Scrib

OK... It's been quite a run of days recently. And the result is I got "house fever".

My wife and I found a subdivision that we like and found the design of house we like. 4 bedrooms 2700 sqft.

Ok, so I'm assuming every builder is different with their rules, but I'll ask the questions anyway and see what everyone thinks.

Here goes...

1) How customizable is a house? Specifically, the family room has a design were there is a HUGE cutout in the wall for a TV. I don't want that. I want one solid wall so I can plunk down my oak entertainment center, with all my audio and video racks. Can something like this at least be requested? Wouold they charge you more because of something like this?

2) Upgrades... As I understand it, they cost a friggin' fortune. If we were to sit down with the builder and say... "We want this house built... But we also want to put ceramic floors in the kitchen and baths, what would that run us?" Would they be able to provide a price on the spot? Do most builders have a list of upgrades and their prices?

3) How much of a pain is it to deal with construction loans? Anything I should know about?

4) Any other building tips?

Thanks all!

Ashburner

First of all, Congrats!!! I'm having my 3rd house being built in Houston right now so I have been through all of this before so here goes my advice...

1. Every builder is different. Some let you customize more than others. You are more likely to be able to change small items like outlets and such than larger structural items, such as the entertainment niche. You can request it but I highly doubt they will do anything. Your best bet is to bite the bullet and have a new entertainment center built custom into the space.

2. Upgrades... You will make an appointment at a design center designated by the builder. These design centers usally serve 3 or 4 home subdivisions. Once you get to the design center, they will show you what is standard (such as lenolium or cheap tile) and what the upgrades are (such as wood, 18" tile, etc...) They divide all of the upgrades into usually 3 or 4 levels or grades. The standard, of course, is included and always the cheapest stuff. They will provide you a price of everything you pick at the design center and they will also make you pay 50% down which will go towards closing. On a 2700 sq ft home, expect close to 20K on upgrades (unless everything is included- which only a few builders do)

Also, you could always just stick with the standards and then contract out exactly what you want. This is usually the cheaper route but ti can also be a hassle tearing up your brand new house.

3. Your builder will have a preferred lender. With the preferred lender, they usually agree to pay 1% towards closing costs and sometimes your title insurance. The rates maybe a little bit higher than what you could get on your own, but they are still competetive. It is very easy to qualify for a house. I filled out the pre-application and was approved without any documented income or anything. Sometimes the lender may make you provide W2's for the past 2 years and also bank statements, 401K statements, stock holdings, and pay stubs for the past 2-4 pay periods. If your FICA score is above 680, you shouldn't have a problem qualifying.

4. Tips- Make sure you get everything you want. Add extra outlets in rooms. Ask questions!!! Don't get a West facing backyard- you will regret it!!! Ask about incentives- sometimes builders will negotiate. Don't settle for unsatifactory workmanship! Go by your house at least weekly as sometimes the builders screw up structural items... Finally, GET A 3 CAR GARAGE!!!

Have fun

CL P Diddy

All good questions.

1) Customizing your house depends on the builder. If you are buying a "track" home (cookie cutter) then the answer is no. Usually, only custom builders will customize a floor plan for you, but you will pay for the redraw of the blueprints for that model because they would have to reengineer the structure even if it is just an interior wall. You would definately pay for the extra construction as well.

2) Yes, you can (an should) specify if you want a certain flooring before your home is built. And yes, ceramic tile and upgraded carpet or hard wood is going to cost quite a bit. There is better material and more labor involved. The cost depends on the size (square footage) of the room you want to tile. Tiles can range from $1 per tile to $10 a tile. You do the math. That is not including labor which your builder factors in to the price of the upgrade.

3) I do not know anything about construction loans other than that is something builders assume whether they sell a house or not. If you are getting a home built then you negotiate the price for that home and you obtain a home loan for that amount. There is much to know about home loans. Go on line and do a search for home loans and rates.

4) Building Tip #1: Learn all you can about how a house is supposed to be built and go to see your house under construction as often as possible. This is extremely important and can save you the headache of something going wrong later (say after you move in)

I am speaking from experience on all of these subjects because I had my house built a year and a half ago with upgrades and all and shes sound as a pound. I visited my house under construction 1-4 times a day until it was complete.

BTW. Home Depot and Lowe's will be your two favorite places in the world

And Oh, congratulations and good luck!!

GreenMonster

Just curious, what's the reasoning behind that ??

CL P Diddy

The sun rises in the east and sets in the west.

The sun will heat heat up your house in the evening and cause your AC to stay on. $$$$

suXor

You can have the cut out closed. Should not be a problem. Making it bigger would be the problem as you would interfere withthe structural integrity of the sub-wall, which may include support structures. Closing it off is jsut adding some additional studs, and dry-walling the whole area.

Tips:

Don't get any appliances included, have them removed from the build cost. Get your own. This way you are not paying for a stove/fridge/etc for the next 30 years.

Go with Gas where possible. If you have a fireplace, see if they have a gas starter option (gass grate under wood grate). This makes for easy fire starting!

Go look at appliances now. Get an idea of what you want, measure it and go to the builder withthat info. That way you can fit the ridge you want, without worring about depth, etc.

Other than appliaces, get all the updates you can afford:

• dual cable jacks in each room (gives you flexability in running loops from one room to another as need with some wire swapping in the attic)
• Telephone jacks
• double switches for the celing plate (fan/light)
• Good blinds (PVC that look like wood). They will ast a long time)
• Upgrade insulation if possible (some manufacturers already stuff the max in the attics, walls and soffits.
• Exterior lighting. Last thing you want to do is install flood lights, entry lights, garage lights after the fact.
• Rear speaker wiring. At least in my house (two story), I got screwed not getting this done. I can not run wires in the celing now unless I want to rip the drywall out and then redo it. If your configuration requires wires to be run ahead of time, have them do it, or ask to do it yourself during the wiring portion of the home. If they insist on doing it, make sure you sample the wire being used, or supply your own (minimum 14ga for rear to be ready). Also decide if you are going with in wall, book shelve, or floor standing speakers. This will determine if the wire just sticks out of the wall at 4.5' feet up the wall, or if you have a wire plate 1' up the wall. (you get my point)

Search the net for "problem" stories on your builder, or brand of home. This alone pushed us to use DR Horton as they build great homes with little to no complaints.

Ashburner

And... usually the family room and the master bedroom back up to the rear of the house. The sun will piss you off on a daily basis.

GreenMonster

Yep, the sun does set in the west (even up here in New England).

I guess it's more of a concern for you warmer climate folks. Up here we're more concerned w/ heat in the winter. Makes sense for you westcoast/southwest peeps.

chef chris

All points above are variable depending on the builder.

That being said, ASK-ASK-ASK...Asking is free Scrib. Sometimes you can get something by being halfway nice to the builder's rep...

Do plan on about $20K in options though, that sounds about right. My house was built in 10/02...we went on the easy side & still spent $20K extra(2600 sq ft).

Best advise I can give....Don't be scared to stop by daily. You are your own best protection against mistakes...because, the contractors WILL make mistakes...Good Luck

Stock03CLS

Definitely ask questions. If you don't ask, the contractor will not work towards what you want, but rather what he wants. In the end, you'll get screwed.

Anything you agree on with the builder, get it in writing so you have proof.

Also, check up on the builder before you put down any money. All builders are not created equal. It's far better to pass on what seems the "perfect" house now from a crappy builder than to find out in 2 years that your dream house is more of a nightmare.

Prewire for everything you can think of. At minimum, have them install conduit and outlet boxes so that you can pull cable (or have it pulled) for phone, network, cable TV, sattelite, speakers, whatever at a later date.

If they won't work with you....consider taking a pass on it. Houses are too expensive to not get what you want.

jimcol711

when building a home, id be much more concerned about the quality of the home than the size.

its you and your wife. 2700 sq. ft. is waaaaaaay more than enough, even if you plan a family. 2700 sq. ft. is a big fucking house. youd do much better to maximize the quality and the value of your investment if you looked at a smaller home (2000-2300 sq. ft. 4 bedroom) and spend the extra money on alllllll the ameneties you want.

another thing to remember as far as size goes and with a new home especially is that your basement will be PERFECT for finishing. a basement can give you easily another 1500 sq. ft. of liveable space. but you save that work for a few years down the road when its more financially prudent.

do you really think you need 2700 sq. ft.?? hell no. not even a family with 5 kids NEEDS that much space.


lets say you could have a bare bones, base-model everything home that was 2700 sq. ft. including a lot for 300k OR you could have a house with fantastic fixtures and materials, fancy lighting, fireplace, pristine landscaping, all the upgrades, etc for the same price and it was 2300 sq. ft....what do you think is the better choice?? obviously choice #2.

additionally, home #2 will increase in value faster than a bigger, plainer house.

jimcol711

scrib, i know i say alot of shit on this forum, but honestly, this is one subject where i know what im talking about for alot of reasons. residential architecture is my career and my side business (remodeling, home theater design, etc)

www.collinsHED.com

ive helped my parents through the process of building 2 homes in the last 4 years and i just bought my own first home (although its not new)

so if you dont want to listen to me, thats cool, but im just tryin to help

suXor

I use every inch of my 2710

dfreder371

Scrib: Go absolutely fucking nuts on the insulation, and watch the window count. A regular double hung window loses energy equivelent to knocking a hole in the wall the size of a house brick. I am not saying skimp on the glass area, but get good windows.

Insulation: Most builders install R-19, and r-19 is considered adequate if you live:

a: South of Miami,
b: South of Houston and
c: In San Diego.

You want at least R-38 in the attic (which will go up to your knees), but you want reasonably good insulation. At least this stuff is cheap, relatively speaking. But DO NOT use the blown in insullation made out of recycled newspapers. If you develop a roof leak and that stuff gets wet, it never dries out!

You also might want to slow down a bit. I know, this is like new car fever, but one approach could be (if you are the handy type) to get the cheapest, say, floor materials possible, and "mod" them up later after you see what is available.

I like hardwood floors. Real hardwood floors, not that Pergo shit. But think twice before putting any wood floor anywhere there is a possible water leak (kitchens, baths).

What I suggest you do before you decide is to visit as many model homes that are in your price range, and maybe up to twice your price range.

I bought my condo, 1,075 square feet in 97 for 113 large (with a one car garage) and am quite happy with it. All it has to do is accomidate me. Now worth $170,000. I have three sliding glass doors, and the other windows are all six feet tall.

However, there are condos down the street, within a mile, Yea, they start at $365,000, but they make my place look like a refigerator box. The kitchen tile, countertops and dining room floor are all the same and are very striking. But, $50 per sqft! There is $18,000 in tile just in these two rooms! (the tile changes color when hit by sunlight).

You thought you could spend money modding cars? HA! Get a house, and the work never stops.

When you get something, I would like to see it. We're close enough. Good luck, and good move. Now if we could get Nicky to do the same...

dfreder371

Scrib: And get used to this. I know, it sounds strange.

When it is 10 F in winter outside, you want it to be 10F when you stand in your attic, above the insulation...

Maybe someone else can explain this.

Ashburner

Everyone has different wants. My home I am building is 3,400 sq. ft. and it will be just me. 3 bedrooms, 3 1/2 baths. Fully upgraded including stainless steel GE Profile appliances, all granite, upgraded carpet, crown moulding in every room, surrond sound, gated community, and a fully landscaped front and back yard on nearly 1/2 acre.

Do I need that much space? No, but the chicks dig it

Scrib

OMG!!!

First, I was drunk at the Cub/Cardinals game yesterday and was out last night drinking, so I haven't been able to check in until just know.


Ashburner, CL P Diddy, chrisbpickering, greenmonster, chris3240929, Stock03CLS, Jim and Dave THANK YOU all very much for the wonderful and very insightful answers. This is exactly the type of conversation I was hoping for.

Here is one of the subdivisions we're thinking about:

Estates of Auburn Meadows

It's the Sumner design that we like the most. 2400sq ft. 4 bed, 2.5 baths. Plenty big. Nice secluded area. 1 mile from Lowes and Home Depot!!! :bubbarubb

Here's what the local paper has to say about the houses...

Click me


My wife works this weekend, but I'm going to go take a walk through the model, talk to some people and see what's up. Then next weekend, we'll both go over and take a walk through.



OK.. So back to the upgrades. I understand that we can sit down at the design center and see what it'll cost. But do builders have anything that you can take with, to sit down on your own time and look through? I don't want to feel pressured when we're sitting down with the designer and he/she is throwing numbers in our faces. I want to be able to think about all of this first and have ideas so when we go in, we're not wasting their time by thinking...


And Jim... No offense taken on your part. 2700sq ft. is a lot of house. No question. And this home would only be 2400sq ft. A bit smaller. But we do want a family, and the space would be oh so nice...

Keep the ideas and thoughts coming guys! I do appreciate it.

Eric

GreenMonster

Yep, I agree. There is no such thing as too much house. If you can afford it I say go all out.

I've only got 1200 sq. ft. and I find that I'm feeling really crowded lately. It's just me and my brother (he's helping pay the mortgage while he's in back in school ), in a three bedroom, but I need more room.

2300-2700 sounds great to me, but 3400 is pimp. Ashburner has got the right idea

dfreder371

Scrib: You're welcome from me. First thing you might want to do is go out and get pre qualified. I have a sterling credit record, but you can be suprised what one bounced check, innocently done even, can cost you, in the last three years or so.

Before you get your hopes up, make sure all the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed.

Scrib

Not worried about credit. My latest credit report yielded no red flags. And if for some reason we get turned down for the loan, we'd get all our deposit money back.






Appliances... This is my current list of appliances I'm going to need to buy on MY OWN.

Washer/Dryer --> $1000
Refrigerator --> $1000
Stove --> $600
Microwave --> $400
Lawnmower --> $500
Garage door opener --> $200

The house would come with a dishwasher, garbage disposal, A/C unit, furnace, hot water heater.

Any other MAJOR appliance that I'm missing?

jimcol711

woah woah woah...again, you are wasting money.

you can get every single thing listed in that list for HALF what you quoted.

what kind of appliances are you looking at?? i picked up a sweet ass maytag fridge with the fridge over the freezer, the freezer is a pull out drawer, its about 21 cu. ft. mint condition. it was a scratch/dent item (there is a dent on the BACK of the unit, obviously no one can see that!!) it lists for 1199, i paid 579!! seriously, be a little bit more frugal man, you can stretch your dollar alot further than you think....a microwave for 400?? you can get a damn nice one for 150 or less. washe/dryer?? who gives a fuck if those are brand new, i got a washer/dryer combo for 300 bucks!! and its industrial quality maytag stuff, only about 5 years old, shit runs and looks perfect!! stoves are expensive, you are on the ball there i think. i payed about 600 for my new gas stove, its a really nice black one, natural gas, all the bells/whistles. that was about 630 i beleive.


not so much other appliances you need, but alot of other shit...

weed wacker
snowblower
rakes
brooms
sprinklers
shovels
gardening tools
grill
patio furniture
hoses
a ladder
large garbage cans
shelving units for garage/basement
misc tools (saws, drills, wrenches, sockets, drivers, etc)


that is all shit i just had to buy for my house. shit i didnt have due to living in an apartment for years. im sure you dont have most of that shit either cuz you have a condo.

Good Ride

First -- congrats on taking the step into being a home owner! It takes your mind off cars, and everything else! I've never bought a new house but I've done two remodels. Main things I've learned:

1. Try to walk the house when it's being built every damn day! It's amazing how much they miss or screw up on. I know it's different with new construction, but it happens.

2. Without going nuts, more space is always good.

3. Pay a lot of attention to the design of cabinets and storage areas. You can probably get some good custom work done when you build at a decent price.

4. Light. This is personal, but I hate dark houses. Think through the orientation of the house and the sun in different seasons. Builders usually have cookie cutter designs that aren't really tailored to the orientation of your lot. There may be some mods you can do with window placements, and especially sky lights. Cheap when you're building, really expensive later.

Gool luck!

Scrib

Jim - Those were budgeted numbers, not actual. Should have clarified.

If it does truly cost half, I'll be tickled.

Scrib

Surprisingly, I do have a lot of that shit. But you're right... The little, almost misc. crap will add up quick.

Stock03CLS

Seriously think about buying the appliances yourself. Builders will always up-charge you for that stuff. Add $50 for home delivery/installation and you're still probably ahead of where a builder will be. At least compare the prices.

Scrib

Oh absolutely... The appliances I named are ones I'm going to buy.

Good Ride

And a good security system.

dfreder371

Scrib: If I was doing a build, here is one thing I would look into and it shouldn't cost too much.

I absolutely hate stepping out of a nice hot shower onto a cold tile bathroom floor. The do make electrically heated ceramic tile floors for the bathroom. Check it out, and let me know what you think. Shouldn't cost much, as bathrooms are small.

synth19

damn that's pimp.

hotelniko14

I had a house build in Briar Creek with Precision Builders in 98, they did a fabulous job. That house was great, too bad had to move to LA.

MJMeucci

Scrib: I know this may not be the most helpful but when looking for washers and dryers look at the front loaders. WE built our house 6 years ago and just recently replaced our top loaders with maytag neptune front loaders. They are amazingly quiet and save lots of water.

Also, I cannot stress enough, point out mistakes, if it doesn't look right it probably isnt. Don't be afraid to tell contractors that they did something wrong, or is doesn't look good. You will be happy you did. Our bigggest problem was shitty contractors. We had a great builder but he contracted work to people who did not know much about what they were doing. After they put our wood floor in we looked at it and it was horrible. We made the builder hire a new contractor and tear up the whole floor and make it right.

The builder must have hated us by the time we finished building, but the end result is amazing.

Oh and about space, the basement is a great idea, whe recently finished ours and it increased the size of our house from 4000 sq feet to 5500. Space is a good thing. Also a 3 car carage is nice if you have the option. For years we used it to store equipment but now we use it for another car.