Blackac12

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

One viscosity grade higher is typically fine for the oil pump. But if it's not burning oil then it probably doesn't matter. I've always run 5W-30 in mine and don't have any problems.

thoiboi

is it broke?



you know what people say about things that ain't broke.

Blackac12

thoiboi

so then don't fix it

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

The tick might just be a valve out of lash. It's not typically detrimental but a valve adjustment may be in order.

Various valvetrain noises can be quieted with thicker oil but it's usually just covering up a problem that should be solved mechanically. That's not always the case though. If there's wear that's not able to be fixed without replacing parts, then thicker oil is probably the way to go. Replacing a cam or valve isn't cheap. But I've torn apart heads on these V6's with well over 200K miles and they've looked pretty good. Not a ton of wear assuming they were taken care of.

Blackac12

frankjnjr

Honda is very specific regarding engine oil specs. I would be reluctant to deviate from Honda's recommendation. Acura recommends 5W20 for my 03 TLS. Currently, my car has 238K, and uses about one pint of oil between 5K change intervals. I used Honda OEM 5W20 Synthetic Blend engine oil, when it was available, than switched to Valvoline 5W20 Max Life High Mileage Synthetic blend. Like thoiboi says, " If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

I don't know that Honda is any different. Every manufacturer is very specific regarding engine oil specs.

I have no proof to back up my theory but I believe that most auto manufacturers, Honda included, indicate as thin an oil as possible since it marginally increases fuel mileage. Fuel economy is a huge deal obviously, so they're going to do anything they can do within reason to increase it. Since oils have come a long way in protective properties despite becoming thinner, this would be yet another variable they could adjust to increase economy. Having said that, I believe that a slightly thicker oil (keyword - slightly) is beneficial to the engine since it provides a little more cushion both at startup and during operation, but without overworking the oil pump or generating excessive heat due to increased friction. I've always used one grade up in viscosity in all my engines none have had any trouble. But I can't argue that an engine would likely have been fine with the thinner oil as well.

My main reason for using one viscosity grade up is because I usually hang onto my vehicles to nearly 300K miles. I have a 2009 Honda Pilot and 2012 TL with 239K and 148K miles respectively and intend on keeping them for a good deal longer. Since I believe that thicker oil helps engine longevity, and that nothing short of engine or transmission failure would cause me to scrap a vehicle, I continue to use thicker oil. All my other Honda's (except my 2006 TL that I crashed ) have run between 220K-290K miles before I sold them. And they were all still running fine. So as far as the "don't fix it if it ain't broken" - for me, the thicker oil has worked, so I'm not going to change.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

The thing about oil during a cold start is the thinner the better. Why? All oil, even 0W-0 (if there was such a thing) is too thick for optimal lubrication until the engine and oil warms up.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

That's a good point. Again, just a theory, but if I'm correct, synthetic oil bonds to engine parts longer after shutoff resulting in more oil present on those parts when you startup cold. This would cause less wear than standard mineral oil on startup. Wouldn't a thicker synthetic oil being present on engine parts result in more of a cushion on startup if that were the case?

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

A few comments in no particular order:

• As it turns out, conventional Group II oils adhere to internal engine components better than synthetic. The age old assumption synthetic was better in this regard was shown to be false when airplanes lubricated with Mobil AV-1 synthetic oil started falling out of the sky (literally); among the issues discovered was that not only did conventional oil have superior surface adherence properties, due to conventional oil's inferior volatility properties, the oil gases would coat internal engine components with a protective layer of what was (at the time) termed "varnish". The reason why this isn't much of an issue with automobiles is they are driven on a very frequent basis; light aircraft often go weeks or months without having the engine(s) started, and normal day/night cooling (which allows water to condense on internal engine components) would cause the internals to rust.
• As for cold start operations, it is a truism that thinner is better, always. Yes, a thick oil might have a better film on some components at cold start, but because thicker oil takes longer to flow in volume and longer to reach the extreme points of the oil galleries, thicker oil following a cold start will always yield more engine wear.
• The good news is 0W-xx oils are widely available, and given they are virtually always Group III or Group IV synthetics (the Honda 0W-20 blend being the only exception I'm aware of), you can have the best of both worlds.
• Personally, I use 0W-20; these oils have stellar UOA results over on BITOG, and over the last 20+ years xW-20 oils have proven to be very robust.

frankjnjr

TRUE:
("I have no proof to back up my theory but I believe that most auto manufacturers, Honda included, indicate as thin an oil as possible since it marginally increases fuel mileage. Fuel economy is a huge deal obviously, so they're going to do anything they can do within reason to increase it. Since oils have come a long way in protective properties despite becoming thinner, this would be yet another variable they could adjust to increase economy." ) Using an oil one viscosity, over or under the manufacturer's recommendation, may not be detrimental to the engine's longevity, however, it is my theory that, since oil is the life blood of the engine, manufacturing design engineers, design and engineer engine components around stress, cooling and oiling system properties, and efficiencies. Hence, a specific oil is recommended. If increased fuel economy was the ultimate goal, I would think every manufacturer would design their engines to operate on the lightest viscosity engine oil available. For you, " the thicker oil has worked ". No problem. To each his own.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm. Well, those are good points. I appreciate the insight. I'm not sure I'll change but I'll consider myself educated

6SpeedTL

Not sure how true this is. From what I read, this same engine in different countries has different oil recommendations (higher viscosity). IMO, the US is 5W20 for fuel economy reasons only.

I have been running 0W40 for 60K miles which have reduced the oil consumption of the 3,7 L.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

Well, I'm convinced that oil discussions are 10% fact, 90% theory, educated guesses and anecdotes. Admittedly, my reasoning behind using one viscosity grade higher is just that - an educated guess based on logic but with very little proof.

However, it's pretty well established that thicker oil can reduce oil consumption. I had an engine with a bad oil ring and using that European formula 0W40 significantly decreased oil consumption with no noticeable adverse effects. The problem is, engine wear is so subtle and requires such a long time and good deal of effort to detect that there's not as much fact as I wish there was. Who's going to run all these different oils in a bunch of engines for a ton of miles, tear all the engines down and look at all the parts? Not to mention you've got a bunch of variables - viscosity, chemistries, additives, brands, change intervals, engine heat, starting temperature differences, driving types, city/highway mileage ratios, which oil filter is used, list goes on and on and on and on.

I watch those YouTube videos that attempt to show some differences in oils and at least prove some differences such as better flow with synthetic vs. conventional and stuff like that. But I've been unable to find really good data on any of the above. Seems to me the best thing most folks use, especially over at Bobistheoilguy, is running an oil analysis with Blackstone. Even then, the differences seem to be minute, like a whopping 2 ppm difference in copper or something between two different scenarios which shows very little. Eventually even the most educated and seasoned "oil experts" seem to just throw their arms in the air and recommend changing your oil with whatever is SAE certified and approved by your automaker and call it a day. Then you have to consider that a very small portion of vehicles that are eventually scrapped are due to engine failure due to oil related wear. So much BEAT IT

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Oil grades and brands, it's the new religion.

Rancher2005

I have to believe that unless your facing extreme cold, above all else use a grade that reduces oil consumption if it is a problem your facing. The recurring loss in oil volume if consumed even at 1/2 quart per interval is going to increase your oil temperature and increase the ppm of particulate in a given sample.

Does anyone run oil stabilizer products like Lucas? Isn't this intended to help the adhesion and wouldn't the thickening effect help to reduce oil consumption as well?

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

No, we don't need any snake oil in our cars, the engines last hundreds of thousands of miles with conventional 5W-20 and normal to long oil changes; no need to pay for crap like Slick 50 and Lucas..

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

I've used Marvel Mystery Oil and Seafoam in the crankcase but only for a short time prior to changing the oil. And that's only been in cars I've purchased used, since I don't trust that the previous owner took good care of it and it might be a bit gummed up. Other than that, I don't run any additives in the oil. I figure if there was an additive that helped the oil, that the oil manufacturers would have already added it.

Anicra

Slick50, I believe it is junk and yet I have nothing bad to say about Lucas products. When comes to oil, I would not trust any conventional oil in any of my car(s). However in the end. it is really each to their own with their car(s).

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Wait, you don't trust conventional oil but you use Lucas?

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

That raised my eyebrow as well. Do you mean that you only trust synthetic and not conventional?

thoiboi

Rancher2005

Horseshoez - I'm relcutant to call it snake oil. I believe it would be effective for some applications. What would you recommend then for both optimal protection and to slow the rate at which oil is consumed in the 3.7's? As many have observed, the first 2,500 miles may not consume much, but thereafter it can be a considerable amount. Typically Acura's consumption test is performed at the first 1,000 mile mark. What is happening to the oil that is causing it to burn at a faster rate? Is it the additional dirt or has some of the additive to protect against burn-off from the oil manufacturer dissipated that it is no longer effective? But more importantly, what do you recommend?

I am thinking synthetic would be more inclined to burn or be consumed past piston rings than conventional (I am thinking on a molecular level it may fit into smaller clearances), but would like your input.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

To each his own, IMHO, it's still snake oil.

dregsfan

Maybe actual snake oil would help reduce consumption, though I don't know what species would be best, or how much oil could be squeezed from a snake and what the viscosity rating would be

OneJay

I've run Valvoline Maxlife 5w-30 in most of my cars for years, and all the UOAs I've have done indicate it's fine. Minimal shear in a non turbo, port injection car, so I wouldn't worry even about a 0w-20 in a TL.

deanoatkinson

At 185k I started noticing oil consumption and loud engine noise on start up. I am on my second attempt (198k miles) I am using conventional 5w20 valvoline max life 5 QT with 1 can of 6-Cylinder Formula Engine Restorer and Lubricant.

The car sat for 2 days without running and when i started it up, no more noise. Hopefully it stays this way. Prior to this even if the car sat over night it would be loud in the morning and worse if it was colder out.

I have about 100 miles + of driving, directions say it takes about 200+ miles for the engine restorer to start really working. It will help restore engine compression as well so you may notice some restored power.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Sorry to say, there is no such a thing as a miracle engine restorer in a can.

Blackac12

I just finished talking to someone who had a older 04 TL and they said about the same mileage as ours they had a heavy tick at start up.

Turned out that a valve adjustment fixed it all and it was very smooth especially when revving the engine