poohlikeshunny

I want to install wood laminate flooring in our basement right over the concrete slab. Our house is at the top of a hill and it has never had a problem with flooding, so I am not worried about that (unless we get hit with a hurricane here in southeast PA...HA). Are there any precautions I should take before laying down flooring? Do I need to a lay a subfloor down first?

ric

I would still lay down a subfloor, in part because, although your concern about flooding may be legitimate, concrete can still 'wick' moisture, and that, over time, can have an effect on directly laid flooring. In addition, a subfloor may actually give the final floor a bit more walking resilience.

Scrib

I would also recommend a subfloor for the reasons ric mentioned along with the fact that your concrete floor most certainly isn't perfectly level. The laminate is going to find every depression unless it is somehow leveled.

soopa

http://www.dricore.com/

poohlikeshunny

awesome...thanx for the replies!!! i guess you guys are right, i know there are a few spots where it isn't totally level...warping flooring is no good...

as for that dricore stuff, looks like you just cut and lay it down before you put the flooring down...do i have to get down and really clean and disinfect the concrete slab before laying down subflooring? or am i being too paranoid?

ie. if I sweep up my concrete slab, can I just then proceed to lay down the subfloor and then lay down laminate? or do i really need to get down and dirty and make sure I clean all the old residue from the adhesive that previously held down the old tiles?

soopa

the dricore is pre-cut into 24x24" tongue & groove tiles. all you do is lay them down and snap them together. they come with little plastic shim-like things so you can level any low spots in your floor.

i dont think you have to worry about your slab being squeaky clean but you should definately vacuum it and scrape off any raised spots... like if theres a big chunk of adhesive residue.

that said, dricore has a dimpled bottom so unlike straight plywood or something, it's pretty good at covering and hiding debris.

curls

At minimum, use a plastic vapour barrier made for laminate flooring, as well as a thick underpad made for laminate flooring. Some better ones have a foil backing that helps keep the floor warm whereas concrete would make it cooler and less comfortable.

To do the job correctly and make it more enjoyable and solid feeling, use the dricore as mentioned above, PLUS a good quality vapour barrier (below the dricore) and a good, thick, laminate-flooring approved pad above the subfloor. You'll notice the flooring sounds and feels more solid, level, warmer, and overall makes a mediocre floor feel excellent.

poohlikeshunny

perfect, just what I need...I was worried about how to level the pits out..

curls, is this vapor barrier you speak of the thick sheet of plastic that is laid across the subfloor? So it would be concrete slab, vapor barrier, subfloor, padding, then laminate? Sounds like most of this stuff is eay to install and requires no nailing or adhesives, right?

curls

Exactly.

poohlikeshunny

good stuff...much appreciated!!! Looks like I am going out tonight to get some more supplies!!!

curls

Oh... there are other ways to get a level surface too, isntead of going out and buying the fairly-pricey dricore panels.

You can get self-levelling compound that you pour into lower areas, that will spread out and self-level, harden, and then you install the vapour barrier + pad + laminate over that. If you are looking to level and entire basement, and not just one room, it's especially easy. If just one room or area, you'll need to put down some barriers, as the stuff is very runny and thin, and will spread out as far as it needs to (or can go) until its level.

My guess is that this would be cheaper than Dricore, and provide a perfectly level surface to work on.

Here's one example which gives fairly good instructions on how to use/apply this particular product: http://www.edisoncoatings.com/html/S...te_floor_t.htm

From what I've read, you will still need to work it into the lower areas, but you have to work fairly quick as it hardens up enough to be unworkable, within 5-10 minutes. So, examine your room, identify the low areas (and grind down any really high areas), and them mix smallish batches of the compound and apply to the low areas you identified.

Don't track it through the house or your wife might kill you.

poohlikeshunny

wow...lol...sounds intense...hahaha...sounds pretty good, and much cheaper too! What can I do about a drain? In th middle of the work area is a drain in the middle of the room and the floor at that point is a little lower than the rest...i don't want to seal up the drain though just in case....although the guy before us DID install some sort of cover for it...

SiGGy

use leveling compound.... shimming the subfloor (dricore) is not the right way to level it...

poohlikeshunny

looks like i'll go with the cheaper route with the compound first...do i just get regular subfloor then?

curls

IMO if you level it, you won't need a wooden subfloor -- just the plastic vapour barrier, and the underpadding made for laminate floors.

as for your question about the drain -- I'm not 100% sure. I would NOT remove or cover it completely as it's probably against code (and if insurance found out, and you had a flood, you'd be screwed). You want 'some' slope towards the drain, but how to achieve that? I'm not sure.

Remember your floor won't need to be perfectly level, either. The underpad will help things settle w/o breaking the flooring at the joints. Then again you need it somewhat level, or at least flat (no hills and valley's and ridges, but it can be slightly sloped towards the drain.)

poohlikeshunny

yeah, i wanna make sure that none of the panels crack or slide out of fitment...the drain worries me though....i may have to take a jigsaw to the flooring and try to cut out a hole where the drain is...not having to buy subfloor would be awesome though!!! You guys may have just saved me enough for a cold air intake!!!

curls

In my (limited) experience, the panels shouldn't crack or come out of fitment unless there are visible peaks and valleys that will cause a panel to "tip" over time. Slight roll or mounding to the concrete isn't too bad. Basically, if a peak and valley (think of a " ~ ") are covered entirely by one panel, then I think you should level it (because with no levelling in that situation, that single panel is prone to cracking/shifting/sliding/creaking). Otherwise, as long as the peak or valley are shallow, I wouldn't even bother with levelling it, and just use a decent thickness laminate underpad.

Always go with the best underpad you can afford, and ALWAYS with one made for laminate flooring (less flex = more stability, plus the laminate ones have great sound deadening properties which make the floors nicer to walk on).

Have fun (with the CAI!).

poohlikeshunny

ah...any specific brands for laminate flooring you would recommened?

and yes, the CAI is long overdue...btw,what makes them niceer to walk on? is it cushier?

curls

Brands? No... thickness? Yes. Go with as thick as you can find in a style that suits your room aspirations. The single-plank stuff is even nicer (ie: looks more realistic because you're laying 1 board at a time instead of 3).

The thicker it is, usually the better it sounds and feels. In terms of underpadding and its benefits, the better quality the pad, the better the feel under your feet and more importantly (to me, anyhow), the better the sound. I find cheap laminate and cheap underpad = a very hollow sound. Whereas a thicker laminate + better underpad = a more hardwood-like, solid sound. No click-click... know what I mean?

hypertech

I did concrete - vapor barrier - cork underlayment - flooring.

I used Kahrs engineered hardwood and it looks great and is easy to install. The top layer is real wood but it is manufactured like a laminate. It also has a self locking joint so you don't have to worry about seems pulling apart.

poohlikeshunny

and it feels solid underneath your feet? Do you have to worry about mold problems with cork or any other subfloor? we are having central air installed, but not for another few months and it gets a little humid in the basement...is that a concern going in?

Scrib

Regardless of what flooring you go with, you absolutely need a dehumidifier in the basement for the summer.

soopa

My bike has their logos on it, so for that only reason I have to recommend: http://www.quick-step.com/

Scrib

quick-step is nice stuff... The new Pergo stuff is rather decent too...

If laminate is the choice, look for the stuff that already has the foam backing already on the laminate.

poohlikeshunny

awesome stuff! we started ripping up the old tiles this past weekend and are gonna lay down the padding and stuff this week...i laid some down just to see what it would look like and OMG...what a beautiful difference...i was afraid laminate would be too cheap looking, but it's starting to look great!

curls

Wow, that quick-step stuff does look fantastic (at least based on their website!). If I ever feel like redoing the entrance/veranda area, it might just be in the laminate "tile". A little easier on the kids' heads should they fall... lol!

poohlikeshunny

lol....i was just thinking that as you type it up too! my kids' heads will thank me in the years to come...

hypertech

It feels very solid to me. I went with a 3mm cork. Apparantly it is even better at 5/6 mm but I didn't want to raise the floor that high and cost more.

As far as I know the cork shouldn't mold. It really shouldn't ever be exposed to water becasue there is a vapor barrier from teh bottom and a hard finish on teh wood from above. By the time water would seep down to the cork, the flooring would have been ruined anyway.

hypertech

That probably depends on where you live. If anything, mine is too dry.

Nicky Pass

I used shaw laminate for my condo and it tuned out great! The best part is that it was $40 for 20.81 sq. ft. at Menards.

poohlikeshunny

I remember your pics!!! It was a beauitful update!!! That's not a bad price. Did you do it yourself?

hypertech, i guess yuo're right, floor would be ruined before cork molded...vapor barrier should be more than enough....so 3mm is a nice solid feel?

Nicky Pass

I didn't do it myself, but I could have! A mexican guy that works for my dad had a cousin that does flooring...he only charged me $550 for about 420 sq ft!

poohlikeshunny

shit..will they fly out to PA??? lol...I could use me some cheap labor....

Nicky Pass

All you really need is a small table saw.....and MAYBE a jigsaw.