docboy

Thought I would restart the CLA thread again here in 4G TL land; the last one was merged into Cartalk and got lost. So mods, please don't move this thread.

Anyways, the wife and I had a chance to checkout and test drive the CLA yesterday. The stealership here had a basic FWD for test drive, so the wife drove it. It was a basic package, priced at $31.5k (which I'm surprised they had this basic setup b/c of the affluent location). But anyways below are some thoughts:

-Wife loved the exterior styling, enough said. The front styling seemed very SL like.
-I didn't get a chance to drive it, but the dual clutch transmission felt very smooth; the engine seemed to have plenty of torque
-Rated 38 MPG on the HWY!
-Front seats/legroom/headroom seemed OK, perhaps a bit snug, but OK for my 5'11" frame
-The ride was pretty smooth though over road bumps it had a fairly hard thump; this coming from my wife who is a Lexus snob and absolutely HATES the jittery ride of my TL.
-Rear headroom was poor due to the styling; the rear is definitely not for large adults, more for kids or small frame people
-Trunk size was impressive considering the size of the CLA. Plus the trunk space was flat and the rear seats 60/40 split fold back.
-We were at the stealership ~10:30am Sat, and there was a LOT of people checking out the CLA among other models.
-The interior seemed OK. I'm not sure I like the Garmin like screen on top of the dash; sales guy claimed the CLA's interior is designed with Gen Y in mind FWIW. The electronic speedometer is nice.
-The MB dealership here is an absolute knockout. The showroom was huge and bright and warm, had lots of free tasty muffins/bagels/cream, coffee, various drinks, etc. Lots of families there. You'd think you were at a 5 star hotel dining in. YMMV.

My brief impressions are that the CLA will sell on its styling (and badge) alone. Enough said. WRT to styling, the exterior styling on Acura's sedans CANNOT compete with Mercedes. The interior didn't do much for me, but the split folding rear seats are nice. So this small sized CLA has more utility and trunk space than the mid-sized 4G TL, wtf??

We'll probably go back again to check out the CLA again (plus get more free muffins lol). But I think MB has a knockout here with the CLA due to its styling and entry level price. I speced out a FWD CLA for ~$36k MSRP, and it seems that the CLA would easily steal customers who would normally shop for the G37/Q50/TSX/TL even though the dimensions of the CLA are smaller than the sedans I listed.

I also think the general public will think: At the mid $30k price point, I can get a Mercedes. Why get an Acura, Infiniti, or Cadillac if I can get a Benz?

Acura, you clearly need to step it up, esp wrt exterior design. The upcoming NSX is a great start, and that design language IMHO should have been trickled down to the RLX and TLX. But if the RLX and ILX are any indication of exterior design, I don't have much hopes for the TLX's exterior design... since exterior design and styling seems to be many people are looking for.

usdmJON

shurik74

who cares about MB's here... I don't...

If I would go to german segment of cars, Audi would be DA BEST... my 2c

BEAR-AvHistory

Good post The trouble Acura will find itself in is not breaking into Tier I but having Tier I nameplates in the $30K region to compete with its bread & butter cars.

Mr Marco

Saw a review, actually pictured myself in the drivers seat. Then came to my senses and realized how much I dislike Merc's and their owners.

hadokenuh

I agree 100% with you on this. I also think that the Germans has already realized their break-n-butter cars have got expensive lately (3-series, C-class, A4) so they are building more entry level cars at cheaper prices like 2-series, 320i, CLA, A3, etc. Very smart move indeed.

SeismicGuy

Interesting predicament and hit the nail on the head. While the Asians have been trying now since the early 1990s to break into the likes of BMW and Merc recognition the Germans have been quietly stealing away Asian buyers. Say what you want about the Germans but the marketing strategy and implementation are miles ahead of Acura (absolutely) and even Lexus and Infiniti.

Our friends who have had 3 or 4 Lexus ES starting with a 1992 model just jumped ship to buy a new Merc C250. Nice outside but inside is clearly tacky and the total package is nowhere near the amount of car like ES350, Acura TL, or even Q50 but the thinking was "hey, for the same price as one of those Asian models we can have a Mercedes" so they now do.

From pictures I would certainly consider the CLA especially if it is in the low to mid-$30K range.

TL Dawg

Great minds think alike!

Mr Marco

See also:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...9&postcount=10

docboy

Agreed. So-called Tier 1 brands "dipping down" is not good news for Acura, Infiniti, etc.

The MDX and RDX are solid SUV performers. No worries there.

Sedan wise, IMHO the TL 6MT is still the best model of the sedan bunch; the exterior design is polarizing to the general public. I find its exterior styling still refreshing and aggressive, though IMHO its design needs to be tweaked (without being boring) for mainstream acceptance.

Otherwise the TSX is aging, the RLX has a boring design and does not scream exciting, and the ILX has an underwhelming powerplant. I'm rooting for the TLX to be a home run, but so far, no sneak peeks from Acura and no sneak info, aside from a few spy pics that doesn't tell much. Curious indeed.

SeismicGuy

Also, they really need to do more than just add an "X" to the end of the existing model name!

jim_c

Reminds me of the lady I met at a party a while ago.
She is a middle class person very concerned about materialistic things.
She desperately wants a Mercedes.
When I asked her what model she likes, she said "a blue one"!
True story.
Sums up MB buyers for me.

weather

Was the BLONDE good looking? *lol*

BEAR-AvHistory

I know its fashionable here & will get a lot of atta-boys when a Merc etc. gets beat up in a post. Thing is they are selling near 27,000 cars a month even though its a pretty pricy brand. Acura sold 11,600 cars that typically top out in the low $40’s, about where except for the new “C” the MB product line traditionally starts.

I can’t accept that all those people who bought a Mercedes are dumb a**es any more than I can accept the premise that all 11,000 odd who bought an Acura product are geniuses. Sometime the beating up on more expensive cars here really gets to sound like sour grapes.

Wonder how posts on a Honda site dinging Acura buyer as brand snobs whould go over. Once you get past a basic comfortable transportation module like Civic & Corolla you are getting into status buys. Above them no matter how its dressed up its just different levels of status. Just look at the heavy image oriented vids that are on the TV every night selling various car brands. The current TL one is a prime example.

Mr Marco

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

i thought the CLA would be tiny and cheap-ish looking, but one neighbor got one, and my friend is looking at grabbing a CLA45.... its actually bigger than you think, it is probably a great buy for the $$


Audi/BMW/MB ride the best. (although i never liked MB steering)

Acura/Lexus/Infinti = most reliable/techy interiors

I just got my first Infiniti.... missing the German Ride, but not the price tag.

SeismicGuy

Yeah after about 10 minutes of panic back in about 1990 when Lexus and then Infiniti came out with their first upscale models (I owned a BMW at the time and stumbled on some BMW internal literature while in the service manager's office telling the reps how to counter against the Asian invasion into upscale territory), the Germans sucked it up and while it may have taken a number of years are now spanking the Asian upstarts on pretty much every front!

JM2010 SH-AWD

I know people who have deserted Acura/Infiniti/Lexus for some of these "downmarket" models, especially MBs. All it takes is one foray along that path for people to come to their senses and stop, as one neighbor said, "paying thousands every time it goes to the shop, which is often." As I write this, I see my next door neighbor still has his BMW loaner in his drive (for multiple weeks now) as his 2013 6 is evidently still receiving some German engineering tweaks at the shop.

SeismicGuy

Very true. I got sucked into that foray back when I bought my 1986 325ES. Reliability was not only dreadful (went through 2 automatic transmissions and it took maybe a half-dozen times to the dealer to get the air conditioning sorted out---this was also true for other folks I knew who had BMW's at the time) but even for so-called "minor" servicing I always dreaded the visit to the dealer or even (later) with independents. There was never any service less than $500 or $600 with this car. Had essentially same bad luck experience with an Audi I owned and I would be hard pressed to buy another "precision" German vehicle.

KeithL

While nothing major I already had a few "fit and finish" issues with my A6 that for a car in its 3rd year just seems odd. At the 3rd year they should be near perfection, especially with things like build quality. I had trim not properly secure, missing vent, mis-aligned backup camera, and a few others things that I have never seen on any Asian car I have owned, including several year 1 cars. I do love the tech and ride in this car, but something tells me I will be back to Japanese next round as Audi can not figure out how to do electric power steering.

C8N

Saw one parked around my work.
It looks better in person than in pictures.

fusiongt

Just wait for the repair bill. German car dealers will rape your pocket quicker than u can blink your eye.

Mr Marco

I can never wait that long. Want the "New and Hotness" as soon as it comes out. If people don't have to walk around the back of the car to see WTF model it is, I don't feel cool enough.

jim_c

Just for the record (and for Kevin, lol) my comment above really is not a criticism of the cars, just the buyers. I am happy to state that I'm sure the MBs and Audis and Beemers are very fine cars. But I still believe that a vast majority of the buyers are buying them because they are overly status oriented. Whereas a high proportion of buyers of the "Japanese" brands are buying because they bought in the past and the reliability of the vehicles is superior. MHO.

BEAR-AvHistory

If you mean more business owners, senior managers, professionals buy these cars you are correct. Either through company cars, company car allowances, higher than average salaries or tax write offs for the professionals they are cars that they can afford. They also tend to have larger houses than average with multi-car garages to park them in.

I would expect most people here buy an Acura over a Honda because they can afford the extra freight.

The "I would not spend that much for X" cuts both ways. I am sure there are tens of millions of Americans who would not spend that much for an Acura.

heisnuts

I think the MB looks better on the outside, but when you factor in the looks of the interior and lack of features compared to the TL, I think the TL comes out the winner. And if you factor in the cost of maintaining the car, the TL comes out even further ahead. Right now if you found a 2013 TL on the lot with the tech package and FWD, you would probably pay less for that that you would a FWD MB and that wouldn't have all of the features the TL Tech would have. That would be a no brainer for me.

jim_c

Actually, fwiw, I was thinking of the fact that I see a heck of a lot of Asian folks driving Beemers and Benz's. Very status conscious community.

KeithL

I agree and I don't wait either. I was not planning on an Audi, I wanted a TLX, but gave up and the M37 is too dated at this point the the RLX, well....

I have year 1 04 TL and 09 AWD TL and both had less minor issues that my A6. I hope this is it for the minor stuff, but as others have said this sis a German car. I went in knowing it would likely have more repairs.

weather

I am going to watch how you are doing with your Audi because as you know, I am very itchy to get an Audi too. I like the fact that you are not a fanboy and can relate the facts as they are.

docboy

Totally agree. My experience directly and indirectly have shown that German vehicles in general have a higher rate of repair and their repair and maintenance costs are also higher; some can be astronomically higher, almost eye shocking... whether German fanboys want to admit it or not.

For example, last week during lunch with a friend of mine: He has a 2010 335xi coupe w/28k miles, and he's thinking about trading it before the warranty expires. He bought it b/c "he liked the way it looked and handles." He's had the following issues so far: Replace all 4 RFT tires out of pocket b/c they could not be repaired, replace HPFP pump more than once, electrical issue that caused his entire dashboard to go out, and his driver's side window motor went out. He's worried about the expenses after the warranty expires; he had a G35 prior to the 335, and is thinking of getting a Japanese vehicle next.

But... reliability alone does not sell; other factors come into play. MB really seems to have a knockout in the CLA wrt style and price. I bought the TL b/c I weighted reliability as a large factor into my equation (among AWD and 6MT); had the TL not have AWD and 6MT, I would not have bought it, and would have likely bought an S4 or admittedly 335xi instead.

Status or not, Acura has a problem in their hands, and I suspect it has to do with their design language, poor marketing strategy, and lack of "excitement" trims. Again, look at the CLA; even this entry level model has an 355HP AMG option, whose engine specs is close to that of the RLX's 370HP top model (which is FAR from exciting). What's wrong with that picture?

IMHO.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

You again, eh? You're on every forum!!

Japanese cant figure it out yet either.... The Q50S has DAS (Direct Adaptive Steering) and its all electric... and odd.... didn't like it at first, but finally "adapted"... no pun intended

I miss my Audi every day....only people who've driven that car can understand how perfectly and smooth it rides.

BEAR-AvHistory

Seems like every one has their favorite German car horror story. Unfortunately I don’t & feel so left out. Not counting tires, no RFT failures, I have about $1500 out of pocket on all 4 since 2004. BMW has not had to pick-up an major expenses on any of the all in 48/50 warranties. The 335is has had 1 recall for a battery cable, the other 3 none. My TL had 3 or 4 recalls & a TSB transmission rebuild. The exact sequence & timing of the TL fails is in my threads on the 3G forum.

On the tires I changed the 335is tires @ 1500 miles because they were not suited to what I wanted the car for. The X3 & 135is still have their original RFT. The 330ci did not come with RFT so that’s a non-issue.

One of my kids has one & she also has not made the horror highlight list. Not saying they have never had problems the early 335 HPFP was dodgy but that issue was pretty much cleared up in 2010. Will a fuel pump never again fail? nope but its not a major issue in the newer cars. A quick look at the recall lists shows Honda in first place with Toyota in second. BMW is number 10 on the list. Of course they sell more cars than BMW so its obvious they would have more cars recalled. The list pretty much says that the more cars you sell the more will be recalled. It also says that no brand is immune to issues regardless of what someone's brother in laws cousin says.

ostrich

docboy, I actually have been looking into the CLA as well, as a potential replacement for my TL which is about to expire in a few months! I am pleased to hear that it does have split folding rear seats.

The only concern I had was that it did not have AWD.... that was until I realized that it will have an AMG version with AWD!!!!!!! And it was affordable too!!!!!!! WOW!

Now, I am even more confused as to what I may want to get next.... LOL

ostrich

ROTFLOL Weather, do you have some allergies or something!? Ha ha ha....

Seriously, if it were not for the horrendous dealership experience that I have had with Audi, I would have got into one a long time ago already.

CanTLOwner

I love how everyone is essentially ignoring you. What do you expect? This is the Acura forum. You would be naive to argue that German reliability is better than that of the Japanese. I agree that no brand is immune, but if you look at probabilities, a BMW or Audi is way more likely to incur a costly repair bill compared to a Lexus or Acura. Read all the reliability charts from JD Power and Consumer Reports and they would all agree with that. German reliability outright sucks. That's not to say you haven't been fortunate.

I have a TL and had that driveshaft issue fixed under warranty so I do agree that Acura is not immune. However, my good buddy had a 2 year old 335xi die on him on the highway - needed a tow from Red Deer to Edmonton which is about 150 km away and had to drive a loaner for a couple of weeks. He has choice words about German reliability but still enjoys his car for what it is.

I agree the CLA is being marketed aggressively and am looking at the AMG 4matic as my wife's possible next car (she has a 2011 BMW 328 xi). Here's the main point, I think German cars still sell on the basis of past reputation and cutting edge design. To be completely honest, a large number of people still buy cars because it looks nice and another segment will buy it because of status symbol. Not very people care about reliability anymore for luxury vehicles because of the ability to lease and dump the car back to the dealer after a few years. My wife still thinks my car is ugly and liked her car because it looked pretty... Lol

Bottom line: Acura better sure as hell step up its game in the design department or their sedan department (ie. TLX) may be rendered obsolete no matter how robust or reliable they are.

KeithL

I have read some decent reviews on the Q50 EPS, and actually the Cadillac CTS steering is getting great reviews.

As for how smooth the Audi is I agree, it is the most amazing silky smooth power train I have ever driven. I think that's why it is disappointing on the steering on how that can engineer such an amazing drive train and screw up the steering so badly.

If Audi can fix the steering and provide more comfortable seats that have damn near the perfect car IMO.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

^ they do have more comfortable seats...... its called the S6

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Having just tested the CLA250 recently, I have to say, it is an attractive car from the outside and the interior is no better or worse than similarly priced cars, but the driving dynamics are terrible. The steering is limp and lifeless, the throttle has about 3-inches of dead space before it begins to provide any kind of resistance, and the engine runs out of breath long before the redline.

If you care at all about the driving experience, the current iteration of the CLA is not going to satisfy even one bit. That swoopy, sporty look is completely let down by a driving experience that is typical Mercedes - wooden, aloof, and isolated. I have asked the dealer to give me a call when they get a CLA45 in that I can test because my experience with MBs has always been that the AMG cars are tuned completely differently. Hoping that the CLA45 continues that tradition.

BEAR-AvHistory

JD Powers Actually has quite a few BMW award winners on its web site now. Consumer Reports also have a few as recommended buys & IIRC had dropped the Honda Civic. So times are changing & things are looking up.

BTW on JD powers if the responded does not like your cup holders or push buttons you get dinged

Mr Marco

What is up with the vehicles in your past (sig)? Specifically, "2010 Acura TL SH-AWD | 2009 Acura TL SH-AWD."

Why two of the same just a year apart?