crazyjkz

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/deep...14-118443.html

http://wot.motortrend.com/we-hear-ho...14-182755.html

If what these articles say is true, then the new Honda 6AT might just be a stop-gap until the new ZF 9-speed automatic gets here. Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge has a deal with ZF for their new 8AT for RWD applications and the upcoming 9AT for transverse FWD applications, and ZF is going to be building these highly-advanced 8ATs and 9ATs in the U.S., the production of the 9AT will start in early-2013 in Greenville, South Carolina.

ZF claims a 16% increase in overall fuel economy over current 6ATs, and that along with a tremendously wide gear spread to boost acceleration/performance would certainly push Honda/Acura to the top of the industry in the automatic transmission category, and this would be huge for them considering that they have been seriously lagging in A/T performance over the last decade or so compared to all other brands.

I remember hearing a lot in many different message boards and forums that Honda should just start buying ZF automatics due to Honda's sub-par reputation in building a solid and competitive automatic (and ZF's reputation for building some of the best automatics in the world), so if this article is true then many Honda/Acura fans around the world may finally get their wish. This could finally be the big break that Honda/Acura has desperately needed for so long to finally give their models a highly advanced, efficient, and extremely competitive automatic transmission. I really REALLY hope that this story is true!

For more detailed information on the ZF 9-speed automatic go here: http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/ZF9.html

weather

9 gears?!?! Wholly molly....I work about 20 miles from where I live....I'll likely get to the 9th gear by the time I get to work I hope!

I Am not sure about you guys but I am not a big fan of these high number of gears, it seems that the car is tuned for fuel efficiency and not performance. I wonder how it will feel when you 'll need to do a sudden passing maneuver...will it downshift properly or will it feel like a major lag?

types1fan

8 or 9 gears sounds insane.

crazyjkz

I have a 7-speed automatic in my 2011 Infiniti G37x Sedan, and I really do enjoy having 7 different gear ratios to choose from, I always feel like I'm in the right gear even when it's just in regular Drive mode, and when I push the car hard it's always in the heart of the powerband from one gearchange to the next. 6th and 7th are double overdrives for improved highway fuel economy and 1-5 are closely spaced for excellent off-the line and midrange acceleration.

I could only imagine how great a 9-speed automatic would be, but let's face it, even if the difference in acceleration is barely noticeable between Honda's current 6AT and this new ZF 9AT, the 16% increase in fuel economy alone would be more than worth it. Just imagine how frugal the Civic would be with this 9AT. It would really elevate Honda/Acura to the next level of powertrain performance and efficiency.

And given the fact that most of Honda's VTEC engines are geared more for higher-rpm performance, an automatic that has a very wide range of gear ratio selection would really help keep a VTEC motor at the closest possible rpm to redline during full-throttle runs so that you stay within VTEC engagement for as long as possible between gearchanges. The lower ratios can be geared very aggressively without sacrificing fuel economy or top-end performance.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Interesting. I'd been skeptical of the real value of these 7, 8 and 9 speed autos, and mainly viewed them as a marketing tool. This summer, however, I rented a Chrysler 300 for a week. (As an aside, I'm no fan of Chrysler products, but the new 300 was fairly impressive. Don't know about long-term reliability, but it was a quiet, comfortable, car for eating up highway miles).

But back on topic. The 300 had the ZF eight speed auto. Not only was it pretty adept at helping the large, heavy 300 move right along, but amazingly, at highway speeds (72-77 mph) we averaged 32 mpg on one leg and 31.6 on the other. For a big, heavy car that was pushed pretty hard, I'm astounded at the mileage. I believe a lot of it was attributable to the 8 speed, which, btw, was completely unobtrusive. I didn't even know the car had the 8 speed auto until after the trip.

Very impressive.

Rocket_man

Isn't the CVT supposed to better the 7/8/9 speed transmissions? The CVT will be stock in the new 2013 Accord. Maybe the ZF will be for the Acura TLX while the Accord gets the CVT??

Edward'TLS

Don't get too carried away too fast. Wait til we see it available in Acura dealerships, then we can start celebrate.

Honda has already burnt us far too many times with announced programs that wouldn't materialize, such as V8, RWD, 2010 V10 replacement NSX, diesel TSX, etc, etc.

promethus78

gear 9, the ultra ultra overdrive gear

tenstrum

How reliable are those transmissions?

012TL-GLM

Is this considered a dual clutch tranny? Sounds hot. I actually had what I consider great mpg on my 450 mile trip this weekend-28mpg on the SH-AWD cruise at 80 most of the time. If I could convince my foot to stop speeding I bet I could have gotten over 30 at 65

JM2010 SH-AWD

^^ My experience is similar. The only long trip I've taken, the car returned over 28 mpg cruising at about 77. I'm pretty sure that under good weather/terrain conditions it would have hit 30 if I had kept the speed lower. Obviously I didn't buy the car for fuel mileage, but I'm pleasantly surprised it does this well.

Pete2010

9 Gears? All the damn car is going to be doing is shifting all the time.

No thanks, I'll row my own gears.

LawnPro

^^^^ This.....
Even 7,8, & 9 gears does sound like overkill to me. I have heard good things since acura went to a 6 AT from the 5 AT.
Is there really much benefit to more gears for the tranny to be shifting through?

JM2010 SH-AWD

I'm with you guys on the MT, but I have to say that on the 300 I rented, the 8 speed AT was completely unobtrusive. I didn't even know it had an 8 speed until after I turned the car back. If the rumored Acura 9 speed works like the Chrysler ZF, it'll be a good addition (for those who like the slush boxes).

crazyjkz

Check out this link for detailed information on the ZF 9-Speed Automatic: http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/ZF9.html

According to Allpar, the ZF FWD 9AT does appear similar in design to their new RWD 8AT, the obvious difference being that it's designed specifically for transverse fwd platforms (which makes it ideal for all Honda/Acura vehicles) and that it's lighter and more compact since it won't be handling the huge torque of a large-displacement V8 that the 8AT is being used for in some applications.

But that doesn't mean that the 9AT isn't a durable and robust design. It is being designed to handle a maximum of 354 lb-ft of torque, which is well above the torquiest version of the J37 which is at 275 lb-ft of torque, so as of right now it would be more than able to handle the most powerful and torquiest Honda engines. It is also being designed to handle AWD, stop-start, and hybrid platforms, making it a very flexible and modular transmission.

And given ZF's long-standing reputation for building some of the best automatic transmissions in the world, I think it's safe to assume that these new transmissions will be quite durable and reliable. BMW has had the majority of their automatics supplied by ZF from the 1960's to the present day, they developed the first 5-speed automatic for passenger cars in 1991, and they developed the first 6-speed automatic in 2000. They have been a true leader in automatic transmission research, development, design, and production for the last 50 years plus. You can see more of ZF's history and milestones here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_Friedrichshafen

Overall this transmission appears to be an ideal match for Honda and Acura applications, almost as if it was designed with them in mind from the get-go. It's designed for fwd transverse platforms, AWD and hybrid capable, an extremely wide gear spread of of 9.84 (which is ideal for high-revving VTEC motors), and durable enough to handle the strongest Honda engines available. If this ends up being a reality and not just a rumor, it would clearly be a huge breakthrough for Honda/Acura, and would finally push them to the top of the industry in automatic transmission offerings. The key thing to remember here is a 16% improvement in overall fuel economy when compared to the common 6AT! And these are the kinds of powertrain advancements that Honda-Acura need right now to keep them competitive in the present and the future!

Ant$

just wondering if Porsche's 7-speed manual transmission will someday help replace the 6-speed for other manual trannies or if auto manufacturers will even bother adding another gear...

LawnPro

Did you say.......7 SPEED manual transmission?????
Never knew it existed...

crazyjkz

Given the fact that their have been very few significant breakthroughs or advancements in manual transmissions in the last decade or so, it seems as if the majority of auto manufacturers are now putting their primary focus on high-tech and advanced automatic transmissions with 6 to 9 gears, and also dual-clutch automatics are continuing to be improved and advanced as well. Even CVTs have fallen to the wayside in a majority of car companies, with the exception of Nissan and Subaru.

The reason for this is not only are today's modern 7-9 speed automatics more fuel efficient than your average 6-speed manual, but they also are equaling if not exceeding them in performance. For example, my 7AT G37 is slightly faster than the 6-speed manual G37 in the 0-60 and 1/4 mile.

Todays modern 7, 8, and soon-to-be 9 speed automatics can shift between gears in just 0.3-0.5 seconds and less. Shift times are as low as 350 milliseconds in Lexus' 8AT, and dual-clutch automatics (DCTs) have the ability to shift even faster due to their design (gearshifting is completed without the interruption of torque being sent to the wheels); the DCT in the Nissan GT-R has shift times of only 200 milliseconds! These shift times are clearly faster than any driver could ever shift a manual transmission.

So now we have very advanced automatics and DCTs with a multitude of gear ratios to choose from that have finally bridged the long-standing gap between automatic and manual transmissions in both efficiency and performance, and now drivers can get the performance and efficiency of manual but without having to row gears and depress clutch pedals. This is why more and more every year automatic-equipped vehicles are outselling the manual-versions.

The only drawback being that even in the greatest and most advanced automatic transmission you would still be lacking that thrilling and visceral driving-experience that only a true manual transmission can bring. But for more and more drivers each year this is becoming less of an issue because automatics are outselling manuals more and more each year. Manual .vs. automatics will always be a subjective argument regardless of how advanced and improved automatic transmissions continue to become.

012TL-GLM

autos kick ass, no worries about the shifter while receiving RH from your GF

Edward'TLS

Just don't underestimate the upcoming EarthDream DI 3.5L-V6 with motor assist, as planned to be used on the 3G RL sedan.

The ED DI 3.5L-V6 will have much higher engine output than the current J-series 3.5L-V6, and the motor drive will add a lot more torque to the overall hybrid powertrain package. So the total torque output can creep awfully close to that 354 lb-ft of max torque limit for the compact 9AT.

Glashub

Oh man, I have an 8 speed on a 2012 Genesis. Smooth a silk but is not at all sporting even after updates to software. Some complain of a lag when power is needed because the tranny "hunts" for a second or two.

And they're coming out with a 10 speed.

exonomix

Got me feeling like a truck driver! 9 gears, I can see being useful as an automatic, but lord forbid they ever make a manual w 9 gears. A triple-gear-downshift would be needed to maintain a quick performance maneuver like overtaking or sporting into a turn for compression braking/throttle position. Crazy, but I can see it being useful.

Don't the majority of us reading and writing in here use our ears to shift anyway? I suppose this may cause a problem with so much gear overlap, it may be confusing to us who drive by feel and sound.

Ant$

damn...this is like the moment digital cameras eventual surpassed film cameras in picture quality...and e-books surpassed physical books in popularity





...but I still read books, drive a manual, shoot a film camera, listen to vinyl...LOL