wOOT! Changed my timing belt. Feel like I didn't have to.....
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wOOT! Changed my timing belt. Feel like I didn't have to.....
I've had some "chirping" noises on the belts side of the engine over the last few days and thought it might be the timing belt, tensioner or water pump. So after reviewing the timing belt replacement procedure in the service manual, I decided to tackle it myself. I already purchased the OEM components which I was going to have my mechanic use but I decided to postpone it. The noise made me change my mind. I disassembled everything Friday night and put it all back together Saturday morning. It wasn't nearly as bad as some make it out to be. Probably the worst part is getting to all the bolts. And checking the belt about a dozen times after install to make sure everything is TDC. Otherwise, I think it's a crock that mechanics charge 8 hours of labor for this. I'm an adept mechanic at best and it took me 6. And that was with checking the manual two or three times after each step. I'm guessing most mechanics could do it in 4 hours. I guess they charge 8 to pad in case they run into trouble.
Belt off:
New Belt installed:
Old components (sans the belt):
The interesting part was the look of the old components. Everything was sparkling clean. It was almost disappointing. I felt like I wasted 6 hours. I even mixed up the idler pulley because I set the old one next to the new, then forgot which was which. I spent about 10 minutes looking at both before I decided on one based on the other having just a little bit of grease/dirt on it. Hope it was the right one! I broke down the tensioner pulley to check out the bearing and it looked brand new. The belt was a bit dirty but no cracks, no missing or compromised teeth, no grease or water. And I marked where the tensioner was before removing the belt then looked after install of the new components. Exact same place. So apparently it didn't stretch to any noticeable degree either.
I started the car (with my fingers crossed) after I put everything back together and it ran great but still made the noise Turns out It was the drive belt the whole time. It looks like I got some oil or grease on it when I changed it last week which I presume was causing a bit of slipping. I took it off, cleaned it with some water and detergent, reinstalled it and the noise is gone. Had I known it was just the drive belt there's a strong chance I wouldn't have bothered with the TB service at all. I'm glad I did it for peace of mind and to simply say I did, but it's hard to believe that these components were anywhere close to failure. I'll have to tear down the water pump and check out the bearing there too just for kicks and giggles. It's going to be hard to convince myself to do the TB service when my Pilot hits 210K. Especially since it's a b!tch to work on compared to the TL and everything looks practically new when I removed the cam gear covers......
Belt off:
New Belt installed:
Old components (sans the belt):
The interesting part was the look of the old components. Everything was sparkling clean. It was almost disappointing. I felt like I wasted 6 hours. I even mixed up the idler pulley because I set the old one next to the new, then forgot which was which. I spent about 10 minutes looking at both before I decided on one based on the other having just a little bit of grease/dirt on it. Hope it was the right one! I broke down the tensioner pulley to check out the bearing and it looked brand new. The belt was a bit dirty but no cracks, no missing or compromised teeth, no grease or water. And I marked where the tensioner was before removing the belt then looked after install of the new components. Exact same place. So apparently it didn't stretch to any noticeable degree either.
I started the car (with my fingers crossed) after I put everything back together and it ran great but still made the noise Turns out It was the drive belt the whole time. It looks like I got some oil or grease on it when I changed it last week which I presume was causing a bit of slipping. I took it off, cleaned it with some water and detergent, reinstalled it and the noise is gone. Had I known it was just the drive belt there's a strong chance I wouldn't have bothered with the TB service at all. I'm glad I did it for peace of mind and to simply say I did, but it's hard to believe that these components were anywhere close to failure. I'll have to tear down the water pump and check out the bearing there too just for kicks and giggles. It's going to be hard to convince myself to do the TB service when my Pilot hits 210K. Especially since it's a b!tch to work on compared to the TL and everything looks practically new when I removed the cam gear covers......
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HeartTLs (09-15-2017)
#2
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How many miles on the existing belt?
#4
Instructor
I'm in the same boat as you were. I just ordered my timing belt/drive belt/tensioners/etc to do the service but I feel like I'm going to do it and feel the same way you did afterwards. I've heard many people say the same thing, that everything still looked great.
Oh well, peace of mind.
Oh well, peace of mind.
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None of them were difficult to remove in terms of being too tight or anything. It was access that was the problem. I frequently alternated between attempting access via the wheel well vs. the engine bay to see which was easier. For the most part it was the bolts that held the tensioner on as well as all of the little 10mm bolts that held the cover on. I had to use a mirror a few times to get a feel for where they were because they weren't easily visible. Then reach down with a ratchet to feel for them. They really weren't terrible. It was easy compared to taking the heat shield off the rear stock cat when I installed the high-flow cats. But nothing like working on old GM's with small block 305's and 350's where you could practically stand in the engine bay when you worked on them
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What did you use to loosen the crank bolt?
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I had already loosened the crank bolt via the starter blip method when I installed the lightweight pulley about a month ago. I tightened it back to the prescribed torque but it was still way easier to remove the second time around. I used a breaker bar and positioned it on the ground then cranked the starter. I used the same method but it only took one shot rather than about 10 when I removed it a month ago.
I'm not sure what other method to use with an automatic transmission. When I did it on my 6MT 3rd gen it was simply a matter of a large breaker bar since you could lock up the transmission. Couldn't figure out how to lock things up with the automatic (or if there's even a way?). But the blip method works fine.
I'm not sure what other method to use with an automatic transmission. When I did it on my 6MT 3rd gen it was simply a matter of a large breaker bar since you could lock up the transmission. Couldn't figure out how to lock things up with the automatic (or if there's even a way?). But the blip method works fine.
#11
Burning Brakes
Everyone got in the habit of replacing the water pump along with the timing belt back in the day because the pump shaft protruded through the pump body and there was a seal on it.
The seal would possibly fail - especially in cars made 20 or 30 years ago - and coolant would leak out to the exterior of the engine.
The seal would possibly fail - especially in cars made 20 or 30 years ago - and coolant would leak out to the exterior of the engine.
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Good point. I was focusing only on bearings but the water pump seal is certainly a consideration. The seal stuck to the block when I removed the pump, and I just threw it away. So it's not in the photo. It looked to be in pretty good shape but it's difficult to determine the integrity of a seal based solely on visual inspection. And failure of that seal would result in the timing belt getting wet which I've heard from some, will greatly compromise the integrity of the belt and potentially lead to a quick death. I read a post about someone with an Odyssey that had their belt replaced, and the shop installed the water pump wrong, which resulted in leaking and the belt breaking not long after install. IIRC, they were on a trip when it happened. The shop ended up replacing the engine since it obviously did a load of damage to valves and connecting rods with the belt breaking at highway speeds.
#13
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I've ordered the parts but I think for this one I'm going to hand it off to a mechanic.. I consider myself fairly mechanically inclined but this seems like a big job for me to tackle, am I wrong?
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Guess it depends on what you're comfortable with. What repairs have you done to cars in the past? I'd say if you've adjusted valves, installed exhaust components, brake rotors and pad replacment or coilovers that you'd be able to tackle this. It's a bit of a step up from some of those but of a similar caliber of skill. I'd say if you've only done things like fluid changes, air filter or spark plug replacements that the TB service might be too much.
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Me neither. There are a ton of pics of old water pumps you can find on google. Most at least have some sort of buildup if not some corrosion or discoloration. I can't seem to find any specifically from the j-engines but I don't know why they'd be different. But yeah, this old one could pass as new if a new seal was put on.
FWIW, I flushed the system and refilled with Zerex Asian coolant when I bought the car at 58K. I figured it would work fine since it's a silicate free HOAT formula like the Honda stuff. Apparently it keeps things pretty clean. (That bottle of Valvoline in the pic was for my sister in law's Ford Windstar. )
FWIW, I flushed the system and refilled with Zerex Asian coolant when I bought the car at 58K. I figured it would work fine since it's a silicate free HOAT formula like the Honda stuff. Apparently it keeps things pretty clean. (That bottle of Valvoline in the pic was for my sister in law's Ford Windstar. )
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Guess it depends on what you're comfortable with. What repairs have you done to cars in the past? I'd say if you've adjusted valves, installed exhaust components, brake rotors and pad replacment or coilovers that you'd be able to tackle this. It's a bit of a step up from some of those but of a similar caliber of skill. I'd say if you've only done things like fluid changes, air filter or spark plug replacements that the TB service might be too much.
#18
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Good point. I was focusing only on bearings but the water pump seal is certainly a consideration. The seal stuck to the block when I removed the pump, and I just threw it away. So it's not in the photo. It looked to be in pretty good shape but it's difficult to determine the integrity of a seal based solely on visual inspection. And failure of that seal would result in the timing belt getting wet which I've heard from some, will greatly compromise the integrity of the belt and potentially lead to a quick death. I read a post about someone with an Odyssey that had their belt replaced, and the shop installed the water pump wrong, which resulted in leaking and the belt breaking not long after install. IIRC, they were on a trip when it happened. The shop ended up replacing the engine since it obviously did a load of damage to valves and connecting rods with the belt breaking at highway speeds.
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jim_c (09-22-2017)
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$400 isn't bad considering a seasoned mechanic can probably hammer it out in 4-5 hours. With labor being $80-$100 an hour (depending on the area), that seems about right. There are a few supplies as well. The manual indicates to clean the gears off with solvent (I used engine degreaser and a nylon brush). You also have to drain and refill the coolant. A whole ton spilled out when I removed the pump, even though I had already drained the radiator.
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$400 isn't bad considering a seasoned mechanic can probably hammer it out in 4-5 hours. With labor being $80-$100 an hour (depending on the area), that seems about right. There are a few supplies as well. The manual indicates to clean the gears off with solvent (I used engine degreaser and a nylon brush). You also have to drain and refill the coolant. A whole ton spilled out when I removed the pump, even though I had already drained the radiator.
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I monitor various ECU parameters including coolant temp via one of those Bluetooth ECU connectors. So if the thermostat goes bad it would reflect in the coolant temp. Either getting too high if it seized up closed, or taking a long time to get to temp if it seized up open.