Doom878

Were you able to hit parallel on your squat without pain? Smart move lowering the weight since you are tinkering anyways.

oo7spy

Ian, if you are just sore, you should push through it. Continue to work those muscles and you will work the lactic acid out of them. If you are cramping, electrolytes will help.

Obviously, you don't want to push the limits, or you risk injury. But you need to keep those muscles working.

Doom878

Need deadlifting tips. This guy is sooo good. I had to do 5x10 yesterday and my back was already friend from squats. Tight lats, shoulder over the bar, make love to the bar

Rapture

Yeah but it was kind of useless. as soon as I hit parallel it would hurt like the motherest of fsckers. I mostly just had to do light weights + high reps. Mostly stuck to lunges.

However in the time since I posted that last message I had another leg day. Hit a small PR on the squat and now my glutes are killing me. Yay!

Doom878

Where's it hurting when you hit parallel? Your knees? FYI PR's don't count for quarter squats

Rapture

You mean my hip flexors? Right about here:

http://www.sports-injury-info.com/im...hip-flexor.jpg

Maybe a little more towards the front of the thigh.

Rapture

^crap, forgot to put that in img tags.

Doom878

You had mentioned knees before so I didn't know your hip flexors hurt?

Try this warmup. Also swing your legs forward and back. The movement forward will loosen the hammies and the movement backward will stretch your hip flexors.


Do you have a foam roller? Not sure how hold you are but more shit gets sore as we get older. Sometimes I have to roll between every set.

And a nasty warmup but super time consuming but you can pull ideas

Devil Dog 21

My favorite for breaking up tight hips is the couch stretch: Couch Stretch: Small, But Important Ways You're Doing It Wrong | Breaking Muscle

Doom878

Of course they use the hipster guy with the haircut and bushy beard

Rapture

Yeah I'm not 100% it's the hip flexors sometimes. Well, maybe one of those muscles in that group. I can get a good stretch when I do a quad stretch for some reason.

Also since we're hopefully still on a new thread-hijacked-topic of proper form, how do you guys do bench presses? Specifically, how does the bar sit in your hands? Do you do knuckles-up/knuckles forward? I've been doing that lately but it feels uneasy since the bar mostly rests just barely above my wrist.

The bar feels like it's sitting right about here:
svr6CYr.png
except of course I hook my thumb around the bar when I'm lifting. Is that normal? Should I nix knuckles-forward altogether?

Doom878

Yeah this turned into the how do I lift thread, which I'm fine with because it's been informative and we don't have a current running thread in the complex activity of lifting weights.

I have a squat clip from the front where you can see how my legs open and posture is. Let me know and I can post it as it might help you out.

Everything and anything I read about bench press grip is to hold it as tight as possible. It will make it easier but also you won't hurt your wrists. I've seen guys wear wrist straps for heavy lifts so not to fuck up their wrists. You can't squeeze it tight if you have an open grip. You can roll that shit off and snap city.

Rapture

Well I mean do you guys do knuckles-forward as though you're throwing a punch, or something more like this?



Kind of rolling your hand back like that so it rests moreso in the pad of the palm? Except of course unlike that picture you would hook your thumb around so you won't risk dropping the bar on your neck! Arnold...

Doom878

Yeah Arnold's doing open grip. Dangerous af

Devil Dog 21

I benched for a long time using the grip that Arnold is using the in the above picture. I switched a couple years ago at the recommendation of my weightlifting coach but it wasn't for safety reasons. Both feel good to me and neither felt sketchy but I'd recommend using what's comfortable.

Doom878

I agree. Go with what feels good but he was complaining about uneasiness.

Devil Dog 21

I should have been more specific. What feels good both physically and mentally. Going to be hard to really push yourself to go heavier or for another rep if you feel mentally uneasy about your grip.

jtech316

Man, I really need to work on my squats and deadlifts.

Doom878

This week was 5 sets of 8 of squats for 75% of your max once on Monday and once on Thursday. Of the possilbe 80 reps I only got 66 and my knee is feeling some tendinitis. I don't think I'll ever try that again. When I had to do 5x10 of 70% of my max twice in a week, I cut the weight. Same with my bench. My shoulder starts hurting if I do too many reps but I lowered the weight under the 75% requirement because I don't have the endurance to do 5x8 of my max. Had I been able to I'd probably sustain shoulder tenderness as well. Sucks getting old man.

jtech316

man, it definitely does suck getting old. I don't try to go crazy heavy like i used too. I have tendinitis in my right elbow that kills me.

Doom878

I was curious how my form looked for squats. Shot a video and took this screenshot. On my first rep I slapped the safety pins but fortunately I didn't eat it.

Screenshot_2016-04-19-08-08-07 by Doom878, on Flickr

imj0257

iTrader: (1)

I see more girls' asses than your form

oo7spy

Holy hell that's low. I thought parallel to the ground was the target.

Doom878

I agree. The group behind me had a girl in there with really short shorts and really really nice muscular (not roided) legs.

The hip crease to the top of the knee is the line that must be parallel to the ground. Many believe the ass is what determines parallel but it's not. I think I'm right under parallel.

oo7spy

I always thought it was the bottom of the thigh, but you are right, it's the top. In any case, you're a solid 1-2" below that. Which isn't necessarily bad...

Doom878

Believe it or not, I didn't necessarily go for that extra depth or anything. Mind you, I'm the least flexible guy. For whatever reason that depth allows me to squat pain free and "bounce" back up with good form. The key is opening my knees on the way down and bracing my gut while exhaling on the way up.

imj0257

iTrader: (1)

I've been going to the gym here at work, after work, about twice a week, once for upper body once for lower body. I feel like I'm passed that stage where it burns for a week after working out since I'm back in the groove, kinda. I just hate how it is a small gym and it can get crowded... oh well, it's free.

Doom878

Doom878

Was working out with a random doing squats last night. Nice guy, pretty cool. Told me he wants to get his depth lower since he saw me squat. Proceeds to throw on heavy weight 1 plate, 2, 3, 4 done. He was complaining about his form and wearing knee wraps I told him to relax with the weight. Nice guy but in one ear out the other. His depth was a little high and it looked painful. Let's see which gives first, his ego or his knees.

imj0257

iTrader: (1)

Speaking of squats.. I did another leg workout yesterday.

One thing that is very apparent to me is that working out with dumbbells instead of the squat machine is that my form is much better. Yes, I'm using considerably less weight, but IMO the squat rack bar 1) hurts like fuck on my back, towel/rubber pad or no towel/rubber pad and 2) just the total weight doesn't allow me to have proper form.

Granted, I have chickenish legs so I can't squat that much weight anyways. But I am definitely preferring using the dumbbells rather than the squat rack.

Devil Dog 21

You have a full video from the side of your squat?

Did you build up to the 5x8 @ 75% or is that the beginning of the program? Most every great squat program I've followed started with lower % and built up to the goal week by week.

Doom878

Yes squatting with db's is definitely less painful because of not resting the bar on your back. However the bar squat is much more effective as the extra weight demands more from your quads, glutes, core, etc. Don't use the towel or tampon pad. Learn to rest the bar on your traps. After initial discomfort, you'll get used to it.

You say you're on a squat machine? A smith machine? Sometimes these devices screw up your form because it forces a particular movement. Yes the bar should go up and down but these machines can cause irregular movement and lead to injury. Plus it takes away the core work.

Remember you can also focus on front squats as well as deads to build your lower body. Back squat is one of the best but not necessarily 1000% required.

Here's the video. Yeah the 2nd rep not as clunky :


As for my workout:

Test Maxes
Week 1 3x10 70% of max
Monday/Thursday Squat and Deadlift
Tuesday/Friday Bench, Bar Row, OHP

Week 2 4x10 70% of max
same

Week 3 5x10 70% of max

Week 4 3x8 75% of max.....Then each week add a set

Week 7 3x5 80% of max....Then each week add a set

Week 10 3x3 85% of max

Week 11 3x1 90% of max Monday/Tuesday....Re-Test Max Wednesday/Thursday

Week 12 Deload 3x5 50% of max

Devil Dog 21

Movement pattern looks good from this angle but looks like maybe a slight butt wink which can cause some lower back pain over time. Knees aren't driving excessively forward to cause a quad tendon issue so that really just leaves volume of training as the answer. The best squat program I've ever followed is the Texas Method. When combined with accessory work specific to your weaknesses (mine was posterior chain) you'll see incredible strength gains that are retained and not just a one time peak.

https://www.t-nation.com/training/texas-method

Doom878

Thanks for checking it out. What's the best way to avoid it? I have to remind myself to brace my gut before each rep. And yeah before I fixed my squat I would lean a little forward and my right knee would start to twinge. Now I lift pain free except for the back soreness.

I read your link about the Texas method just now. I watched a video on it last night as well. Jesus so many variations of it but I get the gist of it. My only concern is that at the moment I can consistently train M,T,Th and maybe every other Friday. Weekends are a no go as well. My scheduling might change for the summer where I can go MWF. Let me ask you a few questions:

- Any way to vary given my schedule? I don't think the Monday to Wednesday changing to Tuesday is a good idea. No recovery time.

- In the article he mentions about a young man. Is this ok for a natural lifter in their late 30's?

- I'm concerned about the volume. I know 5*5 is still a fair amount of volume but since it's only once a week will I only see strength gains and not physical (looks) gains?

- Please expand more on the results you've personally seen both weight and looks and for anyone else you know doing it. I am assuming you also added a CF component given your ownership in a gym.

Thanks again!

Devil Dog 21

A 'butt wink' typically can come from several different things, not keeping a tight core during your squat is one so it's great that you've addressed that. Not activating your glutes and hamstrings, tight hamstrings, and limited ankle mobility are the others. If after squat days your quads are super sore and not your glutes then you know you're squatting incorrectly. Obviously you'll know if you have tight hamstrings, and if you do I don't recommend doing a ton of stretching before squatting, rather I'd recommend a longer more dynamic warm up. Lastly ankle mobility which I don't see all that often as a cause but it can me. Here's a good video to show you how to test your ankle mobility:
I'd recommend waiting until you can keep to a one day on one day off schedule to start the Texas Method. The middle day (Wed) can change from time to time since it's primarily a speed and active recovery day but I wouldn't make it an every week change.

I'll be 34 and have done Smolov's squat program twice which is more of a peaking program and it beat me up. When I did the Texas Method I went from a max of 335lbs to hitting 330lbs for 5 reps with no belt, no knee wraps and completely pain free. I started when I had wrist surgery and spent a solid amount of time not doing any other lifts but really focusing on accessory work such has glute activation drills, box jumps, depth jumps, banded marches, banded good mornings, and a host of other things I could do without use of 1 arm.

The volume isn't really bad. As the percentages increase over several weeks Monday's 5x5 become brutally tough, but with proper mechanics there's isn't injury pain, just gain pain
The middle day is easy outside of working through Monday's soreness, but it's a lot of speed work, box squats, and explosive drills which is great for addressing specific weaknesses you might have.
The high intensity day, or Friday is a blast towards the end when you're hitting near old 1 rep maxes for multiple reps and you leave the gym knowing next week you can do more. So long story short, Monday's were tough, but that day lays the ground work for Friday so take it serious as you can and you'll see pretty significant jumps.

I didn't really add any CF to the program because of my wrist. Each Monday I'd do 400 meters of unbroken lunges to finish my training session. If you don't do a ton of lunges then start with 200 meters and add 100 each week until you're up to 400.

For my results, I finished at a 350 back squat which is pretty good for a 160lbs body weight. My legs are noticeably bigger than they were as are my glutes and hamstrings. My wife love it and insists on me wearing shorts above the knee so she can see quads By no means do I look like some body builder but she notices as do I so that's all that matters. My weightlifting coach did the program with me and he went from 350 - 375, and we've both kept our strength even out of the program to where we regularly hit 5x5's at 300 plus pounds still while training all of our lifts (Snatch and Clean and Jerk).
Without front squatting because of my wrist this program shot my front squat from 280 to 295 and my overhead squat from 205 to 225. My jerk went from 265 - 275, and I haven't tested a new one rep on my lifts, but my old max of a 260 clean I just hit for 2 yesterday.

Sorry for the long winded response!

Doom878

Long winded? I want moarrrr!!!!!

Ok so your quads grew and I see you're adding drills on top of that I'm assuming for fitness goals. How did the rest of your body composition change/maintain? I noticed that the volume weeks of this routine made me look leaner. And since I started this routine about 8 weeks ago, I haven't done any accessory work nor cardio. Just the 5 big lifts. Obviously the reps volume wise are more than the Texas' volume but I have to test if that extra work is necessary. Texas Method believes sets at 5 is optimal for strength and volume gains.

Has your wrist recovered where you can do upper body?

Are you still doing Texas? Sorry if I missed that

How long does your routine take?

Tell me about your warmups. I feel sluggish and I do warm up. Like if I'm building to my 5x5 285 squat work set, I start:

25# front squat x8
Rear Bar squat x8
135# x8
185# x6
225# x5

Devil Dog 21

Prior to my surgery I was doing a very high volume programming for a major crossfit competition so naturally when I dialed back the volume and only squatted post surgery I gained some weight. As you go through any medium to high volume squat program you should see a better body composition since it's largest muscle group in the body and requires a ton of calories to consistently exert max effort.

My wrist has recovered and I'm fully switched from CrossFit to Olympic Weightlifting. Golf is my other hobby and the one that put the most strain and continues to put the most strain on my wrist. Any time I play I get sore in my forearm but when I lift everything feels great.

I'm not doing Texas anymore but my current program is built around similar philosophies but specialized for weightlifting. My goal is clean and jerk 275 and snatch 225 lbs while weighing 151 which I think can be done by end of the year. If I can do that successfully then as a Masters athlete (age 35) I would qualify for the American Open and be in the top of lifters in my weight class.

Warms up and routine.....so my warm up typically takes 30-45 minutes and includes foam rolling and lacross balling any sore spot or target areas to prepare for the day's programming. So if I'm doing a lot of cleans I'll spend extra time on my triceps and lats to help get into a solid front rack position. I do several dynamic leg movements, high knees, butt kicks, 20-30" box jumps, and try to work up a light sweat. Then I make sure my hips and back are lose by doing cobras, scorpions, and couch stretch although I make sure I don't do do much stretch and hold. When I'm finished I'll dive into my program for the day which can be something like this:

Clean from the Blocks
Find your 2 rep max clean then 2x2 @ 92% and 2x2 @ 87%
3x10 Barbell split jerks
Build to 90% of your 1 rep max for 2 - 60%x2, 70%x2, 80%x2, 90%x2
Accessory Work
BB Hip Thrusters 3x8
Seated banded leg extensions 50 per leg
Good mornings 3x8
Conditioning - 4 rounds of 500 meter Row and 15 burpess over the erg

When the day is all heavy weights like this day was I'll take a couple hours plus the warm up time.

Doom878

Yeah Texas would actually reduce my volume in all the lifts including squats thus my concern for my body comp. It sounds like another method to get me stronger and I was more curious how long a Texas routine took. That weightlifting routine looks insane! What's over the erg mean? It looks like between rowing sets you do 15 burpees? That was something I had incorporated when I was still doing a bro split (each muscle once a week) and had good results. I plan to get on that after I finish this cycle.

Devil Dog 21

If you add the accessory work and a longer dynamic warm up I think you'll make up for the decline in squatting volume while also saving your body from the volume. For several years I neglected accessory work because I didn't believe things like a bunch of banded good mornings would make a big difference but boy was I wrong!

Over the erg is where you jump over the back of the rower after each burpee. I try to do a little conditioning because I love CrossFit competitions, but not so much that I sacrifice the mission of making it to the American Open.

Doom878

Here's a video from last night with a better angle. 315x3 felt a LOT easier with the routine I'm nearly wrapping up. Plus I deadlifted 405x4. Could've gone for 5 but didn't want to get injured for Disney this week