mc222

I will be refinancing the 2nd mortgage on my home in order to pay off all of my CC debt...Now realisticly my house will appraise ~170k, but in order to get the loan rate I want, it needs to appraise at 180k.

My best friend works in the loan division at the bank and he hooked me up. Basically the 15yr second mortgage will only go up $85 bucks a month and I wont have any more CC debt!

So my question to anyone who has had an appraisal done....What are my chances of smooth talking this guy into appraising my house a tad bit higher? Should I give him the old 100 hand shake?

Scrib

bad idea

mfkitson

If you want a good appraisal, be nice, but keep your wallet in your pocket....

clorich

doopstr

Why does the value of your house effect the mortgage rate? I could understand that it would effect the amount of money they are willing to give you, but the rate?

I hope you plan on chopping up your CCs so this doesn't happen again.

Shawn S

Usually the refinance company uses appraisers who go high on the numbers anyway.
They have a vested interest in getting the numbers to where they will work.
There have been problems in my area where people are actually going TOO HIGH on the appraisals.
After a second loan is written, the home ends up being financed for 120-130% of its true value.

soopa

Like shawn said, if you're using the mortgage companies appraiser... you're going to have no problem getting that extra 10k on the house.

Now, where should I move this? Money & Investing... or... Crime & Punishment?

mc222

I will keep my money in my pocket most likely...bribery would be the least of my criminal worries

DJDZ

I don't think the appraiser is willing to risk his job and reputation for $100. At least if he is honest. Let the mortgage company deal with that issue. If they hired the appriser for your home, then it shouldn't be a problem getting the value to an additional $10K.

GoDucksCLSPride

2 things:
1.) Don't bother, save your money. Any mortgage professional with half a brain has a designated appraiser they call on for all their deals. Part of that relationship is the mortgage professional keeps the appraiser happy by sending him all his deals - meanwhile the appraiser keeps the mortgage professional happy by always pulling value and getting the appraisal done quickly. My appraiser always pulls the value I request or he doesnt complete appraisal and doesnt charge me. It's an agreement we have and it works great. Your mortgage person should have a go to person as well.

2.) Underwriters have computational systems that call values into question if they seem rediculous. An appraiser will not put his licsense on the line and have his appraisal called out by this system. The best he can do is not appraise conservative. However, dont expect him to pull value that isnt there. It will get flagged in underwriting and kicked out anyway.


The rate will be effected by "loan to value" vs "combined loan to value."

Using strait numbers, if you have an $85,000 loan and a $100,000 house, a refinance of that loan will become an 80%/5% - or an 80% first mortgage and 5% second mortgage. The rate on the first will usually be higher because having a second mortgage throws the deal into non-conforming rates which are usually a tad higher than conforming.

Now if the house appraises for $110,000 and you have an $85,000 loan against it, a refi will be 77% loan to value - or a 77% first mortgage only. Thats a slam dunk conforming loan with conforming rates.

MR1

I am a long time appraiser and basically insulted by this thread but not surprised. This is why most of my business is not with mortgage brokers. I guess I'm not the 'go-to guy'.

The value is what it is within a usually narrow range. If a borrower or broker tries to bribe me I will shove their money down their throat and possibly turn them in. What you are talking is straight out fraud. I make very adequate money being honest and above board. I have lots of repeat business. My lenders know that every jackass that wants or needs to take out a loan is not qualified for one reason or another.

The fact that you may have overspent on cc is not a problem that I'm willing to sell my license for. In most instances where this has happened. After a refi, you just do it again; best wishes.

GoDucksCLSPride

What exactly are you insulted by? Refering back to my post, I said my appraiser ALWAYS pulls value OR he doesnt charge me for the appraisal. Simply stated, he will back off the property and give me a call telling me the value isnt there INSTEAD of completing it and billing me for a deal I cant close. Sounds pretty reasonable to me

This is the benefit he provides me for sending him nearly 30 deals a month between my collegues and I. I can see why you'd bitch about bribery but dont roll your eyes and call out mortgage lenders, they clearly arent the problem here

MR1

Sorry you need more details, my fault. My experience has been that those guys that send you 30 deals a month start to expect big favors from time to time. This might include a big stretch on a special deal now and then. Any decent appraiser can give you some indication of a general range for most properties assuming accurate data is available. Any one with a real estate license and an MLS membership and some basic skill can do almost the same thing in my state. All brokers are not bad just as all appraisers are not whores, I apoligize.

Now, after I receive an assignment and go to the residence, I get paid at least a trip fee. Sometimes the house is not as advertisied by the data or the borrower. I sell time and information and both have been used. Appraisers are not a party to the transaction the same way the mortgage lender is. The system was designed for us to be independent. We are to remain neutral as to the outcome which is at odds with your desires. Way to many people want a guaranteed outcome and think that is what they are paying for with the appraisal request. This was the tone that I received from some of the above post. I can't determind the outcome until I look at the property.

GoDucksCLSPride

I understand and agree completely. The reason I value my relationship with my appraiser so deeply is that I have VERY little access to any recent data enabling me to assess acurate value. My title company gives me access to a database that will show all comparable sales within the localize area but thats about it. When determining loan to values for a refinance, i usually take a mix between grossing up taxe assessed value to 115%-125% and average $ per sq. foot on all comparable sales I can find.

It's a shit for brains terribly unexact science but it is the best I have to give me a ballpark. From here I can at set a value to give me some $ parameters to set-up the loan. However, all this is just pissing into the wind if I am still gambling $400 with every appraisal in hope that my values were correct.

Knowing full well that my ability to find value is imperfect, my appraiser will leave the property and drop the appraisal free of charge if the value isnt there. This has only happened twice in our relationship though and I definitly cannot and will not take advantage of this. It's more just an understanding we have as mutual assets to each others business.

Anyway, i guess what I am getting at is we arent taking advantage of each other and im not asking him to pull value that isnt there. He just accepts that fact that I have limited ability to assess true value and he adjusts his business practice accordingly to keep us both happy.

MR1

Gottcha, we are about on the same page. The real message is to MC222, the post starter.

dallison

don't do it

mc222

I had to put my college tuition on my CC and haven't used it in two years...But I talked to the appraiser today and he had no prob getting the value out of my house.

I had a question and I posted it. Please don't quit your day job...you are a horrible forcaster, and you seem to make assumptions before knowing facts - If you have a question ask.

Doom878

I couldn't have said it better. Underwriters will nitpick bloated values and then the appraiser needs an add'l comparable so good luck. Not to mention the UW's will pull reports to see other recent sales in the area that are more like the subject and ask why the appraiser didn't use those.

moeronn

AFAIK, the loan to value in the above situation affects whether the borrow will be required to pay PMI, not conforming vs non-conforming rates. Though, there is also a rate difference based on LTV. Some places use 80% while others use 70%. The better (lower) the LTV, the better the rate.

MR1

I have my day job thanks.

1. Your personal situation has no bearing on the value.
2. You talked to the appraiser but did you offer a bribe?
3. As I stated, the value is there or it isn't, in your case I guess it was.
4. The fact that you had to ask the question indicates a basic misunderstanding on your part.

Glad you haven't touched the cc in two years, just means that so-far you are not typical. My profession takes enough flack do to misunderstanding, I feel a duty to defend an often misunderstand part of the housing business.

What licensed person would not have been insulted by an inquiry about accepting bribes?