KeithL

OK Not looking to start a big debate here, just curious. As you can see I love my Acuras. I can get out of my M37 now with a decent deal on 2 cars. First I can get back into a TL AWD Advance for $41K. Or I can get an Audi A4 Quattro Prestige with Sport package (not S-Line) for around $45K. I drove them both back to back today and was lucky because it has been raining all day. Both cars have about the same potential resale value percentage in about 2 years. If I ride out my lease I will be in a jam for 4-6 months before the TLX comes out, even if I extend my lease 2-3 months I still am stuck. And if they do like the RLX and the 4G where the AWD lags by a few months we are probably 18 months away from an AWD TLX.

This was my first real drive in an Audi and have to say I was impressed. Car was very well assembled and the build quality felt great. The interior seemed a tad tight, but very comfortable. I liked the nice balance of the steering, boosted well at low speed and tightened up at speed. The ride quality was very good, smooth with good feedback. The sales guy had me throw the ar into corners int he rain I would never have attempted and was actually a tad nervous. You could feel the traction control and Quattro really bring the car back every time you thought it was going to let go. The 2.0T actually was very good, I never felt real turbo lag. The GF had a Turbo RDX and Honda turbo was god awful. The Audi leather did not feel as good as the TL and the interior while well executed came off a bit simple, but elegant. The back seat was cramped if I had the seat back, but I never have any people back there. I had a brief encounter with the B&O sound system, but in the little I heard it was acceptable, better than the crappy Bose in my M37, not sure how close it was to the ELS. Audi's MMI was nice much more responsive than I remember it when I checked out an A4 back in 09. I really wanted to look at the Audi A4 with S-Line, but those damn faux suede seats really turn me off. I did drive an S4, really awesome car, just not sure it is worth the additional premium as the A will satisfy 95% of my driving.

I felt at home immediately in the TL, and have to say it felt a tad softer than I remember my 09 was. I suspect the Goodyears are part of that reason. While I like the TL ride it was more firm all around and did not handle bumps as smoothly as the Audi. One thing I have been spoiled with in my M37 is the huge side mirrors that give you great side visibility. The TL navi screen is bigger and seems to be a bit clearer, but it is showing its age.the 12 Refresh helps, but I am still not in love with TL looks, but I dealt with my 09 for 18 months before dumping it, I suspect I can do that again to bridge me to a TLX.


So I know I am opening a can or worms here, but I would be interested in what others think, especially if you came from an Audi?

BEAR-AvHistory

This one should be a lot of fun to watch.

KeithL

Yeah I know, I just hope this does not get off the rails too fast.

saturno_v

The short and simple personal opinon is go with the TL...fire at me as much as you want but, while the Audi may have some nicer touch (if you hit the checklist) the fundamental points are:

- The TL is bigger, roomier.

- The seats are in another class altogether IMHO

- You get a super smooth V6 with 305 horses vs. a 4 banger with ~200 horses...while the 8 speed Audi auto gearbox with tweaked low gears and the car lighter weight may allow the A4 to hold its own on the 0-60 (from a standing still), in real world acceleration the TL SH-AWD blows the A4 2.0 T out of the water (personal experience)

- Much nicer, richer interiors

- Torque Vectoring

- Higher statistical reliability

- Much more distinctive look (last point heavily subjective of course)


It is really a no brainer, again, in my opinion the TL overall belong to a higher segment.
Especially coming from a beautiful Infiniti M, the A4 would be a serious downgrade in my book.

saturno_v

Keith any thoughts on the Hyundai Genesis R-Spec??

For 46K you can put your butt on a V8 429 horses super smooth luxury sedan.....A4 money for 550 or M56 segment...assuming you do nto need the AWD....

docboy

Keith,

I posted a similar thread comparing the TL vs A4 a few years ago, and it was eventually locked, lol.

Having owned the TL 6MT for 3+ years now, I have to agree with Saturno_v, the A4 would a downgrade compared to the TL and the M37. In summary the A4 has less power due to its 4 banger, has less room than the 4G TL, and its MMI system IMHO is less intuitive than Acura's nav. If one buy's the A4, one has deal with its DI engine's carbon engine issues; at the time I was looking in 2009, the A4 had unresolved shaking/control arm/suspension issues (which turned me away from the A4 then). If you lease, maintenance is a non issue. The 4G TL's performance, esp the 6MT, is more lines with that of the S4.

I would consider the S4 or A6 instead if you want to keep in lines with the 4G TL's performance or interior room. Otherwise IMHO the A4 would a relative downgrade in an otherwise solid AWD vehicle. :my2cents:

Edward'TLS

If you're driving the M37 right now, you should look at the RLX and the A6 instead.

Is there any reason why you want to downgrade to the TL and the A4 ?

potmilkz

well one thing i can tell you.. your audi will be back at the dealer in about 4-6 months for repairs.. so yea.. you choose..

sh-awd tl vs other cars.. ok.. but never a audi

KeithL

I really am trying to set myself up for a TLX in 18 months and the Genesis while a nice car does not hold good value (like my M37) so I would be stuck in it for probably 2-3 years and the new Genesis is about 11 months away. Audi and Acura hold value very well.

KeithL

I like the M37, but honestly it is not built as good, and while the sticker price says it is a better car reality says it is over priced for what your get. Infiniti electronics and not as good as the competition, their voice commands are very limited, the Bose 5.1 system is average at best. The car rides real nice, but is top heavy. I miss that solid feel of Acura which I felt the Audi demonstrated as well. The Infiniti just does not feel tightly put together, you can feel all the weight reductions in the doors, hood, truck.

Also resale value sucks and I am tied of paying the high money factor of leases 4-5% vs. I can get .99 interest on a buy.

KeithL

A6 the way I want it is too pricey as for the RLX, while I will reserve final judgement for when I see it in person, just is not doing it for me, especially at $61K. I find the exterior styling just a bit disjointed and the interior is a tad conservative. The wood looks fake, at least in pictures. The only reason to stay in the M37 now would be the dealer can get me into the identical car at $50 less a month than I am paying now, and the 13 M37 has a few goodies I don;t have in mine (rear sonar, trunk clincher, Infiniti Connection Service - their form of On Star)

saturno_v

If you are leasing why worry too much about depreciation?? And put it in this way, think abou the coin you save initially with an R-Spec considering the money you would need to fork to have similar performance on an M56 or a 550.....

saturno_v

Keith

Too bad you are disappointed with the M37....I did not realize that the electronics and the stereo are disappointing, personally when I sit inside I get the feeling of the M being more luxurious and "richer" than a 5 Series or an A6...for me the M has the best interiors in the class hands down and the seats are frankly fantastic IMHO.
As far as the weight reductions, I gladly welcome them, the 5 Series, for example, it got a bit too porky for me (even if I like it a lot)
Did you get the Sport Package in your M???

BEAR-AvHistory

Really wish I could predict lottery numbers the way I predicted who would jump on this thread. Two more names & its the power ball win.

One of them is really late posting so I hope he does show up.

saturno_v

I'm happy you get entertained so easily... what about giving your personal input on the question the OP asked....he asked for an opinion did he??

Still trying to figure out why you are still on an Acura forum after all...

Shoot2Thrill

Just to bash the 4g and Acura. Sad really

KeithL

I was not going to lease this time and even if I did depreciation is important to get out early. This M37 is longest I have held a car in over 12 years, I am at 31 months now, my 04 TL made it 27 months and before that you have to go back to 1993 when I held a Camry XLE for 4 years, otherwise for me it is usually 2 and done.

KeithL

My M37 is the Sport Touring and yes I agree Infiniti knows how to stly a car inside and out, the interior does scream luxury. They know how to make sure everything you touch looks and feels better.
Overall it is a decent car, but for a car that now run around $60K the electronics are behind. You can only voice activate a few things and then you have to go through menus, the Bluetooth sucks and the Bose as I said is decent, but the ELS blows it away. I still have not totally ruled out another M especially since they can get me same car I have now for $50 less a month, but I do miss a car that handles better, the M37 Sport is really more in line with a Lexus GS. While the M37 Sport looks great and I love the 20 inch wheels they are massive and are all show, their weight really hurts the ride and handling.

g37guy01

You think the Bluetooth sucks? I think it's great. I rate compatibility at 98%. Call quality is good. Streaming from iPad, pandora, storm 2 is flawless. Even hooked up vz nav voice output through Bluetooth.

saturno_v

Well I kinda of expect that for a car introduced as MY 2008 the electronics are a bit behind..as they are on a TL too nowadays.

The ELS is particularly good but is not the norm in that price segment.

Buffa

Audi makes absolutely beautiful cars, but have just heard so many stories about repairs/problems, that it scared me away. However my comment is only from what I've heard and read. No personal experience. They still always turn my head on the road though. No doubt.

I have the Advance AWD and love the car more every day. Really a perfect balance of performance and comfort for an every day driver. Unique design, and the Advance's wheel design sets it off IMO.

BEAR-AvHistory

Just one more to go Can't really speak to the A4 have never driven one. The S5 coupe is a very nice car & one to consider.

saturno_v

...so what was the usefulness of your comment?? I haven;t got that part...

docboy

Who else are you expecting to chime in?

Agreed, the S5 coupe is a very nice one to consider. Personally the RS5 has my attention as a possible next vehicle, though I'm weary of its DI/carbon buildup issues.

manutd

From personal experience with Audi, i can tell you that the power and drive is nice. My cousins A4 2009 has had some issues where my friends 2011 A4 is flawless.. its pretty much hit and miss.. have you looked into the GS350?

KeithL

I actually have, and while the interior is OK, I find Lexus a bit pricey as well, and that damn mouse controller for the nav is just awkward, although I am tempted to check out Mark Levinson to see if it as good as I have read. Also not quite as impressive on my maybe list is the ES350 as I read they tightened up the suspension a bit, but my guess is it is still too soft.

BEAR-AvHistory

Well I was trying not to knock the 4G or Acura since as you already know I think the 4G is fugly & would not buy one. There did not seem to be a reason to comment on it.

Moving on to Audi, if I was to get one it would most likely be an S5 Coupe because it would suit me better then an A4 but that's just me. Because of that, I have never really looked at the A4, can’t make a comment on the car other then its quite attractive & is doing very well in the marketplace.

The thing that is obvious without even looking at the cars the A4 is a car moving up with 2758 sales in January while the 4G with only 1497 is not looking to finish its life cycle very strongly.

Honda made a good decision with its quick correction on the new Civic & maybe the new direction for the G5 will do it for Acura.

Nothing personal against Honda since we have two Pilots in the family. Will be transfering one from my daughter to my granddaughter which she will be taking to highschool in a few months. Both are good solid reliable cars.

BEAR-AvHistory

I thought Winstrolvetc would be in close behind SV. The wildcard was compewterbleu.

The RS5 is a good one but that would open it up to the new M4 & Corvette. I will most likely replace the 335is in 2015 & right now have the M4 turbo & Corvette on the top of the list.

vinnier6

iTrader: (1)

i have been looking at an a5 for a while, and just cant get past the 2.0 turbo charged 4 banger....i would be looking at a 45k 4 cylinder car....

docboy

That was the main reason I did not get the A4 a few years ago. Couldn't fathom paying $40-45k for a 4 cylinder car. In hindsight, probably not that important, as its 4 cylinder engine is competitive with some V6s...

KeithL

In what car? I am talking about my M37 their hands free bluetooth is awful, everyone tells me they can't understand me, even my buddy who is on his second G37 gets the same complaints.

KeithL

Yeah, but their 4cyl turbo really has great torque and gets up and goes very well. It holds its own against many a 6cyl. I would say in 90-05% of my driving I would never notice, now maybe when brute power is requires I may, but reality going forward is smaller engines eeking out every possible ft/lb and hp are the future.

Edward'TLS

If you have decided on getting an Audi and is also planning to keep the car for more than 4 years, it is highly advisable to buy extending warranty for your new Audi as well.

The standard Audi factory warranty covers the first 4 years of ownership, and Audi vehicles tend to start requiring expensive attentions right after the 4-yr factory warranty has expired. Hat's off to the Audi engineers who can build their products with such precise service life span.

The B5 A4, that I owned before, had rung up almost 2x the cost of buying extended warranty, in total repair expenses.

Now my C6 A6 is working it's way up to get my full money's worth on the 10-year extended warranty. Repaired items include transmission, power door lock, multiple oil leaks, etc.

Newer Audi vehicles have much improved reliability than they used to be as in the past, but it is still lagging way behind the excellent reliability as offered by the top Japanese makes such as Toyota and Honda.

g37guy01

2011 G. Not sure of the year of your M. 2008? I only had one person tell me they couldn't understand me...and I was in a bad reception area.

Six Shifter

Don't worry ... most of those who comment on non-reliability issues of other cars have never owned one either ... and remember ... their advise is worth every penny you pay them for it. I heard about all the horror stories of the $100 oil changes and thensome in the late 90's for the BMW's, but never experienced anything close for my '98 M3.

To the OP ... I think you'd find the S variants much better across the board than the A models ... however they're equipped. I also echo the other post regarding the A5 ... could never wrap my head around a $50K four-banger ... regardless of it's performance.

Terragotti

The TL says "i am doing good in life but i can do better if i choose to"

The A4 says "I wanted a better Audi but this is all i could afford at the moment"

The TL hands down

lemme14

+1.

g37guy01

I think it would be the other way around. And to be fair one could substitute g37 or whatever for TL.

vinnier6

iTrader: (1)

i just think a car in that price point needs to have 300hp minimum....a 200hp turbo charged 4 is what is holding me back from audi....i liked the a5 more when they offered the 3.2 6.....

docboy

Really? The G37 I can believe...but what if someone bought a Chevy Cruze? I doubt a person who buys a Cruze "can do better if they choose." In general each vehicle has its own targeted demographics/mind set. IMHO.