Recommendation for all newcomers: Get the AWD!
12-23-2013, 08:43 AM
#41
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC - USA
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Hey, Kevin, don't talk down to me, OK? I know all that. When I said American, I defined that as the so called traditional big three. People and the papers still refer to them as "the American companies". The HQs for the other guys are not in America, although the cars are built in NA and Mexico. I know about the U.S. states and Ontario too, trying to obtain production plants by lavishing huge amounts of tax payers' dollars on already profitable car companies. My "beef" with Chrysler, Ford, and GM is that 1. they screwed us for so long until the Japanese came along, and 2. their dealerships continue to treat customers like dirt.
I expect Made in the USA is pretty important to Americans working in Honda, Toyota, BMW etc plants all over the country more so than to a Ford or Chevy being Hecho en Mexico.
12-23-2013, 01:21 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
The same was true in the motorcycle industry. When people think of American bikes, they think Harley Davidson, but many don't know that that company has "ridden the bubble" a few times, and for awhile, particularly after labour unrest arising when the workforce was slashed to help compete with the imports, their quality was something of a joke. They've lobbied a couple of times for insanely restrictive tariffs on imports, with the 1983 tariff arguably saving the company from disappearing altogether.
As for the dealerships, well that comes down to individual experience. From my experience, when I settled on my TL, it meant walking away from a Chev product...the toughest part being I really wanted to buy a car from that salesman. As for Acura, we have two dealerships in this City...one is fantastic, the other, a waste of real estate. Sadly, the good one in not the one close to my home.
12-23-2013, 02:50 PM
#43
Burning Brakes
This reminds me of a Monty Python sketch.
Somehow a simple expression of opinion gets turned into an argument.
The original post was that everyone should buy the awd TL rather than the fwd TL. I think the OP was just reacting to the weather lately and posing a subject for sem-serious discussion. As usual, we got off topic.
Somehow a simple expression of opinion gets turned into an argument.
The original post was that everyone should buy the awd TL rather than the fwd TL. I think the OP was just reacting to the weather lately and posing a subject for sem-serious discussion. As usual, we got off topic.
12-23-2013, 03:20 PM
#44
Burning Brakes
This reminds me of a Monty Python sketch.
Somehow a simple expression of opinion gets turned into an argument.
The original post was that everyone should buy the awd TL rather than the fwd TL. I think the OP was just reacting to the weather lately and posing a subject for sem-serious discussion. As usual, we got off topic.
Somehow a simple expression of opinion gets turned into an argument.
The original post was that everyone should buy the awd TL rather than the fwd TL. I think the OP was just reacting to the weather lately and posing a subject for sem-serious discussion. As usual, we got off topic.
I just like it when people think I'm smrt.
12-24-2013, 08:39 AM
#46
Account closed
Snows...
Running Pirelli PZero Scotto II's on my TSX and TL (AWD) and can get through anything.
The AWD is really even overkill with the snows, the AWD just kills it so we never have to worry if we need to go someplace when it snows. Truthfully we kind of enjoy blowing past the SUV's on the highway as they slip and slid on their "all season" tires.
The issue is that "all season" (quotes due to the fact they are really THREE season tires), they are only good ABOVE 40F below that the tires get too hard to handle snow. The snows on the other hand need to come off the cars when the temp rises as they are not designed for above 50F.
AWD is great and I love my TL in all seasons, but for snow, snow tires are the answer.
BTW, I've used Bizzaks, Michelin X-ice and the Pirelli Scotto II's, truthfully not much difference. I think the Pirelli's are better in the dry is about the only difference.
Running Pirelli PZero Scotto II's on my TSX and TL (AWD) and can get through anything.
The AWD is really even overkill with the snows, the AWD just kills it so we never have to worry if we need to go someplace when it snows. Truthfully we kind of enjoy blowing past the SUV's on the highway as they slip and slid on their "all season" tires.
The issue is that "all season" (quotes due to the fact they are really THREE season tires), they are only good ABOVE 40F below that the tires get too hard to handle snow. The snows on the other hand need to come off the cars when the temp rises as they are not designed for above 50F.
AWD is great and I love my TL in all seasons, but for snow, snow tires are the answer.
BTW, I've used Bizzaks, Michelin X-ice and the Pirelli Scotto II's, truthfully not much difference. I think the Pirelli's are better in the dry is about the only difference.
12-24-2013, 09:53 AM
#47
Snows...
Running Pirelli PZero Scotto II's on my TSX and TL (AWD) and can get through anything.
The AWD is really even overkill with the snows, the AWD just kills it so we never have to worry if we need to go someplace when it snows. Truthfully we kind of enjoy blowing past the SUV's on the highway as they slip and slid on their "all season" tires.
The issue is that "all season" (quotes due to the fact they are really THREE season tires), they are only good ABOVE 40F below that the tires get too hard to handle snow. The snows on the other hand need to come off the cars when the temp rises as they are not designed for above 50F.
AWD is great and I love my TL in all seasons, but for snow, snow tires are the answer.
BTW, I've used Bizzaks, Michelin X-ice and the Pirelli Scotto II's, truthfully not much difference. I think the Pirelli's are better in the dry is about the only difference.
Running Pirelli PZero Scotto II's on my TSX and TL (AWD) and can get through anything.
The AWD is really even overkill with the snows, the AWD just kills it so we never have to worry if we need to go someplace when it snows. Truthfully we kind of enjoy blowing past the SUV's on the highway as they slip and slid on their "all season" tires.
The issue is that "all season" (quotes due to the fact they are really THREE season tires), they are only good ABOVE 40F below that the tires get too hard to handle snow. The snows on the other hand need to come off the cars when the temp rises as they are not designed for above 50F.
AWD is great and I love my TL in all seasons, but for snow, snow tires are the answer.
BTW, I've used Bizzaks, Michelin X-ice and the Pirelli Scotto II's, truthfully not much difference. I think the Pirelli's are better in the dry is about the only difference.
12-26-2013, 05:17 PM
#48
This reminds me of a Monty Python sketch.
Somehow a simple expression of opinion gets turned into an argument.
The original post was that everyone should buy the awd TL rather than the fwd TL. I think the OP was just reacting to the weather lately and posing a subject for sem-serious discussion. As usual, we got off topic.
Somehow a simple expression of opinion gets turned into an argument.
The original post was that everyone should buy the awd TL rather than the fwd TL. I think the OP was just reacting to the weather lately and posing a subject for sem-serious discussion. As usual, we got off topic.
And yeah, I'm on All season tires right now. Not the best for winter though.
12-31-2013, 05:03 PM
#50
I also think American brand dealerships aren't given the product and service support by the manufacturers, which leaves them too ignorant to fix problems right the first time, which leaves them a little defensive (and sometimes rude) toward dissatisfied customers.
We chose to take a risk with a 2012 Durango R/T (had the towing capacity we needed in the size we wanted and is still a good value for the features and space you get). We've only had one real failure on it (power lift gate), and the occasional issue of "dies after it starts", which requires a PITA cycling of the car all the way off before a restart since the security system apparently allows it to crank without sending spark when you try a restart from "run" mode (poor software design, IMHO - why have the starter crank 20 seconds without sending spark?). After 4 trips to two different dealers, the power lift gate still only works intermittently, and we get the dreaded "could not duplicate, no codes showing on the computer" regarding the other issue. My 2010 TL has actually had one or two more issues than the Durango over its four years of life, but all fixed the first time under warranty, which leaves me more satisfied with the Acura than the Dodge from a reliability perspective despite the "issue count".
We chose to take a risk with a 2012 Durango R/T (had the towing capacity we needed in the size we wanted and is still a good value for the features and space you get). We've only had one real failure on it (power lift gate), and the occasional issue of "dies after it starts", which requires a PITA cycling of the car all the way off before a restart since the security system apparently allows it to crank without sending spark when you try a restart from "run" mode (poor software design, IMHO - why have the starter crank 20 seconds without sending spark?). After 4 trips to two different dealers, the power lift gate still only works intermittently, and we get the dreaded "could not duplicate, no codes showing on the computer" regarding the other issue. My 2010 TL has actually had one or two more issues than the Durango over its four years of life, but all fixed the first time under warranty, which leaves me more satisfied with the Acura than the Dodge from a reliability perspective despite the "issue count".
12-31-2013, 05:43 PM
#51
AWD is more fun in the winter too 
01-01-2014, 05:41 PM
#52
Even though I'm not in snow country, I was only considering the SH-AWD due to handling/cornering. Me no likey torque steer either.
Not sure what else to say other than "to each his/her own"...
Not sure what else to say other than "to each his/her own"...
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