Glashub

Although the article is about Infiniti and Lexus mostly -- I was so very encouraged to see that Acura (my favorite brand) sells pretty good considering.

Americans Like Infiniti More Than Ever — But They Still Want To Buy A Lexus

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/infin...#ixzz2hR4sHWi5

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

Interesting, I had no idea Lexus had so much buzz. I'm also surprised Audi's annual sales weren't mentioned. IMO Mercedes & Audi exterior designs are the hottest ATM.

Glashub

I mean when you look at it -- Acura is only 70K car sales below Lexus. If they improve the ILX, hit a home run with TLX, and do something (I don't know what) with the RLX -- they're not that far off and these numbers are for the 4G!

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

If we looks closer at the MSRP's for the Acura and the Lexus lineup, we'll notice that the average Lexus vehicle costs a lot more and carries a much higher entry cost than the average Acura vehicle.

Cheaper vehicles sell in volume, but premium vehicles don't.

That's why Acura can sell significant volume in comparison.

On the extreme side, Toyota and Honda sell vehicles with even lower MSRP's. So they can achieve hundreds of thousands in unit volume per year.

Cygnus_X1

It all goes back to Nissan which is at the bottom of the Japanese car food chain. People love their Honda's and Toyota's but people don't love their Nissan's. I've owned all three and the same goes for me.
I own an Acura and I love it, I would love to own a Lexus, but I would never buy an Infiniti.

Mr Marco

fify

Glashub

I own a 2014 Lexus IS350 Fsport. It is the best ride/handling car I've ever owned. BUT you can't get leather, memory seats, ventilated seats or tilt down mirrors. It costs about 48.5K. That's why I'm an Acura lover. You get performance near the best and you get a good assortment of goodies to boot. If the TLX is all I hope it will be I'll be buying one. The Fsport is one hell of a car -- don't get me wrong -- but it isn't too good of a value.

hadokenuh

What's interesting is if Acura sold more 4G TL units like they did with the 3G, they could have beat Lexus!

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

Regarding Nissan being on the bottom of the food chain, I remember an AZ member on cartalk who's stationed in Japan stating that its Toyota > Nissan > Honda. Although it might just be the typical cartalk mad @ Honda typical banter. With the exception of the GTR & Z I believe that to be true, although why anyone would love something as boring as a Toyota is beyond me.

[QUOTE=Mr Marco;It all goes back to Mazda which is at the bottom of the Japanese car food chain.[/QUOTE]

Who buys Mazdas?

Cygnus_X1

LOL, I totally forgot about Mazda. I'm amazed they're still around. I have to say though, I loved my boring 07' Toyota Avalon that I traded in for my 13' TL. It wasn't anything special about the car as much as I always knew the thing would start when I turned that key and nothing ever broke after 6 years and 109k miles. After many years of trying different brands I won't buy anything but Honda or Toyota anymore.

ucf_bronco

iTrader: (1)

What a joke....especially considering my wife's 2005 ES330 had all of the above.

Glashub

What you do get is a car that most auto pundits (Car and Driver, Smoking Tire, etc) claim beats the 3 series, 4 suspension settings and so much more meant to make the Fsport a car that is fun and thrilling to drive -- which means a lot of LFA trickle down stuff. The car is by no means a joke. It is flying off the shelves. It was named car of the year by Esquire. Lexus nailed it -- all for under 50K. With negotiation I got the car for about the same as a TL Advance.

ucf_bronco

iTrader: (1)

Don't get me wrong, I love the new IS and am sure it performs well. I just feel it's a joke to pay that much and not get options that I feel should be standard on a Lexus.

Tonyware

The Lexus IS350 Fsport is one hell of a car! A friend owns one too and I was impressed by the handling etc. One thing tho... what the hell were they thinking when they designed the front grill? Of course beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, but in this case they think the beholders are all blind?

Glashub

Yes, this has caused a lot of friction -- the lack of these features. The Lexus forum is constantly besieged by people particularly 2IS owners derailing threads with this criticism. It's valid. In doing research I've found the average margin for car manufacturers has plummeted from 18% at the beginning of the century to about 8% now. No business can really thrive on an 8% margin imo. I think Lexus would've included those items and that they will be there after the refresh but with R&D costs, etc. I don't think the margins were there AND nobody is going to buy a $55K-$60 IS imo. It's branded as a 45K car. So to get there we have what we have.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

^^

We own 4G's so I'd tread lightly. I'm not a fan of the new IS but then again not many are of the 4G although with mods it looks like one of the baddest rides on the road. I don't think there's much room to fix the new IS grille or taillights.

Glashub

I owned a 4G. I don't see where I treaded heavily. Can you point that out to me? I said 2x I'm a big Acura fan. Owned 3 in a row. What I'm pointing out in the post you're pointing to is that manufacturers don't have much of a margin anymore -- possibly explaining the lack of features.

boe_d

Oh, is that all they need to do I sincerely hope they do something fantastic with the TLX as I still love my current Acura TL but am ready to upgrade.

REALLY? You are casting stones about the front grill of another vehicle in an Acura TL forum!?! Really?! I agree, that the new lexus front grill isn't great but compared to the TL beak it certainly isn't any worse- and you can say the beak is gone but it still is a beak. Or you can say it still has a silly smile or whatever you like, other than 4G owners the general public has spoken.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

You misunderstood, my comment was directed to tony but you replied before I did.

Oh where would we all be without boe's redundant insight?

Colin

As far as I know, Infiniti has never outsold Acura in North America. Same for Audi (though in recent years its getting close). Also, Volvo, Lincoln, Saab (of course) are generally lower is sales volume. Luxury brands selling more than Acura include MB, BMW, Lexus. Buick and Caddy sell more but use fleet sales to do it, whereas (off the top of my head), nobody else mentioned does.

Glashub

No worries. I've been on this forum a long time and am familiar with your posts -- your a good guy -- and didn't take it personally. I just didn't get what you'd read -- now I know.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

a

KeithL

I owned numerous Acuras, a few Infiniti's and now an Audi. I love the religious like opinions people form. I loved the styling of my M37S, loved the interior, but felt Infiniti's tech was dated and not up to par. I find my Audi to be an awesome machine, but the interior is chthonic compared to my Infiniti and to some extent my 09 TL AWD. Every brand and model has pros and cons. I find the Audi forums loaded with people biased against Japanese cars. The biggest complaint I had on my M37s was I felt the 3.7 to be a be dated and a bit rough, but the car was a pleasure of own.

Nissan is getting their act together, but sine they tended to be less tight and not as reliable as Tpyota and Honda I think that's where that starts, but my Infiniti was very solid any reliable.

a35tl

Maybe my personal sense of loyalty is a flaw but I'm fiercely loyal to the Honda/Acura brand. I bought my first Honda vehicle (a Prelude) when I was 17 and have never owned another make since then. That was over 20 years ago. My '12 TL Advance is the 15th car I've owned.

I haven't liked every styling or design choice Honda and Acura have made over the years but every one I've owned, I've ended up loving. I've had excellent service from all of my Honda/Acura vehicles and fully anticipate that to continue in the future.

I acknowledge that Lexus and Infiniti make great cars. But to even consider another make of automobile makes me feel unfaithful to "my first love", which is Honda. As I mentioned earlier, maybe I'm loyal to a fault but I love Honda/Acura products and will only consider them for future purchases. I don't apologize for being a loyalist. It's just who I am.

I have dream cars that I find very appealing: Audi S6, Audi RS7, Audi S8, Audi R8 V10, BMW M3, BMW M5, Mercedes-Benz CLS 63AMG, Porsche Boxster S, Chevrolet Corvette ZR1, Ferrari 458 Spider among others I could list. But for my daily driver and a car I know that will be there for me day in and day out, my heart is still with Acura. Not opposed to owning any of them as long as I can continue to own my Acuras. Just my 2 cents worth.

sluzynsk

My wife & I just finished shopping for her. She ruled out a TL at the start because she wanted something different than I have. The IS250's interior was awful, starting with the center console that hits you in the side right under your armpit. And the engine in the 250 was anemic as well.

She ended up in a G37. I got her to try a TSX but compared to the TL it felt cheap and uncomfortable.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

Did you also check out the Q50 ? Or you like the G37 more ?

sluzynsk

Well she wanted the coupe, so the Q60 would have been the one to look at. The dealer had one last 2012 G37x AWD Premium (brand new) still left on the lot so they took a rather outrageously low offer in order to get it sold.

We did drive the Q50 and the electronics package in it is very cool. Nice drive as well. If my wife had wanted a sedan we would have gone ahead and gotten into the Q50; as it was she fell in love with the coupe and for the price I got it for there was no walking away from it.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

If you got to low ball them to death and walk out with a brand new G, I think you made the right choice!

nj2pa2nc

have owned Mitsubishi, Volvo, Mercedes, Nissan, ford, chevy, mazda, vw, Honda, Hyundai, and acura- I am definitely not loyal to any particular brand. The closest lexus and infiniti dealers are over 100 miles away so do not even consider those brands.

BEAR-AvHistory

Think I would go into terminal boredom with only one brand of car. IIRC this is a pretty good list with Chevy being the most highly represented over the years. Datsun, Volvo & Morgan were the only brands I only had one of all the rest were at least two.

Ford
Chevy
Pontiac
Morgan
Triumph
Volvo
Cadillac
Jaguar
Mercedes
Fiat
BMW
Homemade
Datsun
Nissan
Acura
Honda

dwest1023

I do, thank you. Nothing like a Miata

boe_d

I'm considering a Toyota /Lexus. I want reliability - that is why I love my Honda and Acura. If I need exciting, I'd buy a real sports car or date another psychotic woman, I wouldn't buy a 4 door sedan. The 300h is reasonably luxurious, and gets great gas mileage. My Acura is not attractive and it doesn't matter if I'm driving a ford escort or a Porsche, I'm driving faster than about 95% of the other drivers but traffic as it is in LA - I might as well be on a moped as traffic only goes so fast when you are boxed in by too many slow drivers. Most places that you can actually drive fast are speed traps because people need to cut loose after escaping traffic. I'm still considering the TLX as I hope they'll make a peppy hybrid.

Glashub

lol Now that's a bit of an exaggeration imo. Hits you under the armpit?

You were saved from the Q50 by your low armpits. Oh, wait a minute -- I got confused -- you were saved from the IS350 by your armpits.

"All Q50 hybrids have standard Direct Adaptive Steering, or, in layman’s terms, steer-by-wire. That means when you turn the wheel you are simply stating your desire to the HAL 9000 that administers the electrified steering rack. In case of a system failure, a mechanical system provides backup steering control. You can express your mood via a console drive-mode selector, which tells the computer if you’re feeling sporty, greeny, snowbound, or just “normal.” Still, the steering produces about as much cause-and-effect satisfaction as introducing a bill into the U.S. House of Representatives. Something akin to your intention may come out the other end, but expect unwanted amendments. "

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...id-test-review

Rocketsfan

The only reason I still don't have a new car is everything I want has decided to be "not quite what I'm looking for". I thought for sure with a new ATS, Q50, and IS coming out, I'd be in a new car long before the next TL(X) came out. The ATS is a crapshoot in reliability and mileage... so I thought I'd get the Q50... that thing has electronic gremlins coming out of its tailpipe... this leaves the IS, but I need a bit better mileage than it offers and I just haven't warmed up to the interior, to be honest. I still may get it if push came to shove.

Then you have Acura and its TLX which they seem to have forgotten about. lol. Like others, my anticipation for it has somewhat waned, but if it comes out by the time I get my next car, I'll definitely keep it in mind. I just get the weird feeling it'll be an RLX, jr.

I'm not tied to any one brand, but I need some track record of reliability. I need this sucker to hopefully run a relatively trouble-free 150,000 miles or so. I know, I know... I R NOT ENTHOOZIUS! lol.

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

If it's between Acura and Infiniti, I'll stick with Acura. I'll stick with Acura over Lexus too.

Rocketsfan

I have to ask... is "chthonic" a typo/auto-correct or did you really mean that? I'm trying to figure out what a chthonic interior must look like.

Rocketsfan

I can understand the Acura over Infiniti, but I'm curious as to why Acura over Lexus? Value?

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

Dwest I meant models other than the rx7/miata, I see those as niche models and find the rest of the range

KeithL

Damn I must have been half asleep, it was supposed to be "cheapy", the Audi Interior feels rather cheap compared to both my M37S and older 09 TL AWD