Edmunds IL: '09 TL Driven
08-10-2008, 09:21 PM
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Edmunds IL: '09 TL Driven
Super-Sized, Super-Handling Sedan
By Ed Hellwig, Lead Senior Editor Email | Blog
Date posted: 08-10-2008
As we hammer the 2009 Acura TL down some of Malibu's most challenging canyon roads, the big sedan is handling itself well. It carries enough speed through the corners to make us a little nervous, but the lack of tire squeal makes it clear that we're far from pushing its limits.
Jamming this TL into a hairpin doesn't upset it either. The brakes scrub off plenty of speed and the transmission executes perfect, rev-matched downshifts. When we flat foot the throttle on the way out, the newly optional Super Handling All-Wheel Drive (SH-AWD) system puts down all 305 horsepower of the 3.7-liter V6 to the pavement without a single chirp of the tires.
When we finally hit leisurely traffic on Pacific Coast Highway, the TL returns to luxury sedan mode. The cabin goes silent, the transmission smoothly sifts though the gears and the suspension soaks up everything short of a sinkhole. We're not surprised, as this is the classic Acura formula — admirable performance coupled with high-tech luxury, and now the TL has a little more of both.
It's Always More, More, More
As capable as this 2009 Acura TL SH-AWD is in the canyons, its bulk is hard to ignore. Like most redesigned cars these days, the TL is bigger than its predecessor. Growth has been the de facto "improvement" for decades now, so much so that it seemed considered radical when Nissan introduced a slightly shrunken Maxima sedan for 2009.
Acura says it was just listening to its customers who, when asked if they would like more room, shockingly said "yes," so this TL is slightly taller, nearly two inches wider and over five inches longer than the '08 model. All of which puts the 2009 TL Acura squarely in the midsize luxury sedan class, eclipsing cars like the BMW 5 Series and Mercedes-Benz E-Class in overall size.
In fact, the TL is now considerably wider than Acura's flagship RL sedan and only a half-inch shorter in overall length. The TL and RL share the same height and ride on a wheelbase that's within an inch of one another.
The TL is almost as heavy as an RL, as a loaded TL SH-AWD tips the scales at 3,986 pounds. That's just over 300 pounds more than the '08 TL Type-S, the previous range topper which was available only in front-wheel drive. Meanwhile, the 2009 TL with front-wheel drive is only about 100 pounds heavier than before.
Split Personalities
Yes, there's still a front-wheel-drive version of the TL. It's now been pegged as the less aggressive model although it still gets a healthy 280 hp out of the same 3.5-liter V6 featured in last year's TL Type-S.
The TL SH-AWD is upgraded with the larger 3.7-liter V6 from the RL. Minor tuning changes push the SH-AWD's V6 to 305 horsepower at 6,200 rpm and 275 pound-feet of torque at 5,000 rpm making this Acura's most powerful engine ever.
Every 2009 Acura TL regardless of model designation features a five-speed automatic transmission with manual shift capability via shift paddles on the steering wheel. None of the gear ratios have been changed compared to last year's transmission, although the all-wheel-drive model gets a shorter 4.53:1 final-drive to improve acceleration from the relatively heavy car. Acura says a manual transmission is coming for 2010, so expect the return of the Type-S designation then.
Despite the extra power, the TL SH-AWD doesn't feel much quicker than the standard TL. Sure, there's an extra 25 hp on board, but there's also another 200 pounds of weight too. The TL uses the same Super Handling All-Wheel-Drive system as the RL, so it's able to vary power between the front and rear wheels as well as between the rear wheels themselves.
Both versions of the TL feel plenty fast under full throttle. There's softness at the low end that you rarely get with BMW's twin-turbo 3.0-liter inline-6, but overall the TL's engine is hard to fault. According to Acura, the TL SH-AWD is 0.3 seconds quicker from zero-to-60-mph than last year's TL Type-S, so figure it will run in the low six-second range.
The Makings of a Sport Sedan
There's a far more noticeable distinction between the two TL models (and their predecessors), when it comes to the ride and handling. The new TL uses the same basic suspension setup as before, with double wishbones up front and a multi-link setup in back. In addition to a long list of minor changes like strengthened subframes and hydraulic bushings for the front lower wishbones, the upgrades for the SH-AWD model are more extensive.
According to Acura, the all-wheel-drive model has 32 percent stiffer springs, 20 percent more damping force and 28 percent greater roll stiffness. The new-for-2009 electric power steering system for the TL also has been tuned for increased effort at higher speeds for the SH-AWD, while the front brakes get additional cooling ducts in the front fascia along with revised settings for the power assist.
Wheel and tire upgrades are part of the SH-AWD package as well. Although, even base TLs have been upgraded with 245/50R17 Bridgestone Turanza tires, the SH-AWD versions get even larger 245/45R18 Michelin Pilot rubber. There's also an optional set of 19-inch wheels with even stickier 245/40ZR19 Michelin Pilot Sport S2 tires.
Still a Good Compromise
It all sounds very aggressive for an Acura, but the all-wheel-drive TL is still very much the comfortable cruiser it's always been. Even with the optional 19-inch wheels and tires, there's minimal road and wind noise and the more aggressive steering feels more responsive, not just heavier.
The same goes for the suspension, as it manages to give the all-wheel-drive model a much more buttoned-down feel without resorting to an overly stiff ride quality. For such a big car, the Acura TL AWD doesn't roll much when pushed hard through a corner and a good stab of the throttle keeps understeer in check thanks to the SH-AWD system. It's able to direct up to 70 percent of the power to the rear wheels and 100 percent of that power to the outside tire to help get the TL turned in. It sounds gimmicky, but the TL SH-AWD does get through tight corners far more gracefully than its front-wheel-drive counterpart.
Never known for great brakes, this Acura TL has been upgraded to a far more competitive level. The front calipers are now dual-piston units that grab 12.6-inch rotors, which is one more piston and 21 percent more swept area than before. Strangely enough, the rear rotors are even bigger at 13.1 inches, although they stick with single-piston calipers. Pedal feel is quite good and fade proved minimal during our aggressive canyon runs.
A Nice Place to Work
If there's one drawback to the impressive agility of the 2009 Acura TL SH-AWD, it's the fact that its dynamic ability reveals a lack of support in the front seats. There are more pronounced side bolsters for the seats of the SH-AWD model, but the seat cushion is still too flat for aggressive driving. A meaty rim for the three-spoke steering wheel is there for you to hang on, so the seats are hardly a deal breaker.
There's plenty of room for virtually any size driver, although curiously enough, legroom and headroom up front have actually declined fractionally, despite the overall increase in the car's package size. Most of the extra interior space went to the back seat, where leg, hip and shoulder room are all up a half-inch to an inch or so. The trunk is slightly bigger too (12.3 to 12.5 cubic feet), although non-AWD models have 13.1 cu. ft. since there's no rear differential in the way.
Acura stuck with a center-stack design that's heavy on the buttons, although there's a big joystick for the navigation system that's front and center. It's still not the most intuitive layout we've seen, but it doesn't take long to figure out the basics. Ordering the Technology package adds a huge 8-inch navigation screen at the top of the dash that's capable of displaying directions, photos and even real time weather radar. A 440-watt, 10-speaker audio system is also part of the package. All TL's get Bluetooth connectivity, a USB connector and an auxiliary jack.
Is This Still Entry Level?
Between its size and price, the 2009 Acura TL looks like its slowly making an exit out of the entry-level luxury sedan class. No final prices have been announced yet, but Acura said the base price for a front-wheel-drive TL will start at around $34,000 when it goes on sale in September. The all-wheel-drive model won't hit dealers until November and a fully loaded version will come in around $42,000.
Those are hardly entry-level numbers, but the TL can justify the price. Put it up against any midsize European sport sedan and it'll likely match it for performance, features and comfort. The TL still lacks the prestige factor, but it's never really relied on that element anyway.
With that in mind, don't consider this TL a remake of the old model. Instead, think of it as more of a bridge between that model and the RL. Hardware-wise, it practically is an RL, but when that car soon converts to a rear-wheel-drive platform with V8 power, the TL will suddenly fit right in. Then it can start worrying about the prestige problem.
Edmunds attended a manufacturer-sponsored event, to which selected members of the press were invited, to facilitate this report.
By Ed Hellwig, Lead Senior Editor Email | Blog
Date posted: 08-10-2008
As we hammer the 2009 Acura TL down some of Malibu's most challenging canyon roads, the big sedan is handling itself well. It carries enough speed through the corners to make us a little nervous, but the lack of tire squeal makes it clear that we're far from pushing its limits.
Jamming this TL into a hairpin doesn't upset it either. The brakes scrub off plenty of speed and the transmission executes perfect, rev-matched downshifts. When we flat foot the throttle on the way out, the newly optional Super Handling All-Wheel Drive (SH-AWD) system puts down all 305 horsepower of the 3.7-liter V6 to the pavement without a single chirp of the tires.
When we finally hit leisurely traffic on Pacific Coast Highway, the TL returns to luxury sedan mode. The cabin goes silent, the transmission smoothly sifts though the gears and the suspension soaks up everything short of a sinkhole. We're not surprised, as this is the classic Acura formula — admirable performance coupled with high-tech luxury, and now the TL has a little more of both.
It's Always More, More, More
As capable as this 2009 Acura TL SH-AWD is in the canyons, its bulk is hard to ignore. Like most redesigned cars these days, the TL is bigger than its predecessor. Growth has been the de facto "improvement" for decades now, so much so that it seemed considered radical when Nissan introduced a slightly shrunken Maxima sedan for 2009.
Acura says it was just listening to its customers who, when asked if they would like more room, shockingly said "yes," so this TL is slightly taller, nearly two inches wider and over five inches longer than the '08 model. All of which puts the 2009 TL Acura squarely in the midsize luxury sedan class, eclipsing cars like the BMW 5 Series and Mercedes-Benz E-Class in overall size.
In fact, the TL is now considerably wider than Acura's flagship RL sedan and only a half-inch shorter in overall length. The TL and RL share the same height and ride on a wheelbase that's within an inch of one another.
The TL is almost as heavy as an RL, as a loaded TL SH-AWD tips the scales at 3,986 pounds. That's just over 300 pounds more than the '08 TL Type-S, the previous range topper which was available only in front-wheel drive. Meanwhile, the 2009 TL with front-wheel drive is only about 100 pounds heavier than before.
Split Personalities
Yes, there's still a front-wheel-drive version of the TL. It's now been pegged as the less aggressive model although it still gets a healthy 280 hp out of the same 3.5-liter V6 featured in last year's TL Type-S.
The TL SH-AWD is upgraded with the larger 3.7-liter V6 from the RL. Minor tuning changes push the SH-AWD's V6 to 305 horsepower at 6,200 rpm and 275 pound-feet of torque at 5,000 rpm making this Acura's most powerful engine ever.
Every 2009 Acura TL regardless of model designation features a five-speed automatic transmission with manual shift capability via shift paddles on the steering wheel. None of the gear ratios have been changed compared to last year's transmission, although the all-wheel-drive model gets a shorter 4.53:1 final-drive to improve acceleration from the relatively heavy car. Acura says a manual transmission is coming for 2010, so expect the return of the Type-S designation then.
Despite the extra power, the TL SH-AWD doesn't feel much quicker than the standard TL. Sure, there's an extra 25 hp on board, but there's also another 200 pounds of weight too. The TL uses the same Super Handling All-Wheel-Drive system as the RL, so it's able to vary power between the front and rear wheels as well as between the rear wheels themselves.
Both versions of the TL feel plenty fast under full throttle. There's softness at the low end that you rarely get with BMW's twin-turbo 3.0-liter inline-6, but overall the TL's engine is hard to fault. According to Acura, the TL SH-AWD is 0.3 seconds quicker from zero-to-60-mph than last year's TL Type-S, so figure it will run in the low six-second range.
The Makings of a Sport Sedan
There's a far more noticeable distinction between the two TL models (and their predecessors), when it comes to the ride and handling. The new TL uses the same basic suspension setup as before, with double wishbones up front and a multi-link setup in back. In addition to a long list of minor changes like strengthened subframes and hydraulic bushings for the front lower wishbones, the upgrades for the SH-AWD model are more extensive.
According to Acura, the all-wheel-drive model has 32 percent stiffer springs, 20 percent more damping force and 28 percent greater roll stiffness. The new-for-2009 electric power steering system for the TL also has been tuned for increased effort at higher speeds for the SH-AWD, while the front brakes get additional cooling ducts in the front fascia along with revised settings for the power assist.
Wheel and tire upgrades are part of the SH-AWD package as well. Although, even base TLs have been upgraded with 245/50R17 Bridgestone Turanza tires, the SH-AWD versions get even larger 245/45R18 Michelin Pilot rubber. There's also an optional set of 19-inch wheels with even stickier 245/40ZR19 Michelin Pilot Sport S2 tires.
Still a Good Compromise
It all sounds very aggressive for an Acura, but the all-wheel-drive TL is still very much the comfortable cruiser it's always been. Even with the optional 19-inch wheels and tires, there's minimal road and wind noise and the more aggressive steering feels more responsive, not just heavier.
The same goes for the suspension, as it manages to give the all-wheel-drive model a much more buttoned-down feel without resorting to an overly stiff ride quality. For such a big car, the Acura TL AWD doesn't roll much when pushed hard through a corner and a good stab of the throttle keeps understeer in check thanks to the SH-AWD system. It's able to direct up to 70 percent of the power to the rear wheels and 100 percent of that power to the outside tire to help get the TL turned in. It sounds gimmicky, but the TL SH-AWD does get through tight corners far more gracefully than its front-wheel-drive counterpart.
Never known for great brakes, this Acura TL has been upgraded to a far more competitive level. The front calipers are now dual-piston units that grab 12.6-inch rotors, which is one more piston and 21 percent more swept area than before. Strangely enough, the rear rotors are even bigger at 13.1 inches, although they stick with single-piston calipers. Pedal feel is quite good and fade proved minimal during our aggressive canyon runs.
A Nice Place to Work
If there's one drawback to the impressive agility of the 2009 Acura TL SH-AWD, it's the fact that its dynamic ability reveals a lack of support in the front seats. There are more pronounced side bolsters for the seats of the SH-AWD model, but the seat cushion is still too flat for aggressive driving. A meaty rim for the three-spoke steering wheel is there for you to hang on, so the seats are hardly a deal breaker.
There's plenty of room for virtually any size driver, although curiously enough, legroom and headroom up front have actually declined fractionally, despite the overall increase in the car's package size. Most of the extra interior space went to the back seat, where leg, hip and shoulder room are all up a half-inch to an inch or so. The trunk is slightly bigger too (12.3 to 12.5 cubic feet), although non-AWD models have 13.1 cu. ft. since there's no rear differential in the way.
Acura stuck with a center-stack design that's heavy on the buttons, although there's a big joystick for the navigation system that's front and center. It's still not the most intuitive layout we've seen, but it doesn't take long to figure out the basics. Ordering the Technology package adds a huge 8-inch navigation screen at the top of the dash that's capable of displaying directions, photos and even real time weather radar. A 440-watt, 10-speaker audio system is also part of the package. All TL's get Bluetooth connectivity, a USB connector and an auxiliary jack.
Is This Still Entry Level?
Between its size and price, the 2009 Acura TL looks like its slowly making an exit out of the entry-level luxury sedan class. No final prices have been announced yet, but Acura said the base price for a front-wheel-drive TL will start at around $34,000 when it goes on sale in September. The all-wheel-drive model won't hit dealers until November and a fully loaded version will come in around $42,000.
Those are hardly entry-level numbers, but the TL can justify the price. Put it up against any midsize European sport sedan and it'll likely match it for performance, features and comfort. The TL still lacks the prestige factor, but it's never really relied on that element anyway.
With that in mind, don't consider this TL a remake of the old model. Instead, think of it as more of a bridge between that model and the RL. Hardware-wise, it practically is an RL, but when that car soon converts to a rear-wheel-drive platform with V8 power, the TL will suddenly fit right in. Then it can start worrying about the prestige problem.
Edmunds attended a manufacturer-sponsored event, to which selected members of the press were invited, to facilitate this report.
08-10-2008, 09:45 PM
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"According to Acura, the TL SH-AWD is 0.3 seconds quicker from zero-to-60-mph than last year's TL Type-S, so figure it will run in the low six-second range."
09 TL...heavier and auto still beats the lighter 6sp 08 TL-S. I find it hard to believe.
I guess no wheel spin/torque steer with the sh-awd.
"With that in mind, don't consider this TL a remake of the old model. Instead, think of it as more of a bridge between that model and the RL. Hardware-wise, it practically is an RL, but when that car soon converts to a rear-wheel-drive platform with V8 power, the TL will suddenly fit right in. Then it can start worrying about the prestige problem."
RL w/ rwd??????
09 TL...heavier and auto still beats the lighter 6sp 08 TL-S. I find it hard to believe.
I guess no wheel spin/torque steer with the sh-awd.
"With that in mind, don't consider this TL a remake of the old model. Instead, think of it as more of a bridge between that model and the RL. Hardware-wise, it practically is an RL, but when that car soon converts to a rear-wheel-drive platform with V8 power, the TL will suddenly fit right in. Then it can start worrying about the prestige problem."
RL w/ rwd??????
08-10-2008, 10:02 PM
#3
Originally Posted by cbusAcuracls
"According to Acura, the TL SH-AWD is 0.3 seconds quicker from zero-to-60-mph than last year's TL Type-S, so figure it will run in the low six-second range."
09 TL...heavier and auto still beats the lighter 6sp 08 TL-S. I find it hard to believe.
I guess no wheel spin/torque steer with the sh-awd.
"With that in mind, don't consider this TL a remake of the old model. Instead, think of it as more of a bridge between that model and the RL. Hardware-wise, it practically is an RL, but when that car soon converts to a rear-wheel-drive platform with V8 power, the TL will suddenly fit right in. Then it can start worrying about the prestige problem."
RL w/ rwd??????
09 TL...heavier and auto still beats the lighter 6sp 08 TL-S. I find it hard to believe.
I guess no wheel spin/torque steer with the sh-awd.
"With that in mind, don't consider this TL a remake of the old model. Instead, think of it as more of a bridge between that model and the RL. Hardware-wise, it practically is an RL, but when that car soon converts to a rear-wheel-drive platform with V8 power, the TL will suddenly fit right in. Then it can start worrying about the prestige problem."
RL w/ rwd??????
08-10-2008, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Colin
It's been heavily suggested that the TSX and TL are the last sedans to share their architecture with the Accord. The next generation of sedans will be based on a new RWD based chassis for the next RL and possibly the V-10 supercar. While these will be RWD biased, I fully expect them to retain SH capability as this is supposed to become the "corporate identity" for Acura
hmm.... interesting. About time Acura brings some cars back to the big leagues.
I'll never own one for practicality reasons but I will like seeing them pulled up next to me at stop lights. ha
08-10-2008, 10:23 PM
#6
Originally Posted by say when
300 lbs heavier and awd. I doubt it will be faster then the 07-08 tl-s. Awd sucks power and 300lbs is no joke.
08-11-2008, 02:08 AM
#7
It's clear why the 4GN TL is so big, almost like the RL.
In 2 years the RL will shift up to another class, the A8, S, LS one...
It's a very positive test drive for beginning.
This is a 100% different car from the 3GN TL, less hearth braking and more brain using...
I can hardly imaging HOW GOOD the Sh-AWD is in this car... WOW.
In 2 years the RL will shift up to another class, the A8, S, LS one...
It's a very positive test drive for beginning.
This is a 100% different car from the 3GN TL, less hearth braking and more brain using...
I can hardly imaging HOW GOOD the Sh-AWD is in this car... WOW.
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08-11-2008, 06:25 AM
#8
Originally Posted by Colin
It's been heavily suggested that the TSX and TL are the last sedans to share their architecture with the Accord. The next generation of sedans will be based on a new RWD based chassis for the next RL and possibly the V-10 supercar. While these will be RWD biased, I fully expect them to retain SH capability as this is supposed to become the "corporate identity" for Acura
08-11-2008, 08:33 AM
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Seems clear to me now that the new TL is a 5 series, E class, Lexus GS competitor.
A future RL will move to a LS, 7 series etc. competitor.
Now what does Acura have in the wings for a 3 series, IS etc. competitor? The TSX is not it.
A future RL will move to a LS, 7 series etc. competitor.
Now what does Acura have in the wings for a 3 series, IS etc. competitor? The TSX is not it.
08-11-2008, 09:37 AM
#10
Drifting
that thing is nearly two tons loaded.
to put it into perspective, the GT-R needed a more sophisticated drivetrain, twin turbos and 400+ HP to accelerate out of the hole and defy physics.
no way the AWD TL can overcome two tons of weight just like that.
to put it into perspective, the GT-R needed a more sophisticated drivetrain, twin turbos and 400+ HP to accelerate out of the hole and defy physics.
no way the AWD TL can overcome two tons of weight just like that.
08-11-2008, 12:23 PM
#11
I am right now on the fence - about to buy an 08 TL-S. I have been waiting and waiting to get specs on the 09.
now that I see the curb weight... I'm really starting to lean toward an 08. I want somethign that will handle well and be fun to drive, but I want to sort of fast. The 08 TL-S is a great all around car - decent power, decent handling, good looks.
the new TL is ugly. although I will reserve judgment until it is out on the streets and I see it in person. there have been cars that I hated when I first saw them, and then gradually they grew on me and I like them now. so maybe that is the case. time will tell.
but the curb weight of this new TL- is going to really hurt it. it's basically an RL. it has 305 hp and AWD. i have driven the second gen RLs. they are rated at 290hp. they are not nearly as fasta s a TL-S. the new TL weighs about what the RL does. with barely more power.
I honestly think that what Acura is going is just taking each car and moving it up one "rung' in terms of competition. the NEW TSX is going to be the "TL" we are used to. the TL is going to become like the RL. and the RLwill move "upscale" with more power, more size to try and compete head on with the BMW 7 series and Lexus LS type cars.
they will have
TSX - 3 series
TL - 5 series
RL - 7 series.
Right now i"m shopping for a small sporty sedan. The current 3 series BMW is too small for my needs. as is the A4, IS350, etc. they are all too small. the current TL is big enough to fit my kids in back, it's not as big/heavy as a 5 series or GS, but it's more functional than a 3 series in rear seat room.
now that the TSX has been redone - to me it looks more like an existing TL in terms of space, only maybe a tad smaller - i.e. it is the same in size as a 3 series. the TL now will be bigger and more on par with a 5, GS.
in terms of what will Acura come out with to compete with the 335 and IS350 - I would NOT bet on a TL.
It's going to be a TSX Type S. Watch them shove that 305hp V6 into the TSX with AWD. then it would be light enough maybe to make it sportier. that's my guess.
as far as buying right now - and wanting somethign the size of the 08 TL - I don't think i'm going to wait for anew TL. it's not going to be any faster than an 08 TL-S and it might even be slower.
yeah they claim it's faster than the old Type S, but they have to say that. Mitsu tried to say the new EVO X was faster than teh IX and it's not. handling is better, matierals are upscale, but it's slower. period. it weighs more.
edmunds rates a 08 TL-S at just under 3600lbs or so. this new car is almost 4000. tha'ts more than a 300 lb difference. more like 400. that's a lot. plus the new car has AWD which sucks up more power than the auto tranny in a curent TL-S.
my guess is the outgoing 08 TL-S will be faster than even the "new' SH-AWD version with 305hp. Acura will need to have a newer / faster version with more like 330-350hp to blatantly "smoke" a 286 hp / lighter/ FWD TL-S.
the new car may easily outhandle the "old" TL-S.... but faster.. i kind of doubt it.
for people like me shopping right NOW - I can get a TL-S for $33k. MSRP on the new SH-AWD version is going to be $42k. I doubt there will be $10k incentives... making the new car quite a bit more expensive too.
now that I see the curb weight... I'm really starting to lean toward an 08. I want somethign that will handle well and be fun to drive, but I want to sort of fast. The 08 TL-S is a great all around car - decent power, decent handling, good looks.
the new TL is ugly. although I will reserve judgment until it is out on the streets and I see it in person. there have been cars that I hated when I first saw them, and then gradually they grew on me and I like them now. so maybe that is the case. time will tell.
but the curb weight of this new TL- is going to really hurt it. it's basically an RL. it has 305 hp and AWD. i have driven the second gen RLs. they are rated at 290hp. they are not nearly as fasta s a TL-S. the new TL weighs about what the RL does. with barely more power.
I honestly think that what Acura is going is just taking each car and moving it up one "rung' in terms of competition. the NEW TSX is going to be the "TL" we are used to. the TL is going to become like the RL. and the RLwill move "upscale" with more power, more size to try and compete head on with the BMW 7 series and Lexus LS type cars.
they will have
TSX - 3 series
TL - 5 series
RL - 7 series.
Right now i"m shopping for a small sporty sedan. The current 3 series BMW is too small for my needs. as is the A4, IS350, etc. they are all too small. the current TL is big enough to fit my kids in back, it's not as big/heavy as a 5 series or GS, but it's more functional than a 3 series in rear seat room.
now that the TSX has been redone - to me it looks more like an existing TL in terms of space, only maybe a tad smaller - i.e. it is the same in size as a 3 series. the TL now will be bigger and more on par with a 5, GS.
in terms of what will Acura come out with to compete with the 335 and IS350 - I would NOT bet on a TL.
It's going to be a TSX Type S. Watch them shove that 305hp V6 into the TSX with AWD. then it would be light enough maybe to make it sportier. that's my guess.
as far as buying right now - and wanting somethign the size of the 08 TL - I don't think i'm going to wait for anew TL. it's not going to be any faster than an 08 TL-S and it might even be slower.
yeah they claim it's faster than the old Type S, but they have to say that. Mitsu tried to say the new EVO X was faster than teh IX and it's not. handling is better, matierals are upscale, but it's slower. period. it weighs more.
edmunds rates a 08 TL-S at just under 3600lbs or so. this new car is almost 4000. tha'ts more than a 300 lb difference. more like 400. that's a lot. plus the new car has AWD which sucks up more power than the auto tranny in a curent TL-S.
my guess is the outgoing 08 TL-S will be faster than even the "new' SH-AWD version with 305hp. Acura will need to have a newer / faster version with more like 330-350hp to blatantly "smoke" a 286 hp / lighter/ FWD TL-S.
the new car may easily outhandle the "old" TL-S.... but faster.. i kind of doubt it.
for people like me shopping right NOW - I can get a TL-S for $33k. MSRP on the new SH-AWD version is going to be $42k. I doubt there will be $10k incentives... making the new car quite a bit more expensive too.
08-11-2008, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by 23109VC
I am right now on the fence - about to buy an 08 TL-S. I have been waiting and waiting to get specs on the 09.
now that I see the curb weight... I'm really starting to lean toward an 08. I want somethign that will handle well and be fun to drive, but I want to sort of fast. The 08 TL-S is a great all around car - decent power, decent handling, good looks.
the new TL is ugly. although I will reserve judgment until it is out on the streets and I see it in person. there have been cars that I hated when I first saw them, and then gradually they grew on me and I like them now. so maybe that is the case. time will tell.
but the curb weight of this new TL- is going to really hurt it. it's basically an RL. it has 305 hp and AWD. i have driven the second gen RLs. they are rated at 290hp. they are not nearly as fasta s a TL-S. the new TL weighs about what the RL does. with barely more power.
I honestly think that what Acura is going is just taking each car and moving it up one "rung' in terms of competition. the NEW TSX is going to be the "TL" we are used to. the TL is going to become like the RL. and the RLwill move "upscale" with more power, more size to try and compete head on with the BMW 7 series and Lexus LS type cars.
they will have
TSX - 3 series
TL - 5 series
RL - 7 series.
Right now i"m shopping for a small sporty sedan. The current 3 series BMW is too small for my needs. as is the A4, IS350, etc. they are all too small. the current TL is big enough to fit my kids in back, it's not as big/heavy as a 5 series or GS, but it's more functional than a 3 series in rear seat room.
now that the TSX has been redone - to me it looks more like an existing TL in terms of space, only maybe a tad smaller - i.e. it is the same in size as a 3 series. the TL now will be bigger and more on par with a 5, GS.
in terms of what will Acura come out with to compete with the 335 and IS350 - I would NOT bet on a TL.
It's going to be a TSX Type S. Watch them shove that 305hp V6 into the TSX with AWD. then it would be light enough maybe to make it sportier. that's my guess.
as far as buying right now - and wanting somethign the size of the 08 TL - I don't think i'm going to wait for anew TL. it's not going to be any faster than an 08 TL-S and it might even be slower.
yeah they claim it's faster than the old Type S, but they have to say that. Mitsu tried to say the new EVO X was faster than teh IX and it's not. handling is better, matierals are upscale, but it's slower. period. it weighs more.
edmunds rates a 08 TL-S at just under 3600lbs or so. this new car is almost 4000. tha'ts more than a 300 lb difference. more like 400. that's a lot. plus the new car has AWD which sucks up more power than the auto tranny in a curent TL-S.
my guess is the outgoing 08 TL-S will be faster than even the "new' SH-AWD version with 305hp. Acura will need to have a newer / faster version with more like 330-350hp to blatantly "smoke" a 286 hp / lighter/ FWD TL-S.
the new car may easily outhandle the "old" TL-S.... but faster.. i kind of doubt it.
for people like me shopping right NOW - I can get a TL-S for $33k. MSRP on the new SH-AWD version is going to be $42k. I doubt there will be $10k incentives... making the new car quite a bit more expensive too.
now that I see the curb weight... I'm really starting to lean toward an 08. I want somethign that will handle well and be fun to drive, but I want to sort of fast. The 08 TL-S is a great all around car - decent power, decent handling, good looks.
the new TL is ugly. although I will reserve judgment until it is out on the streets and I see it in person. there have been cars that I hated when I first saw them, and then gradually they grew on me and I like them now. so maybe that is the case. time will tell.
but the curb weight of this new TL- is going to really hurt it. it's basically an RL. it has 305 hp and AWD. i have driven the second gen RLs. they are rated at 290hp. they are not nearly as fasta s a TL-S. the new TL weighs about what the RL does. with barely more power.
I honestly think that what Acura is going is just taking each car and moving it up one "rung' in terms of competition. the NEW TSX is going to be the "TL" we are used to. the TL is going to become like the RL. and the RLwill move "upscale" with more power, more size to try and compete head on with the BMW 7 series and Lexus LS type cars.
they will have
TSX - 3 series
TL - 5 series
RL - 7 series.
Right now i"m shopping for a small sporty sedan. The current 3 series BMW is too small for my needs. as is the A4, IS350, etc. they are all too small. the current TL is big enough to fit my kids in back, it's not as big/heavy as a 5 series or GS, but it's more functional than a 3 series in rear seat room.
now that the TSX has been redone - to me it looks more like an existing TL in terms of space, only maybe a tad smaller - i.e. it is the same in size as a 3 series. the TL now will be bigger and more on par with a 5, GS.
in terms of what will Acura come out with to compete with the 335 and IS350 - I would NOT bet on a TL.
It's going to be a TSX Type S. Watch them shove that 305hp V6 into the TSX with AWD. then it would be light enough maybe to make it sportier. that's my guess.
as far as buying right now - and wanting somethign the size of the 08 TL - I don't think i'm going to wait for anew TL. it's not going to be any faster than an 08 TL-S and it might even be slower.
yeah they claim it's faster than the old Type S, but they have to say that. Mitsu tried to say the new EVO X was faster than teh IX and it's not. handling is better, matierals are upscale, but it's slower. period. it weighs more.
edmunds rates a 08 TL-S at just under 3600lbs or so. this new car is almost 4000. tha'ts more than a 300 lb difference. more like 400. that's a lot. plus the new car has AWD which sucks up more power than the auto tranny in a curent TL-S.
my guess is the outgoing 08 TL-S will be faster than even the "new' SH-AWD version with 305hp. Acura will need to have a newer / faster version with more like 330-350hp to blatantly "smoke" a 286 hp / lighter/ FWD TL-S.
the new car may easily outhandle the "old" TL-S.... but faster.. i kind of doubt it.
for people like me shopping right NOW - I can get a TL-S for $33k. MSRP on the new SH-AWD version is going to be $42k. I doubt there will be $10k incentives... making the new car quite a bit more expensive too.
Sounds to me...you already made your decision and I agree w/ it. I'd just get the TL-S and be happy. The 09 TL is fugly. My buddy has a 07 TL-S and its a very nice very sharp machine. The 09 TL needs alot of work in my eyes. my
08-11-2008, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 23109VC
for people like me shopping right NOW - I can get a TL-S for $33k. MSRP on the new SH-AWD version is going to be $42k. I doubt there will be $10k incentives... making the new car quite a bit more expensive too.
08-11-2008, 02:46 PM
#14
2G TLX-S
Who's knows if Acura might chuck in the V8, from the 2010 RL, into the 2011 SH-AWD TL-S.
08-11-2008, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
Who's knows if Acura might chuck in the V8, from the 2010 RL, into the 2011 SH-AWD TL-S.
08-11-2008, 06:19 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
Who's knows if Acura might chuck in the V8, from the 2010 RL, into the 2011 SH-AWD TL-S.
08-11-2008, 06:47 PM
#17
Senior Moderator
The SH-AWD TL is basically an RL. The interior totally rocks. Again, can't wait to test drive it, looks or no.
As an RL owner, I have great hopes for the next RL based on this. Maybe the decade-long rumors that the RL will have a V8 and RWD will actually happen.
As an RL owner, I have great hopes for the next RL based on this. Maybe the decade-long rumors that the RL will have a V8 and RWD will actually happen.
08-11-2008, 06:58 PM
#18
Originally Posted by metalblaze
I am in somewhat similar league as you, and given the deals folks have been lately getting on '08 TL-S (< $33k), I am leaning towards signing the deal. However, I would at least wait for another month and take the '09 TL for a spin before deciding...
if you can get an 08 TL-S for about $33k do you think you'll get an 09 TL SH-AWD for the same price or even close?
when they first hit they will try to extort MSPR out of people. and if/when they do start to realize they aren't selling, the will discount them..but how much?
i would tend to doubt you will see the new TL selling for $33k.
i don't like it. maybe itw ill grow on me..but i just don't care for it. and the extra weight...it's not going to be that fast. not that the 08 TL-S is any rocket sled, but i am bettin the new TL will be slower not faster like Acura claims.
08-11-2008, 08:09 PM
#20
2G TLX-S
Originally Posted by whatjones911
Thats not gonna happen. The chassis is a accord chassis which is a front wheel drive base. If Acura is going to put a V8 they need a rwd-base chassis in order to do so
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