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Have they actually said don't drive the car with a passenger ? Or are they still going with the "we have no idea if the passenger side bag is affected" guise?
I think the if we had the wonder woman lasso of truth the answer would be " Look we are losing billions of dollars on the driver side recall, were not ready to
lose another 3 billion on the passenger side recall so we are just acting like we have no idea what airbag inflator is in the other airbags"
See the video below that another forum member posted on 6/14. At around 2:50 mins in, Bruce Smith says something to the effect that "Most of these vehicles are designed so that when someone is not seated in the passenger seat the airbag is off. So maintaining an empty front passenger seat will allow customers use their vehicle while the dealer is awaiting parts"
And then at 3:19 a caption states: "Owners should avoid seating anyone in the front passenger seat until the recall repair can be completed"..
See the video below that another forum member posted on 6/14. At around 2:50 mins in, Bruce Smith says something to the effect that "Most of these vehicles are designed so that when someone is not seated in the passenger seat the airbag is off. So maintaining an empty front passenger seat will allow customers use their vehicle while the dealer is awaiting parts"
And then at 3:19 a caption states: "Owners should avoid seating anyone in the front passenger seat until the recall repair can be completed"..
Great catch. So it's as I figured. I continue to find it puzzling why anyone would go out of their way to try to buy a car that you cant have a passenger in the front seat in.
Maybe its not AS dangerous now as some of the older ones, but its a ticking time bomb.
The first time I called the service dept of Acura dealer was on Tuesday 7/5. They told me that they had been trying to contact other 4G TL owners but bc they haven't heard back from said owners, I can come in to get my inflator replaced. That was on Friday. I'm very happy. They also told me my passenger side was fine. I need to verify that though. BC I thought both sides were affected.
Edited to add: just checked my VIN on the recall site and it says my car is no longer under recall as of 7/11/2016.
Last edited by Civic2TSX; 07-12-2016 at 01:11 PM.
Reason: added text
The first time I called the service dept of Acura dealer was on Tuesday 7/5. They told me that they had been trying to contact other 4G TL owners but bc they haven't heard back from said owners, I can come in to get my inflator replaced. That was on Friday. I'm very happy. They also told me my passenger side was fine. I need to verify that though. BC I thought both sides were affected.
Edited to add: just checked my VIN on the recall site and it says my car is no longer under recall as of 7/11/2016.
So one of buddies has 2011 Merc ML350 that is also on recall list. They called the dealership and they told them not to worry about it since there's no one DIED from it. It is perfectly safe to drive....
The other buddy has 2011 Lexus IS250 with same recall and he was told there's nothing dealership can do at this point...
So I guess at least Honda/Acura is trying to work out with their customers... unlike the Merc and Lexus... hey 70 million cars are affected and maybe more!
Got the call today that my inflator was here. They offered a tow, I took them up on it. Izuzu NPR Flatbed was sent out without request. Now to see how long it takes to get it back from the stealership...err dealer.
Based on what I have been told other companies aren't being as customer friendly as Acura is in regards to these recalls. A friend of mine with a Toyota was told they aren't offering any rentals because the car is perfectly safe to drive. Someone with a BMW was basically told the same thing. I am just praying that my wife's 15 Lexus doesn't get recalled because based on what I have heard Lexus isn't giving out loaners or rentals. .
Based on what I have been told other companies aren't being as customer friendly as Acura is in regards to these recalls. A friend of mine with a Toyota was told they aren't offering any rentals because the car is perfectly safe to drive. Someone with a BMW was basically told the same thing. I am just praying that my wife's 15 Lexus doesn't get recalled because based on what I have heard Lexus isn't giving out loaners or rentals. .
You mean other car companies have service advisors who lie too ? Can't be
I could understand no loaner being offered for the passenger side. Completely understandable. I look forward to getting the recall for my passenger and side airbags soon enough. In the meantime, no one will be riding in my passenger seat.
You mean other car companies have service advisors who lie too ? Can't be
I could understand no loaner being offered for the passenger side. Completely understandable. I look forward to getting the recall for my passenger and side airbags soon enough. In the meantime, no one will be riding in my passenger seat.
Yeah, I can totally see how someone wanting to keep their passengers safe can be interpreted as anger.
You keep throwing back that one argument...can't blame you, I guess, since it's a good one. Nobody is going to argue that safety is a good thing. But in your vitriol against Honda and Acura, you tend to gloss over, purposefully, I suspect, a number of key facts:
1. A lot of manufacturer's are having to deal with these issues. It's not just Honda. It's not just Acura.
2. There's no proof (or even anyone suggesting, though I bet you question it) that Honda/Acura used these airbags knowing there was a problem with them.
3. There was no way for Honda/Acura, or any other manufacturer, to know there was a problem until the problem manifested itself. So did they wait for someone to die before they did something about it? Sure they did. They had no way of knowing there was a problem, until there was a problem.
4. Honda/Acura are not "doing nothing"; the recall is an immense undertaking, and the cost of it is staggering. But their doing it. Not fast enough for you? Suck it up, buttercup.
5. Honda/Acura does not make airbags. They buy them. And if their regular supplier has a "problem", they have to source them elsewhere. That takes time. Refer to number 4 above.
6. Honda's approach to this appears to have been thoughtfully carried out. The recall replacements have been staggered, focusing on higher risk cars. Rentals have been provided. Cars have been towed. Overkill, in my view, but to each his own.
7. Every step taken by Honda/Acura has been based on empirical evidence and science. Contrast with those who insist on knee-jerk reactions based on nothing more than assumptions (yes, I've read your posts about the passenger airbags).
This whole thing has admittedly been a terrible inconvenience to those of us with these airbags (please don't reply that those who've been injured or killed suffered more than an inconvenience...that's beneath you, I suspect). I'm sure you're a nice guy, and I'm not trying to pick a fight. But when I see someone like JT4 post a positive...showing how Honda is doing it right, and then see your response discounting it (or at least trying to discount it, though you didn't bring up any useful facts), I need to make sure the record is straight.
I'd like to say "we get it", but I certainly don't speak for "we", so I'll say I get it...you're disillusioned with Honda/Acura. You see greener grass on the other side. All I can suggest is, run to it. When the dust settles on this recall, sell your car, and get yourself nice [something else]. You're not happy with Honda/Acura, and you never will be. And while you're certainly entitled to your opinion, that doesn't you should be constantly so negative about Honda/Acura on this forum. It's the wrong place.
Or, if you do need to spread that vitriol, at least temper it with some honesty.
You keep throwing back that one argument...can't blame you, I guess, since it's a good one. Nobody is going to argue that safety is a good thing. But in your vitriol against Honda and Acura, you tend to gloss over, purposefully, I suspect, a number of key facts:
1. A lot of manufacturer's are having to deal with these issues. It's not just Honda. It's not just Acura.
2. There's no proof (or even anyone suggesting, though I bet you question it) that Honda/Acura used these airbags knowing there was a problem with them.
3. There was no way for Honda/Acura, or any other manufacturer, to know there was a problem until the problem manifested itself. So did they wait for someone to die before they did something about it? Sure they did. They had no way of knowing there was a problem, until there was a problem.
4. Honda/Acura are not "doing nothing"; the recall is an immense undertaking, and the cost of it is staggering. But their doing it. Not fast enough for you? Suck it up, buttercup.
5. Honda/Acura does not make airbags. They buy them. And if their regular supplier has a "problem", they have to source them elsewhere. That takes time. Refer to number 4 above.
6. Honda's approach to this appears to have been thoughtfully carried out. The recall replacements have been staggered, focusing on higher risk cars. Rentals have been provided. Cars have been towed. Overkill, in my view, but to each his own.
7. Every step taken by Honda/Acura has been based on empirical evidence and science. Contrast with those who insist on knee-jerk reactions based on nothing more than assumptions (yes, I've read your posts about the passenger airbags).
This whole thing has admittedly been a terrible inconvenience to those of us with these airbags (please don't reply that those who've been injured or killed suffered more than an inconvenience...that's beneath you, I suspect). I'm sure you're a nice guy, and I'm not trying to pick a fight. But when I see someone like JT4 post a positive...showing how Honda is doing it right, and then see your response discounting it (or at least trying to discount it, though you didn't bring up any useful facts), I need to make sure the record is straight.
I'd like to say "we get it", but I certainly don't speak for "we", so I'll say I get it...you're disillusioned with Honda/Acura. You see greener grass on the other side. All I can suggest is, run to it. When the dust settles on this recall, sell your car, and get yourself nice [[i]something else]. You're not happy with Honda/Acura, and you never will be. And while you're certainly entitled to your opinion, that doesn't you should be constantly so negative about Honda/Acura on this forum. It's the wrong place.
Or, if you do need to spread that vitriol, at least temper it with some honesty.
I am assuming you don't work for Acura in any way or don't have a strong desire to stick your head in the sand on this one. If either of those apply to you than anything you read isn't going to matter, as your mind has been made up.
Assuming that is not the case.
Take a look at this post from another user. CXRB I believe.
Read through that. My opinions on this are based on a LOT of supporting facts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this article is from 2014:
Takata Corporation, the Japanese airbag manufacturer at the center of a 17-million-vehicle worldwide recall for airbags that may shoot deadly metal debris in an accident, has always maintained that it first discovered the problem in 2008. But a New York Times report published late Thursday says the company knew about the defective airbags all the way back in 2004—and allegedly ordered employees to destroy test data confirming the issue.
The Times spoke with two former Takata employees on the condition of anonymity. The sources state that Takata was alerted to an airbag that fired metal debris at a driver in an accident in Alabama in 2004. In response, the informants claim, Takata conducted secret tests on 50 airbags obtained from junkyards, discovering cracked steel inflators in two of the airbags, a condition that can lead to the release of metal shrapnel when the airbags deploy in an accident. Engineers were so startled by the results that they began planning fixes to prepare for a recall. But the sources report that Takata executives ordered lab technicians to delete the testing data, erase video footage, and dispose of the airbag components used in the testing.
“All the testing was hush-hush,” one of the former employees told the Times. “Then one day, it was ‘pack it all up, shut the whole thing down.’ It was not standard procedure.” It wasn’t until four years later that Takata officially told regulators it had begun testing for problems with its airbags. The tests led to the first recall for the problem in November 2008.
Automotive News reports that lawmakers on Capitol Hill responded to the Times report by calling for a criminal investigation. In a joint statement, Senators Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn., and Edward Markey, D-Mass., say Takata “must be held accountable for the horrific deaths and injuries that its wrongdoing caused.” Senator Claire McCaskill, D-Mo., and U.S. Representative Fred Upton, R-Mich., also called for action by the Justice Department and safety regulators.
The problem has to do with the inflator module, a steel canister containing a chemical propellant that rapidly inflates the airbag in a collision. Structural weaknesses in the inflators can cause the steel casing to rupture when the airbag deploys, sending metallic pieces exploding toward a driver or passengers. The problem is blamed for at least four deaths and 139 injuries, 37 of which involve airbags that shot metal or chemicals at passengers, the Times reports.
Massive Takata Airbag Recall: Everything You Need to Know
Takata Recall Update: Airbags Being Disabled and Labeled “Do Not Sit Here”
Honda and Takata Allegedly Knew About Exploding Airbags Years Before Recall
A Takata spokesperson declined to comment to the Times on the issue.
The most recent death involving a Takata airbag occurred in Los Angeles last year, when the driver of a 2002 Acura TL was injured so badly by metallic shrapnel that investigators originally thought the death was a homicide.
Your definition of "facts"differs a bit from mine, however I work in the legal industry, so I'm going to stick with mine.
I read the articles you link to. Carefully. The first refers to an uncited "report" by the New York Times; in reality, it was referring to a news article. A news story prepared and published not by an independent authority, but by an organisation whose chief goal is to increase readership. These aren't "facts", and are certainly not the result of an inquiry. It's a writer's opinion. The underlying NYT article does reference the fact that Honda filed the necessary reports; the criticism is that the reports filed by Honda did not go above and beyond what was required. This is opinion.
But, for the sake of argument, let's assume that the articles are solid fact. Let's assume that early on, Honda "knew" that there were 2 deaths and 30 injuries as the article suggests (I use "quotes" because it's a tricky thing to say a company "knew" something. People can know things, but there's some question as to when that knowledge is attributable to the company as a whole). Your position, then, is that with 2 deaths and 30 injuries, out of millions of cars on the road, the recall should have been declared right then and there? C'mon. Do you know how many people are going to die or be injured on roads in North America before the clock strikes 12 tonight? How about worldwide. The deaths are tragic, for sure. But, on some level, they are statistics, and the question is whether they are statistically relevant. Sometimes, a "bad unit" gets out the door; that doesn't mean you pull every one.
But let's say I'm wrong. Let's say that statistically, they should have known that there's a systemic problem. Then what? The first comment under the first article, by "Joe" states:
"How can they replace defective airbags when they Don't have the root cause of the defect? Will they replace defective airbags with more defective airbags?"
Joe raises a very interesting point. If they don't understand the problem, what kind of recall are they doing? Put in a new airbag module with the same problem? Put in a different airbag module, and hope it doesn't have the same problem? Take out the airbag? Take back the cars? What?
So yes, I read the articles. I don't think they say what you think they say. I don't think they provide the empirical evidence that you think they prove. And I certainly don't think that someone else's opinion about when the recall should have happened should necessarily inform my own. And although the NYT piece may have relied on a great deal of research which was not referred to in the article itself, in my view, it comes across as an opinion piece.
But all of that is an aside, and doesn't relate to the point I was really trying to make, which is this: if someone hates Apple, but goes to the iMore forum to talk about how awful Apple products are, we have a name for that. If someone goes into the comment section of YouTube to add needlessly critical comments about a video (which they didn't need to watch), we have a name for that. But I don't think you're trolling. I really don't. I just think you don't entirely recognise how repetitive your posts have become. And while I wouldn't normally seek to stifle the opinion of another, I have to question your motives in coming to an Acura site to tell everyone, repeatedly, how awful Acura is. Maybe you'll have some takers. But honestly, I think you're wasting your time.
Yeah, I can totally see how someone wanting to keep their passengers safe can be interpreted as anger.
You have bigger chances of being struck by lightning... Relax man your TL is pretty new, you are safe.
I will be praying for you if you will stop whining. Whining every day, will not solve your problems.
A couple months ago I got a loaner for my wife's 2016 RDX and drove it for a month. Brought it in once the inflators showed up and came to find out her vehicle wasn't affected after all. We returned it and I made sure to have them place an order for the TL. Another month went by as I was not going to park my TL for who knows how long. I took it in last Tuesday for a different inspection and asked if they could look into my inflators with no luck. Came back in today to get a loaner to try and speed up the process and the service manager, my buddy went to check the back and had a spare one. So got it replaced on the spot today without the loaner or waiting for my ordered one to show up. Gotta love have connects. I should have spoken to him earlier but the car isn't driven much. Very happy to be able to cruise around safely.
You mean other car companies have service advisors who lie too ? Can't be
I could understand no loaner being offered for the passenger side. Completely understandable. I look forward to getting the recall for my passenger and side airbags soon enough. In the meantime, no one will be riding in my passenger seat.
Putting everything else aside for a moment, the point I was trying to make is that there are 69 million vehicles affected on this recall from various manufacturers. I could be wrong, but from what I have read, heard and experienced, Acura / Honda are the only ones that offered their customers loaners or rentals as they awaited the parts to come in, regardless of how long it took.
So as crappy as this whole situation has been, and once again putting everything else aside for a moment, in all fairness I feel that Acura / Honda did the right thing as far as this goes.
Your definition of "facts"differs a bit from mine, however I work in the legal industry, so I'm going to stick with mine.
I read the articles you link to. Carefully. The first refers to an uncited "report" by the New York Times; in reality, it was referring to a news article. A news story prepared and published not by an independent authority, but by an organisation whose chief goal is to increase readership. These aren't "facts", and are certainly not the result of an inquiry. It's a writer's opinion. The underlying NYT article does reference the fact that Honda filed the necessary reports; the criticism is that the reports filed by Honda did not go above and beyond what was required. This is opinion.
But, for the sake of argument, let's assume that the articles are solid fact. Let's assume that early on, Honda "knew" that there were 2 deaths and 30 injuries as the article suggests (I use "quotes" because it's a tricky thing to say a company "knew" something. People can know things, but there's some question as to when that knowledge is attributable to the company as a whole). Your position, then, is that with 2 deaths and 30 injuries, out of millions of cars on the road, the recall should have been declared right then and there? C'mon. Do you know how many people are going to die or be injured on roads in North America before the clock strikes 12 tonight? How about worldwide. The deaths are tragic, for sure. But, on some level, they are statistics, and the question is whether they are statistically relevant. Sometimes, a "bad unit" gets out the door; that doesn't mean you pull every one.
But let's say I'm wrong. Let's say that statistically, they should have known that there's a systemic problem. Then what? The first comment under the first article, by "Joe" states:
"How can they replace defective airbags when they Don't have the root cause of the defect? Will they replace defective airbags with more defective airbags?"
Joe raises a very interesting point. If they don't understand the problem, what kind of recall are they doing? Put in a new airbag module with the same problem? Put in a different airbag module, and hope it doesn't have the same problem? Take out the airbag? Take back the cars? What?
So yes, I read the articles. I don't think they say what you think they say. I don't think they provide the empirical evidence that you think they prove. And I certainly don't think that someone else's opinion about when the recall should have happened should necessarily inform my own. And although the NYT piece may have relied on a great deal of research which was not referred to in the article itself, in my view, it comes across as an opinion piece.
But all of that is an aside, and doesn't relate to the point I was really trying to make, which is this: if someone hates Apple, but goes to the iMore forum to talk about how awful Apple products are, we have a name for that. If someone goes into the comment section of YouTube to add needlessly critical comments about a video (which they didn't need to watch), we have a name for that. But I don't think you're trolling. I really don't. I just think you don't entirely recognise how repetitive your posts have become. And while I wouldn't normally seek to stifle the opinion of another, I have to question your motives in coming to an Acura site to tell everyone, repeatedly, how awful Acura is. Maybe you'll have some takers. But honestly, I think you're wasting your time.
Much like the airbag issue, your misinformed, at least when it comes to my "agenda". The whole forum is about opinion, opinions about everything and I have a strong opinion when it comes to something that endangers me or my passengers.
I am a HUGE fan of Acura/Honda and have been for about 15 years now. I've gushed about how much I love the 4G TL ad-nauseum. So to suggest I'm just here just to say how awful Acura is as a company is a gross miscalculation on your part.
I do think they handled this situation very poorly in many respects and am voicing my displeasure, which to be honest, may be too much to handle for people looking for opinions on how cool their new rims are. No one likes to hear their 40,000 car they know and love has some life threatening issue under the hood, but it is what it is.
July 18, 2016 @ 8:45 pm Craig Trudell and Margaret Cronin Fisk
Bloomberg
TOKYO/DETROIT -- Takata Corp., the airbag supplier behind the industry’s largest ever recall, routinely manipulated results of airbag inflator tests reported to Honda Motor Co., according to an ongoing audit commissioned by the supplier and its biggest customer.
Takata engineers removed some test results to artificially reduce variability in airbag inflator performance, Brian O’Neill, a former Insurance Institute for Highway Safety president, said in a phone interview. Takata and Honda jointly hired O’Neill to begin the audit in late October, days before Honda first announced findings of data manipulation.
“We have found examples of what I would call ‘selective editing,’ where they have left out results not because they were bad results, but because the results that remained were better,” said O’Neill, whose hiring hasn’t previously been reported. “We found evidence that the report that went to Honda was a shorter version of the original version, and it was a prettier shortened version.”
Findings of pervasive data manipulation and misrepresentations to carmakers could complicate Takata’s efforts to restructure and secure potential buyers following the biggest safety crisis in the auto industry’s history. Takata needs its customers’ backing to help weather costs of recalls that may exceed 100 million airbags worldwide.
'Entirely inexcusable'
The results of the audit will factor in Honda’s investigation into whether it should recall some additional Takata inflators, Chris Martin, a spokesman for the automaker, said by e-mail. The company has already said no new Honda or Acura models under development will be equipped with Takata-supplied inflators.
“Takata has previously acknowledged and deeply regrets issues related to the integrity of Takata’s inflator validation testing and reporting of test results to its customers,” said Jared Levy, a spokesman for the company. “These issues are totally incompatible with Takata’s engineering standards and protocols and entirely inexcusable.”
In one instance, Takata’s manipulation of airbag inflator test results in 2000 emerged last year as part of a lawsuit against the company on behalf of Patricia Mincey, a Florida woman who became a ventilator-dependent quadriplegic following a low-speed collision in her 2001 Honda Civic. Honda recalled the vehicle four days after the incident in June 2014. Mincey died earlier this year.
Before Takata agreed to settle the Mincey lawsuit last week, several current and former engineers said in depositions that the company also altered and misrepresented test data in reports to Toyota Motor Corp., Nissan Motor Co. and General Motors.
Brian Mayville, a Takata engineering manager, said during a deposition taken in November that select reports were not properly represented to Toyota and GM.
Nissan report
Kevin Fitzgerald, an engineer who left Takata in 2014, said he witnessed alteration of test reporting when working on an inflator for Nissan in 2005. During his deposition in February, Fitzgerald said he reported data misrepresentation by fellow engineer Shinichi Tanaka to managers and the company’s lawyers. After telling Fitzgerald corrective action would be taken, the company made Tanaka his boss, he said.
Takata didn’t respond to requests for comment on Fitzgerald’s deposition and didn’t answer whether Tanaka still worked for the company or was available for comment.
Toyota is evaluating the situation, spokesman Itsuki Kurosu said, declining to comment further. Nissan spokesman Nick Maxfield said the company doesn’t comment on matters related to ongoing litigation. GM is closely monitoring the Takata inflator situation using internal and third-party experts, spokesman Tom Wilkinson said.
Buyer search
The latest revelations come amid attempts by Takata and its adviser, Lazard Ltd., to find buyers for the company.
The company has contacted as many as 20 possible bidders, people familiar with the matter have said. It’s open to a sale to a private equity partner, a parts supplier or a combination, said the people, who asked not to be named because the matter is private.
As many as 15 deaths, including 10 in the U.S., have been linked to defective Takata airbag inflators that rupture and spray plastic and metal shards at drivers and passengers. Ruptures also have resulted in more than 100 serious injuries, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
The audit O’Neill is conducting on behalf of Honda and Takata initially focused on airbag inflators the company validated in North America for vehicles in the region, he said. Honda hasn’t been provided final results of this phase, which is nearing completion, said Martin, the automaker’s spokesman.
The next phase for O’Neill and his team is to review more data pertaining to worldwide Takata inflators for Honda vehicles. Once they receive the data, this phase of the audit may take two to three months, he said.
I will admit, notwithstanding the recall, I've been pretty confident of my vehicle. It's an '09, and I live in a dry, northern climate. That said, today I was given a loaner when I dropped of the wife's Pilot for brake work. The loaner is a 10 year old Accord, with the dial in miles (so it came from the states); I'll admit I was a bit more cautious driving it to work this morning.
You have bigger chances of being struck by lightning... Relax man your TL is pretty new, you are safe.
I will be praying for you if you will stop whining. Whining every day, will not solve your problems.
Keep your head in the sand, much safer in there. Ignorance is bliss.
Keep your head in the sand, much safer in there. Ignorance is bliss.
When it is raining and there is lightning, you should always have copper grounding rod with you. Like said, there is much bigger chance, you gonna be hit by lightning than airbag flying debris.
friend w/ 2005 MDX just got recall latter from Acura for passenger side airbag - "don't let anyone ride front passenger seat.."
no rental offer
Got the same letter today for my 2006 Honda Civic, passenger side airbag inflator. Seems like parts will be available late summer/fall. No rental offered just a recommendation of to not have anybody use the front passenger seat.
friend w/ 2005 MDX just got recall latter from Acura for passenger side airbag - "don't let anyone ride front passenger seat.."
no rental offer
Originally Posted by LostProphet
Got the same letter today for my 2006 Honda Civic, passenger side airbag inflator. Seems like parts will be available late summer/fall. No rental offered just a recommendation of to not have anybody use the front passenger seat.
Not Acura or Honda's fault, but here we go again.......
When it is raining and there is lightning, you should always have copper grounding rod with you. Like said, there is much bigger chance, you gonna be hit by lightning than airbag flying debris.
Will GM be forced to recall 4.3 million more trucks and SUVs with Takata airbags?
JULY 22, 2016If GM does not prove by September that the Takata inflators in a number of its vehicles are safe, even without a desiccant, it will have to recall an additional 4.3 million vehicles.
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AUTOMAKER PUSHES BACK AGAINST INFLATOR REPLACEMENT MANDATE BY NHTSA, CITING LACK OF RUPTURES
GM may be forced to recall 4.3 million additional vehicles for Takataairbag inflators if it does not prove by September they are safe, Reuters reports.
In May of this year, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration announced that 17 automakers will have to recall from 35 to 40 million inflators produced by Takata, adding to the 28 million inflators that had been recalled to date. NHTSA made the decision to recall all frontal Takata-made airbags that do not use a drying agent after studies that linked the lack of such desiccant to propellant degradation which, coupled with the age of the airbags, can produce ruptures during normal deployment that can cause injury or death.
Two fatal accidents in Malaysia have been linked to Takata-made airbags, bringing the number of worldwide fatalities associated with the defective airbags to 13."Honda has confirmed that the ...
GM has been in talks with NHTSA to be allowed to forego the recall for a number of its vehicles.
"Our analysis and data presently indicate that the inflators in the GM vehicles within the scope of the Takata DIR and the amended consent order are currently performing as designed, show no significant signs of propellant degradation and, therefore, will not pose an unreasonable risk to motor vehicle safety through 2019, if at all, given the unique vehicle platform and design characteristics of the vehicles and the differences in the airbag inflators in those vehicles," the automaker said this week in a securities filing.
GM is arguing the design of the vehicles is different enough to prevent the types of injuries that have been associated with Takata inflator ruptures, and cites 44,000 airbag deployments in SUVs and pickups that have not produced any ruptures.
"For example, the Takata passenger-side airbag inflators used in these trucks and SUVs are a variant engineered specifically for these GM vehicles, and include features such as greater venting, unique propellant wafer configurations and machined steel end caps," the automaker stated. "The inflators are packaged in the instrument panel in such a way as to minimize exposure to moisture from the climate control system. Importantly, these full-size trucks and SUVs have features and attributes that minimize the maximum temperature to which the inflator will be exposed, such as large interior volumes and standard solar-absorbing windshields and side glass."
Fiat Chrysler Automobiles will, by next week, stop using the type of Takata airbag inflator that is the subject of a worldwide recall, the company announced."Most inflators used in FCA U.S. ...
GM's position differs from NHTSA's view that all frontal airbags produced by Takata that do not use a drying agent must be replaced.
The automaker also disclosed that a potential recall of all 4.3 million vehicles for this issue would cost $550 million.
GM is still on track to recall 2.5 million vehicles equipped with Takata airbags.
"NHTSA’s Amended Consent Order directed Takata to file DIRs for previously unrecalled front airbag inflators using ammonium nitrate propellant without a drying agent," the automaker stated back in June. "The order requires vehicle manufacturers named in the Takata reports to initiate recalls. Although GM does not believe that a safety defect exists at this time, the company is filing a preliminary recall in cooperation with NHTSA."
Will GM be forced to recall 4.3 million more trucks and SUVs with Takata airbags?
JULY 22, 2016If GM does not prove by September that the Takata inflators in a number of its vehicles are safe, even without a desiccant, it will have to recall an additional 4.3 million vehicles.
SEE MORERECALLS
SHARE
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AUTOMAKER PUSHES BACK AGAINST INFLATOR REPLACEMENT MANDATE BY NHTSA, CITING LACK OF RUPTURES
GM may be forced to recall 4.3 million additional vehicles for Takataairbag inflators if it does not prove by September they are safe, Reuters reports.
In May of this year, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration announced that 17 automakers will have to recall from 35 to 40 million inflators produced by Takata, adding to the 28 million inflators that had been recalled to date. NHTSA made the decision to recall all frontal Takata-made airbags that do not use a drying agent after studies that linked the lack of such desiccant to propellant degradation which, coupled with the age of the airbags, can produce ruptures during normal deployment that can cause injury or death.
Two fatal accidents in Malaysia have been linked to Takata-made airbags, bringing the number of worldwide fatalities associated with the defective airbags to 13."Honda has confirmed that the ...
GM has been in talks with NHTSA to be allowed to forego the recall for a number of its vehicles.
"Our analysis and data presently indicate that the inflators in the GM vehicles within the scope of the Takata DIR and the amended consent order are currently performing as designed, show no significant signs of propellant degradation and, therefore, will not pose an unreasonable risk to motor vehicle safety through 2019, if at all, given the unique vehicle platform and design characteristics of the vehicles and the differences in the airbag inflators in those vehicles," the automaker said this week in a securities filing.
GM is arguing the design of the vehicles is different enough to prevent the types of injuries that have been associated with Takata inflator ruptures, and cites 44,000 airbag deployments in SUVs and pickups that have not produced any ruptures.
"For example, the Takata passenger-side airbag inflators used in these trucks and SUVs are a variant engineered specifically for these GM vehicles, and include features such as greater venting, unique propellant wafer configurations and machined steel end caps," the automaker stated. "The inflators are packaged in the instrument panel in such a way as to minimize exposure to moisture from the climate control system. Importantly, these full-size trucks and SUVs have features and attributes that minimize the maximum temperature to which the inflator will be exposed, such as large interior volumes and standard solar-absorbing windshields and side glass."
Fiat Chrysler Automobiles will, by next week, stop using the type of Takata airbag inflator that is the subject of a worldwide recall, the company announced."Most inflators used in FCA U.S. ...
GM's position differs from NHTSA's view that all frontal airbags produced by Takata that do not use a drying agent must be replaced.
The automaker also disclosed that a potential recall of all 4.3 million vehicles for this issue would cost $550 million.
GM is still on track to recall 2.5 million vehicles equipped with Takata airbags.
"NHTSA’s Amended Consent Order directed Takata to file DIRs for previously unrecalled front airbag inflators using ammonium nitrate propellant without a drying agent," the automaker stated back in June. "The order requires vehicle manufacturers named in the Takata reports to initiate recalls. Although GM does not believe that a safety defect exists at this time, the company is filing a preliminary recall in cooperation with NHTSA."
For what it's worth, I spoke to my SA yesterday to ask about the passenger side. He said that as of now he hasn't heard of any TL recalls for the passenger side inflators, but said that new info is coming out all the time. He also said that he is aware of recalls on the RL's and MDX's.
Just got a call from my dealership saying that my inflator was in (It's been just under 6 weeks since I ordered it with my SA) BUT they say that they can only hold it for 72 hours... which, unfortunately, is over this particular weekend, when I'm out of town until Tuesday afternoon... I asked if they could hold it until Tuesday evening, but they said they can only hold it for 72 hours (Monday evening) and to call and see... That doesn't sound all that promising to me Maybe I'll get bumped back to the end of the list and wait another 6 weeks, or maybe they'll hold the part for me (doubtful)...
Just got a call from my dealership saying that my inflator was in (It's been just under 6 weeks since I ordered it with my SA) BUT they say that they can only hold it for 72 hours... which, unfortunately, is over this particular weekend, when I'm out of town until Tuesday afternoon... I asked if they could hold it until Tuesday evening, but they said they can only hold it for 72 hours (Monday evening) and to call and see... That doesn't sound all that promising to me Maybe I'll get bumped back to the end of the list and wait another 6 weeks, or maybe they'll hold the part for me (doubtful)...
This seems totally unreasonable. I can understand having a limit for a customer to contact the dealership but once the customer has acknowledged that the part is in, holding it for them seems like the right thing to do.
Just got a call from my dealership saying that my inflator was in (It's been just under 6 weeks since I ordered it with my SA) BUT they say that they can only hold it for 72 hours... which, unfortunately, is over this particular weekend, when I'm out of town until Tuesday afternoon... I asked if they could hold it until Tuesday evening, but they said they can only hold it for 72 hours (Monday evening) and to call and see... That doesn't sound all that promising to me Maybe I'll get bumped back to the end of the list and wait another 6 weeks, or maybe they'll hold the part for me (doubtful)...
If you aren't in a rental that could explain why, Acura/Honda just spent $1300 on my rental for the last 30 days and just got it renewed for another 30 since there was no update at my local dealer on availability.
This seems totally unreasonable. I can understand having a limit for a customer to contact the dealership but once the customer has acknowledged that the part is in, holding it for them seems like the right thing to do.
Yeah... I did own my own business in the past, so I do see their position, but I think something like 3 business days might be a bit more reasonable (Although their service hours are very very reasonable, even on weekends), or if a customer acknowledges that the parts are in but won't be in town for the weekend, I think it is just good customer service to keep it another 24 hours (And maybe if the service dept and sales dept CRM database were integrated, they would see that I've been negotiating on a new TLX)
Originally Posted by csmeance
If you aren't in a rental that could explain why, Acura/Honda just spent $1300 on my rental for the last 30 days and just got it renewed for another 30 since there was no update at my local dealer on availability.
Yeah, they seemed to think I was in a rental... They kept saying that I would need to pay for my rental after 72 hours of notification... (But my SA knows I don't have a rental and he said 4 to 6 weeks for parts to come in)... Oh well - I already made the personal choice to drive my car instead of getting a rental (personal choice, I know the potential consequences, so we can skip over the lecturing/debating ) Hopefully they hold onto it until Tuesday (might give my personal SA a call and see if he can make that happen for me).
Just got a call from my dealership saying that my inflator was in (It's been just under 6 weeks since I ordered it with my SA) BUT they say that they can only hold it for 72 hours... which, unfortunately, is over this particular weekend, when I'm out of town until Tuesday afternoon... I asked if they could hold it until Tuesday evening, but they said they can only hold it for 72 hours (Monday evening) and to call and see... That doesn't sound all that promising to me Maybe I'll get bumped back to the end of the list and wait another 6 weeks, or maybe they'll hold the part for me (doubtful)...
Originally Posted by RenoTL
This seems totally unreasonable. I can understand having a limit for a customer to contact the dealership but once the customer has acknowledged that the part is in, holding it for them seems like the right thing to do.
This is quite unreasonable, I'm in shock over this actually...let me explain...
I work for a Honda dealership in VA and we are also dealing with this airbag inflator ordeal with almost all of our models, so I'm very aware of how the process works. With that said, holding an inflator for only 72 hours for a client is ridiculous. What are they gonna do with it if you're not there within the 72 hour window? Use it for another client? Bullshit...
When we order airbag inflators, they are VIN specific and MUST go to the vehicle they were ordered for. The only time we're able to use inflators for vehicles they weren't ordered for is in extreme circumstances that are authorized by the service and parts manager(me) as well as our warranty administrator. All three are involved in swapping these controlled parts from one client to another. I understand the dealership needs to get the clients who are in loaner vehicles taken care of for the sake of costs but 72 hours to claim the part is complete bullshit. We've had around 50 clients in loaner vehicles since this latest wave of inflator recalls began and guess what...? We called them all just as soon as their parts arrived and got them in here and taken care of. We were persistent of course but that's how business works. If you're still on the fence about the validity of a 72 hour window, listen to this...we've had inflators sitting on our shelves for specific clients for weeks now, circumstances notwithstanding, that's where they'll stay until those specific clients arrive for replacement. American Honda is being incredibly thorough with this recall, from the notification of the recall to it's clients, to the multi-step procedure of ordering replacement inflators to the billing and warranty procedures, all of which must be followed exactly. I've been involved with this ordeal since day 1 at both Acura and now Honda. That 72 hour window is reasonable, in my opinion...however there should be an avenue clients can take with their local dealership to extend this time frame if need be.
Let me be a little more clear about my previous post...72 hours is a 3 day window for clients to get their cars in for the inflator replacement...that seems like a decent amount of time. However, that window should be able to be extended by your dealership if you're not able to make it there in time. To put my words into pictures, check these out...the first three are all special ordered inflators awaiting install for specific clients and the last pic is of a pallet being prepped for shipment back to Honda for warranty claim. Each pallet holds 200 inflators, this is the 3rd pallet we've prepped for shipment within the past 12 days. Do the math...
This is quite unreasonable, I'm in shock over this actually...let me explain...
I work for a Honda dealership in VA and we are also dealing with this airbag inflator ordeal with almost all of our models, so I'm very aware of how the process works. With that said, holding an inflator for only 72 hours for a client is ridiculous. What are they gonna do with it if you're not there within the 72 hour window? Use it for another client? Bullshit...
When we order airbag inflators, they are VIN specific and MUST go to the vehicle they were ordered for. The only time we're able to use inflators for vehicles they weren't ordered for is in extreme circumstances that are authorized by the service and parts manager(me) as well as our warranty administrator. All three are involved in swapping these controlled parts from one client to another. I understand the dealership needs to get the clients who are in loaner vehicles taken care of for the sake of costs but 72 hours to claim the part is complete bullshit. We've had around 50 clients in loaner vehicles since this latest wave of inflator recalls began and guess what...? We called them all just as soon as their parts arrived and got them in here and taken care of. We were persistent of course but that's how business works. If you're still on the fence about the validity of a 72 hour window, listen to this...we've had inflators sitting on our shelves for specific clients for weeks now, circumstances notwithstanding, that's where they'll stay until those specific clients arrive for replacement. American Honda is being incredibly thorough with this recall, from the notification of the recall to it's clients, to the multi-step procedure of ordering replacement inflators to the billing and warranty procedures, all of which must be followed exactly. I've been involved with this ordeal since day 1 at both Acura and now Honda. That 72 hour window is reasonable, in my opinion...however there should be an avenue clients can take with their local dealership to extend this time frame if need be.
-greg
Thanks for your insight from behind the scenes, Greg, much appreciated. Maybe Pohanka is just blowing smoke in mirrors to get people in quicker, I have no clue... I plan on giving them a call today and seeing if they'll hold it until tmrw, and then call again tmrw before making that long trip to Chantilly from DC/Rosslyn. The lady who called me seemed to play more of a receptionist/paper pusher type of role and didn't really know how to answer any of my questions - hopefully my regular SA can clear things up for me.
Thanks for your insight from behind the scenes, Greg, much appreciated. Maybe Pohanka is just blowing smoke in mirrors to get people in quicker, I have no clue... I plan on giving them a call today and seeing if they'll hold it until tmrw, and then call again tmrw before making that long trip to Chantilly from DC/Rosslyn. The lady who called me seemed to play more of a receptionist/paper pusher type of role and didn't really know how to answer any of my questions - hopefully my regular SA can clear things up for me.
No problem, I'm here to help any way I can...sounds like you got a call from Pohanka's call center...basically a bunch of people who have little to no automobile knowledge and simply answer phones and relay messages. It pains me to say that, they are my co-workers after all but in all honesty, they know very little about anything in the auto business. I would definitely get in touch with your service advisor to set up a time to bring your car by. Hopefully you are working with either Jerry Soriano or Steve Phillips...they know what they're doing over there...cant say the same for anyone else as a lot has changed since I left that dealership. If you need any other advice or help, let me know. I will do all I can. Good luck!
at least the maintenance indicator was kind enough to come on for service on the way to the dealer - took care of oil and filter change and rear breaks at the same time.
I did see at the parts dept - much like the photos from Greg above - stacks and stacks of airbag boxes at the parts dept.
07-11-2016, 07:02 PM
JAY RAMEY - J
Maybe I'll get bumped back to the end of the list and wait another 6 weeks, or maybe they'll hold the part for me (doubtful)...
