Anyone short Bear Stearns (BSC) today?
#1
Anyone short Bear Stearns (BSC) today?
Wanted most of the day to play out to see where the big boys were taking this. Didnt see a big enough bounce so shorted at $32.40. Would like to buy to cover at $25 but we will see what happens this weekend and monday when they report
#2
so you're short bear right now over the weekend when god knows what kind of news can come out.... and they've got earnings, and the fed's got a meeting....
buckle up, could be a wild one.
buckle up, could be a wild one.
#3
Originally Posted by moonraker
so you're short bear right now over the weekend when god knows what kind of news can come out.... and they've got earnings, and the fed's got a meeting....
buckle up, could be a wild one.
buckle up, could be a wild one.
#4
#5
Also remember their valuation isnt based on earnings. That was then, not now. They are illiquid, have no liquidity, no one will do business with a company that is one notch above junk bonds now that they were downgraded to BBB. Nothing good to come IMO for bear stearns. No one will take counterparty risk with Bear. Confidence is shaken. This is not an earnings problem, its a liquidity crisis and that can not be underestimated. They can't function without a buyout, no one pays a premium when you can wait till chapter 11 and buy the assets without the liabilites.
#6
yea of course things don't trade on earnings or valuations right now, that's because its a bear market... that stuff got thrown out a long time ago. not disagreeing with you, they are a shit firm. they'll get bought for their clearinghouse or maybe they'll split things up asset wise.
but, i just don't see how it drops even more right this second with a few 'positive' items for financials coming next week. any kind of news can pop out of nowhere and this is a very news driven market right now. i just think you might have to hold on longer than a week but who knows
hopefully i'm wrong though so you can pick up some profits
but, i just don't see how it drops even more right this second with a few 'positive' items for financials coming next week. any kind of news can pop out of nowhere and this is a very news driven market right now. i just think you might have to hold on longer than a week but who knows
hopefully i'm wrong though so you can pick up some profits
#7
Team Owner
Coming into a short after the big drop is worse than buying into a company after a big rise IMO. With that said I'm not going to offer an opinion on if you made a bad choice or not but you need to watch out for the dead cat bounce. Stocks have a tendency to do the exact opposite of what the masses expect and right now the masses are looking for more downside. That's how the big guys make money off of the little guys.
Trending Topics
#8
Team Owner
More reason to be careful here JP Morgan Is Nearing Deal To Acquire Bear Stearns
#9
Looks like you might hit the jackpot on this one. We should find out in a few hours whether it will be acquired by JP or will it file for bankruptcy.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080316/jpmor...r_stearns.html
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080316/jpmor...r_stearns.html
#10
We have a winner. Great pick, Renegade!!
JP Morgan buys Bear Sterns for $2/share:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/jpmorgan_bear_stearns
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
JP Morgan buys Bear Sterns for $2/share:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/jpmorgan_bear_stearns
![Rave](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/trance.gif)
#11
Team Owner
Holy shit dude, just read the news, congrats!!! Got any more picks because apparently I suck at this. ![Chuckle](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/chuckle.gif)
I feel bad for all the peeps that just lost their 401k money.
![Chuckle](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/chuckle.gif)
I feel bad for all the peeps that just lost their 401k money.
![Sad](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/sad.gif)
Last edited by doopstr; 03-16-2008 at 06:44 PM.
#12
Hahaa! Huge winner for me! When fed comes in for aid, S&P cut to BBB, it was clear this company was done. Dead cat bounces on stocks after huge losses happen on stocks not insolvent!
BTW the big guys had puts at $5 strike. I'll cover tomorrow and celebrate
BTW the big guys had puts at $5 strike. I'll cover tomorrow and celebrate
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#13
Senior Moderator
I wonder if BS owns their building? That would be a huge steal for JPMC, who's own HQ is just across the street from BS.
#17
I feel the need...
Color From Bear
Originally Posted by Renegade
Hahaa! Huge winner for me! When fed comes in for aid, S&P cut to BBB, it was clear this company was done. Dead cat bounces on stocks after huge losses happen on stocks not insolvent!
BTW the big guys had puts at $5 strike. I'll cover tomorrow and celebrate![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
BTW the big guys had puts at $5 strike. I'll cover tomorrow and celebrate
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Bullshit](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/bs.gif)
And before you cheer too loudly, remember there are 14,000 employees which have had their life savings wiped out and are out of a job jackass.
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
Forwarded from my bberg message today:
Astronomers spot unusual luminous spots on Jupiter. The last
thing to get so lit up you could see it from 1MM miles away was
Brian Benson... at tonights party. We saw a huge seller of aged
inventory today. It turned out to be the manager of the Bear
Stearns Company Store. He sold everthing in the store for $2 and
just when the sale ended this 20 yr employee surprised the crowd
and pulled off his wig. Thats the only hair raising surprise
that this floor could handle right now. We have stopped trading
and have started to see JP Chase managers on the floor. Jamie
Diamond will address all the SMD's at 5. JP won't have spots for
all of us so if you know of any job...big or small...please make
me aware of it and i will put you in touch with them.
thing to get so lit up you could see it from 1MM miles away was
Brian Benson... at tonights party. We saw a huge seller of aged
inventory today. It turned out to be the manager of the Bear
Stearns Company Store. He sold everthing in the store for $2 and
just when the sale ended this 20 yr employee surprised the crowd
and pulled off his wig. Thats the only hair raising surprise
that this floor could handle right now. We have stopped trading
and have started to see JP Chase managers on the floor. Jamie
Diamond will address all the SMD's at 5. JP won't have spots for
all of us so if you know of any job...big or small...please make
me aware of it and i will put you in touch with them.
#18
Originally Posted by Fibonacci
So lemme get this straight, you went from penny stocks to shorting mega shares of BSC?
![Bullshit](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/bs.gif)
And before you cheer too loudly, remember there are 14,000 employees which have had their life savings wiped out and are out of a job jackass.
Forwarded from my bberg message today:
![Bullshit](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/bs.gif)
And before you cheer too loudly, remember there are 14,000 employees which have had their life savings wiped out and are out of a job jackass.
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
Forwarded from my bberg message today:
#19
I feel the need...
Originally Posted by Renegade
Why would I BS? I called the short at $32 on Friday after I placed it. And yes I still play pennys once in a while. And just so you know I feel bad but if it was going to happen why not make money on it? The BBB rating let me know they were done.
And I think you already know how I feel about
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
#20
Originally Posted by Fibonacci
I have no problem with you making money, just realize that there are real lives behind your gravedancing, just asking for a little couth my young jedi.
And I think you already know how I feel about
:wink:
And I think you already know how I feel about
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
#21
I feel the need...
Originally Posted by Renegade
I play it for fun...Lehman was a great short today like I called
#22
Originally Posted by Fibonacci
I play it for real... and it just so happens that gamblers only talk about their winners - how about your losers?
I've been in the market for a while now and haven't lost all my money. Thats better than 90% who try. No doubt I have a lot of losers but I'm becoming much more consistent.
#23
I feel the need...
Originally Posted by Renegade
I've had plenty of losers, not sure why you're on my ass.
#24
Originally Posted by Fibonacci
Because there is a difference between enjoying the fruits of your fine trades and being cognizant that there are real lives and real consequences to your actions. Cheering the misery of others is simply bad karma and that was my point.
#25
I feel the need...
Originally Posted by Renegade
Hahaa! Huge winner for me!
I'll cover tomorrow and celebrate![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I'll cover tomorrow and celebrate
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#26
Originally Posted by Fibonacci
Was responding to this... When you have a few years under your belt, you will celebrate quietly and move on to your position.
#28
I feel the need...
At Bear Stearns, Meet the New Boss
James Dimon tramped through the rain on Wednesday evening and strode into the headquarters of Bear Stearns, the embattled investment bank he hopes to buy for a mere $2 a share.
More than 400 Bear executives — seething, fearful and to their dismay, far poorer than they were a week ago — were waiting for him.
Only days after his controversial deal for the beleaguered investment bank stunned Wall Street, Mr. Dimon, the chairman and chief executive of JPMorgan Chase, made an appearance at Bear Stearns, hoping to win over executives who have vowed to fight his offer. Mr. Dimon left many of them as angry and resentful as he found them.
“I don’t think Bear did anything to deserve this,” Mr. Dimon said. “Our hearts go out to you.”
“No one on Wall Street could have anticipated this,” he continued. “I feel terrible sometimes when people think we took advantage. I don’t think we could possibly know what you all are feeling, but I hope that you give JPMorgan a chance.”
Over the next 45 minutes, Mr. Dimon made it clear that he hoped to retain the best employees at Bear but also made it plain that many of Bear’s 14,000 employees will lose their jobs as a result of the deal, struck at the urging of the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department. JPMorgan executives plan to cull one Bear employee after another, while keeping the best performers, as they move to integrate the two firms.....
More than 400 Bear executives — seething, fearful and to their dismay, far poorer than they were a week ago — were waiting for him.
Only days after his controversial deal for the beleaguered investment bank stunned Wall Street, Mr. Dimon, the chairman and chief executive of JPMorgan Chase, made an appearance at Bear Stearns, hoping to win over executives who have vowed to fight his offer. Mr. Dimon left many of them as angry and resentful as he found them.
“I don’t think Bear did anything to deserve this,” Mr. Dimon said. “Our hearts go out to you.”
“No one on Wall Street could have anticipated this,” he continued. “I feel terrible sometimes when people think we took advantage. I don’t think we could possibly know what you all are feeling, but I hope that you give JPMorgan a chance.”
Over the next 45 minutes, Mr. Dimon made it clear that he hoped to retain the best employees at Bear but also made it plain that many of Bear’s 14,000 employees will lose their jobs as a result of the deal, struck at the urging of the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department. JPMorgan executives plan to cull one Bear employee after another, while keeping the best performers, as they move to integrate the two firms.....
#29
how handsome I am
wow. Wish I understood the market a bit better. Though it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that bear going under sucks major balls for alooot of people.
#30
I feel the need...
Dimon Rejected Rescuing Bear Until Geithner Promised Funding
Hours from a market meltdown, as U.S. regulators pressed him for help in rescuing Bear Stearns Cos., Jamie Dimon said no.
The JPMorgan Chase & Co. chief executive officer was concerned that liabilities on the firm's books would bring along too much risk, Dimon and others involved in the bailout told Congress yesterday. Dimon's refusal prompted the Federal Reserve to step in with a loan, announced minutes before Asian markets opened that Sunday, March 16.
The testimony provided the most extensive account yet by participants in the largest U.S. rescue of a securities firm. Dimon, New York Federal Reserve President Timothy Geithner and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke defended the bailout while some lawmakers said it only rewarded risky market bets. The officials compared the turmoil they feared that weekend to the Panic of 1907 and the Great Depression-era run on banks.....
The JPMorgan Chase & Co. chief executive officer was concerned that liabilities on the firm's books would bring along too much risk, Dimon and others involved in the bailout told Congress yesterday. Dimon's refusal prompted the Federal Reserve to step in with a loan, announced minutes before Asian markets opened that Sunday, March 16.
The testimony provided the most extensive account yet by participants in the largest U.S. rescue of a securities firm. Dimon, New York Federal Reserve President Timothy Geithner and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke defended the bailout while some lawmakers said it only rewarded risky market bets. The officials compared the turmoil they feared that weekend to the Panic of 1907 and the Great Depression-era run on banks.....
#31
I feel the need...
Bear Stampede Outdoes Even `Mary Poppins' Panic
With congressional hearings filling the airwaves, Federal Reserve officials defending unprecedented moves, and a hail of new acronyms battering our heads, something important is clearly going on in the U.S. financial system. Trouble is, most people have no idea what it is.
All one really needs to understand the Bear Stearns Cos. mess is two words: ``Mary Poppins.''
Last September, historian Niall Ferguson wrote a prescient piece in the Telegraph of London that alluded to the movie classic and suggested that it wouldn't take much to cause a liquidity disaster today.
In the film, recall, young Michael starts a run on a bank when he demands that the bank president, Mr. Dawes Sr., return his tuppence. Screaming ``Give it back, Gimme back my money!'' Michael incites a panic, and depositors rush to get their money out, as a banker yells, ``stop all payments.''
Almost nothing at all happens, but a bank run occurs, nonetheless.
As Ferguson foresaw, Bear Stearns Chief Executive Officer Alan Schwartz last week made the case that something similar happened to his company, with the exception being that the problem was started by individuals with malicious intent.
``It looked like more than just fear -- it looked like people wanted to induce a panic,'' he said.
Christopher Cox, chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, lent some credence to the accusation, when he told Congress the SEC is investigating the matter.....
All one really needs to understand the Bear Stearns Cos. mess is two words: ``Mary Poppins.''
Last September, historian Niall Ferguson wrote a prescient piece in the Telegraph of London that alluded to the movie classic and suggested that it wouldn't take much to cause a liquidity disaster today.
In the film, recall, young Michael starts a run on a bank when he demands that the bank president, Mr. Dawes Sr., return his tuppence. Screaming ``Give it back, Gimme back my money!'' Michael incites a panic, and depositors rush to get their money out, as a banker yells, ``stop all payments.''
Almost nothing at all happens, but a bank run occurs, nonetheless.
As Ferguson foresaw, Bear Stearns Chief Executive Officer Alan Schwartz last week made the case that something similar happened to his company, with the exception being that the problem was started by individuals with malicious intent.
``It looked like more than just fear -- it looked like people wanted to induce a panic,'' he said.
Christopher Cox, chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, lent some credence to the accusation, when he told Congress the SEC is investigating the matter.....
#32
I feel the need...
Trader charged with spreading false rumours
Originally Posted by Renegade
I play it for fun...Lehman was a great short today like I called
A Wall Street short-seller on Thursday was charged by the Securities and Exchange Commission with spreading false rumours in a case that suggests regulators are taking a fresh look at behaviour that many companies say is now rampant.
The case, which hinges on rumours about a Blackstone takeover deal, comes as the SEC faces growing pressure to investigate allegations that false rumours about Bear Stearns may have had contributed to its collapse last month.
EDITOR’S CHOICE
Gabelli in $16m payment to SEC - Apr-25
SEC to report on credit rating agencies - Apr-23
NY investigates auction securities market - Apr-18
Headstart rejects SEC’s ‘market timing’ claim - Apr-12
SEC to propose rules on ratings conflicts - Apr-10
SEC sues Headstart over alleged fund fraud - Apr-11
After Bear’s liquidity evaporated, similar rumours hit Lehman Brothers, leading to a sharp, but temporary, drop in its shares. At the SEC’s request, Lehman and other banks sent information to the commission about trading in their securities in the days surrounding Bear’s collapse.
Rumour-mongering cases are rare and notoriously difficult to prove because they require investigators to track down the initial source of the rumour and produce documentary evidence.
In spite of that, Chris Cox, SEC chairman, said the commission would take firm action against people who spread bogus rumours.
“The message of this case is simple and direct. The commission will vigorously investigate and prosecute those who manipulate markets with this witch’s brew of damaging rumours and short sales,” he said.....
The case, which hinges on rumours about a Blackstone takeover deal, comes as the SEC faces growing pressure to investigate allegations that false rumours about Bear Stearns may have had contributed to its collapse last month.
EDITOR’S CHOICE
Gabelli in $16m payment to SEC - Apr-25
SEC to report on credit rating agencies - Apr-23
NY investigates auction securities market - Apr-18
Headstart rejects SEC’s ‘market timing’ claim - Apr-12
SEC to propose rules on ratings conflicts - Apr-10
SEC sues Headstart over alleged fund fraud - Apr-11
After Bear’s liquidity evaporated, similar rumours hit Lehman Brothers, leading to a sharp, but temporary, drop in its shares. At the SEC’s request, Lehman and other banks sent information to the commission about trading in their securities in the days surrounding Bear’s collapse.
Rumour-mongering cases are rare and notoriously difficult to prove because they require investigators to track down the initial source of the rumour and produce documentary evidence.
In spite of that, Chris Cox, SEC chairman, said the commission would take firm action against people who spread bogus rumours.
“The message of this case is simple and direct. The commission will vigorously investigate and prosecute those who manipulate markets with this witch’s brew of damaging rumours and short sales,” he said.....
#33
Originally Posted by Fibonacci
#35
Originally Posted by Fibonacci
^^ just bustin yer balls young jedi, don't be so sensitive (notice the :wink: )
Don't worry, we'll bail you out when the Feds come knockin.![Smooch](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smooch.gif)
Don't worry, we'll bail you out when the Feds come knockin.
![Smooch](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smooch.gif)
BTW take a look at symbol DUCK for long term hold.
#36
I feel the need...
Bringing Down Bear Stearns
by BRYAN BURROUGH August 2008
On Monday, March 10, the rumor started: Bear Stearns was having liquidity problems. In fact, the maverick investment bank had around $18 billion in cash reserves. But soon the speculation created its own reality, and the race was on to keep Bear’s crisis from ravaging Wall Street. With the blow-by-blow from insiders, Bryan Burrough follows the players—Bear’s stunned executives, trigger-happy reporters at CNBC, a nervous Fed, a shadowy group of short-sellers—in what some believe was the greatest financial scandal in history.
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/f...urrentPage=all
Best article I've seen on the the bear's last days and the sequence of events leading up to the fall, an insiders perspective.
On Monday, March 10, the rumor started: Bear Stearns was having liquidity problems. In fact, the maverick investment bank had around $18 billion in cash reserves. But soon the speculation created its own reality, and the race was on to keep Bear’s crisis from ravaging Wall Street. With the blow-by-blow from insiders, Bryan Burrough follows the players—Bear’s stunned executives, trigger-happy reporters at CNBC, a nervous Fed, a shadowy group of short-sellers—in what some believe was the greatest financial scandal in history.
On Monday, March 10, Wall Street was tense, as it had been for months. The mortgage market had crashed; major companies like Citigroup and Merrill Lynch had written off billions of dollars in bad loans. In what the economists called a “credit crisis,” the big banks were so spooked they had all but stopped lending money, a trend which, if it continued, would spell disaster on 21st-century Wall Street, where trading firms routinely borrow as much as 50 times the cash in their accounts to trade complex financial instruments such as derivatives.
Still, as he drove in from his Connecticut home to the glass-sheathed Midtown Manhattan headquarters of Bear Stearns, Sam Molinaro wasn’t expecting trouble. Molinaro, 50, Bear’s popular chief financial officer, thought he could spot the first rays of daylight at the end of nine solid months of nonstop crisis. The nation’s fifth-largest investment bank, known for its notoriously freewheeling—some would say maverick—culture, Bear had pledged to fork over more than $3 billion the previous summer to bail out one of its two hedge funds that had bet heavily on subprime loans. At the time, rumors flew it would go bankrupt. Bear’s swashbuckling C.E.O., 74-year-old Jimmy Cayne, pilloried as a detached figure who played bridge and rounds of golf while his firm was in crisis, had been ousted in January. His replacement, an easygoing 58-year-old investment banker named Alan Schwartz, was down at the Breakers resort in Palm Beach that morning, rubbing elbows with News Corp.’s Rupert Murdoch and Viacom’s Sumner Redstone at Bear’s annual media conference.
It was an uneventful morning—at first. Molinaro sat in his sixth-floor corner office, overlooking Madison Avenue, catching up on paperwork after a week-long trip visiting European investors. Then, around 11, something happened. Exactly what, no one knows to this day. But Bear’s stock began to fall. It was then, questioning his trading desks downstairs, that Molinaro first heard the rumor: Bear was having liquidity troubles, Wall Street’s way of saying the firm was running out of money. Molinaro made a face. This was crazy. There was no liquidity problem. Bear had about $18 billion in cash reserves.
Yet the whiff of gossip Molinaro heard that morning was the first tiny ripple in what within hours would grow into a tidal wave of rumor and speculation that would crash down upon Bear Stearns and, in the span of one fateful week, destroy a firm that had thrived on Wall Street since its founding, in 1923.
The fall of Bear Stearns wasn’t just another financial collapse. There has never been anything on Wall Street to compare to it: a “run” on a major investment bank, caused in large part not by a criminal indictment or some mammoth quarterly loss but by rumor and innuendo that, as best one can tell, had little basis in fact. Bear had endured more than its share of self-inflicted wounds in the previous year, but there was no reason it had to die that week in March.....
Still, as he drove in from his Connecticut home to the glass-sheathed Midtown Manhattan headquarters of Bear Stearns, Sam Molinaro wasn’t expecting trouble. Molinaro, 50, Bear’s popular chief financial officer, thought he could spot the first rays of daylight at the end of nine solid months of nonstop crisis. The nation’s fifth-largest investment bank, known for its notoriously freewheeling—some would say maverick—culture, Bear had pledged to fork over more than $3 billion the previous summer to bail out one of its two hedge funds that had bet heavily on subprime loans. At the time, rumors flew it would go bankrupt. Bear’s swashbuckling C.E.O., 74-year-old Jimmy Cayne, pilloried as a detached figure who played bridge and rounds of golf while his firm was in crisis, had been ousted in January. His replacement, an easygoing 58-year-old investment banker named Alan Schwartz, was down at the Breakers resort in Palm Beach that morning, rubbing elbows with News Corp.’s Rupert Murdoch and Viacom’s Sumner Redstone at Bear’s annual media conference.
It was an uneventful morning—at first. Molinaro sat in his sixth-floor corner office, overlooking Madison Avenue, catching up on paperwork after a week-long trip visiting European investors. Then, around 11, something happened. Exactly what, no one knows to this day. But Bear’s stock began to fall. It was then, questioning his trading desks downstairs, that Molinaro first heard the rumor: Bear was having liquidity troubles, Wall Street’s way of saying the firm was running out of money. Molinaro made a face. This was crazy. There was no liquidity problem. Bear had about $18 billion in cash reserves.
Yet the whiff of gossip Molinaro heard that morning was the first tiny ripple in what within hours would grow into a tidal wave of rumor and speculation that would crash down upon Bear Stearns and, in the span of one fateful week, destroy a firm that had thrived on Wall Street since its founding, in 1923.
The fall of Bear Stearns wasn’t just another financial collapse. There has never been anything on Wall Street to compare to it: a “run” on a major investment bank, caused in large part not by a criminal indictment or some mammoth quarterly loss but by rumor and innuendo that, as best one can tell, had little basis in fact. Bear had endured more than its share of self-inflicted wounds in the previous year, but there was no reason it had to die that week in March.....
Best article I've seen on the the bear's last days and the sequence of events leading up to the fall, an insiders perspective.
![Bye](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/bye.gif)
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