BMW 335xi vs 2012 TL, Epic Fail Acura?
04-14-2011, 03:08 PM
#41
Sounds like the BMW is your car of choice 
However, if it was my money, I would take the less expensive, more reliable, roomier, more technologically advanced, better performing, more fuel efficient, quieter, and more luxurious Acura TL.
I usually don't like to pay more for less, and for me, the BMW falls under that category, unless the only thing I was looking for was prestige.
However, if it was my money, I would take the less expensive, more reliable, roomier, more technologically advanced, better performing, more fuel efficient, quieter, and more luxurious Acura TL.
I usually don't like to pay more for less, and for me, the BMW falls under that category, unless the only thing I was looking for was prestige.
If i don't like someting i dont sit there and compare it to something else price wise and all that BS i say i dont like it ...who cares what the cost is ........i am in the business of buying exactly what i like ........and want .........
the 3 series BMW is a nice car ....great if a name is all you yern for......the car has no room ......and is no where near as reliable as a TL ......
Your mind is set on a BMW "GET ONE" that's my
....no hostility intended ........
04-14-2011, 04:22 PM
#42
I'm Craig
iTrader: (2)
And your point in posting this thread in a forum full of current 4G TL (and Acura) owners was...? Were you looking for something?
Your opening statement of "For just $100 more a month, would you not rather drive the BMW?" A) makes it sound like you're more concerned with image and B) doesn't account for the raping your rear end will take once the gimmicky free-maintenance is up.
People seem to get their panties wet with the German engineering.
Your opening statement of "For just $100 more a month, would you not rather drive the BMW?" A) makes it sound like you're more concerned with image and B) doesn't account for the raping your rear end will take once the gimmicky free-maintenance is up.
People seem to get their panties wet with the German engineering.
04-14-2011, 04:51 PM
#45
Drifting
Thread Starter
And your point in posting this thread in a forum full of current 4G TL (and Acura) owners was...? Were you looking for something?
Your opening statement of "For just $100 more a month, would you not rather drive the BMW?" A) makes it sound like you're more concerned with image and B) doesn't account for the raping your rear end will take once the gimmicky free-maintenance is up.
People seem to get their panties wet with the German engineering.
Your opening statement of "For just $100 more a month, would you not rather drive the BMW?" A) makes it sound like you're more concerned with image and B) doesn't account for the raping your rear end will take once the gimmicky free-maintenance is up.
People seem to get their panties wet with the German engineering.
This rear end raping is based on your personal experience or do we have some objective statistics available showing that BMW cost more to service and maintain after 4 years? It most likley will cost more, but how much more? Is it really that bad? Who knows what could happen to the TL after 4 years. I know the transmission failed on my TL.
After 4 years, you can trade in the car or you go to an independent mechanic.
04-14-2011, 04:51 PM
#46
BMWs dont excite me, unless you are talking about an M, and the 3 series is hyper generic at this point. They all blend in to the background of every parking lot i've ever rolled into.
Say what you want about the TL's styling, but its still a fucking head turner. No TL goes unnoticed by me
disclaimer: dont own a TL; shopped beamer; died of boredom
Say what you want about the TL's styling, but its still a fucking head turner. No TL goes unnoticed by me
disclaimer: dont own a TL; shopped beamer; died of boredom
04-14-2011, 04:54 PM
#47
Honda Fanboy
Can't say that happens everyday but often enough that I will want a usable rear middle seat. Even just for short trips to restaurants.
Well then you should probably ask yourself if you care more about the one person who sits in the middle (Acura), or the two people people who will be sitting in the ends with their leg circulation cut off (BMW).
You know what, I have never really tried the TL system or the 16 speaker BMW one. So, I said "on paper". Thankfully the way I optioned the car, the Bimmer will not have iDrive.
Well it has been overwhelmingly been shown that the TL's system is the best. Period.
No iDrive? So the BMW you are looking at isn't as optioned out as the TL... another factor of the not as expensive price on the BMW.
I did try the navigation on the TL and the user interface sucked period.
Again, the TL has been said to have one of the best navi systems in the industry. If you thought the TL navi sucked, then other navis will be just painful.
The BMW is running on run-flats. Still the TL is a great running car. I am impressed.
Being run-flat or not will not affect the grip of the tire. It does add weight but in this case the BMW is lighter overall.
Please show me where you get your data from. I have the sale brochures right next to me as I am typing this.
TL 11.9/8 (L/100Km)
335xi 12.2/7.9 (L/100Km)
www.bmwusa.com
www.acura.com
Stock to stock my money is on the BMW every time until that HPFP fails. With a tune, the 335 will most likely walk on the TL.
So would mine, but only if the drivers were perfectly equal. Other then that, it's a drivers race.
Again BMW did have run flat tires
Like I said, being run-flats doesn't affect the grip of the tire.
In the spec chart pdf they did.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/var/ezfl...ff5f424d86.pdf
Thanks for finding this for me. However, the TL used was pre mid-model change. The 2012 model is 3 db quieter making it a 73 if using R&T numbers which makes it quieter than the 335.
Since when does TL have real aluminum. The 2011 and 2012 that I saw both had aluminum looking plastic trims. Personally I would opt for the brush aluminum trim with the Bimmer.
The metal trim in the TL has always been real. It is a metal vapor that is deposited onto a plastic. It is like gold-plated metal (gold on the outside but something else on the inside). This method weighs less and it also doesn't get dented as easily as just the regular thin metal strips normally used.
There are better deals to be had on both cars. BMW Canada is more aggressive at the moment that's for sure. Just because the TL is "2012" that just came out doesn't mean anything. It is just marketing.
I mentioned in an earlier post that the BMW 335xi is equipped with executive package and sports seat. There are a few things that it comes with the TL doesn't have, namely 16 Speaker 825watt sound system, Bi-Xenon Adaptive Headlight, Heated Steering Wheel, 60:40 Split Folding Rear Seat and real aluminum/wood trims.
There are also a lot more things that the TL comes with that the BMW you equipped doesn't have. It all just depends on what you are looking for.
I might be getting a good deal on the TL thanks to bigfoot1523. Looks I might be in a TL after all. Awesome forum.
Well then you should probably ask yourself if you care more about the one person who sits in the middle (Acura), or the two people people who will be sitting in the ends with their leg circulation cut off (BMW).
You know what, I have never really tried the TL system or the 16 speaker BMW one. So, I said "on paper". Thankfully the way I optioned the car, the Bimmer will not have iDrive.
Well it has been overwhelmingly been shown that the TL's system is the best. Period.
No iDrive? So the BMW you are looking at isn't as optioned out as the TL... another factor of the not as expensive price on the BMW.
I did try the navigation on the TL and the user interface sucked period.
Again, the TL has been said to have one of the best navi systems in the industry. If you thought the TL navi sucked, then other navis will be just painful.
The BMW is running on run-flats. Still the TL is a great running car. I am impressed.
Being run-flat or not will not affect the grip of the tire. It does add weight but in this case the BMW is lighter overall.
Please show me where you get your data from. I have the sale brochures right next to me as I am typing this.
TL 11.9/8 (L/100Km)
335xi 12.2/7.9 (L/100Km)
www.bmwusa.com
www.acura.com
Stock to stock my money is on the BMW every time until that HPFP fails. With a tune, the 335 will most likely walk on the TL.
So would mine, but only if the drivers were perfectly equal. Other then that, it's a drivers race.
Again BMW did have run flat tires
Like I said, being run-flats doesn't affect the grip of the tire.
In the spec chart pdf they did.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/var/ezfl...ff5f424d86.pdf
Thanks for finding this for me. However, the TL used was pre mid-model change. The 2012 model is 3 db quieter making it a 73 if using R&T numbers which makes it quieter than the 335.
Since when does TL have real aluminum. The 2011 and 2012 that I saw both had aluminum looking plastic trims. Personally I would opt for the brush aluminum trim with the Bimmer.
The metal trim in the TL has always been real. It is a metal vapor that is deposited onto a plastic. It is like gold-plated metal (gold on the outside but something else on the inside). This method weighs less and it also doesn't get dented as easily as just the regular thin metal strips normally used.
There are better deals to be had on both cars. BMW Canada is more aggressive at the moment that's for sure. Just because the TL is "2012" that just came out doesn't mean anything. It is just marketing.
I mentioned in an earlier post that the BMW 335xi is equipped with executive package and sports seat. There are a few things that it comes with the TL doesn't have, namely 16 Speaker 825watt sound system, Bi-Xenon Adaptive Headlight, Heated Steering Wheel, 60:40 Split Folding Rear Seat and real aluminum/wood trims.
There are also a lot more things that the TL comes with that the BMW you equipped doesn't have. It all just depends on what you are looking for.
I might be getting a good deal on the TL thanks to bigfoot1523. Looks I might be in a TL after all. Awesome forum.
04-14-2011, 04:57 PM
#48
BMWs dont excite me, unless you are talking about an M, and the 3 series is hyper generic at this point. They all blend in to the background of every parking lot i've ever rolled into.
Say what you want about the TL's styling, but its still a fucking head turner. No TL goes unnoticed by me
disclaimer: dont own a TL; shopped beamer; died of boredom
Say what you want about the TL's styling, but its still a fucking head turner. No TL goes unnoticed by me
disclaimer: dont own a TL; shopped beamer; died of boredom
04-14-2011, 05:13 PM
#49
US Navy Seabees
We just sold our 545i last month and bought an Acura. Wait until your FREE maintenance runs out, the battery dies and BMW wants to $495 for a new one. I, being thrifty, and not your typical "just do it" BMW owner, skipped this and bought a battery myself, which BMW then informed me needs to be "registered" to the car. Cost for this, $300.
The ticky-tack costs of owning a BMW will keep me away for a while if not for life.
The ticky-tack costs of owning a BMW will keep me away for a while if not for life.
04-14-2011, 06:00 PM
#52
Honda Fanboy
04-14-2011, 06:19 PM
#53
Instructor
This thread is hysterical.....comparing the TL to a BMW and the BMW getting a fair shake? Impossible! That would be like anyone here joining Bimmerfest and attempting to compare the TL to a BMW. You would be laughed right off the board.
I'm not sure why the TL is even compared to the 3 being the TL is the same size as the 5. These damn cars keep growing!
I'm not sure why the TL is even compared to the 3 being the TL is the same size as the 5. These damn cars keep growing!
04-14-2011, 06:24 PM
#54
listen i like BM's just as much as the next person ...but i literally know 2 people that have had no issues what so ever from thier BMW..2 everybody else always has some type of issue and when it is in the shop always expensive.......O.D expensive to get repaired......not to mention two people i know that have beamers went out and purchased a second car ......and guess what it was? drum roll please.........AN ACURA specifically a TL.....as a matter of fact a friend of mines who owned a BM and his father owned a BM traded his BM in for a NISSAN MAXIMA......SO........
but if its any consolation i am looking at the 6 series ....
but if its any consolation i am looking at the 6 series ....
Last edited by TRIUMPHT; 04-14-2011 at 06:30 PM.
04-14-2011, 06:37 PM
#56
Honda Fanboy
This thread is hysterical.....comparing the TL to a BMW and the BMW getting a fair shake? Impossible! That would be like anyone here joining Bimmerfest and attempting to compare the TL to a BMW. You would be laughed right off the board.
I'm not sure why the TL is even compared to the 3 being the TL is the same size as the 5. These damn cars keep growing!
I'm not sure why the TL is even compared to the 3 being the TL is the same size as the 5. These damn cars keep growing!
04-14-2011, 06:39 PM
#57
Instructor
listen i like BM's just as much as the next person ...but i literally know 2 people that have had no issues what so ever from thier BMW..2 everybody else always has some type of issue and when it is in the shop always expensive.......O.D expensive to get repaired......not to mention two people i know that have beamers went out and purchased a second car ......and guess what it was? drum roll please.........AN ACURA specifically a TL.....as a matter of fact a friend of mines who owned a BM and his father owned a BM traded his BM in for a NISSAN MAXIMA......SO........
but if its any consolation i am looking at the 6 series ....
but if its any consolation i am looking at the 6 series ....
04-14-2011, 06:48 PM
#59
Instructor
04-14-2011, 06:55 PM
#60
Honda Fanboy
04-14-2011, 07:15 PM
#61
04-14-2011, 07:42 PM
#62
Drifting
Thread Starter
Guys, I am not on a mission to bash the TL here. After all it is one of the only two cars on my shopping list. The point of starting this thread is to provide some feedback to Acura.
The TL drives great and performs exceptionally well in crash tests. But the exterior and interior design leaves a lot to be desired. Just imagine if the 4th gen TL looked better inside out. How many more TL are going to be on the road today.
If Honda cares to listen, please fix the rear middle seat headroom. While that will have to wait until the 5th gen TL, power to match VQ engine would be nice in the mean time.
For those that disagree with me on the navigation interface. Do you think you can type in an address faster with touch screen or the rotate/tilt/click control?
The TL drives great and performs exceptionally well in crash tests. But the exterior and interior design leaves a lot to be desired. Just imagine if the 4th gen TL looked better inside out. How many more TL are going to be on the road today.
If Honda cares to listen, please fix the rear middle seat headroom. While that will have to wait until the 5th gen TL, power to match VQ engine would be nice in the mean time.
For those that disagree with me on the navigation interface. Do you think you can type in an address faster with touch screen or the rotate/tilt/click control?
04-14-2011, 08:47 PM
#63
Advanced
I bought my TL last November at Erin Mills Acura. The sales person was very professional and never rushed me to buy. He was only answering my questions. If you would like I can let you know his name and I'm sure he'll give you a good deal like he did for me.
As for owning the BMW - I just don't think so. I like my spacious TL better. It doesn't have the image BMW has, but I don't care about that.
As for owning the BMW - I just don't think so. I like my spacious TL better. It doesn't have the image BMW has, but I don't care about that.
Last edited by rafcio53; 04-14-2011 at 08:49 PM.
04-14-2011, 09:00 PM
#64
Definitely 335. HPFP warrantied to 10 years if you're worried about that. Better handling, better speed, turbo is nuts, "free" maintenance is well worth it, better engineering..I could go on but I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
04-14-2011, 09:03 PM
#65
Guys, I am not on a mission to bash the TL here. After all it is one of the only two cars on my shopping list. The point of starting this thread is to provide some feedback to Acura.
The TL drives great and performs exceptionally well in crash tests. But the exterior and interior design leaves a lot to be desired. Just imagine if the 4th gen TL looked better inside out. How many more TL are going to be on the road today.
If Honda cares to listen, please fix the rear middle seat headroom. While that will have to wait until the 5th gen TL, power to match VQ engine would be nice in the mean time.
For those that disagree with me on the navigation interface. Do you think you can type in an address faster with touch screen or the rotate/tilt/click control?
The TL drives great and performs exceptionally well in crash tests. But the exterior and interior design leaves a lot to be desired. Just imagine if the 4th gen TL looked better inside out. How many more TL are going to be on the road today.
If Honda cares to listen, please fix the rear middle seat headroom. While that will have to wait until the 5th gen TL, power to match VQ engine would be nice in the mean time.
For those that disagree with me on the navigation interface. Do you think you can type in an address faster with touch screen or the rotate/tilt/click control?
04-14-2011, 09:07 PM
#66
Drifting
Thread Starter
You are correct, the 4G no longer have touch screen. I actually think that touch screen will be the superior solution, assuming that you don't alter the system setting when you are moving.
04-14-2011, 09:20 PM
#67
Drifting
Give voice commands a try. Works pretty well and you can do it on the fly without taking your eyes off of the road.
04-14-2011, 09:36 PM
#69
Drifting
Thread Starter
04-14-2011, 09:49 PM
#70
Suzuka Master
Epic fail Acura? Where the hell does that come from? Sounds to me like each car has their pluses and minuses in the comparo.
Let's all jump on the Bimmer forums and bash thier cars.. just to stir things up. Heck, it seems every other car in my area is a BMW, MB or Audi, so what am I doing not going with the cattle? Should I just run with the pack? Nope.
It's funny how the German cars don't seem to have the reliability rating of the Acura. It's one of the major things on my list of importance when car buying. The 0-60 times and top speed.
As for the lack of touch screen? I like the position of the screen on the 4G, the screen on the 12 is very nice and bright, easy to navigate and voice control does what I need. It's easier to talk than type, eyes on the road, hands upon the wheel... let it roll baby, roll.. all night long
Let's all jump on the Bimmer forums and bash thier cars.. just to stir things up. Heck, it seems every other car in my area is a BMW, MB or Audi, so what am I doing not going with the cattle? Should I just run with the pack? Nope.
It's funny how the German cars don't seem to have the reliability rating of the Acura. It's one of the major things on my list of importance when car buying. The 0-60 times and top speed.
As for the lack of touch screen? I like the position of the screen on the 4G, the screen on the 12 is very nice and bright, easy to navigate and voice control does what I need. It's easier to talk than type, eyes on the road, hands upon the wheel... let it roll baby, roll.. all night long
Last edited by Stew4HD; 04-14-2011 at 09:52 PM.
04-14-2011, 10:41 PM
#71
10th Gear
Join Date: Mar 2011
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I bought a battery on my own. No way I was paying $500 for a battery! But... BMW's require the battery to be registered to the car. (Essentially, telling the car's electronics that the battery has been replaced) This can only be done by a BMW dealer. The dealership charges $300 to do this.
04-14-2011, 10:49 PM
#72
Drifting
I am not sure why I even bother to post here, because you have your own reasoning and you are going to make your own decision regardless of what the TL owners here have to say.
All I want to say is that, I did have the chance to get a BMW a couple of weeks ago. I went for the TL SH-AWD Elite and I could not be happier. I love how it rides, and I love the wonderful stereo system which is far superior to that stereo in the BMW. I absolutely like the interior design of the TL, and I find the 3 series interior design to be very dated and cold. Oh, and I really enjoy the unique look of the 2012 TL, while there are tons of 3 series out there.
Get what makes you happy. There is no need to justify anything. If you like a Yugo or Skoda, get one. Who cares? If you want to give Acura feedback, write to their corporate office.
All I want to say is that, I did have the chance to get a BMW a couple of weeks ago. I went for the TL SH-AWD Elite and I could not be happier. I love how it rides, and I love the wonderful stereo system which is far superior to that stereo in the BMW. I absolutely like the interior design of the TL, and I find the 3 series interior design to be very dated and cold. Oh, and I really enjoy the unique look of the 2012 TL, while there are tons of 3 series out there.
Get what makes you happy. There is no need to justify anything. If you like a Yugo or Skoda, get one. Who cares? If you want to give Acura feedback, write to their corporate office.
Last edited by ostrich; 04-14-2011 at 10:52 PM.
04-14-2011, 11:26 PM
#74
Safety Car
I only read the first 2/3 of your post, OP. In my honest opinion, a car is only as good as the dealership that services it. If you find that the manager and sales rep weren't up to par at your local Acura dealer (especially after several years of business), go with BMW. It doesn't hurt to venture out...if it goes wrong with BMW, take as a lesson and make your way back to Acura. Note: BMW isn't a car to own, more like lease or rent until the warranty gives way. It's your choice 
100 bones per month isn't terrible. Good luck with which ever car you buy!
100 bones per month isn't terrible. Good luck with which ever car you buy!
04-15-2011, 07:07 AM
#75
Walk the walk
Agree, if you have a BMW short term is the way to go. I would still guess that buying and selling would still be less costly by a few grand. I currently have a 740 and learned the pros and cons of BMW. I happy with "Smart" versus "Ultimate"
04-15-2011, 07:40 AM
#76
Suzuka Master
I just went through this last year. I have owned 6 different TLs and the last was my 09 AWD. I loved the ride, the electronics, but never did warm up to the styling. I then went hunting for a new ride, looks at BMW 328 then 335, A4, Volvo S60, G37 all whic I thought were better styled cars and eventually wound up in a M37S which IMO is a real sexy machine. BUT I have learned looks are not everything. The M37S goes for about $14K more than my AWD TL did and while I love the interior and styling, and the car drives nicely (not same ride as AWD TL). And Infiniti builds a fairly reliable car, but what I have learned is that Acrua's strenghts are in reliability, resale and build quality. The M37S feels tinny, has a lot of body flex and the electronics are so aweful it is not even funny. The ELS in the Acura is as good as and actually better anything else I heard in the cars I cross shopped. Acura's BT, Navi and voice commands are light years ahead of the competition. I'm glad Acura is heaed in the right direction with styling, but honestly as soon as I can I am back in an Acura. Whie extreme I woudl take a TSX Tech over my my M37S at this point. If youjust car about looks at ride sure there are choices, but if you want a well built reliable car that rides and is very engaging then Acura baby all the way.
04-15-2011, 08:12 AM
#77
...........
04-15-2011, 09:37 AM
#78
Drifting
Thread Starter
that is where i say you made your decision......if you think the car is ugly then look no furthur...................why drive in something you can't stand to look at?......................regardless of how much it costs or how it performs.........if you think it's ugly ...on to the next car ...........
...........I want 6spd, 300hp, and AWD, therefore my options are extremely limited.
I think the TL's 6spd gearbox, engine and awd drivetrain is just as good as the 335xi. The 335 might have more power, but far less reliable. The HPFP issue is just as bad as the 2gen TL transmission and it can be potentially dangerous. So, I would rather avoid that.
It just so happens that BMW is very aggressive with its pricing at the moment when Acura is not. The TL comes with some features that I don't value such as the navigation system and voice command while lacking some features on the Bimmer that I do value such as Bi-Xenon adaptive headlight and heated steering wheel, folding rear seats.
At the moment if I pay cash, the TL cost about 53.5K and the 335xi 58.5K. The difference is just less under $5000. BMW have "pre-paid" service for 4 years. Acura has slightly longer powertrain warranty 1 year/20,000km more.
As much problems people have had with the N54/N55 engine. The power from a Dinan tuned 335 is hard to forget. Decisions, decisions, decisions.
04-15-2011, 11:04 AM
#79
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The 2012 redesign does look better than the 09-11 design.
I want 6spd, 300hp, and AWD, therefore my options are extremely limited.
I think the TL's 6spd gearbox, engine and awd drivetrain is just as good as the 335xi. The 335 might have more power, but far less reliable. The HPFP issue is just as bad as the 2gen TL transmission and it can be potentially dangerous. So, I would rather avoid that.
It just so happens that BMW is very aggressive with its pricing at the moment when Acura is not. The TL comes with some features that I don't value such as the navigation system and voice command while lacking some features on the Bimmer that I do value such as Bi-Xenon adaptive headlight and heated steering wheel, folding rear seats.
At the moment if I pay cash, the TL cost about 53.5K and the 335xi 58.5K. The difference is just less under $5000. BMW have "pre-paid" service for 4 years. Acura has slightly longer powertrain warranty 1 year/20,000km more.
As much problems people have had with the N54/N55 engine. The power from a Dinan tuned 335 is hard to forget. Decisions, decisions, decisions.
I want 6spd, 300hp, and AWD, therefore my options are extremely limited.
I think the TL's 6spd gearbox, engine and awd drivetrain is just as good as the 335xi. The 335 might have more power, but far less reliable. The HPFP issue is just as bad as the 2gen TL transmission and it can be potentially dangerous. So, I would rather avoid that.
It just so happens that BMW is very aggressive with its pricing at the moment when Acura is not. The TL comes with some features that I don't value such as the navigation system and voice command while lacking some features on the Bimmer that I do value such as Bi-Xenon adaptive headlight and heated steering wheel, folding rear seats.
At the moment if I pay cash, the TL cost about 53.5K and the 335xi 58.5K. The difference is just less under $5000. BMW have "pre-paid" service for 4 years. Acura has slightly longer powertrain warranty 1 year/20,000km more.
As much problems people have had with the N54/N55 engine. The power from a Dinan tuned 335 is hard to forget. Decisions, decisions, decisions.
OP, other than the M models in the 3 series which usually is the only BMW that makes Consumer Reports most reliable list year after year (how ironic it's the high strung BMW), I wouldn't touch a E90/92 series with that N54 or N55 engine due to the infamous HPFP problems. The 335D(diesal) is the car to have with all that monstous 425lbs of TQ but it's just too bad it doesn't come in AWD.
By the way, I paid $39,500 plus 5% sales tax for my AWD TL minus the nav package which I don't care for anyways. A comparably equipped 3 series/5 series was 15/25K more!!
The smart money on a BMW is a high residual lease but owning one is risky and especially now with the new model out shortly. Having said that, there is no freakn way I would pay anything more than $45K for a TL in Canada.
04-15-2011, 11:40 AM
#80
Drifting
That in itself would, for me, rule out the BMW and no measure of features or free maintenance would change that. Now I'm not saying you should necessarily buy the TL, but I certainly wouldn't be looking at buying the BMW.