KCPreki11

So you consider whey protein anc creatine cheating? They are both outside agents, while produced in your body, that you consume in order to build more mass. Test is the same way.

phile

It's not ignorance, it's proven science that steroids do harm. Why do you think they're illegal?!

Adam_Schwartz

I think you are mis-interpretting "outiside agents". Why don't we go ahead and group steroids into the same category as sweet potatoes and chicken? Both are critical to gaining mass, right?

KCPreki11

Let's not be dumb now. Here i'll even group them for you.

Supplements include Creatine, Whey Protein

Foods include Sweet Potatoes and Chicken.

KCPreki11

No one argued that they have no negative effects.

I agree w/ you though, it's not ignorance, more like mis-informed.

Adam_Schwartz

I am not sure I buy this - people who choose to use aas are obviously different than me in terms of how they view their bodies. They choose to look like something they weren't naturally intended to, and by natural I mean lifting hard and eating cleanly. I am not saying they are bad or evil people. But they are willing to introduce something into their body that can cause them harm simply to add extra mass that they weren't intended to have in the first place. I would bet that most people that take aas would be plenty strong and big without them, but they choose to keep going. I like to be strong, but I won't compromise my health to get stronger than I can naturally. That's just my take - I am sure people who take roids and take them "safely" would think someone like me is a dolt for NOT take roids to get bigger and stronger.

Just as an aside, when I see people like Ronnie Coleman or Cutler, I know those dudes had to work hard to look like that, but they also wouldn't look like that WITHOUT aas. That is a fact. The way they look is unnatural and grotesque to me. But it's just the way I view roids - they are taken by people who are obsessed and want more than they can have otherwise, which in the end is their choice.

Adam_Schwartz

I honestly don't take creatine - why? Because I don't know what the long-term effects are on my body from taking relatively large doses of creatine. If someone takes it, then that is their prerogative. But I won't advocate it. I have read enough studies on creatine to know that the effects are typically mediocre at best, so I cannot justify taking it even if I knew it was 100% safe for me.

Whey protein is merely a fast absorbtion protein, but in the end it is exactly that - PROTEIN, nothing more, nothing less. I wouldn't group whey anywhere near aas. We could go ahead and group Metrx and GROW with aas by that argument. On a similar note, flax seed oil is a supplement, as are mutli-vitamins, but those are not in the same ballpark, much less same sport, as roids are.

KCPreki11

I agree, I would never want to be nearly as big as Coleman or Cutler, but I respect what they have done.

Adam_Schwartz

I can respect them for their hard work because they got like that through some hard lifting and dedication. One thing I cannot get past is that they are viewed by many as the apex of what a perfect human body should look like.

What it boils down to is that we are all serious about lifting and have different ideologies about how it should be done.

bryanz3.0cl

cigarettes are dangerous, tylenol does proven damage to your liver, peanuts can kill people who are allergic, are they illegal.

im going to lift

phile

LOL, I had a feeling you'd bring that into the argument.

Do you know it has taken over 30 years for research to prove that cigarettes cause cancer? It's only been recently that the causality was established. The cigarette companies are not going down without a fight. Moral of the story? That's why they're not illegal...

As for the other things, come on....everything has side effects. The difference between those and steroids is that steroids can hurt you so much easier. Who out there knowingly eat peanuts if they know they're fatally allergic to it? Yet, how many people take steroids, with the knowledge that there would be harmful effects?

Chopsie

that is all.

Adam_Schwartz

OK, allow me to ask this question. During your lifting career, so to speak, can we assume that you reached the maximum gains you could without the use of steroids before taking aas? I would assume that someone wouldn't truly want to resort to steroids until they had completely exhausted the possibility that they were done achieving gains naturally.

vansonrider

First off roids don’t make you a bad person. I have never touched them nor do I intend to. I don’t even smoke or drink and never have. We all have our genetic limitations and aas will drive you well past that. I worked many years as a male stripper and I was one of only two guys who didn’t touch the juice in our club. Women wanted to see guys with muscles and that was the bottom line in the profession. I must honestly say that most of those guys were not the brightest. They did workout hard but they didn’t watch what they ate as closely as I did. I was never able to compete in the size category with them because I didn’t have their little advantage. Well I would call it little. AAS were easy to come by living in Texas. Just drive across the border and pick your poison. As far as the road rage not all the guys I worked with had this problem. I did see guys get huge fast and leave me in the dust. The thing I had going for me was I was ripped to the bone. Some off these guys had boils on their backs the size of dimes and some had skin that was ok. Some of the got really bad Gynecomastia, or "bitch tits," but most of them didn’t because they used other drugs to counter act that. Don’t take a chance with the side affects.

It’s funny how these top bodybuilders preach the life of health and fitness and the are all on the juice. If they are a Professional Bodybuilder they are roid out. Yes they bust there assess but come they are not natural. When I competed in powerlifiting we had the types of competitors.

Regular= probably on roids.
Natural= Have not taken roids in the last year.
And Pure= Never touched the stuff. Me

The pure guys were never as strong. It’s a fact of the drug.
My advice to you is to take your time to make gains and be happy with what you have. It not worth it in the long run to destroy your body to get laid a few extra times or what ever you reason may be. Lets face it most guys want the muscles so they can meet girls. Bust your ass in the gym and seek out all the natural alternatives. Yes I know you will never be able to achieve the same results. I’m well aware of that. I think in the long run you will be happen with not cheating your body.

P.S. One of the guys guys I use to work with at the club passed away at 33. I think it was a combo or roids, too much drinking, other drugs and what ever else he could get his hands on.

bryanz3.0cl

before i even touched them i was 18y/o , 5'9 205-215 and ~15%+-bf (high school stats and max's)
bench: 295, squat 405 to parallel, never dl'd so dont know what it was. 6 months after my 18th i decided to try them, unlike many i researched the hell out of them: side effects, half life esters, what could/should be stacked, dosages, gyno, progestins etc...did i reach my max natty potential? no probably not,and most people never do, thats why they keep training...should i have waited till i was older, hell yea but whats done is done and you cant change that. do i regret it? not really, but who knows maybe longer down the road i will.

and dont get me confused with those "more juice is better juice "idiots who are pumping 1g-2g+ a week staying on year long (the non pro-level guys who do that shit), i go with what works for me and no longer than 12-14 weeks including pct/pcr. and according to my friends buddy who is very well known BB'r (just got his procard last march i think) & who will remain nameless, said his girl takes more in 3 days then i do in a week (shes a fitness competitor) which i thought was crazy, damn she use to be HOT too, pre juice of course

my new stats would just get flamed so i wont bother but my offers still up in the air if anybody in herndon/reston/sterling cascades needs motivation in the gym

Junior34

thanks guys....decided just to continue working out el natural! maybe if I were getting paid millions as a pro baller and needed to shoot up to stay at the top of my game then yea I would take em. since I'm no baller or even getting paid I'll stay the strong chubbby guy.

KCPreki11

bryanz3.0cl, at least you admit the fact that you took them at too young of an age, way too young.

I still can't get over the fact that people have this big of a problem w/ steroids, but cigarettes are never ridiculed like this.

phile

Why does that even matter? Why should that even matter? People who are for legalization of marijuana also use the same argument...and I don't get that, either.

That argument does absolutely nothing to make steroids appear any less harmful.

DivineCL

DivineCL=Natural
vs <--(In-Comparrison, not to compete)
?=Roider

Post a picture of yourself and I'll post a picture of me.

bryanz3.0cl

post a pic of yourself, i would but my my brothers digi camera bdoesnt work. (and i definately dont have money to buy one)

Always Dirty

Alright, this whole putting pictures of each other up to see who is bigger is just a little too ghey. What's next, a hangdown?

phipark

I'm glad I've been skipping past this thread. :gheyfight:

Doom878

Posting pics won't prove much. Everyone's body is different. Through genetics some people get 6-packs by burping while others have to endure strict diets, tough exercise, mad cardio, etc. Everyone's body reacts differently so what's the point?

KCPreki11

haha, the whole point would be to see who's bigger/ripped. They don't have the genetically gifted and the genetically non-gifted at contests. Your post cracks me up.

KCPreki11

What's worse a life of smoking and drinking (which most serious lifters don't do) or a cycle of steroids?

I can't think of any positives w/ cigarettes? At least w/ a cycle your gaining muscle and you not harming others.

Everyone knows there's negative effects to roids but the harm can be minimized. Can the harm of cigarettes be minimized? No.

What don't you get from other's reasons to legalize marijuana or roids? The argument makes perfect sense.

DivineCL

It's so you guys can see where hard work and proper nutrition can land you. This way you guys can stick to natural bodybuilding as opposed to taking roids. I started working out February of last year
and people who knew me then can't believe how big I've got. Here is two pics of me posing for you fags. I'm sure some have already seen them but for those who haven't...here you go. Keep in mind...all natural!






This is not a :gheyfight: it's a comparrison, so that you can see that one can get good results from hard work and proper nutrition. Dedication is the key!

Adam_Schwartz

The thread is about steroids, not cigs. Just because we aren't comparing steroids to cigs, crack or meth doesn't imply we think these things are aren't bad for you. It's just that steroids is the topic at hand.

Adam_Schwartz

Here's a pic of me about 6 weeks ago. Beat that bitches!!

Always Dirty

Are you single?

Always Dirty

That bottom pic looks fake or like someone photoshopped a head on it for some reason, DivineCL. Not knocking you, it just looks funny. Don't hurt me.

Adam_Schwartz

No, it does look a little funny, not ha-ha funny, but like an oil painting. Props to Divine for the hard work though.

Adam_Schwartz

No, but there's enough of me to go around.

Nicky Pass

Steroids were created for medical reasons....if you use them the right way....(research what does what!) you can get good results with no side effects. Its wen you go over board and doing crazy stacks and using growth hormone when you get those wierd side effects.

Doom878

Of course it matters who's being compared. Divine has only been workin out since Feb last year and he's in great shape in those pics. HIs friends don't even believe it. I know plenty of people including myself that have worked out extremely hard and won't look like that. Maybe they were fatter when they started, maybe they can't bulk, etc, etc. Even if they did his regimen they might not look the same with or without roids.

bryanz3.0cl

youre decent size. stats:?

how is it gay to compare pics between people who lift/bb's. thats why we lift to get bigger and show how we've progressed...this why i dont post anything about lifting on these forums, its a car related forum

KCPreki11

It's not about how you get there....

Always Dirty

Well I got dibs on the "business end" then!

Always Dirty

Just busting your balls. But it is gay to be asking to see pictures of another man's muscles. I work very hard at shaving my nuts, and I'm sure other dudes on here do too, but you don't see us asking to see pics so we can all appreciate each other's shorn scrotums. Alright fine, not the best analogy...

phile

You just answered your own question. A life of smoking and drinking, at least you survive for a while. You don't get a life cycle of steroids...there is extensive research out there that clearly shows serious, irreversible, life-threatening side effects for continued steroid use. Organ failures, diabetes, among them.

And as I already mentioned, it has taken forever to establish a causality between cigarette use and illness...that is not the case with steroids. That is probably only one of many reasons why cigarettes are still legal....their use was actually promoted during the early years.


If you're talking about ball shrinkage, yeah that goes away. Liver failure? Diabetes? Pancreatitis? I think what you consider negative is far removed from what I think is a negative side effect.


Obviously to people who support it, it makes sense. Just because A is legal doesn't mean B can be legal. That is just specious reasoning - it does not present any supporting view for why you think an illegal substance should be legal.

phile

No they were not. The Germans were using them on dogs, and then on their soldiers. They wanted to make giants to conquer the world; hardly as altruistic sounding as "for medical reasons."

It was only later on that certain hormones, not necessarily steroids, were of benefit for certain illnesses.