PhilB81

I don’t mind EVs at all, actually, our next everyday car has a strong chance of being an EV, or at a minimum plug-in hybrid. However, the toy car, I want it manual with ICE.

Pffff that’s nothing for me, I’m so rich, the other day I ordered two Whoppers, I didn’t even use coupons, straight cash…

joke aside, that thing isn’t worth 100k, cute car but not that cute.

leomio2.0

Stop bragging.

I went to BK the other day and used a coupon for two Whopper meals. And I ordered two different drinks to make it look like it was for different people. And then proceeded to eat them both myself. Only drank the seltzer tho ... because we don't drink our calories (unless they're alcoholic)!


My biggest gripe about the Integra is that it's just not different enough to the base Civic that it's mirrored from. The ride isn't much better, nor is the road isolation. The materials and seats are nicer, but that's about it. With the CTR v. ITS, the disparity seems like it will become even smaller. They both have adaptive dampers, so the ride likely won't be much different from the CTR. Everyone talks about how comfy the CTR seats are too, so I don't see how they'll improve upon them. My biggest issue is that I likely won't fit ... since I have wide birthing hips ... and possibly due to the Whoppers.

I was hoping that Acura would make the thing handle like doody (comparatively) but makes the ride noticeably more compliant. We'll see when people actually drive it, but I foresee a lot of reviewers skeptically saying, "it does seem to ride a little better ... I think ..." Hopefully I'm wrong. You're basically paying a premium for more sedate styling and nicer interior materials at that point.

I think the biggest benefit will be in tempering mark-ups on the CTR. If Honda dealers want to charge $50k for the CTR, and the ITS is essentially the same, reskinned car, people will just go down to their Acura dealer. So long as Acura and Honda are making these in somewhat attainable production numbers. It'll be interesting to see what's what in a few weeks. I'm definitely not in the market for either, but I do really like both.

sonyfever

The supply of ITR... I mean ITS, would probably be equally limited, so the markup situation probably will be similar in metro areas.

Earlier someone said it is too expensive for young kids... IMHO, there are a lot of young kids with $$$ to spare, and a $50k ITS is not that expensive in today's market for a somewhat specialized, but can-do-it-all car.

I am pretty sure the demand from that pool will take out most of the supply. Then there will be another group of people who look at this as the Acura that they wanted Acura to make 10-15 years ago (yes I am talking about myself). I hope I can get to test drive one, but I am not hopeful the local dealerships will have any stock for a while.

leomio2.0

The one thing going for the ITS is that it will be produced here in the US, whereas the CTR gets made in Japan. Also, I believe it was fiatlux who pointed out the CTR/ITS's K20C1 engine is actually built here in Ohio. Time will tell if they'll artificially keep the production numbers low, but I don't see why they couldn't churn these things out to meet demand. The "value" in the ITS may come in that you can actually scoop one up for sticker, which will hopefully also improve the likelihood of people who still prefer the CTR to get one at a reasonable price.

Shadow2056

The problem with the Type R and most likely the ITS is gonna be the dealers. The mark ups normally take them out of the budget of the crowd the cars were geared towards. Unless the person is making $60k+/yr, the car is unattainable for them.

PhilB81

Personally, the markup/ ADM does a bit more to the ownership… I have some personal experience with the “game” and I have to say that after going from dealer to dealer and getting shut downs, to finally be given the privilege of paying over MSRP for a car. It tends to ruin the driving experience, it’s hard to just go out for a drive and enjoy it. What if you get a rock chip, or the bozo behind isn’t focused and taps you at a red light… I was disappointed to see that it’s still considered murder, even for those very valid reasons…

I can imagine someone that really wanted a CTR or an Integra-S, he can stretch to get it, but now he realizes there will be some markup, but heart has spoken, so stretching it further. Finally gets the car, now it’s a daily driver through bumper to bumper, good/bad weather conditions. Talk about sweaty palms… it’s not like these are Ferrari 812 or Lamborghini Aventador where the owner has another ride that takes the road rash…

Anyways, sorry, short rant, but yeah I don’t really care about markup on those prestige / unicorn cars, but the CTR and ITS (integraS) should be an everyday car for the enthusiast. I also don’t fully understand why the CTR or ITS is in high demand… it’s not s numbered car, why do they have civic DX on the lot or base model Integra but the TypeS is somehow that more difficult to make?
Flood the market with the CTR, and make the guy that wants the HX model that gets 55mpg mixed driving pay the markup

fiatlux

The bullshit with all the markups on the CTR (one of my local dealerships had the audacity to suggest a $50K markup, and then said he'd do me a favor and only charge $30K) is what lead me to impulsively put down a deposit on a 911. I'm getting sick and tired of having to play games with dealerships whenever a hot new car finally comes out. At least with Porsche, all that (admittedly inflated) money actually goes to the company that engineered and built the car, and not to the middleman who does jack squat to deserve the markup.

PhilB81

not on the GT cars, or maybe you’re a lot better connected than me…
also, wow you have / had a lot of cars!

ijm5012

I’ve had a deposit down at my dealer since the day the official images came out of the car from that press event in Japan. Only $1k, fully refundable, but it got me my spot at the top of the list while we wait for more info.

I currently have a 2921 TLX A-Spec SH-AWD. Bought it CPO back in October. It’s a nice car and I like it overall, but there are a couple gripes I have with it that the ITS would address (rear seat space, cargo usability, and fuel mileage).

Things I’d miss would be the SH-AWD, nicer interior design and materials.

At an upper $40’s MSRP and no dealer mark-ups, I’d be extremely interested in making the switch. I suppose I’ll find out more in a few weeks when Acura makes the full reveal at the LBGP.

PhilB81

that’s great! I can’t wait to read your review / thoughts on the car!

PhilB81

Double posting here, but I just read the ITS will not have seats similar to the CTR. What a bummer, those seats are incredible. Personally, I think those are the best sports seats I’ve ever sat in. I really like how adjustable they are, unlike the carbon bucket seats on the Porsche that are way too upright especially with a helmet on.

BreezyTL

iTrader: (8)

My co-worker just ordered an Aspec. She is an older lady that had wants of a 5-door, manual and blue. It was this or the civic, but she said the civic blue wasn't a blue she wanted. I can't wait to see one of these in person. Should be here in a week or two.

lauren01

As an older gal myself, and with the blue/white manual, am wondering how old is that older lady?

BreezyTL

iTrader: (8)

She has to be late 60 / early 70. Ready to retire whenever but its just her so she is in no rush to do so.

lauren01

Good for her. I've got more years to work for sure--am only 57. Loved my new '87 Integra when I was 21. What a car!!!

MDXAccord

My local dealer has already told me there will be a Market Adjustment with dealer accessories. Why?

leomio2.0

Because there's too many suckers out there that will pay it to be "first". Juvenile antics. Just wait. After the initial rush, they'll sit around for you to pick from a litter, much like the TLX-S currently.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Don't fall for the ADM crap. There are plenty of reputable dealers who will sell you an ITS at MSRP. You may have to wait awhile, but you will get a car and at a fair price.

We ordered our ASpec Tech 6MT last Memorial Day weekend. It was a low number trim/color combo (Performance Red/Orchid interior/6MT, so not available in big numbers at first. People were paying all sorts of ADM and silly "package" mark ups at the time. We were fortunate not to need a new car, and waited for what we wanted to come in, which it did in November, exactly as predicted by our salesman. And we paid exactly the MSRP, plus two options we wanted, mud guards and upgraded ASpec mats.

leomio2.0

Yep. And paying more for a worse product. I'll wait for the Civic MMC. I've seen complaints from both Civic and Integra owners about the terrible road noise, poor interior quality (ie: rattles) and poor paint quality. The last two are Honda staples, so likely not much is going to change there, but hopefully they do something about the poor road isolation, if not for the Civic, at least for the Integra.

Honestly, if the ride quality isn't noticeably better than the CTR, I probably won't get the ITS unless I can get it for the same price as the CTR. Why would I pay more for something built worse? The CTR will undoubtedly be put together better being built in Japan over Ohio. Plus, you don't get the CTR seats that everyone raves about (though, I'll have to see if my wide birthing hips fit).

JM2010 SH-AWD

"Yep. And paying more for a worse product. I'll wait for the Civic MMC. I've seen complaints from both Civic and Integra owners about the terrible road noise, poor interior quality (ie: rattles) and poor paint quality. The last two are Honda staples, so likely not much is going to change there, but hopefully they do something about the poor road isolation, if not for the Civic, at least for the Integra."

I obviously can't speak to the ITS, but regarding complaints about road noise and build quality, after almost 6 months our Integra is tight as a drum. I'll probably jinx myself here, but there's not a single rattle or squeak in the car. It is very solid-feeling and sounding. Ours is Performance Red Pearl, and the paint is magnificent. Not a single flaw, and when clean and in the sun it absolutely looks liquid. Just beautiful.

Road noise is not bad at all. A little louder maybe than my 10+ year old TL, but as quiet or perhaps quieter than our 9G Accord with 120K on it. I think the stock Conti tires are a little louder than others, but it's certainly not offensive or problematic. Even if it were, the car is so responsive and alive that it wouldn't matter, to me at least.

Tony Pac

I cannot say much about rattle but road noise is not bad at all. I test drove it for 45-50 minutes.

leomio2.0

Chrifff

All I can say is... I have owned my 2023 Integra Aspec 6 speed manual since it came out in last year. The road noise is not an issue for me and in that video I would say is somewhat exaggerated. However each person has their own preferences.i used to own a 2013 ILX 2.4L Dynamic, and I found that much louder on the highway - So perhaps the reason the this Teg doesn't bother me.

Also my previous vehicle was a 2015 Audi S4 in manual, that was quieter, but also 800 pounds heavier. I will take a little more road noise opposed to a heavy car blocking out the engine sound - Although this engine is not the best sounding one.

My biggest complaint on the car is the lack of vtec revving fun, i totally miss that in my Ilx, and all my previous Honda's. But unfortunately those 8000—9000 redline days days are gone.

Tony Pac

You said it well....I drive a 2020 3 series time to time as a family member has it and that car is noisy as hell and I feel the door panels and dash is beyond cheap. But the owner loves it and he has no complaints.

JM2010 SH-AWD

This. The lightness of this car (especially compared to other modern cars) is one of the things that is special about it.

leomio2.0

"At 70 mph, the cabin is a subdued and peaceful 64 decibels, so it's luxury-car quiet at speed."

2019 330i by C&D
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/


I don't know if they made any changes, but the only ICE G20 3-series I could find AoA reviewing.

Could just be the RFT's are in need of replacement, as if they weren't noisy enough when new. Or just brand bias.

Google '3-series road noise' and you have a number of old posts for cars with tired seals. Do the same with Civic and Integra and you have your pick of the litter of complaints of road noise for the 11G Civic and new gen Integra.

If they remedy this in the MMC, don't ruin the ride by making it "track focused" (doesn't seem to be the case), price it right and produce enough to stave off ridiculous ADM ... this car will be very hard to ignore down the road.

leomio2.0

Ironic that we talk about a 3200lb car in this day in age as "lightweight". It's true though ... just shows you how heavy modern cars have gotten.

I remember back in my high school days having an argument in my circle of friends, most of whom were Import enthusiasts (comes with being Asian hanging around other Asians). The biggest arguments were how heavy domestic cars were, how much of gas guzzlers they were and how they couldn't handle. A 2000 Mustang GT has a curb weight of 3,250lbs and that was derided as being overweight.

Now you have the TLX Type-S that weighs more than a supercharged V8 CT5-V Blackwing. Mustangs and Camaros top trims can run circles around anything coming out of Japan in a straight line or on a track ... well, maybe minus the Supra which is German.

It's crazy how the domestics just catapulted themselves to rival the Germans from a performance standpoint and the Japanese just quietly took their ball and went home. I suppose that's why the CTR has such crazy demand. There's really nothing else for Import fans to really get excited for.

sonyfever

Oh yes this is a quality so under-appreciated in today's world. Some want torque vectoring, but they forget on a car of this size /weight/power, you don't need torque vectoring to have good handling and good drive out of a corner. All you need is strong front grip, stiff body, and a rear that rotates.

JM2010 SH-AWD

^^ Absolutely. Whenever I drive this car (it's primarily my wife's car) I'm amazed at learning another thing it does well in the handling department. So much fun to toss it around and let that LSD and low end turbo grunt pull you out of the turns.

Just by coincidence, I'm renting one of the Integra's competitors this week while on a work trip, an Audi A3. I've ridden in S3s but have never driven those or an A3. The motor/transmission (I think DSG) is pretty snappy, but the steering and handling are vague at best. Driving today in rain, I did not feel very confident about the front end sticking, and steering feel is very numb. Experienced some disconcerting bump steer from the back on a couple of rough, New England entrance ramps.

The inside of car is OK, but nothing special, and I think it greatly pales next to the ASpec Tech Integra. Lots of hard plastic everywhere in the front -- dash, doors, etc. Tech works OK, but nothing special, and it lacks a few features our Acura has.

Excellent gas mileage, almost rivaling what we're seeing with our Integra.

Interior noise on the highway is pretty high. I'd need a direct side by side comparison on the same road surface to make a definitive statement, but my impression is that it is appreciably louder than the Acura. It does feel very solid - no interior rattles or squeaks at about 5300 miles. Sound system is garden variety -- no match for ELS.

I know Audi brand value is high these days, but especially when you consider price, it's not surprising the Integra is hammering the compact luxury sedan market (or whatever they call it) since its introduction.

Tony Pac

Pricing and availability: https://acuranews.com/en-US/releases...e-order-may-11

sonyfever

Acura for sure pushed the price to the top end of what is reasonable. I feel this higher price indicates supply will be limited. At the end of the day, I think we are not talking about big difference between MSRP and the expectation. Still think the car is attractive enough to fly off the lot.

Tony Pac

Agreed and well said! Those who want it, will get it and pay the price or even above to have the car parked next to their home

Chargersix

As always with heavily hyped vehicles, there will be an initial feeding frenzy from those who have to have one, and the sooner the better. But once this initial onslaught is over, and potential buyers start to compare it to other available performance vehicles, they will be readily available on dealer lots. I’d give it maybe a year, all depends on how limited they keep it. Regardless, it will not be a “we can sell as many as you can build” vehicle. As usual, patience will be rewarded.

loki

LOL $52K for a FWD 2.0T LOL!!! And I'm ignoring the fact there will be $20K ADM and that they're making a grand total of 200 for the entire year! At that price, you can get a brand new Camaro 2SS 1LE 6MT - a 6.2L V8 track weapon. Or just get a TLX Type S for that matter. Unbelievable. Just flat out laughable. Who are they marketing this car at??? People with that kind of money don't buy front wheel drive manual-only econ-sized cars.

PhilB81

The price is high, I agree with you all, but I don’t understand the low production numbers. Is the integra TypeS supposed to be a rarer car than a Porsche 918, or a LaFerrari?
I thought the NSX typeS was too low of a production number, but why do that with the integra?

I too believe there will be an initial frenzy and then the hype will cool off, but I still don’t understand it, it’s not a status car, and it’s not a niche car like the Corolla GR.

@Loki I get what you’re saying, but I don’t think that anyone seriously considering the integra-S is cross-shopping the Camaro. I think it’ll matter more how it stacks against Toyota (not even sure which model actually, crown: ugly and big, Camry; big, Corolla; maybe too small?)Benz c class, bmw 2 or 3 series, etc…

fiatlux

JFC guys, they’re not limiting production to 200; they’re just making 200 available for preorder. If you remember, the regular Integra had a pre-order of 500 cars; did Acura only make 500 regular Integras?

They literally say in their press release:

"One of the first 200", not "one of only 200".

As for the price, it makes sense for Acura to price it this way. Why? Because the current ATP for the CTR is already way higher. The lowest ADM I've been able to find in the entire state of California is $15K, and that's if you want to go to the middle of nowhere in the Central Valley. If you can get an ITS at MSRP (which it seems you can; one of my local dealerships today committed to MSRP), it'll be cheaper than the CTR's market price. This would be a win for Acura, because instead of letting greedy dealerships rake in this market adjustment, they can absorb it for themselves.

MDXAccord

I can stomach the price if it was order directly from Acura. But with dealers involved, they will be pushing the "only 200" $20K MSRP line.....unbelievable

leomio2.0

Unless I'm reading it wrong, I believe the 200 are pre-orders. There's no official number on total for the year.

Really disappointed with the price. But, should we have expected any different? Acura has just been heaping it on in that department. From being underpowered & overweight to being overpriced. I was already on the fence to begin with ... I'm fully off the fence with a hard "no."

Stuff like this just helps reinforce that:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Acura/comme...d_rattles_and/

I've complained about my 2020 RDX being a rattle-box. Seems it's simply a feature now when it comes to Acuras.

sonyfever

TOV said they heard 600 units this year from dealer source. If true, I was way off on the number. My guess was 100~300 units per month....

mvl

Other than NSX/PMC numbered mofels, I don't think anything Acura manufactures (even TypeS models) are intended to be rare and hard to find. The CTR is a numbered model and has an Ohio engines shipped to Japan, ITS apppears to be normal manufacuring processes run through regular Honda assembly lines. I agree that the higher-than-expected price was designed to align with supply, but my guess is that they can easily reallocate days from the Civic assembly line to ITS if excess demand is there.

With pandemic shortages largely in the rearview mirror for Acura (my dealer has a fully stocked showroom with every highend model, and Honda corporate predicted shortages would be over in early 2023), I think we should be back to prepandemic normal days for Acura launches:

By "normal" I'd predict ITS will have ADM for 1-2 months max, MSRP for 6 months, and typical below MSRP towards the end of the 2024 MY. And you can probably buy 1-2 colors same day off the lot by late summer and get any color you want with under a 30 day wait.

Don't forget we just had another fed ratehike that should probably knock out most of the last ADMs left in the industry.