection of my situation however my point remains. All who choose to strategically default make that choice based on various personal issues that may not be so easy for outsiders and judgmental pricks like some in this thread to realize. There are other hardships that aren't as black and white as a simple job loss.
02-19-2012, 03:18 PM
#193
Everyone who defaults makes that choice...in fact VERY VERY few people truly cannot make the payments before defaulting. Even those with job loss and genuine hardship, most folks could rearrange some finances, dip into savings/401k, change lifestyles, etc, to keep up with payments.
The bottom line is that any of those options are fucking stupid. Anyone who dips into their savings or 401k to make payments on an upside down home loan is a complete idiot and has no idea what they are doing. These mindless sheep are only hurting themselves in the long run as that real cash that they are essentially flushing down the toilet to make interest-heavy payments, reducing very little principle on a loan that is already upside down perpetuates their negative equity position.
Simple math shows that a 30% drop in value will take nearly a 50% INCREASE in value to recoup. how long do you think its going to take for values to regain 50% from where they are now? How much interest are these people going to pay on their upside down loan in the meantime? People need to look at those hard numbers in their own situation to truely see how strategic default is of huge benefit (provided your finances are otherwise sound, you do not have a need for credit in the short term)
and as far as making the choice to default, who exactly makes the determination what is and isnt an adequate reason/hardship for making that choice? You? the lender? some douche bag running his mouth on an internet forum? The government?
I didnt lose my job and have my finances secure and defaulted, ok im a bad person.
What if i didnt lose my job but i had some medical bills stack up?
What if i found out my wife was pregnant with twins and both my finances and current property will NOT support the growth in family short of default?
What if the home was found to have severe structural problems that would cost well beyond a persons means to fix all while the loan is severely upside down?
What if i did not lose my job but i got a significant paycut?
What if there was a major family issue and i had to step in and help out someone financially who was even worse off than me in my family?
what if there was a family issue that required taking several months of unpaid time off?
What if my child needed medical treatment that was not covered by insurance?
Are you to tell me how to prioritize situations like this vs paying a mortgage on a severely underwater property?
no, you arent. These decisions are up to the individuals to make. Not everyone is lucky enough to live in an area where values havent dropped substantially. Not every was able to put down 20% plus when they bought their home several years ago.
Who are you to suggest that anyone in any of the cases above should keep paying the mortgage regardless of any other life circumstances??
Im sorry but a mortgage is NOT a #1 priority and if it is your #1 priority, you are a fool
The bottom line is that any of those options are fucking stupid. Anyone who dips into their savings or 401k to make payments on an upside down home loan is a complete idiot and has no idea what they are doing. These mindless sheep are only hurting themselves in the long run as that real cash that they are essentially flushing down the toilet to make interest-heavy payments, reducing very little principle on a loan that is already upside down perpetuates their negative equity position.
Simple math shows that a 30% drop in value will take nearly a 50% INCREASE in value to recoup. how long do you think its going to take for values to regain 50% from where they are now? How much interest are these people going to pay on their upside down loan in the meantime? People need to look at those hard numbers in their own situation to truely see how strategic default is of huge benefit (provided your finances are otherwise sound, you do not have a need for credit in the short term)
and as far as making the choice to default, who exactly makes the determination what is and isnt an adequate reason/hardship for making that choice? You? the lender? some douche bag running his mouth on an internet forum? The government?
I didnt lose my job and have my finances secure and defaulted, ok im a bad person.
What if i didnt lose my job but i had some medical bills stack up?
What if i found out my wife was pregnant with twins and both my finances and current property will NOT support the growth in family short of default?
What if the home was found to have severe structural problems that would cost well beyond a persons means to fix all while the loan is severely upside down?
What if i did not lose my job but i got a significant paycut?
What if there was a major family issue and i had to step in and help out someone financially who was even worse off than me in my family?
what if there was a family issue that required taking several months of unpaid time off?
What if my child needed medical treatment that was not covered by insurance?
Are you to tell me how to prioritize situations like this vs paying a mortgage on a severely underwater property?
no, you arent. These decisions are up to the individuals to make. Not everyone is lucky enough to live in an area where values havent dropped substantially. Not every was able to put down 20% plus when they bought their home several years ago.
Who are you to suggest that anyone in any of the cases above should keep paying the mortgage regardless of any other life circumstances??
Im sorry but a mortgage is NOT a #1 priority and if it is your #1 priority, you are a fool
How about actually paying off the mortgage instead of defaulting and then you wouldn't have to worry about a mortgage payment?
02-19-2012, 11:38 PM
#195
Drifting
Nope not at all, no bad karma here, none of those scenarios is a reflection of my situation however my point remains. All who choose to strategically default make that choice based on various personal issues that may not be so easy for outsiders and judgmental pricks like some in this thread to realize. There are other hardships that aren't as black and white as a simple job loss.
Here were some nuggets that came to light:
1. your father went bankrupt during your informative years and he's doing fine now. This apparently registered with you greatly, since you feel very smug in your actions. As your Mom may have told you: two wrongs don't make a right.
2. you put no more than 10% down on your loan- it's hard to really know for certain because you never said explicitly- perhaps you did a cash-out refi after your 2005 purchase of this Chicago condo- I wouldn't be surprised. I do know you have a history
of putting little down because you were quite proud of your first purchase with just 2K down.
The ironic thing is almost ANY HOMEOWNER has been a loser because of the decline in home values. This is because almost all homeowners have lost equity in their homes the last 6 years. The only difference between you and me is how much equity we have compared to actual loan amount. In your case you had negative equity with little down so you reached a conclusion 4 years ago to stop paying. In my case I have a lot more equity than loan amount so I continue making payments.
It's how people deal with this loss that matters.
So when you refer to some of us as 'judgmental pricks', I take offense to that because it's people like yourself that are partially responsible for MY LOSS IN EQUITY which is a hell of a lot more than yours- especially since you had 104K forgiven.
I suspect you would be the type of person that would accidentally back into a parked car, take a look if anyone is looking, and take off if you thought you would get away with it. I would be the type of person that would man up and leave a note and risk an increase in insurance rates. Now, if you were the owner of the car with the dent, which driver would you be hoping for?
Some times you need to do things that are for the 'greater good' more than your own personal good. It was principles like this that made the U.S. into the country it is or was possibly. I suspect we're in trouble now days because it's clear not everybody shares those principles now.
02-20-2012, 08:34 AM
#196
Karma for the banks, maybe.
You guys are still pointing the finger at the wrong people.
Hey, if you're in a financial situation where being upside down doesn't affect your ability to pay the monthly payment etc, then more power to you. If you're in a mortgage that you signed for that worked for you, then great. But stop assuming everyone that isn't in that boat is a scumbag. Some people did truly get screwed by the situation and the banks and what they were selling us based on the information at the time. If you aren't one of them, you're not smart, you're lucky.
You guys are still pointing the finger at the wrong people.
Hey, if you're in a financial situation where being upside down doesn't affect your ability to pay the monthly payment etc, then more power to you. If you're in a mortgage that you signed for that worked for you, then great. But stop assuming everyone that isn't in that boat is a scumbag. Some people did truly get screwed by the situation and the banks and what they were selling us based on the information at the time. If you aren't one of them, you're not smart, you're lucky.
02-20-2012, 09:13 AM
#197
You can play the "what-if" game all day long. The bottom line is you made a promise to pay back the mortgage, AND you had the means to do it. You screwed over the mortgage company. It's people like you that drive the risk factors for refinancing through the roof. Thanks for that.
How about actually paying off the mortgage instead of defaulting and then you wouldn't have to worry about a mortgage payment?
How about actually paying off the mortgage instead of defaulting and then you wouldn't have to worry about a mortgage payment?
02-20-2012, 09:21 AM
#198
Yes you are good at telling tall tales that have nothing to do with your actual situation. It's funny how it took numerous posts in that earlier thread (now bumped so others can see this beauty) to even get to the details of your situation. You started out with a bunch of philosophical crap before divulging your own details.
Here were some nuggets that came to light:
1. your father went bankrupt during your informative years and he's doing fine now. This apparently registered with you greatly, since you feel very smug in your actions. As your Mom may have told you: two wrongs don't make a right.
2. you put no more than 10% down on your loan- it's hard to really know for certain because you never said explicitly- perhaps you did a cash-out refi after your 2005 purchase of this Chicago condo- I wouldn't be surprised. I do know you have a history
of putting little down because you were quite proud of your first purchase with just 2K down.
The ironic thing is almost ANY HOMEOWNER has been a loser because of the decline in home values. This is because almost all homeowners have lost equity in their homes the last 6 years. The only difference between you and me is how much equity we have compared to actual loan amount. In your case you had negative equity with little down so you reached a conclusion 4 years ago to stop paying. In my case I have a lot more equity than loan amount so I continue making payments.
It's how people deal with this loss that matters.
So when you refer to some of us as 'judgmental pricks', I take offense to that because it's people like yourself that are partially responsible for MY LOSS IN EQUITY which is a hell of a lot more than yours- especially since you had 104K forgiven.
I suspect you would be the type of person that would accidentally back into a parked car, take a look if anyone is looking, and take off if you thought you would get away with it. I would be the type of person that would man up and leave a note and risk an increase in insurance rates. Now, if you were the owner of the car with the dent, which driver would you be hoping for?
Some times you need to do things that are for the 'greater good' more than your own personal good. It was principles like this that made the U.S. into the country it is or was possibly. I suspect we're in trouble now days because it's clear not everybody shares those principles now.
Here were some nuggets that came to light:
1. your father went bankrupt during your informative years and he's doing fine now. This apparently registered with you greatly, since you feel very smug in your actions. As your Mom may have told you: two wrongs don't make a right.
2. you put no more than 10% down on your loan- it's hard to really know for certain because you never said explicitly- perhaps you did a cash-out refi after your 2005 purchase of this Chicago condo- I wouldn't be surprised. I do know you have a history
of putting little down because you were quite proud of your first purchase with just 2K down.
The ironic thing is almost ANY HOMEOWNER has been a loser because of the decline in home values. This is because almost all homeowners have lost equity in their homes the last 6 years. The only difference between you and me is how much equity we have compared to actual loan amount. In your case you had negative equity with little down so you reached a conclusion 4 years ago to stop paying. In my case I have a lot more equity than loan amount so I continue making payments.
It's how people deal with this loss that matters.
So when you refer to some of us as 'judgmental pricks', I take offense to that because it's people like yourself that are partially responsible for MY LOSS IN EQUITY which is a hell of a lot more than yours- especially since you had 104K forgiven.
I suspect you would be the type of person that would accidentally back into a parked car, take a look if anyone is looking, and take off if you thought you would get away with it. I would be the type of person that would man up and leave a note and risk an increase in insurance rates. Now, if you were the owner of the car with the dent, which driver would you be hoping for?
Some times you need to do things that are for the 'greater good' more than your own personal good. It was principles like this that made the U.S. into the country it is or was possibly. I suspect we're in trouble now days because it's clear not everybody shares those principles now.
I bought in 2007, not 2005 and I continued to pay until feb of 2010 while agonizing over my imploding finances, lack of options and complete entrapment by the condo...only then did I reluctantly pull that trigger to stop paying, it was not an easy decision...my credit score was over 800 and I had never missed a payment on anything in my life and still haven't, aside from that mortgage.
Your greater good was nothing short of personal and financial suicide for me...no thank you, I have no regrets and no second thoughts for how I got back control of my life. I was not willing to sacrifice my future for whatever greater good you are imagining in your head...take a look around once in awhile and show me where this imaginary greater good exists...your fellow man for the most part is in it for themselves, your government certainly doesn't care and has no reservations about further sinking this country into a hole...show me this greater good that I was supposed to sacrifice my future for
02-20-2012, 09:22 AM
#199
Yes you are good at telling tall tales that have nothing to do with your actual situation. It's funny how it took numerous posts in that earlier thread (now bumped so others can see this beauty) to even get to the details of your situation. You started out with a bunch of philosophical crap before divulging your own details.
Here were some nuggets that came to light:
1. your father went bankrupt during your informative years and he's doing fine now. This apparently registered with you greatly, since you feel very smug in your actions. As your Mom may have told you: two wrongs don't make a right.
2. you put no more than 10% down on your loan- it's hard to really know for certain because you never said explicitly- perhaps you did a cash-out refi after your 2005 purchase of this Chicago condo- I wouldn't be surprised. I do know you have a history
of putting little down because you were quite proud of your first purchase with just 2K down.
The ironic thing is almost ANY HOMEOWNER has been a loser because of the decline in home values. This is because almost all homeowners have lost equity in their homes the last 6 years. The only difference between you and me is how much equity we have compared to actual loan amount. In your case you had negative equity with little down so you reached a conclusion 4 years ago to stop paying. In my case I have a lot more equity than loan amount so I continue making payments.
It's how people deal with this loss that matters.
So when you refer to some of us as 'judgmental pricks', I take offense to that because it's people like yourself that are partially responsible for MY LOSS IN EQUITY which is a hell of a lot more than yours- especially since you had 104K forgiven.
I suspect you would be the type of person that would accidentally back into a parked car, take a look if anyone is looking, and take off if you thought you would get away with it. I would be the type of person that would man up and leave a note and risk an increase in insurance rates. Now, if you were the owner of the car with the dent, which driver would you be hoping for?
Some times you need to do things that are for the 'greater good' more than your own personal good. It was principles like this that made the U.S. into the country it is or was possibly. I suspect we're in trouble now days because it's clear not everybody shares those principles now.
Here were some nuggets that came to light:
1. your father went bankrupt during your informative years and he's doing fine now. This apparently registered with you greatly, since you feel very smug in your actions. As your Mom may have told you: two wrongs don't make a right.
2. you put no more than 10% down on your loan- it's hard to really know for certain because you never said explicitly- perhaps you did a cash-out refi after your 2005 purchase of this Chicago condo- I wouldn't be surprised. I do know you have a history
of putting little down because you were quite proud of your first purchase with just 2K down.
The ironic thing is almost ANY HOMEOWNER has been a loser because of the decline in home values. This is because almost all homeowners have lost equity in their homes the last 6 years. The only difference between you and me is how much equity we have compared to actual loan amount. In your case you had negative equity with little down so you reached a conclusion 4 years ago to stop paying. In my case I have a lot more equity than loan amount so I continue making payments.
It's how people deal with this loss that matters.
So when you refer to some of us as 'judgmental pricks', I take offense to that because it's people like yourself that are partially responsible for MY LOSS IN EQUITY which is a hell of a lot more than yours- especially since you had 104K forgiven.
I suspect you would be the type of person that would accidentally back into a parked car, take a look if anyone is looking, and take off if you thought you would get away with it. I would be the type of person that would man up and leave a note and risk an increase in insurance rates. Now, if you were the owner of the car with the dent, which driver would you be hoping for?
Some times you need to do things that are for the 'greater good' more than your own personal good. It was principles like this that made the U.S. into the country it is or was possibly. I suspect we're in trouble now days because it's clear not everybody shares those principles now.