Using 97 Octane in an '09 Acura TL w/tech package
09-14-2011, 02:15 PM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Using 97 Octane in an '09 Acura TL w/tech package
I was wondering instead of using the 101 Octane (Premium), what would happen if you used the cheap 97 octane to save a few bucks on gas?
Would it just not run at optimum levels? Or would it due damage to the engine?
A co-worker said it just won't run as efficient but if I wanted to save a few bucks with this economy being so bad, I should go ahead and do it.
Thoughts?
Would it just not run at optimum levels? Or would it due damage to the engine?
A co-worker said it just won't run as efficient but if I wanted to save a few bucks with this economy being so bad, I should go ahead and do it.
Thoughts?
09-14-2011, 02:18 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-2009-2014-123/c-006-official-fuel-thread-all-fuel-related-threads-will-merged-here-643672/
Furthermore, if you want to save a "few bucks" - sell the TL and buy a different car.
Furthermore, if you want to save a "few bucks" - sell the TL and buy a different car.
09-14-2011, 04:33 PM
#5
The Sicilian
Why are you talking about using racing fuel in your TL!!!
Acually CAM II is 110 octane.
If I'm not mistaken here in CT we have low grade 87 mid grade 91 and premium at 93. And actually if you switch everyother time between 87 & 93 you should be just fine.
Acually CAM II is 110 octane.
If I'm not mistaken here in CT we have low grade 87 mid grade 91 and premium at 93. And actually if you switch everyother time between 87 & 93 you should be just fine.
09-14-2011, 04:36 PM
#7
^dont do that.
please. we already know the outcome.
Since the engine has a high compression ratio, it needs 91 or better. if a lower octane is present, the engine will knock. resulting in the ECU to PULL timing.
you will then get lower FUEL ECONOMY and a degrade in performance.
the lower fuel economy will offset the lower price of 87 octane, thus you dont save money.
Please stop trolling.
please. we already know the outcome.
Since the engine has a high compression ratio, it needs 91 or better. if a lower octane is present, the engine will knock. resulting in the ECU to PULL timing.
you will then get lower FUEL ECONOMY and a degrade in performance.
the lower fuel economy will offset the lower price of 87 octane, thus you dont save money.
Please stop trolling.
Last edited by justnspace; 09-14-2011 at 04:39 PM.
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09-15-2011, 01:22 PM
#10
Pro
I never understood the theory behind lowering the quality of gas you put in your car to save money. The risk of damage to your car and lower MPG don't make it worth it. If you can't afford premium petro there are plenty of other cars that don't require it. Not trying to be mean, just saying there's no logic in it.
09-15-2011, 02:23 PM
#12
The Sicilian
^dont do that.
please. we already know the outcome.
Since the engine has a high compression ratio, it needs 91 or better. if a lower octane is present, the engine will knock. resulting in the ECU to PULL timing.
you will then get lower FUEL ECONOMY and a degrade in performance.
the lower fuel economy will offset the lower price of 87 octane, thus you dont save money.
please. we already know the outcome.
Since the engine has a high compression ratio, it needs 91 or better. if a lower octane is present, the engine will knock. resulting in the ECU to PULL timing.
you will then get lower FUEL ECONOMY and a degrade in performance.
the lower fuel economy will offset the lower price of 87 octane, thus you dont save money.
True statement.
09-15-2011, 05:58 PM
#14
Drifting
What I bet you'll find running 87 is that you'll get less MPG than using the 91 or 93 octane. So you'll spend less per gallon, but fill up more often.
You already spent $30+k on your car, don't cheap out now, you'll end up spending more with low grade fuel over the long run anyway.
You already spent $30+k on your car, don't cheap out now, you'll end up spending more with low grade fuel over the long run anyway.
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09-15-2011, 11:34 PM
#15
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I've never seen a gas station that offers 101 Octane fuel....
09-16-2011, 08:36 AM
#17
Pro
09-16-2011, 09:09 AM
#18
Three Wheelin'
Have you seen/used racing fuel before? Its purple.... I've used it in my TL... the TL will advance timing up to a particular point with the OEM ECU. This has been discussed at length on the 3G side.
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09-16-2011, 09:26 AM
#20
Three Wheelin'
^ Correct.... but at a very high expense.
The TL engineers tuned the TL very aggressive. Add in the combination of a high compression motor, and you'll see why the 50/50 mixture works so well.
The better / more permanent solution though was proposed by another member: Opel
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...5&postcount=79
The TL engineers tuned the TL very aggressive. Add in the combination of a high compression motor, and you'll see why the 50/50 mixture works so well.
The better / more permanent solution though was proposed by another member: Opel
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...5&postcount=79
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justnspace (09-16-2011)
09-16-2011, 10:33 AM
#26
Racer
09-16-2011, 10:35 AM
#27
^well, as stated above....our cars engine compression ratio is race car status. it pings or knocks on 93 octane.
a mixture of 100 and 93 to make 96 gets rid of this knock.
the computer realizes that the engine is not knocking and will ADVANCE timing. thus, moar power.
but at 5 dollars+ its not economical to use this mixture unless you're taking the car to a track to extract the absolute most power out of the engine.
for common folk 91+ will be fine.
a mixture of 100 and 93 to make 96 gets rid of this knock.
the computer realizes that the engine is not knocking and will ADVANCE timing. thus, moar power.
but at 5 dollars+ its not economical to use this mixture unless you're taking the car to a track to extract the absolute most power out of the engine.
for common folk 91+ will be fine.
09-16-2011, 11:14 AM
#28
^well, as stated above....our cars engine compression ratio is race car status. it pings or knocks on 93 octane.
a mixture of 100 and 93 to make 96 gets rid of this knock.
the computer realizes that the engine is not knocking and will ADVANCE timing. thus, moar power.
but at 5 dollars+ its not economical to use this mixture unless you're taking the car to a track to extract the absolute most power out of the engine.
for common folk 91+ will be fine.
a mixture of 100 and 93 to make 96 gets rid of this knock.
the computer realizes that the engine is not knocking and will ADVANCE timing. thus, moar power.
but at 5 dollars+ its not economical to use this mixture unless you're taking the car to a track to extract the absolute most power out of the engine.
for common folk 91+ will be fine.
09-16-2011, 11:16 AM
#29
In texas its only 93 octane as well.
i wrote 91+
you cant hear the pings or knocks....its only detectable with a knock monitor.
As JNC stated, Acura has tuned this motor to be very high strung.
for every day common folk 91+ is fine and you wont get an audible knock.
but if you're taking it to the track or adding forced induction you'll want to monitor knock as so many pioneers have done with the 3G. They have found out that a higher octane stops knock completely, or hook up a meth kit.
again, this is for the absolute most power out of your engine.
common folk who do not race or care to see whats going on inside the engine should just stick with 91+
whats important to take from all of this?
use premium fuel. that is all.
i wrote 91+
you cant hear the pings or knocks....its only detectable with a knock monitor.
As JNC stated, Acura has tuned this motor to be very high strung.
for every day common folk 91+ is fine and you wont get an audible knock.
but if you're taking it to the track or adding forced induction you'll want to monitor knock as so many pioneers have done with the 3G. They have found out that a higher octane stops knock completely, or hook up a meth kit.
again, this is for the absolute most power out of your engine.
common folk who do not race or care to see whats going on inside the engine should just stick with 91+
whats important to take from all of this?
use premium fuel. that is all.
Last edited by justnspace; 09-16-2011 at 11:23 AM.
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Shellyduchsk8s (09-19-2011)
09-16-2011, 11:41 AM
#30
In texas its only 93 octane as well.
i wrote 91+
you cant hear the pings or knocks....its only detectable with a knock monitor.
As JNC stated, Acura has tuned this motor to be very high strung.
for every day common folk 91+ is fine and you wont get an audible knock.
but if you're taking it to the track or adding forced induction you'll want to monitor knock as so many pioneers have done with the 3G. They have found out that a higher octane stops knock completely, or hook up a meth kit.
again, this is for the absolute most power out of your engine.
common folk who do not race or care to see whats going on inside the engine should just stick with 91+
whats important to take from all of this?
use premium fuel. that is all.
i wrote 91+
you cant hear the pings or knocks....its only detectable with a knock monitor.
As JNC stated, Acura has tuned this motor to be very high strung.
for every day common folk 91+ is fine and you wont get an audible knock.
but if you're taking it to the track or adding forced induction you'll want to monitor knock as so many pioneers have done with the 3G. They have found out that a higher octane stops knock completely, or hook up a meth kit.
again, this is for the absolute most power out of your engine.
common folk who do not race or care to see whats going on inside the engine should just stick with 91+
whats important to take from all of this?
use premium fuel. that is all.
I kinda just read the first part of your post thats why the confusion
Originally Posted by justnspace
^well, as stated above....our cars engine compression ratio is race car status. it pings or knocks on 93 octane.
09-16-2011, 12:28 PM
#31
Three Wheelin'
Key points kidos:
- Use premium fuel at all times. 91, or 93 octane depending on your State, or location.
- When using FI, or going to the track it okay to blend 100 with 93. 50/50 mix is appropriate.
- At no point in time will you gain power by filling your tank with strait 100 octane. The ECU will only advance timing up to a particular point. After that it is only a loss of money. In some instances dyno's have shown a loss of power when fuel maps are not tuned to take advantage of the higher (100) octane.
- The most safe / appropriate / long term solution as discussed at length is methanol injection...
There is an amazing write up on the 3G side for a NMI system...
LINK
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justnspace (09-16-2011)
09-16-2011, 12:32 PM
#32
Moderator
I read from somewhere that it is because of the elevation of where your at, that higher octane is required for combustion due to that the air being so thick.
can anyone confirm this.
can anyone confirm this.
09-16-2011, 12:59 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
Traditionally in the mountain states octane ratings range from 85-91.
Our cars are aware of the elevation change and will adjust the fuel maps accordingly.
If your up for a long / geeky read:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasol...section-1.html
09-16-2011, 02:52 PM
#35
Instructor
This thread is pointless.....Racing fuel is sold for cars that have the set up to use it period, it's not there for the average consumer.
My CL has a customed programmed Unichip with a 100 Octane setting but I've only used it a few times, on the Dyno the results were minimal at best.
My CL has a customed programmed Unichip with a 100 Octane setting but I've only used it a few times, on the Dyno the results were minimal at best.
09-16-2011, 03:36 PM
#36
Moderator
This thread is pointless.....Racing fuel is sold for cars that have the set up to use it period, it's not there for the average consumer.
My CL has a customed programmed Unichip with a 100 Octane setting but I've only used it a few times, on the Dyno the results were minimal at best.
My CL has a customed programmed Unichip with a 100 Octane setting but I've only used it a few times, on the Dyno the results were minimal at best.
Correct, in higher elevations -ie: in less dense air; your car will have less oxygen, and accordingly the ECU will adjust for less fuel.
Traditionally in the mountain states octane ratings range from 85-91.
Our cars are aware of the elevation change and will adjust the fuel maps accordingly.
Traditionally in the mountain states octane ratings range from 85-91.
Our cars are aware of the elevation change and will adjust the fuel maps accordingly.
its not race fuel, its just needed for some states with higher elevations..
09-19-2011, 04:07 PM
#37
^dont do that.
please. we already know the outcome.
Since the engine has a high compression ratio, it needs 91 or better. if a lower octane is present, the engine will knock. resulting in the ECU to PULL timing.
you will then get lower FUEL ECONOMY and a degrade in performance.
the lower fuel economy will offset the lower price of 87 octane, thus you dont save money.
Please stop trolling.
please. we already know the outcome.
Since the engine has a high compression ratio, it needs 91 or better. if a lower octane is present, the engine will knock. resulting in the ECU to PULL timing.
you will then get lower FUEL ECONOMY and a degrade in performance.
the lower fuel economy will offset the lower price of 87 octane, thus you dont save money.
Please stop trolling.
09-20-2011, 12:00 PM
#38
you CAN buy unleaded 100 octane race fuel and certain gas stations in CA. I used to buy it a LOT when I had a prior car that was turbocharged / increaed boost.
I have no idea if there is any benefit on an NA car like a TL?? I doubt it would help that much.. might run smoother...
on my turbo car... once the 100 octane was in (instead of crap 91 octane gas) the car ran AMAZING. power gains were incredible.. my ECU would recalibrate timing and boost and the car was insanely more powerful. it also ran much much smoother.
higher octane gas burns more consistently than lower octane fuel... it resists detonation more. on a turbo car, where everyting is undre pressure... and also if it is hot outside - the car is more prone to detonate.. then your car retards timing.. = slower. if you run higher octane fuel, the gas resists detonation much better, and as a result, the car can more precisely measure when the gas will explode and advance the timing to the exact point that is most beneficial for power.
if you don't understand ignition timing... it's basically this. if you want the most "bang" out of each cylinder firing - you want the plug to fire and ignite the gas/air mixture while the piston is at the peak of the cylinder..so it gets a huge PUSH downward... if your car wiats unitl the piston is halfway down before it fires.. you get a lot less piston travel... less power. but if you ignite the gas TOO soon.. when the piston is not ready to go back down... then the piston is trying to go UP and the gas ingnites and tries to push it down.. that's bad. so to protect your car, the ECU can retard timing. so that you DON'T ignite the gas at the most perfect time.. it waits... so you lose power but gain safety. bad gas makes it more likely for the car to sense that youa re going to have that happen.. so it retards your timing.. meaning the plug fires later in the pistons cycle...so you get less out of each explosion...
in a nutshell.. race gas works wonders for cars.. but the ones that really benefit from it are turbochargd / high compression engines.
a regular car that dones't need it won't notice a difference.
be glad it won't help your car. if your car really needed/wanted it.. and you tried it.. you would be hooked... i used to call it "crack-tane".... it was addictive and at $5-6/gallon it was an expensive habit....
I have no idea if there is any benefit on an NA car like a TL?? I doubt it would help that much.. might run smoother...
on my turbo car... once the 100 octane was in (instead of crap 91 octane gas) the car ran AMAZING. power gains were incredible.. my ECU would recalibrate timing and boost and the car was insanely more powerful. it also ran much much smoother.
higher octane gas burns more consistently than lower octane fuel... it resists detonation more. on a turbo car, where everyting is undre pressure... and also if it is hot outside - the car is more prone to detonate.. then your car retards timing.. = slower. if you run higher octane fuel, the gas resists detonation much better, and as a result, the car can more precisely measure when the gas will explode and advance the timing to the exact point that is most beneficial for power.
if you don't understand ignition timing... it's basically this. if you want the most "bang" out of each cylinder firing - you want the plug to fire and ignite the gas/air mixture while the piston is at the peak of the cylinder..so it gets a huge PUSH downward... if your car wiats unitl the piston is halfway down before it fires.. you get a lot less piston travel... less power. but if you ignite the gas TOO soon.. when the piston is not ready to go back down... then the piston is trying to go UP and the gas ingnites and tries to push it down.. that's bad. so to protect your car, the ECU can retard timing. so that you DON'T ignite the gas at the most perfect time.. it waits... so you lose power but gain safety. bad gas makes it more likely for the car to sense that youa re going to have that happen.. so it retards your timing.. meaning the plug fires later in the pistons cycle...so you get less out of each explosion...
in a nutshell.. race gas works wonders for cars.. but the ones that really benefit from it are turbochargd / high compression engines.
a regular car that dones't need it won't notice a difference.
be glad it won't help your car. if your car really needed/wanted it.. and you tried it.. you would be hooked... i used to call it "crack-tane".... it was addictive and at $5-6/gallon it was an expensive habit....
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