Was it worth it to stop paying my mortgage? Absolutely 100% yes!
10-26-2011, 04:27 PM
#41
Suzuka Master
I wasn't debating the legality, but the morality. You can justify it all you want ... plain and simple, you specifically CHOSE not to honor your commitments. You gave your word to repay the debt.
Kids learn this saying in elementary school ...
"There are three R's ... Respect for self, Respect for others and Responsibility for all your actions."
Kids learn this saying in elementary school ...
"There are three R's ... Respect for self, Respect for others and Responsibility for all your actions."
What value are you adding to this thread (or any of the threads you participate in for that matter)? Your deep thinking goes about 2 millimeters deep. When you grow into your big boy pants and learn how to connect a few dots, we can have a serious discussion. My or Moogs financial status has nothing to do with this thread, its all about the OP.The OP thought he was making a good decision because he decided to buy instead of rent. He then had buyers remorse after the market tanked. Even though he could afford to pay, he chose not to. In doing so, he and other like him who chose to strategically default are causing major problems for the rest of society.
Here's a very simple explanation for you, the ramifications go a lot deeper and wider than this, but this is probably at your level of understanding:
Who Do You Hurt When You Walk Away?
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...walk-away.html
If you were only intending to live there 3-5 years, you never should have bought in the first place. Every financial planner I know says you should plan to live in a home for at least 7-8 years if you want to buy.
Take your scam elsewhere and crawl back into your hole.
Take your scam elsewhere and crawl back into your hole.
10-26-2011, 06:50 PM
#42
I wasn't debating the legality, but the morality. You can justify it all you want ... plain and simple, you specifically CHOSE not to honor your commitments. You gave your word to repay the debt.
Kids learn this saying in elementary school ...
"There are three R's ... Respect for self, Respect for others and Responsibility for all your actions."
Kids learn this saying in elementary school ...
"There are three R's ... Respect for self, Respect for others and Responsibility for all your actions."
Morality is a system of conduct or behavior based on the notion of good and bad or right and wrong. Contracts are based on a promise to perform some action in the future. There are no inherent moral obligations other than the actions and remedies outlined in the same contract. It is solely a business transaction.There are no inherent moral obligations other than the actions and remedies outlined in the same contract. It is solely a business transaction.
@ "QFT"
Last edited by whudini3000; 10-26-2011 at 07:04 PM.
10-27-2011, 07:37 PM
#43
Racer
Morality is a system of conduct or behavior based on the notion of good and bad or right and wrong. Contracts are based on a promise to perform some action in the future. There are no inherent moral obligations other than the actions and remedies outlined in the same contract. It is solely a business transaction.There are no inherent moral obligations other than the actions and remedies outlined in the same contract. It is solely a business transaction.
@ "QFT"You aren't worth a farthing more than your word ... QFT.
BTW, if you ever decide to roll with that explanation at a biker bar, please let me know ... I want to be there to watch.
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Dr. Colorado (10-27-2011)
10-27-2011, 07:55 PM
#44
So far I've wanted to "thank" almost all of TampaJim's posts that I've read in entirety.
I know this isn't Ramblings itself and thus an inappropriate forum but he is one of the best noobs we've gotten in Off-Topic in a while
I know this isn't Ramblings itself and thus an inappropriate forum but he is one of the best noobs we've gotten in Off-Topic in a while
10-27-2011, 08:26 PM
#45
Suzuka Master
Yeah, that would work out real well for our economy farthing. Go run your morality sh't past a banker or mortgage lender and you'll end up with a pair of jelly donuts on your face.
10-27-2011, 11:49 PM
#46
Contractual agreements are seen by individuals as close to, or as not even distinguishable from, promises made in every day life. Such promises are statements that most people think they have a moral obligation to honor. We are taught from childhood that our promises ought to be kept, and this view is reinforced throughout our lives. Thus, it is natural for us to identify contracts with the promises that we have learned to treat as having moral valence. We do not pause to consider that contracts are in fact different from promises made in social intercourse, and that breaking contracts, unlike breaking promises, results in the payment of damages. -S Shavell (Harvard Law School; National Bureau of Economic Research)
^Having sat in on a few business deals, contracts are treated like the piece of paper and the text in which they exist. Nothing more and Nothing less. Believing you have a moral obligation to fulfill a contract is a sign of a sucker, pun intended. If you wish to treat all contract's like your marriage, then that's your prerogative. Better yet, sit down with your local banker tomorrow and shame them for being soooooo immoral for multiple contract breaches, you don't give
about.
You aren't worth a farthing more than your word ... QFT.
I can't help if he endorses things beyond his comprehension.
BTW, if you ever decide to roll with that explanation at a biker bar, please let me know ... I want to be there to watch.
10-28-2011, 12:20 AM
#47
LMAO TJ. Rep points to you. "Farthing" probably hasn't made a mortgage payment in his life. Maybe he's still slumming at home with his parents. So anybody with a car loan, business loan, sh't any type of loan can just say f'ck the contract, I can't make payments anymore or even worse I still can make payments but I choose not too because I'm the dumbass that was in over my head in the first place,
Yeah, that would work out real well for our economy farthing. Go run your morality sh't past a banker or mortgage lender and you'll end up with a pair of jelly donuts on your face.
Yeah, that would work out real well for our economy farthing. Go run your morality sh't past a banker or mortgage lender and you'll end up with a pair of jelly donuts on your face.
Secondly: People fulfill their contract's in most cases as a guide to ownership. People don't morally pay their car note,mortgage, and etc. with the fear of visiting Hades.
Yeah, that would work out real well for our economy farthing. Go run your morality sh't past a banker or mortgage lender and you'll end up with a pair of jelly donuts on your face.
10-28-2011, 06:23 AM
#48
Racer
Contractual agreements are seen by individuals as close to, or as not even distinguishable from, promises made in every day life. Such promises are statements that most people think they have a moral obligation to honor. We are taught from childhood that our promises ought to be kept, and this view is reinforced throughout our lives. Thus, it is natural for us to identify contracts with the promises that we have learned to treat as having moral valence. We do not pause to consider that contracts are in fact different from promises made in social intercourse, and that breaking contracts, unlike breaking promises, results in the payment of damages. -S Shavell (Harvard Law School; National Bureau of Economic Research)
^Having sat in on a few business deals, contracts are treated like the piece of paper and the text in which they exist. Nothing more and Nothing less. Believing you have a moral obligation to fulfill a contract is a sign of a sucker, pun intended. If you wish to treat all contract's like your marriage, then that's your prerogative. Better yet, sit down with your local banker tomorrow and shame them for being soooooo immoral for multiple contract breaches, you don't give about.
^Having sat in on a few business deals, contracts are treated like the piece of paper and the text in which they exist. Nothing more and Nothing less. Believing you have a moral obligation to fulfill a contract is a sign of a sucker, pun intended. If you wish to treat all contract's like your marriage, then that's your prerogative. Better yet, sit down with your local banker tomorrow and shame them for being soooooo immoral for multiple contract breaches, you don't give
about.My educational background is in business, economics and communications. Like everyone else in school, I sat through a few courses in business law. At NO time, was it ever explained to me that contracts were meant to be broken ... actually, it was just the opposite.
It isn't a "sucker bet" to keep your commitments, it is the mark of a honorable person.
You seem to have missed out on the fact that the OP made a deliberate choice to WALK away from his mortgage AND, in doing so, he left the rest of us to pay his bills WHILE he still had cash in his own pocket AND with no intention to ever repay anyone for the losses incurred.
FYI, I actually DO pay my debts and obligations as if there is a "fear of visiting Hades". What moral man wouldn't?
10-28-2011, 08:17 AM
#50
Morality is a system of conduct or behavior based on the notion of good and bad or right and wrong. Contracts are based on a promise to perform some action in the future. There are no inherent moral obligations other than the actions and remedies outlined in the same contract. It is solely a business transaction.There are no inherent moral obligations other than the actions and remedies outlined in the same contract. It is solely a business transaction.
@ "QFT"
10-28-2011, 08:23 AM
#51
You quoted an attorney on contractual obligations! What did you expect? They would be out of a job if people actually honored their commitments.
It isn't a "sucker bet" to keep your commitments, it is the mark of a honorable person.
FYI, I actually DO pay my debts and obligations as if there is a "fear of visiting Hades". What moral man wouldn't?
It isn't a "sucker bet" to keep your commitments, it is the mark of a honorable person.
FYI, I actually DO pay my debts and obligations as if there is a "fear of visiting Hades". What moral man wouldn't?
My educational background is in business, economics and communications. Like everyone else in school, I sat through a few courses in business law. .
At NO time, was it ever explained to me that contracts were meant to be broken ... actually, it was just the opposite
You seem to have missed out on the fact that the OP made a deliberate choice to WALK away from his mortgage AND, in doing so, he left the rest of us to pay his bills WHILE he still had cash in his own pocket AND with no intention to ever repay anyone for the losses incurred.
Last edited by whudini3000; 10-28-2011 at 08:26 AM.
11-11-2011, 02:01 AM
#53
They you should know as well as I do the difference between a contract and a promise. Contracts are incomplete, giving those involved the right to opt-out and pay damages as a result.
Contracts can and may be broken to protect the assets of an company or place of business. This was taught to me, why wasn't it taught to you? This may also follow for individuals. Why one one continue to pay into a contract that's continues to bolt them into the wall? If you do, the jokes on you. Cut your losses and move on.
This is a shade of grey. The op did would he thought was best for his situation and very few on the board knows the entirety. Would you continue to pay on a mortgage in a neighborhood where police no longer patrol in a neighbor that was once fabulous. Crime rate increases? I wouldn't, as family and personal safety comes first. Some across the nation are making the decisions in present day with the following theme. Only a buffoon would continue to pay to stay in area as such. It seems many wish to crawl in the op's ass over his ordeal, yet the same critics lick the boots and sit on their hands when Wall Street participates in similar matters.
Contracts can and may be broken to protect the assets of an company or place of business. This was taught to me, why wasn't it taught to you? This may also follow for individuals. Why one one continue to pay into a contract that's continues to bolt them into the wall? If you do, the jokes on you. Cut your losses and move on.
This is a shade of grey. The op did would he thought was best for his situation and very few on the board knows the entirety. Would you continue to pay on a mortgage in a neighborhood where police no longer patrol in a neighbor that was once fabulous. Crime rate increases? I wouldn't, as family and personal safety comes first. Some across the nation are making the decisions in present day with the following theme. Only a buffoon would continue to pay to stay in area as such. It seems many wish to crawl in the op's ass over his ordeal, yet the same critics lick the boots and sit on their hands when Wall Street participates in similar matters.
11-11-2011, 08:06 PM
#55
05/5AT/Navi/ABP/Quartz
Not taking sides but talk to Donald Trump and most builders who set up LLP's just so they can walk away if the plan goes south. I'm just saying read some contracts. Just about any product you buy, the retailer and the manufacturer try to limit their liability and we accept it.
Again, not saying this is doing the right thing.
Again, not saying this is doing the right thing.
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whudini3000 (11-11-2011)
11-11-2011, 09:27 PM
#56
11-12-2011, 10:33 PM
#57
If you want to walk away from your mortgage, fine. However, why gloat over it? You made a bad financial mistake, and decided to dump the responsibility on others (even if some deserve it). At least if you do that, bow your head, and back away from the room, so to speak; no need to say how great the decision was.
11-14-2011, 06:20 PM
#59
I feel the need...
If you want to walk away from your mortgage, fine. However, why gloat over it? You made a bad financial mistake, and decided to dump the responsibility on others (even if some deserve it). At least if you do that, bow your head, and back away from the room, so to speak; no need to say how great the decision was.
Listen, life is sometimes unfair, it really is. Sometimes you just make a dumb (non-malicious) mistake, but you just suck it up and do the best you can and move on.
Don't try and convince us that taking a shit on our face is your pleasure and we should do it to our neighbors too.
12-18-2011, 09:39 AM
#60
Just another update, the dust has settled, my credit score is already back up over 700 now that the 2 mortgages have been settled and reported to the credit agencies as "debt settled in full for less than amount owed". My income for 2011 will reflect the debt forgiveness as income as a result of the lenders issuing 1099 however as previously indicated, based on current tax laws, it is non-taxable. I finally have my life back and have regained control of my financial picture and future. Anyone on the fence about strategic default feel free to pm me. Happy holidays all! This is the most joyous holiday I could ask for!
12-19-2011, 10:56 PM
#61
Drifting
^ Bubba- I'm happy that you're happy with yourself and that your credit is improving. My hope is that if somebody should ever owe you money in the future that you have the same 'understanding' as the bank had in your issues. I believe the term is called 'pay it forward'.
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baboya96 (12-24-2011)
01-05-2012, 08:25 AM
#62
Drifting
My one buddy is basically doing this. Not because he made a bad purchase, but because his house(ranch) was destroyed due to a flash flood that completely filled up his basement. There was so much damage, yet the code inspector deemed it livable. So his choices were to continue paying the mortgage but not living there and not being able to get a loan to repair it and hope it doesn't happen again, or to give it back to the bank.
01-05-2012, 10:03 PM
#63
Drifting
^rock- something doesn't add up in your buddy's story. If he has insurance, insurance should pay for repairs less a deductible. Sounds like the buddy has one or both of the
following situations:
1. under-insured so that damage exceeds what policy will pay- not likely if he refi'd in the last 5 years
2. a LARGE deductible and figured he was already underwater with home value and it wasn't worth paying the deductible to get the house fixed.
I guess this is similar, but equally different since the initial cause was induced by an unpredictable event. Quite likely he was under-insured in some way or another.
Similar things would happen if a big earthquake hit CA- not many people have earthquake insurance and the deductible is huge so it would be easy to be under water when factoring the repair and/or deductible costs.
I read that there is an anticipated new wave of short sales that could happen this an next year so we're not out of the woods yet in this regard.
following situations:
1. under-insured so that damage exceeds what policy will pay- not likely if he refi'd in the last 5 years
2. a LARGE deductible and figured he was already underwater with home value and it wasn't worth paying the deductible to get the house fixed.
I guess this is similar, but equally different since the initial cause was induced by an unpredictable event. Quite likely he was under-insured in some way or another.
Similar things would happen if a big earthquake hit CA- not many people have earthquake insurance and the deductible is huge so it would be easy to be under water when factoring the repair and/or deductible costs.
I read that there is an anticipated new wave of short sales that could happen this an next year so we're not out of the woods yet in this regard.
02-06-2012, 08:57 PM
#65
I feel the need...
Office and home rent will keep rising and rising
Hi A$$hole~ 
http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_new...ing-and-rising
Paying rent is getting more painful for renters across the country in the face of rising demand and tight supply.
Both the commercial and residential real estate markets are seeing increases, and more are expected in the months and years to come.
Office construction starts were at the lowest level since 1960, the oldest data available from McGraw-Hill Construction; and that means there will be less space available for companies looking to rent or expand their operations.
It’s also bad timing for people who have been spooked by, or pushed out of, the residential housing market and have decided to rent instead of buy. Home ownership in the United States is at historic lows, but at the same time rental prices are on the rise......
Both the commercial and residential real estate markets are seeing increases, and more are expected in the months and years to come.
Office construction starts were at the lowest level since 1960, the oldest data available from McGraw-Hill Construction; and that means there will be less space available for companies looking to rent or expand their operations.
It’s also bad timing for people who have been spooked by, or pushed out of, the residential housing market and have decided to rent instead of buy. Home ownership in the United States is at historic lows, but at the same time rental prices are on the rise......
02-06-2012, 10:53 PM
#66
Drifting
Just another update, the dust has settled, my credit score is already back up over 700 now that the 2 mortgages have been settled and reported to the credit agencies as "debt settled in full for less than amount owed". My income for 2011 will reflect the debt forgiveness as income as a result of the lenders issuing 1099 however as previously indicated, based on current tax laws, it is non-taxable. I finally have my life back and have regained control of my financial picture and future. Anyone on the fence about strategic default feel free to pm me. Happy holidays all! This is the most joyous holiday I could ask for!
I echo pretty much everyone else in this thread - and you think how you got off so great and how great it was for you - until the next time you go buy a house - 10 or even 20 years from now. Watch the banks ask for 50% down. No more of this 2 mortgage BS. And then enjoy paying double digit interest rate on the other 50%.
Meanwhile - I have a 30yr @ 4% and in 20 years will have my house paid off - you'll still be renting... Who will be better off? Who knows - we'll find out in 20 years.
02-07-2012, 10:57 AM
#67
I am almost $60K upside down on my mortgage. $60K! Guess what? Instead of filing for bankruptcy or asking the bank to foreclose on my house, guess what I'm doing. Putting extra on the mortgage to pay it off faster. Especially seeing that I can't refinance my 6.625% interest rate because banks don't want to eat that loss.
When my wife starts making Nurse Practitioner salary in 2013, I'm doubling my mortgage payment to pay it off by the time I'm 40 years old in December 2019.
How many people can say they own their house at 40?
When my wife starts making Nurse Practitioner salary in 2013, I'm doubling my mortgage payment to pay it off by the time I'm 40 years old in December 2019.
How many people can say they own their house at 40?
02-07-2012, 12:58 PM
#68
Drifting
I am almost $60K upside down on my mortgage. $60K! Guess what? Instead of filing for bankruptcy or asking the bank to foreclose on my house, guess what I'm doing. Putting extra on the mortgage to pay it off faster. Especially seeing that I can't refinance my 6.625% interest rate because banks don't want to eat that loss.
When my wife starts making Nurse Practitioner salary in 2013, I'm doubling my mortgage payment to pay it off by the time I'm 40 years old in December 2019.
How many people can say they own their house at 40?
When my wife starts making Nurse Practitioner salary in 2013, I'm doubling my mortgage payment to pay it off by the time I'm 40 years old in December 2019.
How many people can say they own their house at 40?
I contemplated moving my 30yr to a 15yr - but I'd rather have a low payment where I can make more/higher payments on my own terms. Based on that I'll have my house paid off by the time I'm 45.
But I also spent 4 years looking for a place - seeing the market tank, waiting, saving for a larger down payment, waiting more - then pulling the trigger - where I'm at, the market has already bottomed and is turning around. YMMV
02-08-2012, 08:29 PM
#69
02-08-2012, 08:35 PM
#70
2 mortgages? Yea - so how was that 20% down payment...
I echo pretty much everyone else in this thread - and you think how you got off so great and how great it was for you - until the next time you go buy a house - 10 or even 20 years from now. Watch the banks ask for 50% down. No more of this 2 mortgage BS. And then enjoy paying double digit interest rate on the other 50%.
Meanwhile - I have a 30yr @ 4% and in 20 years will have my house paid off - you'll still be renting... Who will be better off? Who knows - we'll find out in 20 years.
I echo pretty much everyone else in this thread - and you think how you got off so great and how great it was for you - until the next time you go buy a house - 10 or even 20 years from now. Watch the banks ask for 50% down. No more of this 2 mortgage BS. And then enjoy paying double digit interest rate on the other 50%.
Meanwhile - I have a 30yr @ 4% and in 20 years will have my house paid off - you'll still be renting... Who will be better off? Who knows - we'll find out in 20 years.
02-09-2012, 07:02 PM
#71
I feel the need...
Go ahead, keep throwing good money after bad, hoping your home value will stabilize. I'll wait it out another few years while prices and interest rates go nowhere but down further....THEN and only then, jump back into the market, buy a house for pennies on the dollar and with the lowest rate possible
Fact: Rents are rising nationwide according to Gov't statistics.
Fact: Strategic defaults are exacerbating the foreclosure crisis.
Fact: Both short term interest rates and long term bond yields are at or near all time lows.
Fact: There will be millions more Americans 20 years from now. The Census Bureau's Population Projections forecast the population by 2030 to be 363,584,435
Fact: Those additional 60 million people will not all live in OWS encampments, live off the grid in abandoned military bases or live with their parents forever.
Fact: Just like car sales running below the scrap rate circa 2008, new home construction is now running below replacement rate.
Now that we've established some baseline facts, lets examine your misguided opinions. Are you really willing to bet that inflation won't erode your purchasing power and keep your rent low for the next decade? Are you really willing to bet that 10yr treasury will stay at sub 2% until you perfectly time your jump back into home ownership? Are you really willing to bet that another 60 million Americans won't have an impact on rents and home prices?
When things look the shittiest is historically the best time to acquire the out of favor asset class.
Lets be clear, you bought the top, puked the bottom and now are crowing because you gamed the system and now want to share with others how to perpetrate more fraud at the expense of US taxpayers. I despise everything you stand for.
Oh, and you don't need to worry about me "throwing more good money after bad". I'm a big boy, live up to my agreements and have a moral compass the guides me to try and do the right thing. My mortgage payment is lower than the cost of renting an equivalent home, so we'll be okay in the long run. I like my neighbors and prefer to be a part of the solution versus being a part of the problem.
02-09-2012, 07:16 PM
#72
Three Wheelin'
Renting or owning is more of a lifestyle choice than a financial one. There are hidden costs like maintenance and renovations that quickly adds up when you are a home owner. When you rent property maintenance and upkeep are not your responsibility. As a renter, one can technically argue that you have more opportunities to pursue your endeavors such that you don't have a home to tie you down. A house is not a liquid asset like cash, stocks, bonds, and precious metals. But you can argue that you won't lose the principle in your house in the long run either. Regardless of choice, bottom line is to live within your means.
02-10-2012, 10:27 AM
#73
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts ~ Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Fact: Rents are rising nationwide according to Gov't statistics.
Fact: Strategic defaults are exacerbating the foreclosure crisis.
Fact: Both short term interest rates and long term bond yields are at or near all time lows.
Fact: There will be millions more Americans 20 years from now. The Census Bureau's Population Projections forecast the population by 2030 to be 363,584,435
Fact: Those additional 60 million people will not all live in OWS encampments, live off the grid in abandoned military bases or live with their parents forever.
Fact: Just like car sales running below the scrap rate circa 2008, new home construction is now running below replacement rate.
Now that we've established some baseline facts, lets examine your misguided opinions. Are you really willing to bet that inflation won't erode your purchasing power and keep your rent low for the next decade? Are you really willing to bet that 10yr treasury will stay at sub 2% until you perfectly time your jump back into home ownership? Are you really willing to bet that another 60 million Americans won't have an impact on rents and home prices?
When things look the shittiest is historically the best time to acquire the out of favor asset class.
Lets be clear, you bought the top, puked the bottom and now are crowing because you gamed the system and now want to share with others how to perpetrate more fraud at the expense of US taxpayers. I despise everything you stand for.
Oh, and you don't need to worry about me "throwing more good money after bad". I'm a big boy, live up to my agreements and have a moral compass the guides me to try and do the right thing. My mortgage payment is lower than the cost of renting an equivalent home, so we'll be okay in the long run. I like my neighbors and prefer to be a part of the solution versus being a part of the problem.
Fact: Rents are rising nationwide according to Gov't statistics.
Fact: Strategic defaults are exacerbating the foreclosure crisis.
Fact: Both short term interest rates and long term bond yields are at or near all time lows.
Fact: There will be millions more Americans 20 years from now. The Census Bureau's Population Projections forecast the population by 2030 to be 363,584,435
Fact: Those additional 60 million people will not all live in OWS encampments, live off the grid in abandoned military bases or live with their parents forever.
Fact: Just like car sales running below the scrap rate circa 2008, new home construction is now running below replacement rate.
Now that we've established some baseline facts, lets examine your misguided opinions. Are you really willing to bet that inflation won't erode your purchasing power and keep your rent low for the next decade? Are you really willing to bet that 10yr treasury will stay at sub 2% until you perfectly time your jump back into home ownership? Are you really willing to bet that another 60 million Americans won't have an impact on rents and home prices?
When things look the shittiest is historically the best time to acquire the out of favor asset class.
Lets be clear, you bought the top, puked the bottom and now are crowing because you gamed the system and now want to share with others how to perpetrate more fraud at the expense of US taxpayers. I despise everything you stand for.
Oh, and you don't need to worry about me "throwing more good money after bad". I'm a big boy, live up to my agreements and have a moral compass the guides me to try and do the right thing. My mortgage payment is lower than the cost of renting an equivalent home, so we'll be okay in the long run. I like my neighbors and prefer to be a part of the solution versus being a part of the problem.
I completely agree with every one of your facts. However you, nor anyone else has a crystal ball that will tell us how long its going to take for any real, sustained recovery to occur. I have no doubt a recovery will happen but what is happening now is not recovery, its an anchor being dragged across the bottom of the sea with an occasional dip and occasional rise but nothing consistent and nothing trending upward no matter how you slice it. (again, certain markets are doing better than others but overall, no tangible recovery in domestic real estate has started).
I am not worried at all about inflation eroding my purchasing power. In all honesty, I see myself sitting on the sideline in a rental for 5 years max. But I pay VERY close attention to what the market is doing and if (miraculously) some rapid strong recovery of prices and increase in interest rates begins to occur, i may accelerate the 5 year plan but based on all the data available, in 5 years, we are not going to see housing prices escalate and we are not going to see interest rates skyrocket.
I take offense and take issue with your usage of the word "fraud". I implore you, please, tell me where, in any laws in this country or in my jurisdiction (Cook County, IL) did I break a law or commit "fraud" in any sense of the word. And please also tell me, based on the language of any mortgage contract, how did I commit fraud? My lenders were satisfied with the results and have waived all debt or right to pursue deficency. I, in turn, made a sizeable cash contribution at closing and relinquished the property in good, clean condition. If you want to throw around accusations and terms like "fraud", at least know what you are talking about. You can attach your morals to this all you want but that is your choice and I (along with millions of others) do not concur. You fall in with the sheep and be a "good boy". I respect your choice but anyone with a calculator and an honest assessment of your situation could easily show you how much money you are losing. Some are worse off than others, if you actually have positive equity (or have convinced yourself that you do) then good for you) but for those who have no equity, or worse, SUBSTANTIAL negative equity, there is no better choice and no better financial solution than strategic default, end of story.
02-10-2012, 10:40 AM
#74
Renting or owning is more of a lifestyle choice than a financial one. There are hidden costs like maintenance and renovations that quickly adds up when you are a home owner. When you rent property maintenance and upkeep are not your responsibility. As a renter, one can technically argue that you have more opportunities to pursue your endeavors such that you don't have a home to tie you down. A house is not a liquid asset like cash, stocks, bonds, and precious metals. But you can argue that you won't lose the principle in your house in the long run either. Regardless of choice, bottom line is to live within your means.
My rent is about 10% LESS than my housing payment including property taxes was. My exposure to maintenance and upkeep is a big fat 0. The size of my rental unit is 200% the square footage and an additional parking spot. Not to mention the upgrade in overall quality of construction, age of materials and condition of the rental unit compared to the condo I got out of via strategic default. I am more than happy with those numbers, my rent could raise 25% and I'd still be far better off as a renter.
One thing i will add to your point is a comment regarding your statement "But you can argue that you won't lose the principle in your house in the long run either"
Well, that USED to be true but the last 5 years have proven that its not true. You now can lose the principle, and quite dramatically i might add. There is no guarantee that your principle is safe and this has become a scorge on our country and a painful reality. I dont care if you put down 50%, on your home, own it outright, bought with 0% down and some interest-only mortgage, EVERYONE has been subject to dropping values. I just feel bad mostly for those who actually did put skin in the game at the wrong time. Those who put down substantial sums on their property purchases in 2005-2008...those people lost real money and feel the burn even more than I ever did. Those people are the ones gritting their teeth and trying to put on a good face or tie their situation to morals or convince themselves they dont care about the value and really want to stay and dont care to upgrade to a newer better home or dont mind the lack of ability to refinance because they have lost all (or most) of their equity. I feel bad for those people. Its clear there are several of those people who post in this thread.
02-10-2012, 10:43 AM
#75
Three Wheelin'
Not to add fuel to the fire... Rich folks and Corporations look at every financial situation as a business transition. When the transaction goes south, they walk... Normal folks look at every financial situation with morals and emotional attachment. Hence, the rich tend to stay rich while the rest of us are left to do the "right" thing. That "right" thing is subjective as hell...
Last edited by benben01; 02-10-2012 at 10:46 AM.
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02-10-2012, 10:48 AM
#76
Not add fuel to the fire... Rich folks and Corporations look at every financial situation as a business transition. Normal folks look at every financial situation with morals and emotional attachment. Hence, the rich tend to stay rich while the rest of us are left to do the "right" thing. That "right" thing is subjective as hell...
Last edited by BubbaMarkTL; 02-10-2012 at 10:55 AM. Reason: spelling error
02-10-2012, 12:06 PM
#78
Not to add fuel to the fire... Rich folks and Corporations look at every financial situation as a business transition. When the transaction goes south, they walk... Normal folks look at every financial situation with morals and emotional attachment. Hence, the rich tend to stay rich while the rest of us are left to do the "right" thing. That "right" thing is subjective as hell...
, but if a middle class individual participates, he's the scum of the earth...
Last edited by whudini3000; 02-10-2012 at 12:15 PM.
02-10-2012, 01:11 PM
#79
Drifting
^rock- something doesn't add up in your buddy's story. If he has insurance, insurance should pay for repairs less a deductible. Sounds like the buddy has one or both of the
following situations:
1. under-insured so that damage exceeds what policy will pay- not likely if he refi'd in the last 5 years
2. a LARGE deductible and figured he was already underwater with home value and it wasn't worth paying the deductible to get the house fixed.
I guess this is similar, but equally different since the initial cause was induced by an unpredictable event. Quite likely he was under-insured in some way or another.
Similar things would happen if a big earthquake hit CA- not many people have earthquake insurance and the deductible is huge so it would be easy to be under water when factoring the repair and/or deductible costs.
I read that there is an anticipated new wave of short sales that could happen this an next year so we're not out of the woods yet in this regard.
following situations:
1. under-insured so that damage exceeds what policy will pay- not likely if he refi'd in the last 5 years
2. a LARGE deductible and figured he was already underwater with home value and it wasn't worth paying the deductible to get the house fixed.
I guess this is similar, but equally different since the initial cause was induced by an unpredictable event. Quite likely he was under-insured in some way or another.
Similar things would happen if a big earthquake hit CA- not many people have earthquake insurance and the deductible is huge so it would be easy to be under water when factoring the repair and/or deductible costs.
I read that there is an anticipated new wave of short sales that could happen this an next year so we're not out of the woods yet in this regard.
02-10-2012, 01:20 PM
#80
Senior Moderator
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Better Neighborhood, Arizona
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Not to add fuel to the fire... Rich folks and Corporations look at every financial situation as a business transition. When the transaction goes south, they walk... Normal folks look at every financial situation with morals and emotional attachment. Hence, the rich tend to stay rich while the rest of us are left to do the "right" thing. That "right" thing is subjective as hell...
The key point of this debate is that every party should keep their promises, regardless of wealth or position. Our economy is in a depression mainly because of broken promises and people not being held accountable.
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gatrhumpy (02-17-2012)