AlphaSalmon

iTrader: (1)

Hello!
I've acquired an '09 Acura TL SH-AWD, back in April, with 150,000 miles on it. It's current power performance definitely leaves something to be desired, compared to the manufacturer's numbers. Is there anything I can do to diagnose what's causing this or correct? I was suggested to Seafoam after I brought it in for the timing belt to be changed, with no noticeable difference.
I'm fairly new to car repair, so any advice is greatly appreciated!

p.s. how do I go about adding a profile image on this site?

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

What leads you to believe your car is down on power?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Honda engines have distinct characteristics....you have to rev the piss out of them to make power.
we make peak power from 5000-7000 RPM.
Good luck and happy Vtec'ing!

AlphaSalmon

iTrader: (1)

My 0 to 60 is currently barely under 7 seconds, and what I can find online, it should be about 5.5 to 6 seconds. Are my numbers just wrong on the under 6?

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

No, that's about right. I believe 5.4 seconds is the stated spec.

Acceleration can be affected by weight, tires, engine/transmission condition and shifting points. If you mash down on the accelerator, the transmission should shift at about the right points but if you use the paddle shifters you can push it a bit further. While engine wear isn't usually a factor (ironically), general tune up items could potentially leave the car less efficient than it could otherwise be.

If it were me, I'd give it a good strong tune up. Coolant (unless it was fully replaced during the timing belt service), PCV cleaning/replacement, ERG cleaning, throttle body cleaning, air filter, spark plugs, 3x3 transmission fluid "flush", front end alignment (not absolutely critical if it's not pulling to the side), brake system bleed, drive belt replacement (if not done with timing belt service), oil change unless it was recently done - at the very least, premium conventional. Synthetic preferably. Fuel system cleaner like Techron or Seafoam. I added Techron for the first 5 fill-ups after I purchased the car. I also do Seafoam in the crankcase every 20-30K miles. Read up on that if interested. All kinds of goodies came out when I did that....

Will any of that stuff make you go faster? There's a good chance that it won't. But at least you'll know that the car is in the best condition it's going to get and you can then concede with your slower speed At that point, start modding if you have the cash

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

If I'm not mistaken, zero to sixty times are typically arrived at by abusing the car and are not typically obtainable under normal driving practices. For cars with manual transmissions, the best times are when performing a clutch dump at some optimal RPM, and for automatic equipped cars, the best times are gotten by holding the brake while applying power up to some optimal RPM before letting off the brake. Both practices abuse the drivetrain and are not all that typical when driving on the roads with other traffic.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^lol you know how many mounts ive broken? all three engine mounts, and 1 tranny mount....ALL from launching hard.
broken mounts lead to broken exhaust pieces...LOL had to repair my PCD's like 4 times! cracks at the welds from all the drivetrain stress.
luckily, i dont ever wheel hop....or else MORE BROKEN THINGS! lol

yes, I abuse her. but i put her back together with love.

AlphaSalmon

iTrader: (1)

Thanks! So far from your list, I've done timing(with that, coolant, pulleys, water pump, drive belt, and spark plugs), air filter with a K&N, full synthetic oil, trans fluid flush, full alignment with progress 22mm sway bar and adjustable control arms and ball joints, and one full tank of gas with Seafoam. I'll try to get around this weekend to cleaning the EGR and throttle body and see what that does, probably not much though.

I do know for a fact that my 3rd cat is plugged, could that be a huge issue with lower speed acceleration?

AlphaSalmon

iTrader: (1)

I should add by plugged, it's about 20-30%.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

fix the cat

NBP04TL4ME

Absolutely yes - the cat will make a difference. Get it fixed!!

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

Fixed

AlphaSalmon

iTrader: (1)

Noted, haha. I know a delete does not throw Check Engine(not that I really care), but would a delete or a high-flow be a better option in my case of trying to bring my 0-60 back in spec?

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Yikes, if you had shared that with us at first, none of the rest of this discussion would have been necessary. As others have said, fix, as in replace, the cat.

AlphaSalmon

iTrader: (1)

Gotcha, totally slipped my mind until it cats were mentioned.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

It's all good, no worries; remember to keep us posted.

hoonee46

Fix the cat.
Also, I don't think you can achieve the 0-60 time just by flooring the gas pedal from a stop.

I'm sure most know this, but just in case:
1. from a stop, step on the brake pedal with left foot. You want to press it firm enough that the car doesn't move during step2.
2. give it some gas with right foot, maybe half throttle, and wait a second for the rpm to build - you don't want to do this for over maybe 2-3 seconds.
3. once rpm is at 2-3k, floor the gas pedal and release the brake, almost simultaneously but not quite.

that should shave a few tenths off of the 0-60
You should be in S mode, as it changes shift map for the transmission.
Per hondanews: "In Manual shift mode, both transmissions [FWD and AWD] deliver improved performance as a result of revised shift map
programming."
http://www.hondanews.com/releases/20...rain?year=2008

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

What I was referring to was replacing the stock j-pipe and 3rd cat with a long j-pipe from RV6 or XLR8. You'll gain a bit of power and fix your cat problem at the same time That will raise the emission status of the vehicle from ULEV (ultra low emission vehicle) to a LEV (low emission vehicle) but the vast majority of the work is done by the pre-cats anyway.

hoonee46

cats are expensive. Might not even be much of a difference between stock cat $$ and upgrade $$ (I might be wrong)
catless yields more gain.

deanoatkinson

I just picked up my 2012 TL with 180k miles on it.

Spark Plugs, $50-60
New Air filter
Seamfoam in gas tank
Seamfoam in crankcase, drove 300 miles then oil change
Seamfoam throttle body cleaner with the straw to clean the inside of the engine.
Biggest gain All 4 O2 Sensors $250 Disconnect your battery for a few minuets and let the new sensors do their job.

That's about it for now.

deanoatkinson

Just completed the rear O2's what a PITA but my idle dip / issue is gone and noticeably more power throughout the power band. I will replace the front 2 next weekend once they get shipped to me and my back heals

deanoatkinson

I have just completed all 4 O2's.
Damn now the car moves! Just because the check engine light isn't on doesn't mean they are slowing down or lagging.

I can report back in on any gas mileage improvements.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

^ Thanks for the info. Those aren't cheap though. I might consider cleaning mine but replacing all four would set you back a few hundred $$.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

I've never seen anybody successfully clean their O2 sensors; once they get lazy they're pretty much toast. That said, typically upstream O2 sensors are the only ones which will require changing.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

yep...on the J the upstream are the A/F...downstream are just dirty air sniffers.
Also, once you do what you do, the CEL might take a bit to clear. Car has to cycle through a few times and be happy.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

Good to know. What are the symptoms of a "lazy" O2 sensor?

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

As a general rule, the first indication is a sudden drop in fuel economy. Left long enough I have seen anecdotal reports which indicate non-WOT acceleration can be impacted as well.

AlphaSalmon

iTrader: (1)

I TOTALLY forgot about this thread... haha. But here's an update.

Changed all 4 O2 sensors (getting those pigtails out of the clips was a pain to do in the back of the engine) and installed a j-pipe ith the cat delete, MPG has gone up to 19, so that's at least an improvement! Have not noticed any incease in engine performance, though

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I replaced my upstream O2's but didn't notice anything. I still consider it money well spent since I had about 130K on the car. Not that replacing parts for no reason is a good idea, but those are pretty critical to performance/mileage/operation of the engine.

You didn't notice any increase with the J-pipe? I'll admit, it wasn't night and day for me either. The stock J-pipe on the 4G is less constrictive than the one on the 3G, so gains aren't quite as pronounced. The HFPC's are what did it for me. Combined with the J-pipe and magnaflows, it really freed up some power. Not a ton, but enough to be worth the time and money for me.

JM2010 SH-AWD

If your car is an automatic, don't expect 0-60 times of 5.4. The best times I've seen for the 4G were for that 6MT at 5.2, but no doubt those times involved a serious clutch dump. Particularly on the 5AT cars like yours, automatic 0-60 times were quite a bit slower, in the 6.5 second range.