BMW 335xi vs 2012 TL, Epic Fail Acura?
04-16-2011, 06:15 PM
#121
Drifting
Thread Starter
Is the logic 7 the same as the Individual? I didn't think it was but maybe it's just different names for the US and Canada. To be clear, the base BMW sound system sucks and is not the one I was referring to. That Individual sound system alone up here was an extra $1500 on my 335d and was worth every penny although I didn't really pay for it. It's also the stock system in the E92 M3 up here.
The Logic 7 is NOT the same of the BMW Individual Audio. BMW Canada has three different sound systems:
- Base Hi-Fi, basically crap
- Logic 7 with 13 speakers by Harman Kardon
- Individual Audio with 16 speakers by DIRAC
Thanks man. This gives me some much needed confidence in the BMW system, quite a few posts criticizing the Individual Audio on BMW forums.
04-16-2011, 06:28 PM
#122
BTW, I'm not talking about rwd oversteer, here. I'm talking about one wheel spinning and the DSC killing power to the point it was like pulling out into traffic with my very first car, a 1984 Olds Ciera diesel....
With all the stability/traction stuff turned on, I can actually get power oversteer easier in the Acura SH-AWD 6MT than in could with the BMW. With the DSC system off, the one spinning wheel of the BMW could get the back end to come around.
With all the stability/traction stuff turned on, I can actually get power oversteer easier in the Acura SH-AWD 6MT than in could with the BMW. With the DSC system off, the one spinning wheel of the BMW could get the back end to come around.
04-16-2011, 06:45 PM
#123
Don't know about the indivdual but the Logic 7 is not a discrete surround system, it's matrix which is surround reproduction. The ELS supports 5.1 discrete via DTS otherwise known as DVD-A (there is also Dolby Digital DVD-A). Likewise the TL supports Dolby ProLogic II which is a 5.1 matrix standard and is a very recognized format. Often times there is less mixing of the sound source in the TL so it remains very clean.
All sources in the Logic 7 are remixed and even if there is support for DVD-A formats, it is not original and playback is not as intended. I am sure the system is very good nontheless, there's lots of power and many speakers. Probably depends on what you are looking for and what you prefer when you listen to each.
All sources in the Logic 7 are remixed and even if there is support for DVD-A formats, it is not original and playback is not as intended. I am sure the system is very good nontheless, there's lots of power and many speakers. Probably depends on what you are looking for and what you prefer when you listen to each.
04-16-2011, 06:52 PM
#124
Drifting
Thread Starter
Don't know about the indivdual but the Logic 7 is not a discrete surround system, it's matrix which is surround reproduction. The ELS supports 5.1 discrete via DTS otherwise known as DVD-A (there is also Dolby Digital DVD-A). Likewise the TL supports Dolby ProLogic II which is a 5.1 matrix standard and is a very recognized format. Often times there is less mixing of the sound source in the TL so it remains very clean.
All sources in the Logic 7 are remixed and even if there is support for DVD-A formats, it is not original and playback is not as intended. I am sure the system is very good nontheless, there's lots of power and many speakers. Probably depends on what you are looking for and what you prefer when you listen to each.
All sources in the Logic 7 are remixed and even if there is support for DVD-A formats, it is not original and playback is not as intended. I am sure the system is very good nontheless, there's lots of power and many speakers. Probably depends on what you are looking for and what you prefer when you listen to each.
If I can actually playback music video with 5.1 sound stored on USB drive, even just the audio portion without video playback. Then I think that will make a big difference.
04-16-2011, 06:52 PM
#125
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The Logic 7 is NOT the same of the BMW Individual Audio. BMW Canada has three different sound systems:
- Base Hi-Fi, basically crap
- Logic 7 with 13 speakers by Harman Kardon
- Individual Audio with 16 speakers by DIRAC
Thanks man. This gives me some much needed confidence in the BMW system, quite a few posts criticizing the Individual Audio on BMW forums.
- Base Hi-Fi, basically crap
- Logic 7 with 13 speakers by Harman Kardon
- Individual Audio with 16 speakers by DIRAC
Thanks man. This gives me some much needed confidence in the BMW system, quite a few posts criticizing the Individual Audio on BMW forums.
BTW, I've also heard from a friend who owns a '11 M3 (who actually was the previous owner of my '08 M3) and BMW salesmen that the '11 BMW with Individual Sound has changed a bit from the '08-'10 and there have been lots of complaints about it. Something to do with the radio quality but not sure.
04-16-2011, 07:00 PM
#126
Drifting
Thread Starter
BTW, I'm not talking about rwd oversteer, here. I'm talking about one wheel spinning and the DSC killing power to the point it was like pulling out into traffic with my very first car, a 1984 Olds Ciera diesel....
With all the stability/traction stuff turned on, I can actually get power oversteer easier in the Acura SH-AWD 6MT than in could with the BMW. With the DSC system off, the one spinning wheel of the BMW could get the back end to come around.
With all the stability/traction stuff turned on, I can actually get power oversteer easier in the Acura SH-AWD 6MT than in could with the BMW. With the DSC system off, the one spinning wheel of the BMW could get the back end to come around.
In the two following video, the 335xi was able to launch without drama and that's with power upgrades.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDUc710kY3I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fuTt...eature=related
04-16-2011, 07:10 PM
#127
Drifting
Thread Starter
This sounds right.
BTW, I've also heard from a friend who owns a '11 M3 (who actually was the previous owner of my '08 M3) and BMW salesmen that the '11 BMW with Individual Sound has changed a bit from the '08-'10 and there have been lots of complaints about it. Something to do with the radio quality but not sure.
BTW, I've also heard from a friend who owns a '11 M3 (who actually was the previous owner of my '08 M3) and BMW salesmen that the '11 BMW with Individual Sound has changed a bit from the '08-'10 and there have been lots of complaints about it. Something to do with the radio quality but not sure.
I also want to thank everyone for providing a rational and informative discussion. I did more research on the N55 engine and I believe that I underestimate the extend of the problem.
The exterior style of the TL grew on me a lot in the last few days. I can probably live without the heated steering wheel, better steering feel and the adaptive headlight. Heated steering wheel is nice to have in Canada though.
04-16-2011, 07:18 PM
#128
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Thanks. I will look into that.
I also want to thank everyone for providing a rational and informative discussion. I did more research on the N55 engine and I believe that I underestimate the extend of the problem.
The exterior style of the TL grew on me a lot in the last few days. I can probably live without the heated steering wheel, better steering feel and the adaptive headlight. Heated steering wheel is nice to have in Canada though.
I also want to thank everyone for providing a rational and informative discussion. I did more research on the N55 engine and I believe that I underestimate the extend of the problem.
The exterior style of the TL grew on me a lot in the last few days. I can probably live without the heated steering wheel, better steering feel and the adaptive headlight. Heated steering wheel is nice to have in Canada though.
Keep in mind too although you're paying a premium for the '12 TL now it is still a 2012 next year and is what Acura will still be selling with the TL which may benefit you if you do sell it. Good luck doing that without a big loss on the out-going E90 with the F30 here next spring.
Anyways, pick one and move on....you're not marrying the damn thing!
04-17-2011, 08:08 PM
#129
I am not sure what you mean by this. Are you talking about a situation where you are got stuck in traffic by cars turning left and you want to make a quick lane change to the right lane with fast moving traffic?
In the two following video, the 335xi was able to launch without drama and that's with power upgrades.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDUc710kY3I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fuTt...eature=related
In the two following video, the 335xi was able to launch without drama and that's with power upgrades.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDUc710kY3I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fuTt...eature=related
04-17-2011, 10:13 PM
#130
Yeah, I miss this on our Acura's!!
Keep in mind too although you're paying a premium for the '12 TL now it is still a 2012 next year and is what Acura will still be selling with the TL which may benefit you if you do sell it. Good luck doing that without a big loss on the out-going E90 with the F30 here next spring.
Anyways, pick one and move on....you're not marrying the damn thing!
Keep in mind too although you're paying a premium for the '12 TL now it is still a 2012 next year and is what Acura will still be selling with the TL which may benefit you if you do sell it. Good luck doing that without a big loss on the out-going E90 with the F30 here next spring.
Anyways, pick one and move on....you're not marrying the damn thing!
04-18-2011, 01:07 AM
#131
Drifting
Thread Starter
I'm talking about a scenario where you are making a right or left turn onto a busy, relatively high speed limit street. Even more frustrating is when it's a cool, damp morning. A 3 series X might do better than the rwd I had. I also noticed both videos have the DSC light on. I thought BMW was stupid to require you to hit the DSC button for better acceleration performance; and, then, when it's on you can't run the cruise control - I real PITA for the commute with mixed city/hwy driving.
04-18-2011, 01:20 AM
#132
Drifting
Thread Starter
Here is a quick update. I got a call from my Acura sales rep. Even he agrees that the sales manager was kinda rude. The General Manager agrees to give me a slightly better deal but not by much.
Believe it or not, I am really not a badge snob. I just like power and the 335xi without a doubt has the edge in that department. If I can get the TL for $8000 less than the Bimmer, that is $50,000 tax in OTD, then it will be the TL for me.
Believe it or not, I am really not a badge snob. I just like power and the 335xi without a doubt has the edge in that department. If I can get the TL for $8000 less than the Bimmer, that is $50,000 tax in OTD, then it will be the TL for me.
04-18-2011, 04:47 AM
#133
Here is a quick update. I got a call from my Acura sales rep. Even he agrees that the sales manager was kinda rude. The General Manager agrees to give me a slightly better deal but not by much.
Believe it or not, I am really not a badge snob. I just like power and the 335xi without a doubt has the edge in that department. If I can get the TL for $8000 less than the Bimmer, that is $50,000 tax in OTD, then it will be the TL for me.
Believe it or not, I am really not a badge snob. I just like power and the 335xi without a doubt has the edge in that department. If I can get the TL for $8000 less than the Bimmer, that is $50,000 tax in OTD, then it will be the TL for me.
04-18-2011, 05:20 AM
#134
SL1200MK4 If you have any questions feel free to PM me. There's loads of information in this thread that isn't true. To be fair, the TL is to the 5 series. Comparing the 3 to a TL is like comparing a whale and dolphin.
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fryrice (08-22-2012)
04-19-2011, 09:06 PM
#135
That said, if you like the BMW better than it is worth every penny more.
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