Blaze9

Here I am, back inside my house after shoveling snow for a good 15-20 minutes around the wheels of my FWD TL in order to get it out of a measly 10-11 inches of snow. Car wouldn't budge. Wheels spin, snow melted turned to sludge and the process continued.

It's worth it. Just do it. I'm not in the position to trade in my FWD for an AWD, but if anyone here is thinking about the FWD over the AWD... Just don't. I regret it almost every day.

C8N

I guess its that time of the year...
But when spring comes around... some may say... it wasn't too bad to warrant a AWD.

Nonetheless... SH-AWD is not only for wet and/or snowy days.... fun in the dry as well!

Blaze9

One of my good friends has an 09 AWD. It's amazing, I've driven it here and there. Mostly feels the same on the highway, but turns and getting up to speed is amazing. Hugs the corners like a champ.

C8N

When I went to drive the SH-AWD, the sales person told me to push it in the corners. My thoughts were... is this guy nuts? When I came out of that turn, I was pretty much sold. You get that little push at the opposite rear wheel and I always get a kick out of it.

The down side is, the stock michelins are pretty crappy in my opinion. I can't help but wonder how much better this car would be with a good set of tires.

potmilkz

i am in socal, dont care if awd or not.. lol

Devil Dog 21

SH-AWD is the real deal for rain, snow, and dry. That being said I would have bought FWD if I was in Socal like Potmilkz

By the way Potz, when are you going to change that profile pic? That dude creeps me out.

Booya4139

Set of Blizzaks and you'd have been fine... Invest in some good snow tires, which gives you an excuse to buy a nice set of summer wheels and tires...

dnd2984

iTrader: (6)

Hi, I don't think its the FWD thats the issue, but the tires. I lived in WV for almost 4 years and only once was I stuck. During winter month I drove my 2001 TL with Bridgestone Serenity tires and no issues. The time we got stuck was my wifes CRV which was also 2wd(stock tires). I am sure the awd will help, but in my experience a 2 wheel drive with proper tires can get the job done.

mynameisjacob

Even if you had SH-AWD... I doubt you can muscle your way out of 10-11 inches of snow. Maybe with MDX... but not with a TL.

I own mine in NYC which took in about 3-4 inches this past weekend. I took the old SHAWDy out for a joyride. NYC plows were snoozing (again) and there was heavy accumulation, even on the highways.

The SH-AWD system does add a greater degree of stability during acceleration and turning but I was wearing stock Michelin tires and I did lose traction quite a bit. Braking and stopping is a different story with non winter tires however so be careful! The VSA system is also top notch btw.

dano

Summer car #1

Summer car #2

dano

Winter car - 2014 FJ Cruiser 4wd

vtec260

^^^^ so what is your point, Dano? We should all buy Toyota FJ's for winter?


Just kidding. Nice toys you have at your disposal.
SH-AWD plus winter tires gives you best equipment to handle winter.
I've driven 25+ years in FWD with or without winter tires and while they do decent job, I wish having AWD at least a few times during each winter.

dano

Thanks vtec260. Actually I just bought the TL and FJ in the last 3 months. I seriously considered buying a new MDX SHAWD Advance instead of those two vehicles, wanting to downsize since I just retired. I thought an MDX and the S2000 were perfect retirement vehicles. I just couldn't bring myself to think about loading up 3 dogs and pulling a camper with such a nice vehicle. So I bought the used 2012 TL Advance (only 20k miles) for our daily driver and a rugged, wash and wear FJ for our camping/dog adventures and winter weather driving. I purchased the 2 for less than the MSRP of the loaded MDX. The S2000 is strictly a weekend car, only 33k miles. Love all 3 cars!

jim_c

This is a serious question here, I'm not trying to be a smartass (this time) but I find this a curious discussion. I understand the point the OP was making which has some validity (but not a lot).
Why would anyone buy a TL SH AWD after reading the numerous posts on Acurazine describing all the serious mechanical issues owners have had to put up with? Prop shaft issues, gas guzzling issues, vibration issues, and importantly torque converter and transmission issues. One former owner even got rid of his TL and bought a Benz because he was so frustrated with his AWD.
Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of Acura and I think my car is very good (a base FWD 2010). (It is a so-called luxury car that has annoying interior rattles but that's not my point at this time.)


BTW, if you are stuck in deep snow you are doing a lot of damage to your auto trans by persisting in trying to bull your way out with wheelspin.

sockpuppet

What?!? That's not Potz? I guess I just assumed...

RIneuron

I have owned a 2010 SH-AWD and a 2013 FWD TL. There is no question that the AWD handles better in corners and foul weather, and has somewhat better power off the line (305 vs 285 HP). But I went for the FWD tech this time because I found the AWD ride a little too harsh, and found a FWD tech in the colors I wanted. The FWD has been OK so far in the snow, but we have not gotten really hammered yet here in RI. The car is still zippy and fun to drive, but doesn't corner like a tank/SH-AWD. The sound system in the tech is clearly superior. The nav I can take or leave---I was happy with Navigon on my iPhone mounted on the dash. Of course you can have AWD AND tech, but I wanted to limit my payments and get a more comfortable ride.

Ziffle

Jim, I can answer your questions at least specific to my situation. I have owned 2 fwd auto TL's, both very good cars. However I actually enjoy driving (most enjoyment had doing track days on my motorcycles) Unfortunately I cannot ride the bikes to work nor haul my family around with them so I do require a 4 door sedan. As a result I now drive a 6sp manual shawd and I can promise you there is no comparison in the driving characteristics of a manual shawd and a fwd auto.

If you want to get from point A to point B the fwd auto is a great car. If you want to get from point A to point B but throw in a bunch of spirited turns along the way, the shawd is a great car. Regarding the problems you mentioned above, so far I have experienced none. For that matter I have had no problems with any of my TL's....one of the main reasons I have continued to drive them.

The only "problem" I would agree with is the gas guzzling. That is largely due to my right foot and not the car. When driven like most normal people drive, the mileage is quite acceptable. The shawd is in fact great in the snow. That being said I would drive one wherever I lived, not at all dependant on weather conditions but simply due to the much better handling (based on the way I drive).

I seem to see this debate on here quite a bit.....shawd is better.....fwd is better....yada yada yada. In my opinion both are great cars and the one that is "better" is the one that fits your needs and driving style the best. Personally I will never go back to the fwd, but I am an enthusiastic driving junkie who is required at this stage of life to own a 4 door sedan as a daily driver.

TeamAcura

That's a loaded question lol.

Actually I believe some of those issues affect the FWD models too and you forgot the oil burning issue. Not everyone will experience any or all of these issues. That is just a small portion out of thousands of owners. Most are happy owners like myself.

OP, next time use kitty litter to get out of the snow.

dano

My previous car was an '07 Infiniti G35X. I loved everything about that car except the size and the less than stellar Bose system. After 60k miles of ownership I never had one issue with that car, not one. No rattles, no transmission issues, fair mpg (low 20s) and the AWD worked flawlessly. There was no ride penalty for going with the AWD either. On the highway it rode as smooth as butter yet the handling was superb since it's based on a RWD set up. Having owned an '01 CL Type S and an '05 TL/Navi prior to the G35 I can say it was a much better car. I lost the tranny on the CL at 25k miles and the '05 TL was plagued by rattles, fading dash, falling headliner and other issues. BUT I decided to give Acura another chance so I traded the G35 for the 2012 TL Advance FWD. I found the SHAWD set up too firm for my tastes (I'm 62). The FWD ride reminds me of the G35's. There is definitely a difference in the handling but not so much that I have any regrets. Plus, I have a 4wd vehicle for winter driving so I don't miss the AWD.

So far I love the TL! No rattles, good mpg, ELS system sounds awesome. I've burnt half my 400+ CD collection to the HDD already. Love that feature!

So newcomers, list the pros and cons of FWD vs SHAWD and base your decision by taking both your needs and your wants into consideration. I don't think you can go wrong no matter what decision you make.

sockpuppet

I’m somewhat surprised by your question, given your location. I’m sure you’ll agree that those without a true winter season cannot fully understand what the term “winter driving” can entail (this is not meant to sound “elitist” or anything…frankly, I dread winter only because of the driving, and would be happy to be rid of it. Let’s punch some holes in that ozone…).

Those who live in climates without snow, or who only get snow for brief periods, cannot fully understand the variability of winter roads, and the benefits of AWD and a good set of winter rubber. It’s not simply about the odd time one gets stuck in deeper snow. That happens, but it’s not a day-to-day thing. There’s no way of fully describing the challenges of driving on that light dusting of initial snow, blowing across the highway, and then comparing that to driving on icy slush when it warms up, and then glare ice when it gets bitter cold again. And then driving through the deeper stuff, when the ruts made by previous vehicles tell your wheels where to go, notwithstanding you maybe disagree. In my view, one of the biggest benefits of AWD is not about getting you out of deep snow, but rather when you hit the gas to cross (or right turn) at an intersection, and rather than going, you just listen to your wheels spin. Particularly dangerous if you have just enough traction to get into the intersection, but not enough to clear it before that incoming truck gets there. AWD helps immeasurably in those situations.

Again, one can’t describe it here. And it’s not enough to visit for a few weeks and try winter driving. It takes the experience of a few full winter seasons in a northern climate to fully appreciate that “winter driving” means a whole lot of different things. And most of them are much better with AWD. Good rubber is, in my view, even more important. But the combination of the two is a real joy. I’ve been to Oakville…you get winter conditions there. So again, I’m surprised by your question.

Oh, and like Ziffle, I haven't experienced any of the issues you noted.

Booya4139

AWD gets you going, winter rubber stops you... My wife has an AWD SUV with AS tires, I have the TL FWD with Blizzaks...As I was driving to beer league hockey through the storm that gave metro boston a bunch of inches i was thinking which handles snow better... Think they are fairly comperable with slightly different attributes..

Hit the brakes with the blizzaks and you realize what a difference good rubber makes. Its not a license to drive like an A-hole, but if you are a smart conscious, safe winter driver, the FWD with snows will get you through anything I encounter in New England winters...

amill

The "issues" that are brought up for the SH-AWD model can be taken with a grain of salt. I can safely say that this forum is composed of less than 5% of all 4G TL buyers. The posters who list issues make up even less than that amount. Take the fact of not having an automatic trans out of it, and I'm left with "oil consumption" and a possible propeller shaft issue. I'll take my chances.

As far as why I went with awd over fwd, it's simple. I despise fwd. I had a 3G TL and could not stand the torque steer from a stand still, the understeer, and yet more torque steer through corners with moderate acceleration. I live in an area that sees some snow, but not enough to warrant the necessity of awd for weather purposes.

Once the snow is deep enough that it negates any ground clearance, you are pretty much screwed whether you have fwd or awd.

It's personal preference, and my preference is a more sport tuned ride and handling....plus a 6MT.

DivinDude

I would like my '12 SH-AWD tech a lot better if the transmission wasn't dying ...

jim_c

Hey, sockpuppet, thanks for your post.
I understand what you are saying, I have been driving for 52 Canadian winters. I know they don't plow the roads in Alberta so I can imagine that you enjoy the awd. I agree it would be better in the really bad stuff but that is very rare for us. I did just return from Fla. last week and I drove my TL on all season tires through the mountains of Va., WVa. and Pennsylvania during "Winter Storm Dion", lol. The interstate was two tiny black tracks if you could find them. It was minus 7C (perfect freezing conditions) and it was raining and sleeting at the peaks. I managed to keep the TL upright for 6 hours in that sh*t.
Yes, awd would have been better, but I have managed this long without it.
To Ziffle, I also understand what you are saying but I don't race or drive aggressively on the street. I raced motorcycles and drove manual shift vehicles for 50 years until I bought my 5AT last year.


I'm not suggesting the awd is not "better" in some ways.
I'm just saying, it has a few cons to go with the pros, and having read all the sad stories on here, I would be leery of buying one myself, and I'm an Acura fan.


Interesting and sensible discussion though.


Oh yeah, Dano, what's a CD? I just play mp3s through the USB or off my phone using the Bluetooth!

dano

CDs were those round discs that took the place of record albums, of which I have 600+. Wish I could convert some of those over to the HDD...lol! MP3s recording is more compressed so to the discerning ear it doesn't sound as good as CDs. I can tell a difference between music on my iphone that I stream thru Bluetooth and the same music burnt to the HDD from a CD. The quality of the ELS system really brings out the difference.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

If you're listening to music on your TL via bluetooth and you have a tech package or above, shame on you.

dano

Amen

thePearl

guilty of this for my first 3 day of owning my tl --- but then i SAW THE LIGHT!!!!

RIneuron

+1

jim_c

I'm not debating or disagreeing. Well, sort of.
My ears are 68 years old so it's somewhat academic.
(Comes in handy when the wife asks why I didn't do suchandsuch, lol.)
Actually I still listen to CDs at times, I was just joshin dano.
I don't have the tech. Don't need it, don't want it.


Not sure how many more cars I will ever buy in my lifetime.
Although the cars are great nowadays compared to the crap we drove over the years, there aren't many I would buy; I limit myself with my prejudices and preconceived notions. I'll never buy German, I'll never buy "American" Ford, GM, or Chrysler or their affiliates, probably won't buy Korean, I probably will not buy a hybrid, so that basically leaves me Honda, Toyota or Mazda, all of which I have owned already. That's why I'm still curious about the awd and future possible TLX or whatever Acura comes up with . I'm quite interested in the Skyactiv also for future consideration. The new Mazda6 looks pretty cool.
Sorry, I'm rambling.

sockpuppet

You've completely left out the Italians. I'm sure you could get Bluetooth in a nice Ferrari or Lambo. Might have to get the "tech" version, but still...

jim_c

Good one! Maybe a Ducati?
Or refer to my comments in Kahta's thread about daily drivers etc!
:-)

dano

Oh man, that's exactly how I feel. I too am constrained by my prejudices and preconceived notions. I LOVE AUDI! Especially the A6/S6. But have never been able to bring myself to own one due to the horror stories of poor reliability and super high maintenance costs. Only 2 American cars have intrigued me in the last decade, the Pontiac G8 and the C7 Vette. The only Korean car I've ever entertained owning is the Hyundai Genesis. So alas, I am left with Honda (Acura), Toyota (Lexus), Nissan (Infiniti) and Mazda.

I can tell you the new Mazda6 is a great car and one I almost pulled the trigger on before I bought my TL. Driving dynamics and engine technology are awesome BUT the infotainment system is pathetic, a deal breaker for me.

WolfieRules

Being an enthusiastic, at minimum, driver with a decent income, I just purchased a TL Tech new, I didn't even research the AWD, just seemed like would be a headache if not foolproof, and it's too complicated to be foolproof.


Living in DFW FWD gets me around fine in occasional winter, but if still lived in Chicago might have looked harder at it. Looked at BMWs, Lexus as well (already had Benz and Volvo) and the TL was just a better value and less to maintain.


Set of 4 snows on FWD (good ones) on some 17 or 16 wheels and you could most likely get through anything, so AWD while cool, just makes me think about repair bills and maybe pushing a bit too hard and it failing or something.

BEAR-AvHistory

The Acura TL is as American as it gets in a world economy. It was developed at the Acura design studio Torrance California & built in Marysville Ohio with 80% US sourced parts. Check out your build label.

If you have a new MDX it was built in LINCOLN, Alabama. The biggest Honda engine plant in the world is in Anna, Ohio. The Russells Point, Ohio Factory is the producer of the transmissions.

Side note the American companies are turning out some world class cars these days & will only get better.

Grigio4G

Here's a picture of my car right after I pulled into this parking lot. Figured snap a pic to show off how it handle any amounts of snow n all...ya right lol. I was stuck in this spot for 25mins with all 4 wheels spinning in one place. Eventually used a snow brush to dig under the car and around the wheels and eventually rocked it back n forth to get out. Love my sh-awd but with lots of snow and all season tires you still have to remind your self that it is not a pick up truck lol

dano

A picture is worth a thousand words!

jim_c

Hey, Kevin, don't talk down to me, OK? I know all that. When I said American, I defined that as the so called traditional big three. People and the papers still refer to them as "the American companies". The HQs for the other guys are not in America, although the cars are built in NA and Mexico. I know about the U.S. states and Ontario too, trying to obtain production plants by lavishing huge amounts of tax payers' dollars on already profitable car companies. My "beef" with Chrysler, Ford, and GM is that 1. they screwed us for so long until the Japanese came along, and 2. their dealerships continue to treat customers like dirt.

jim_c

Nice pic, Grigio. I wish we had that snow instead of the freezing rain we got last night.

Edward'TLS

A set of proper winter tires is a must when the snow really piles up.

Not only does it gives more traction to get the AWD car going, it can also help stopping the car in a shorter distance.