acura_TL2010

Hey folks, i know every body on this forum are diehard fans of TL. And i also noticed that many Acura enthusiast are also BMW fans. I was just wondering-as to given a choice, i mean if BMW 535I would have been same price as TL SHAWD, which one you would have preferred.

weather

Hey ...

Let me tell you that is would not be an easy decision...both bring different positive aspects and negative aspects as well. At the end of the day, you have to weigh the + or - of each. For me, I am aware that BMW has more brand appeal, but comes with it the stigma of snobbiness (which I don;t agree but that is the perception.

The things I love about my TL....I love the interior. The seats are so comfortable for me and despite all the complaints about the nobs and buttons, that is what I love about my TL the most. At night, that thing is so beauitful inside and it inspires driving. I also love the ELS system, and its reliability. I don't have a Acura nor a BMW dealership where I live so reliability is a HUGE thing for me and hence the piece of mind of my TL. Finally, my dealer experience was also a tipping factor....doing business there is simly unbeleivable so eventhough I don't go often, when I do go, I am treated like a somebody.

Now the things I am not as much in love with my TL....I still don't like the rear of the car as much as its front. I hate that it doesn't have rear folding seats (but not a deal breaker obviously) and thats about it for me. Sure, it could have a few other goodies as adaptive HID headlights, front camera and other features that other brand has but at least, its well built and what it does have does seem to work well.

Again, for me, the most important thing is I am not a huge fan of the BMW (even Audi) interior, I love the tech feeling of the TL rather than the bland BMW interior....but again, that is just my opinion....and lets be real, eventhough you are assuming the same price, we both know it would never be which obviously makes a big difference to most people. I could have afforded the BMW but I hate paying more and get less and not be as thrilled about the car....now the exterior of the BMW is nice but I spend my time inside and visually, its the interior that makes the most difference for me.

Hope it helps,,,,and I am getting ready to be flamed

BTW...I had to mount my front plates today...its always sad to poke holes in such a nice car but my consolation is that this bracket is well integrated and doesn't look too bad. Why car companies don't do devices that prevent from mounting through the bumper is besides me...

speedmaster

I answered that I'd take the BMW, but (and please don't take offense) this poll doesn't really make much sense. But yeah, if someone else were going to pay for the car, and the maintenance, and basically cover the delta betweent the two, then I'd like to experience ownership of a 535.

I've had eight Acuras and two Infinitis over the course of the last 18 years. I just love Acuras and ELS audio, SH-AWD, and now the 6 speed transmission have made it harder than ever for any other car company to capture my business.

The "status" of BMW and Mercedes have never mattered to me, and I live in Beverly Hills where both are so common that they cease to be noticeable.

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

I'd reconsider BMW if they promise to fix everything (forever) that you always take BMW's in for, because they nickel and dime you to death.

Franco2112

TL, no question. Just took a family vacation in the surburban and my wife could not wait to get into the TL again. It's so sweet! The 5 series is ok, but is and never will be a TL. Chow!
Franco

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

LMFAO, but yeah kinda depends on how long you want to keep the car, as far as what one to chose






also OP, would the 535i, be WITH X-Drive???, just asking cause snow practicality is needed at times (and since the TL is awd)

saturno_v

I cross-shopped the 535i and I think it was not worth the price difference with the TL...however, even if a 535i xDrive similarly equipped and with manual transmission (which is not offered, is available only with the RWD trim) would cost the same as the TL SH-AWD Tech I would still get the TL for the following reasons.

1) I like the TL exterior more, is much more original and with a more aggressive style....plus, frankly, the exclusivity factor (I do not care much about it but it is an added free bonus)...3 and 5 series are everywhere....

2) The TL interior style is, IMHO, miles ahead of both BMW and Audi....it is a shame because up the the E39 5 Series, they were the best looking cabin in the business...they really went downhill after that.

3) The torque vectoring SH-AWD...enough said.

4) The TL seats are simply fantastic...they feel and look better, sportier even of the additional seat package for the 5 Series (IMHO)

5) Rock solid reliability and resale value....I do not replace my cars every 3 years, I own them outright.

That said, I like better the BMW engine...straight 6 and turbocharger is a very sweet combination.

The 535i would have to cost quite a bit less to steer me away from the TL.

Hamma Tyme

This is without a doubt the most hysterical Poll Thread I had ever seen. Why not compare the Caddy CTS rather then the 5 Series. Let it go!

pickler

i would say the beamer just cause i do not like the exterior design of the TL and its rough ride.

winstrolvtec

Same here, I directly crossed shopped my 2010 TL 6MT with the 2010 535xi 6MT. The reason for that was they were the only two mid size luxury sedans with AWD and 6MT. Unfortunately, the 5 series no longer offers the 6MT with x drive. Around that time, the 5 series was on it's final model year clearance for that generation to make room for the new gen and they were going for something like $14k off sticker, since BMW had a $10k incentive on them, if I am not mistaken, which ultimately had the 5 ending up costing only some $6k-$7k more than I got my TL for. So it's safe to say I am familiar with this concept.

Even if they brought back the 6MT for the x drive and they were available for the same price with the same type of equipment, I would still pick the TL. For one thing, the resale, which automatically means the TL is ultimately cheaper even if they have the same exact sales prices. Also related to expenses would be long term maintenance costs, which I still believe the TL would be cheaper to maintain in the long run even after BMW's free maintenance.

Another would be the reliability factor, which needs no explanation. Also, torque vectoring, which is something that has ruined traditional AWD for me. Since I am talking about a 6MT, the TL is still a more capable performer overall which is what I really admire about the car, it's overall performance factor (mostly handling) in relation to it's size. The TL has that smaller, sporty, compact type of capabilities in a bigger body (with a unique sporty/luxury driving feel and blend) that the 5 series used to have, but now has taken on a different role and demeanor. It's more of a smaller 7 series than a larger 3 series, if you know what I mean. While I like the new much more refined, yet less sporty direction, it's not for me right now, maybe in a few more years.

Honestly, it's tough and as tempting as it would be, I am just not sure that I would trade those elements of the TL for the 5's level of luxury, refinement, and whatever features it might have over the TL, if equipped similarly. It might be different for me because I don't buy into the whole badge appeal thing as much as most people do, barely at all in fact.

I do think there is an element of prestige in some 5 series vehicles over a TL because it's simply a more expensive car and so there is a perception surrounding it, not because of the car's or BMW's position on luxury, but because as nice as I do think it is, it still suffers in other areas at the same time, some of which is very basic automotive criteria. And this perception is only a small amount IMO and it only starts at a very well equipped 535 and up, not a base 528, which says very little IMO. That speaks worse to me than a similarly priced but higher trimmed, fully equipped TL, CTS, or Genesis, etc does.

In some cases well equipped 535's priced at $61k are going for around $55k and that's not really a substantial amount of more money or additional prestige than a TL IMO. You have to also figure that most people lease this car and many more finance their TL's, and BMW makes leasing relatively affordable in relation to the sticker prices and they offer multiple security deposit leasing programs and just in general, when you lease, a few thousand more upfront can really help reduce a monthly payment to a more affordable level. So I don't see these cars as drastically apart. Now if we start talking loaded 550's and M5's, I am on board with the perception and badge appeal idea.

I also don't put much of the styling, in or out, into the equation because I don't really have a favorite in this way when it comes to these two cars. They are both very attractive vehicles to me, in both interior and exterior. It's a matter of different, not really better or worse and that goes for many of the other aspects I haven't brought up and it's because of that very reason.

What would make this an even draw for me and maybe something that I couldn't decide on, (considering they are comparable trims and similarly equipped, both with 6MT and AWD) would be if the BMW resale was statistically up to par. That or torque vectoring, either one. If they did both, I would be willing to pay a small premium over the TL for it and if they offered the same type of historic and statistcally backed reliability in addition, I probably wouldn't even mind giving them as much as $10k more over a comparable TL. I think that would be worth it and actually justified. But in the end it's just my opinion and I know there is a vast majority, mainly outside of here, who either don't agree or see it a bit differently than I do.

Stew4HD

OP, no offense meant by why yet another BMW thread...? I could have sworn I was on an Acura TL forum...

If I had wanted a ugly 535I, I'd have bought one... Now if it was an M3.....

NwTSXmt

TL I have never been a fan of BMW (broken motor works)...

Shellyduchsk8s

This was my reasoning for purchasing a TL - I was considering an 08/09 5 Series along w/ the TL... but everyone I talked to who had owned or currently owned a BMW complained about all the random crap that they were fixing. The car was always in "need" of something. I knew the TL would be a solid car, since it's a Honda, and I've owned a few.

I'm very happy w/ my choice, and to be honest, in a few years when I go to replace this car, I'll probably check out the 5 Series again, but I'm 99% sure I'll be purchasing another SH-AWD TL

eazy

iTrader: (8)

TL has a rough ride?

Stew4HD

No kidding! What rough ride? Do people expect Lincoln Continental ride out of a sports sedan? I don't get the ride complaints I keep seeing.

Shellyduchsk8s

I drive my mother around in my car - she keeps saying how GREAT the car feels. She's older and complains about everything - she complains about the ride of BOTH my Dad's Jaguars, and one is a comfy sedan (the other is a supercharged convertible - it's still a smooth ride!).

I mean, this car is AWD V6 - I'm not driving a Buick or an Accord. Yeah, it's a different ride, but rough? Off base

HighRevving

Good luck getting a loaner from a BMW dealer other than who you bought the car from. Oh and make sure you call ahead and hope for an appointment in your life time. And don't expect any pampering unless you are servicing a vehicle whose current market value is $50k+.

I called Acura for a service appt and was told to simply walk-in anytime. I drove in and mins later I was in a 2012 TL with 2xx miles.

My point is, gone are the days when the products we bought represented the only variables in our purchasing decisions.

potmilkz

come on guys..

its a 5 series vs a acura tl..

this is not even a choice... most of the people here that actually picked the tl is because they have one and like it.

sit in the new bmw 5 series and see if it changes your mind. the car is simply amazing.

Stew4HD

I have sat in several 5's.. I prefer the T and yes it is a choice..

follow the crowd or blaze your own path

PsychDoc

Oh, c'mon guys. You know I love ya (and the TL) but you can't really be serious about this. Say what you want about relaibility, run flat tires and other assorted (justified) knocks against the 5 series but if you've ever sat in one there's not even any discussion. Drive in one, there's less.

Really now, c'mon.

There's partisanship and then there's just tooth fairy land.
;-)

Stew4HD

Wow.. what are you guys doing here? Get out there and get aht oh-so-perfect 5'er... I mean, really now. This is getting absurd. We need more polls with TL or Jag.. TL or CTS.. TL or A4... why?

So the 5'er has a plusher interior?... okay, I will give it that... but other than that.. I sure do not see how it's such a superior car to the TL. I find the look rather plain and not my taste at all. OMG, yes, I said it.. the 5'er is ugly to me... I see so many every day that they are plain looking.

You guys can have it. I will stick to the reliable car, one that I don't have to worry about or trying to make my neighbor jealous. My TL makes them crazy enough with envy.

I don't get why some of you guys want to make it seem like we are wrong for liking our choice in cars? WTH is up with that? No matter what you buy, there is always something better out there.

pickler

woa, didn't mean to start a fight. just saying the sh-AWD version of the TL has a firm ride. i believe it has actually the roughest ride in its category bmw 5-series, audi a6, lexus es, Buick LaCrosse, Cadillac cts 3.6. The only car in the category which has an inferior ride quality i think is the infiniti m37s.

I know for a fact that its not a good idea to start a poll like this in forums dedicated to certain brand. I think the reason is obvious. but i remain steadfast that the TL sh-AWD is not a better vehicle than the 535xi. The only thing about the 535 is that its more expensive and less reliable. but are we even supposed to compare the TL to the 535? that's up to you to decide since Acura gave the TL an unorthodox design. if it had stayed the same size as the prev gen TLs i am sure it would have been compared with the 3-series. Then, a lighter sh-AWD equipped 3.7L TL would have been on par with BMW. for now its competing, or made to compete with a vehicle out of its league.

back in 2000-2003 Acura's TL was an excellent cheaper alternative to the ugly 3-series or the horror handling lexus es. that's no longer the case. TL's acceleration was superior to the lexus es and bmw 325 and on par with the 330 (type-s).

sources
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffwor...acura-tl-1.htm
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffwor...3-series-1.htm

JM2010 SH-AWD

I'd choose the better performing car -- the TL AWD (6MT).

I do like the exterior looks of the new 535, but prefer the TL's interior and electronics.

And its performance.

saturno_v

I sat in one, drove one more than once and I still prefer the TL....I respect anybody choice, TL, G, M, 5er, A4, A6, Mercedes whatever but what I find frankly silly is the expression "oh there is not really a comparison"..."the 5 is soo amazing", "just drive one" and so on....like the TL is an el cheapo tincan....these sound like typical histerical statements of people that care more about a badge than capable of rational analysis.

The BMW interiors are somewhat plushier and I'm glad they are for the ones that shell out the price difference......but the design is still boring....for me

Whoever own a TL and says "The 5er is on another planet" does not really understand how to buy a car....if you really think the 5er is so superior you should have bought one....there are so many options.....lease one, getting a 528i, wait couple of years to squirrel away some extra dough, getting one 2 years old and so on.....they are not that far apart in price where if you buy the Acura but the Bimmer is your "dream car" you cannot afford it........if you can get your butt on a TL you can get it on a 5er also.

saturno_v

Acura does

================================================== ================================================== ======

"the 2011 TL competes with vehicles such as the Audi A4 and A6, BMW 3-Series and 5-Series, Infiniti G35 and M35, Lexus ES, GS and IS sedans, and the Mercedes-Benz C-Class and E-Class."

================================================== ================================================== ============

http://www.acuranews.com/channels/ac...ra-tl-overview

Same size, similar powertrain, both AWD....the fact you do not like it does not mean they are not comparable

Actually at that time I thought the TL did not bring much to the table.....you could get the same performance (if not better) and the same overall level of refinement, electronics and reliability from a cheaper Nissan Maxima SE 6 speed (full leather, GPS, incredibler stereo for that time) both 5th and 6th generation or Altima SE-R......the TL did not represent to me a good value proposition as it does now....owners of the pre-4th generation TLs, if they miss it so much, they should get on a TSX V6...that is the right car for them...

BEAR-AvHistory

Another BMW thread & the other one is still running. The new 5 is a sweet looking car & would be my choice.

BTW my '04 330ci has 74+K miles on it & to date my only out of pocket non consumable expense has been about $400 for 4 O2 sensors ($100? each from Bosch) that I replaced myself. The 4 door is under warranty & nothing but the free oil, filters & wiper blade service has been needed. My daughters BMW X3 has a similar record as do my other two daughters Honda Pilots, the only other Honda products we currently have in the family.

The 3G had a tail lite replaced (3 weeks old) wiper motor replaced, 3rd/reverse gear replaced & something (might have been a line/wire reroute, old guy brain fart) in the under hood brake system replaced..... all repaired under the 4X50 warranty or recall program. All reported at the time in the 3G forum - No issues since then.

winstrolvtec

The TL SH may be the roughest ride out of that category, and not by a tremendous margin, but it's also the best handling car in that group (with comparably equipped tires). These things tend to go hand and hand, but lets not also forget even of the cars in that group which are engineered to be the better handling cars, like the 5 and A6 (excluding the ES, LaCrosse, and CTS obviously), they tend to use better overall quailty tires which helps out a bit more than the TL's generic all seasons. The BMW uses run flats so maybe in that case there is no (or perhaps much less) of a tire advantage.

The issues with the TL's ride are generally not that it's too firm or rough. Firm is expected, most sport sedans are firm, but the firmness is generally not considered harsh, so it's not a common issue. The majority of ride issues come from the road noise level and jitteriness (cabin parts and panels rubbing and flexing) when driving over poor road surfaces. It's really an issue of noise and sound, not the ride.

I personally don't have an issue with this because the jittery tendencies are not consitent. It's very strange because I could drive over the same bump a few times and somtimes you will experience the sensation and sometimes you wont. I really don't experience that too often and it's only minor when I do but because this and road noise usually occur together, it can be quite noticeable if the cabin is silent.

That's the only time I consider this level of noise to be average at best for a luxury car but I do give consideration to the handling abilities as well as the tires and feel it's acceptable. During normal use with the heat/ac and/or stereo on or outdoor noises with the windows open, the road and jittery noise level are undetectable, for the most part. So it's one of those out of site, out of mind kind of things.

Bearcat94

You guys are funny. I don't know how this is even a contest.

Based on MSRP, BWM 535 in AWD trim starts at of $10,000 more. Comparably equipped it's approaching $20,000 more. For example:
Do "Value" and "Reliability" mean nothing to BMW owners?

saturno_v

The entire poll I think is silly simply because if you can afford the TL SH-AWD you can afford the 535i xDrive....unless you are someone that stretch the very last dollar of its budget on a car payment....

So if you like the 535 more you should have get it....period.

Sticking with a 43K car that you like less because of a 10K gap is idiotic at best...

saturno_v

That is beside the point about what people value...some folks just do not like the TL at any price period...understandable...or others value the badge....is their choice and we have to respect that.......but, again, what I find frankly silly is people buying the TL even if they like more the BMW....when can really afford a 40K+ car you have choices....


Another silly comment is "the 5er is on another planet"....no is not....

Bearcat94

OTOH, spending $10,000+ to get the same "stuff" isn't very bright either.


These kinds of comparisons are always (well, almost always) a joke. Oddly, this sub-forum has them more comparisons than any other sub-forum, including Car Talk.

I can't help but wonder if it's because the 4G TL took such a bashing that there is some under-lying need to "justify" or "rationalize" the car.

IMO, if you bought it, you shouldn't need to justify it to me, to BMW/Audi/CTS owners, or anyone else.


Actually I think it is exactly the point. Acura buyers appreciate the value.

Which goes right along with, "No need to justify your purchase."

saturno_v

I do not think the poll was about what is bright or not....frankly spending over 20K for a car is not bright nowadays.....given spoed limits and level of comfort and sportiness of modern family sedans....I recently sat on a fully loaded Mazda 6 2.5 and it is an incredible car (look included) for the money.

I abandoned the "Acura was so much better 20 years ago" section of this forum long time ago....

Alternative name for that section is "I love BMWs but I cannot afford it"

Absolutely 100% agree...

Yes they do but the poll was not about that...


On a sidenote....we all know that the TL look is controversial and many hate it....however let me tell you my little experience so far....and I'm not a die hard fanatic, ths is my first Acura and it could be the last.......if BMW really bring to the market the new M5 with manual transmission and xDrive with the sport differential it could be my next car 6-8 years down the road.

For such an ugly car, since I bought in October, I had many people spontaneously telling me what a gorgeaous sleek car it is...never happened before with my "regular" cars.....not even my wife WRX STI has attracted so much praise...

The more recent episodes......at a Best Buy parking lot, both my contractor "Man I love your new car, can I sit inside?? It looks like an aircraft cockpit " and the pest control guy "What a sleek car, so bad ass looking"

Two days ago our real estate guy that as typical mid 40 fairly successful realtor is really into cars (he drives a Hummer and a Cayman, his wife a new X5), as he gets into the garage....Wow that is a cool car!! Is the new Acura TL right??....sweet..." He did not even look at the WRX STI parked next to it....at this point my wife jokingly said "Yes but my car is cooler!!" and we laughed....

I don't know what it is, maybe here in Seattle we do not have much taste about cars

Stew4HD

I get a lot of compliments on mine too...and people staring at it, walking around it..etc... I do like being different and cool

Hamma Tyme

I said from the beginning this thread was wrong on all accounts. Now I'm looking at the score, BMW-19, TL-15......and on a Acura site.

Why guys??? Why bother doing the comparison. The CTS, G35, or virtually anything else are better competitors.

Unless you're all looking to raise blood pressure and start arguments.

What winds up happening is we're seeing the Kool-Aid Crew, Acura Haters, and a few sane members trying to keep the peace.

I started a thread of what improvements you would like to see in the 5th Generation. I thought THAT was a worthwhile thread and it died. This is the best Acura folks do is joust with the 5 Series? Damn!

potmilkz

Ok guys if the dealer told you that you can pick one of these two cars for 43k, you wouldn't take the 535i series?

there are alot of features that the 5 series offer that the TL does not.

some of the people here are giving their opinion based on price, but in this case OP gave a scenario which he said that if they were both the same price.


we are talking on a day to day general, which car would be more practical to drive around. Note that factors include road noise, comfort, ride quality, styling, mpg, etc.



also we are getting more votes on 5 series over the TL on a acura based forum.

Stew4HD

^I'd choose the TL for sure... I think the 5 series is ugly

saturno_v

While I totally agree that the poll is silly, we have to see how many people that voted actually own a TL SH-AWD, a 535i or can even afford either ones....

The poll would make a little bit more sense if it was, "of the ones that actually own a TL SH-AWD, how many would have bought the 535 at the same price??

Of the forum members that I know actually owning a TL SH-AWD, Me, Winstrolvtec, DocBoy, Stew4HD, etc...almost all cross shopped the 5 series and did choose the TL.....so the poll should be open only to actual TL owners not wannabe or 4th gen haters (for their own good reasons) which decided to keep their older gen TL or switched brand...

Stew4HD

Well said and spot on!

Hamma Tyme

Well I think the thread is dumb and I didn't vote so take me off the polling.

Stew4HD

Don't ya just hate it when a poster edits the post before you can finish quoting? LOL... I was just picking at ya, by the way... but do pass the Kool-Aid.. lemon-lime is my fav!