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So...f*ck you, supplements! (What happens beyond the hype)

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So...f*ck you, supplements! (What happens beyond the hype)

Old 12-27-2013, 05:25 PM
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bump for questions answered!
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Old 01-10-2014, 02:50 AM
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^same here

Has any thought been given as to HOW you should eat? I mean specifically I've read that it's bad to mix up starchy carbs + protein (especially animal protein) since they both require opposing enzymes from your digestive system in order to be digested and properly metabolized. If mixed, they "cancel" each other out, so to speak. Also I've read (from a different source) that consuming protein immediately following a workout isn't 100% necessary -- muscles don't require protein until several hours after a workout. Is there any truth to this?
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Old 01-10-2014, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
^same here

Has any thought been given as to HOW you should eat? I mean specifically I've read that it's bad to mix up starchy carbs + protein (especially animal protein) since they both require opposing enzymes from your digestive system in order to be digested and properly metabolized. If mixed, they "cancel" each other out, so to speak. Also I've read (from a different source) that consuming protein immediately following a workout isn't 100% necessary -- muscles don't require protein until several hours after a workout. Is there any truth to this?
My advice regarding protein consumption would be to make sure you get 20g or more as soon as you're done with your workout. The body is constantly repairing itself so as soon as you tear down your muscle fibers from a good workout the body will begin repairing those fibers which makes them grow back stronger. By not providing the fuel (protein) needed to repair those muscles you're delaying the recovery process. Some people will consume protein prior to a workout so that from the very first rep their body has the fuel needed for recovery, however I believe the energy required to break down the protein takes too much away from your workout.

When in doubt, consume your protein throughout the day in lean sources supplemented with a good complex carbohydrate (sweet potatoes, vegetables, etc).
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Old 01-10-2014, 10:01 AM
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Old 01-11-2014, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Devil Dog 21 View Post
My advice regarding protein consumption would be to make sure you get 20g or more as soon as you're done with your workout. The body is constantly repairing itself so as soon as you tear down your muscle fibers from a good workout the body will begin repairing those fibers which makes them grow back stronger. By not providing the fuel (protein) needed to repair those muscles you're delaying the recovery process. Some people will consume protein prior to a workout so that from the very first rep their body has the fuel needed for recovery, however I believe the energy required to break down the protein takes too much away from your workout.

When in doubt, consume your protein throughout the day in lean sources supplemented with a good complex carbohydrate (sweet potatoes, vegetables, etc).
Yeah, I understand all that. I was moreso wondering about how you should take in protein, carbs, and fats in the hours to come after a workout. I do my workouts in the morning so I have at least 12 hours of food consumption to consider. I mean, does your body's need for protein really skyrocket 7+ hours after a workout? Or is it just constant throughout the day?

I'm just wondering if there's more to consider as far as how you should eat. Is there more to it all than just simply "take in a steady amount of protein, carbs, and fats throughout the day" ? Especially considering what I've been reading about consuming protein + starchy carbs..
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Old 01-13-2014, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
Yeah, I understand all that. I was moreso wondering about how you should take in protein, carbs, and fats in the hours to come after a workout. I do my workouts in the morning so I have at least 12 hours of food consumption to consider. I mean, does your body's need for protein really skyrocket 7+ hours after a workout? Or is it just constant throughout the day?

I'm just wondering if there's more to consider as far as how you should eat. Is there more to it all than just simply "take in a steady amount of protein, carbs, and fats throughout the day" ? Especially considering what I've been reading about consuming protein + starchy carbs..
It depends on what your goals are and your activity level. I follow a site called Eat To Perform (Not affiliated with them outside of being a member); and they educate about consuming food based around the times you train and your specific goals, not limiting carbs and providing plenty of fuel for your body to gain muscle while not piling on fat. I consume roughly 80% of my carbs in the evening as close to bed as possible and train fasted at 5:15AM. My protein consumption is spread out throughout the day which to constantly feed my muscles and help with the recovery process. Ever since I started this back in June 2013 I've gotten significantly stronger and still have low enough body fat to see my abs.
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Old 01-14-2014, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Devil Dog 21 View Post
I consume roughly 80% of my carbs in the evening as close to bed as possible

That's another thing I was wondering about. I've heard both good and bad things about carbs so close to bedtime.
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Old 01-14-2014, 05:30 AM
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i wish my schedule wasnt so awkwardly variable and chaotic... makes this all so difficult, especially the all nighters i have to pull, definitely wreaks havoc on my body. i've been up for nearly 24 hours, have to be up till atleast 10pm tonight, and then back up by 6am. congrats on you though, im all for minimizing supplements, it can all be found in food, the right food
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:56 AM
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
That's another thing I was wondering about. I've heard both good and bad things about carbs so close to bedtime.
For the majority of people who do a low intensity workout once a day at random times and consume a fair amount of carbs during the day, eating more right before bed is not ideal and will likely lead to weight gain. If you're a person with a set schedule and fairly consistent workout times, and you have some goals in the gym like bigger lifts, faster run times or anything besides doing the same routine just to burn some calories; then this allows you to do a smaller scaled version of carb loading like runners do before a race.

Since I started I went from a 270 lbs back squat to 305 lbs (full depth - hip crease below the knee crease, none of this barely parallel crap), and a 325 deadlift to 410 in 6 months. I also went from weighing 170 lbs to 158 in the same time period.
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by PyroDave View Post
i wish my schedule wasnt so awkwardly variable and chaotic... makes this all so difficult, especially the all nighters i have to pull, definitely wreaks havoc on my body. i've been up for nearly 24 hours, have to be up till atleast 10pm tonight, and then back up by 6am. congrats on you though, im all for minimizing supplements, it can all be found in food, the right food
The best advice I can give you would be to try cooking enough meals for 2-3 days at a time and find some good healthy snacks. Also, if you can find a good 24 hour gym close to home that you can get in short 20-30 minute workouts in that would be a big plus. 3 workouts a week and healthy snacks versus that crap that most of us snack on when we're busy will make a huge difference.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:21 PM
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Below parallel squats
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Old 10-24-2014, 02:09 PM
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Regarding your post about cayenne pepper, do you buy it whole and grind it yourself?
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Old 10-24-2014, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by akplaya92 View Post
Regarding your post about cayenne pepper, do you buy it whole and grind it yourself?
Buy whole. I use a 90k HU potency and will bump to 160k once I finish this off.

I am also experimenting with colloidal gold and silver now.
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Old 11-29-2014, 07:16 PM
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Vitamin D is one to get, IMO. Naturally most people don't get enough of it, specially if you live in the North and don't walk outside naked.

I also use Turmeric in both capsules and spices (with black pepper). My memory improved substantially with it.

Also daily capsules of fish oil, vitamin C, vitamin E and an half of an aspirine daily.

I use resveratrol (extract of red wine), but I have not much to substantiate a real benefit.

I restrict permanently my calories and I keep my proteins low. I trust plant-based diet, but I am not going there 100%. I eat a lot of vegetables (including raw garlic).

Yeah I must be some kind of supplement freak. Yet going to 48 and doing all this for years, my blood pressure is one of a teenager at 109/70, so is the appearance of my body and my skin is great, so I'll continue.
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Old 11-30-2014, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
I trust plant-based diet, but I am not going there 100%.
I will be heading in the same direction in due time...I just haven't put forth sufficient effort in to researching how to diversify my plate well enough yet

Any pointers?
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Old 12-01-2014, 07:10 AM
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I live in Miami and still take Vitamin D. It's not like I'm a lifeguard or in construction outside all day.
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Old 12-03-2014, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DeathMetal View Post
I will be heading in the same direction in due time...I just haven't put forth sufficient effort in to researching how to diversify my plate well enough yet

Any pointers?
Well there are many but nutritionfacts.org on youtube is credible, IMO.

BTW, I started using cayenne pepper supplements since a few days. Either I am hallucinating or I can feel a difference in energy.
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Old 01-04-2015, 06:36 PM
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What herbs and spices do you use in your meals to make them taste better?
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Old 02-05-2015, 10:08 AM
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GNC, Target, Wal-Mart, Walgreens accused of selling adulterated ?herbals? - The Washington Post

A warning to herbal supplement users: Those store-brand ginkgo biloba tablets you bought may contain mustard, wheat, radish and other substances decidedly non-herbal in nature, but they’re not likely to contain any actual ginkgo biloba.

That’s according to an investigation by the New York State attorney general’s office into store-brand supplements at four national retailers — GNC, Target, Walgreens and Wal-Mart. All four have received cease-and-desist letters demanding that they stop selling a number of their dietary supplements, few of which were found to contain the herbs shown on their labels and many of which included potential allergens not identified in the ingredients list.

“Contamination, substitution and falsely labeling herbal products constitute deceptive business practices and, more importantly, present considerable health risks for consumers,” said the letters, first reported today by the New York Times.

The tests were conducted using a process called DNA barcoding, which identifies individual ingredients through a kind of “genetic fingerprinting.” The investigators tested 24 products claiming to be seven different types of herb — echinacea, garlic, gingko biloba, ginseng, saw palmetto, St. John’s wort and valerian root. All but five of the products contained DNA that was either unrecognizable or from a plant other than what the product claimed to be.

Additionally, five of the 24 contained wheat and two contained beans without identifying them on the labels — both substances are known to cause allergic reactions in some people.

[How a fake doctor made millions from ‘the Dr. Oz Effect’ and a bogus weight-loss supplement]

Of the four retailers, Wal-Mart was the worst offender: None of its six supplements that were tested was found to contain purely the ingredient advertised. Target’s supplements were the least misleading of the lot — though that isn’t saying much, since tests on six of the brand’s products resulted in only one unqualified positive. Two of Target’s other supplements contained DNA from other plants alongside their purported ingredients, while the remaining three tested negative.

Harvard Medical School assistant professor Pieter Cohen, who is an expert on supplement safety, told the New York Times that the test results were so extreme he found them hard to accept. He suggested that the manufacturing process may have destroyed some of the ingredients’ DNA, rendering the DNA barcode test ineffective.
Advertisement



On the other hand, he said, “if this data is accurate, then it is an unbelievably devastating indictment of the industry.”

This investigation is just the latest in a series of blows against the dietary supplement industry. Supplements are not considered food or drugs, so they have long been only loosely regulated. Federal guidelines require companies to ensure that their products are safe and accurately labeled, but the FDA has little power to enforce that rule.

[Half of Dr. Oz’s medical advice is baseless or wrong, study says]

A 2012 paper published in the Journal of the American Medical Association warned that this lack of regulation of the supplement industry could lead to “adverse events.” In the past five years, tainted supplements have been associated with kidney failure, hepatitis and other problems.


Ginkgo biloba capsules. (Joe Raedle/Getty Images)

Also in 2012, the Department of Health and Human Services released a report saying that supplements’ claims about their structure and function often lack scientific support. HHS recommended that the FDA seek “explicit statutory authority to review substantiation for structure/function claims” — essentially, it should subject the health claims made by supplement manufacturers to the same kind of scrutiny that drugs must undergo.

The New York attorney general’s letters also cited a 2013 Canadian study of 44 common supplements, in which one-third of herbal supplements that were tested contained no trace of the plant advertised on the bottle.

The Canadian study “alerted the dietary supplement industry to the fact that it is not providing the public with authentic products without substitution, contamination or fillers. It is disappointing that over a year later the attorney general’s researcher reached similar conclusions,” the letters chastised, sounding like a frustrated parent.

In response to the findings, Walgreens told the New York Times that it would remove the offending products from its shelves nationwide, while spokesmen for Wal-Mart and GNC both said that the companies would respond “appropriately.” Target did not respond to requests for comment.

The study was prompted by a Times article that raised questions about the supplements.
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:53 PM
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^ read that myself earlier. I really only take multi-v's and fish oil and while I do feel like I'm getting a benefit (skin and hair have improved, sleep more soundly, more energy throughout the day) I do wonder (and hope..) there's a way to verify it does contain all of what it says it contains. Like if there was a 3rd party, similar to the article.

That way you know you're getting more than powdered rice.
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:10 AM
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^ I take the same. Multi, D, C, Fish oil. We need a legit watchdog.
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Old 02-13-2015, 08:02 AM
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This is funny

Alan Thrall's Supplement Stack

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...AsVYTq5mBjIHdg

BTW this guy has EXCELLENT lifting form videos. Helped with my squat, front squat, and overhead press.
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Old 03-16-2015, 09:03 PM
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Lawsuits Say Protein Powders Lack Protein, Ripping Off Athletes - Forbes

That's it guys. None of these can be trusted anymore. The only one I've read that did have the protein it said was Optimum Nutrition.

..

So I guess ON can be trusted. Carry on.
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Old 03-17-2015, 06:58 AM
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I like reviews from this site https://labdoor.com/how-labdoor-test...ry-supplements They send the samples to the FDA to measure content. They actually rated ON pretty well and I also liked the tropical punch flavored whey. I'm using Isopure now which is also rated pretty high but a little pricier.
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Old 03-18-2015, 03:16 PM
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^ Thanks for that!

Sadly they don't have Vitamin Shoppe/Bodytech protein powder. That's the stuff I usually get. BOGO half off twice a year, get 20 lbs of protein powder for $150. Sadly it's not listed on that site. Can't find any other 3rd party site that rates it.

But again I heard Bodytech pro 24 is a ripoff of ON gold standard formula...
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Old 03-18-2015, 03:22 PM
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wait, isnt the premise of this thread to F*CK supplements?

real food or GTFO!
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Old 03-18-2015, 04:13 PM
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Honestly I'd go 100% food if I could, but a post-workout protein shake is too convenient.

but yeah you're right
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Old 03-18-2015, 04:40 PM
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^not hating nor trying to derail the convo ya'll had going on.

but with the studies that both of you provided reinforces deathmetals thread!
when I worked at a gym, those two products; the ISOpure and the ON whey products were my go-to's.
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Old 03-19-2015, 07:09 AM
  #70  
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Yes I have foregone BCAA's, Fish oil, Vitamin C, and have focused more on diet. I lift heavy and do high intensity cardio after so the meals after are when I usually eat my carbs for the day. Typically any meals before my workouts (bfast, lunch) I try not to eat too much bread. I'm still getting stronger with improving cardio sessions so I'll stick to Isopure, Vitamin D, and a multi till I hit a rut. And if I even hit a rut, I'd probably alter the workout before adding supps.
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