TXXXX

I started working out again 3 1/2 month ago that focused on upper body, after a year of hiatus.
I notice I lost some flexibility.

Do you guy do any kind of stretches or something that can help w/flexibility?

Doom878

Select a muscle and it shows how to exercise it and how to stretch it

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

RaptorCLS

just make sure to stretch afterwards. Stretching will slightly fatigue the muscles. So if you stretch before, you will not me maximizing your lift potential.

Do warm-ups instead.

phipark

I don't know about that. I feel stronger when I stretch. But maybe don't stretch in between sets.

blackfire18c

What do you mean by lift potential? If your goal is to lift as much weight as possible, I guess you woudln't want lose your lift potential. But for the most part, people want to either lose weight or tone up. I've read that stretching is important for muscle development after the work out. When I get really sore, I stretch those muscles in order to help increase circulation and recovery.

As for stretching tips, anything that pulls the muscle you want to stretch is stretching. Hence the term "stretching" Basically go against the motion that the muscle goes.

Adam_Schwartz

You are suggesting not to stretch before lifting? That is not good advice IMO. I'd rather stretch before and help avoid injury as opposed to lifting an extra 5-10 lbs. Also, I never feel fatigued after stretching, at least compared to the energy I exert doing squats, pull ups, etc.

JimmyCarter

I've heard that stretching prior to lifting can actually lead to injury and should only be done after lifting

Adam_Schwartz

Looks like there are several points of view on stretching - I have been lifting for years and always have stretched beforehand and have never sustained a lifting-related injury, so that is my personal experience. I suppose it's the whole "6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other" argument that neither approach is right or wrong.

Let's take squats - I can see how doing some reps with the bar, then 135, then 155, etc could have a similar effect as stretching since you are using relatively minimal weight.

JimmyCarter

All depends on what results you're going for I suppose (I still stretch before lifting )
I think the person I'm referring to was mainly saying not to do the stretching first thing. Like don't show up at the gym cold, then stretch and lift - get the body warmed up first, then stretch if you want to. I need to look this stuff up again

Adam_Schwartz

I see, perhaps getting some blood flow and muscles warmed up before stretching is the idea. I especially put in at least 5 min on the stationary bike if I do deadlifts or squats and that always helps. I've tried it before without any bike work and my legs did not feel as good.

I admit that I am bad about stretching AFTER lifting, so I need to improve on this.

Doom878

I can start COLD but I need to stretch or else I feel too tight and then can't continue lifting.

RaptorCLS

If you are trying to build muscle, you should not stretch before lifting. You do warm-ups intead.

Yes, if you go directly to lifting a weight thats you normally lift all the time, you will injury yourself.

For example:

Barbell Curls

start a weight that you can 12-15 reps (1 set) warm-up
go to a weight that you go 8-12 reps (2nd set) increase weight
go to a weight you go to 5-8 reps (3rd set) increase weight
go to a weight you go to 3-4 reps (4th set) highest weight to do 3-4 reps

last set reduce your highest weight about half then do it to failure.

Also note to use proper form...not doing this can also cause injuries or just plain not getting the gains you hope for.


What I refer to is for building muscle, not toning up to be a runner or something (just to clarify)

Adam_Schwartz

OK, I thought you were saying stretching beforehand was a bad idea COMPLETELY. So when you are trying to add muscle, you'd want to use the warm up sets as your pre-lifting stretching, so to speak. Cheers!

gavriil

The above is 100% correct and it's relatively new info from recent research. It's about 1.5 years old.

Every "up to date" trainer, will now have their people train AFTER exercising or, in the case of other sports, after the drills are done or the after the game is done.

Stretching before any 100% sort of activity (from an intensity and overload perspective) hampers that activity.

gavriil

How have you "noticed you've lost some flexibility" ?

gavriil

The reason you "feel stronger" is because of the warmup and acclimation effects of stretching. When a muscle is stretched "well" for 20-30 seconds, many of the same things that happen during warmup and acclimation do take place also. So that is why people have "fallen" for stretching for so long now. Because it feels better (muscles feel better) to lift or throw the ball, or whatever activity you're doing, people and trainers have thought that stretching is useful.

However, there is not ONE study that has proven any injury avoidance evidence because of stretching.

Stretching is good, for overall joint health and maintaining flexibility which many sports athletes need, but it hampers maximum performance if done before that performance takes place.

gavriil

Please see above post...

gavriil

There is some evidence that suggests that, but more research is needed on that.

From a logical standpoint, it might make sense when you think of it this way:

Because after stretching, the ROM is increased, for bodybuilders that emphasize the importance of ROM when lifting, the joint comes closer to its limits while overloaded and some form of injury could take place there because of the above.

However, again, no definitive research exists yet about this.

Adam_Schwartz

Thanks, Raptor also addressed my post.

Adam_Schwartz

So anytime I see a baseball or basketball player stretching out 20-30 minutes before a game, they are actually wasting their time?

This thread has some revelationary info for me - I was ALWAYS under the impression that stretching at least SOME before lifting was a good idea. But now I am reading the complete opposite. Not arguing that it's wrong, but just one of those things. I will gladly spend my time stretching after lifting rather than before.

RaptorCLS

RaptorCLS

also a side note...people say that streching will prevent cramps...not really...if you drink the proper amount of water for your body, you will not cramp up. I drink about 1.5-2 gallons a day.

TXXXX

For one, my hands can not reach as far to part of my back.

And the less range of turning my head side to side.

RaptorCLS

Hi Adam,

I used to compete in swimming, tennis, and football..so I can say this one things about stretching for athletics

Stretching beforehand can be benefical when playing sports. Reason is because you're stretching of course, the tendons and muscle tissue. You are not trying to harm/damage these tissues during your activity, thus wanting them to be 'stretched and limber'

In bodybuilding or weight training, the key to 'building muscle' is to first damage it. Muscles are not growing. They are rebuilding. When you workout heavily, you're tearing the muscle tissues. The growth factor is the repairing processing. You take supplements or what not (basically you want lots of protein) to aid in this process so that you prevent further muscle breakdown. A good anabolic would assist well in this.

Hope this helps a little.

gavriil

http://www.sportsgeezer.com/sportsge...tretching.html

RaptorCLS

good read.
A little better one is this site, I believe
http://www.treelight.com/health/exer...ingBasics.html

Doom878

I was wondering that also. That makes total sense.

Can I stretch after a set or should I wait until I'm completely done with the muscle?

Adam_Schwartz

Thanks dude - I actually have been lifting for many years and know about the muscle building process (despite my obvious ignorance with regard to stretching) Honestly not being rude here, just sharing my gym experience with others since I don't hang out in this forum too much. I appreciate all the info I can find - it really helps.

Perhaps I am nit picking about comments in this thread about stretching. I assume we need to keep in mind that we are talking specifically about stretching before weight lifting, not stretching before doing ANY activity, including athletics.

As I sit back and think, I can understand the theory that stretching before lifting allows an increased ROM, perhaps too much ROM that would be counter productive and lead to injury. But gavrill stated that NO studies have shown pre-lifting stretching to be beneficial at all, which is pretty big. As he also said, the public in general has always been told to stretch before lifting, which I admit I have always done. But that does not mean I won't change my routine, esp if there is evidence to support a change.

RaptorCLS

I would rec that you wait til your completely done. You dont want to hinder your next set. Just wait for 1-1.5mins to allow your glycogens levels to raise back up (basically allowing your muscles to rest to lift heavy again).

RaptorCLS

Never thought you were bro...we can all learn from each other. Thats why I love discussions such as these. Sorry if anything I wrote seemed snippy...it wasnt my intention.

Doom878

When I wait until after how long should I stretch for? Do I have to do like 3 sets of 30 seconds or something? Sorry if it was in the links.

RaptorCLS

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/donald1.htm

Adam_Schwartz

The thought never crossed my mind dude - as much as I *think* I know about lifting, fitness, nutrition, etc, rarely a day goes by that I don't learn something new. I have been lucky enough to find things that work well for me, but I'll never stop trying to find a better way. This new info on stretching is a prime example - I am kind of excited to try out post-lifting stretching and not worry about stretching beforehand. I've been on other boards where people are more concerned about flexing their e-muscles than helping others, which is why I like posting here.

Doom878

Well my workout was pretty quick since I didn't stretch in between and before. I did feel weak at first probably because the usual stretch wasn't there to warm me up. I never felt stiff and I stretched afterward. So far so good. Let's see how I feel tomorrow.

Whiskers

I stretch once a week.....

gavriil

THat's not what gavriil said at all

What I said was that there are no conclusive and complete studies that prove that stretching can prevent injuries.

There are benefits from stretching, but they have nothing to do with preventing injuries.

gavriil

Scientists believe that the reason stretching before lifting will hamper overload sets is because the muscle lifts about 5% more weight when the fibers are not "stretched out" which is the result that strething brings.

"Tighter" muscle fibers is better than less tight fibers for overload/strength training.

gavriil

Also, Adam, you might want to rethink your pre lifting warmups. Especially during your big muscle group days (deadlifts, squats) From what I understand from what you might be over-warmingup and slightly hampering your overload sets

Adam_Schwartz

I stand corrected, there are benefits to stretching, but nothing to conclude injuries are prevented by stretching beforehand. But specifically with repsect to weight lifting, it appaears that stretching before can actually be a bad thing, whereas stretching afterward is a better way to go.

Adam_Schwartz

let's take squats - currently, I will do a set using just the bar only to get my mind in gear and get my form down. From there, I will add a few plates and do ~10 reps. Next I will add 50 lbs and then do 6-10 reps. Then I will get into the "actual" sets where I do 3 sets of 6-10. Keep in mind, this is just my routine now. Do you think the 3 sets before the actual lifting occurs is too much?