SL1200MK4

Cliff: For just $100 more a month, would you not rather drive the BMW?

First of all, this is not a troll post. I am just sharing my shopping experience here in the Canada. Hopefully Acura will listen somehow and improve its competitiveness in this market.

Basically it is time for a new car for me. It must have a manual transmission, AWD, 300+hp, keyless start/go and a good crash safety rating. That quickly narrow things down to the TL and 335xi. I did briefly considered the S4 and Evo X, but I think they are just over priced in Canada.

The TL needs no introduction here. If you want the 6 speed manual, the only decision that you have to make is to pick the exterior color. I would not have considered the TL before the rhinoplastic make over. It still doesn't look great but it is at least decent. By the way Bellanova White is just stunning in person, especially on a sunny day. But there is only so much that the color can do for this car.

When I walked into the BMW dealer, I thought they will take me to the cleaner and rip me apart with their options, extra fees and attitude. But to my surprise, the pricing was very competitive and the sales rep at the BMW dealer was extremely professional. The Acura sales rep was okay, but the sales manager in comparison was down right rude.

Without me asking, the BMW sales takes $2600 (4.5%) off the MSRP. If you go with the BMW balloon financing at 1.9% there is an additional $2600 incentive from BMW. With zero money down, the monthly payment is $873 tax-in for 48 months with a final balloon payment of $22720 tax-in. Without any effort I got that down to $850 per month with the same final balloon payment.

Acura Canada on the other hand offers no incentive on the 2012 TL and the lease rate for 48 month is at 4.9%. I asked for 4.5% off MSRP for the TL and the sales manager was rude and told me that “You don't deserve that discount because you have never bought a car from us before. You had been here for service but that doesn't count”. I guess seven years of business is worth nothing to them. The BMW sales rep on the other hand is already thinking about selling me another car 3-4 years down the road mentioning that the F30 3-series would be a mature product then, the xDrive will have torque vectoring and the F30 M3 will also be introduced. The difference is night and day.

Dealership experience aside, here are the numbers.

Acura TL 6spd (48 Month Lease)
Monthly $751
Buyout $25487

Total: $61535 if purchase after 4 years

BMW 335xi (48 Month Balloon Financing)
Monhly $850
Balloon $22720

Total: $63520 after 4 years

For just $100 more a month, would you not drive the BMW? For just $2000 more over the period of 4 years, would you rather not own a BMW? Not to mention that the free scheduled maintenance from BMW more or the less makes up for the price difference.

I know this might sound a little harsh, but in a way the 4th Gen TL is a failed product. If you look at the Pontiac Aztek inspired exterior, StarTrek inspired interior, the awkward navi interface, and not to mention the totally useless rear center seat. All of this backed by the dropped sales figure. I wonder how many people at Acura got fired over this. Probably not enough, because some went on to design the ZDX. Well, the rear door of the ZDX at least.

At the end of the day, the TL no longer represents a good value, that title surprisingly goes to BMW. For around 675 a month tax-in, I can see myself driving the TL. Despite all its flaws, Honda know how to make a good manual transmission. The TL has a good motor coupled to a great AWD system. It's a shame that other aspects of the design, pricing and dealership experience cannot keep up with their good engineering work.

By the way, I could also pay cash but opens up a whole new possibility of importing from the US. In that case, the Evo X makes a lot more sense and will be my No.1 choice.

VTEC Racer

Sounds like the BMW is your car of choice

However, if it was my money, I would take the less expensive, more reliable, roomier, more technologically advanced, better performing, more fuel efficient, quieter, and more luxurious Acura TL.

I usually don't like to pay more for less, and for me, the BMW falls under that category, unless the only thing I was looking for was prestige.

IrishTR

If your paying 61.5K for a TL you deserve to be took to the cleaners by any dealer...

38K out the door with 0.9% financing was what I got my 2010 TL SH-AWD 6spd manual w/HPT when I bought it in June 2010... Dont have the numbers infront of me but its no where near that ridiculous amount after 4years!

SL1200MK4

I am in Canada, the 4 year lease rate and 5 year finance rate are both 4.9% from Acura Canada. They are the ones smoking the funny stuff, not me!

Now, how the hell did you manage to get 38K out the door? Can you please PM me your sales rep? For that price, I would be happy to buy cash and import the car to Canada. Screw the warranty, I will take my chances.

SL1200MK4

Also forgot to mention that the HST sales tax is 13%, of which I included in these figures. Somebody gotta pay for that health care I suppose.

senile32nd

hell I payed 37414 for 2011 shawd with tech at 0.9.. sorry to rub it in... dealer was acura of orange park in jacksonville FLorida

Slinks

if you're getting a bmw, you should lease instead of buying (atleast in the US, and if you don't drive a crazy amount of miles). bmw inflates the residual value making the leases priced more attractive. And I probably wouldn't want a 335 long term with its bad reliability ratings (but ok to have for a lease where everything is warranty covered). Also, you should consider waiting for the fall as the 3 is being redesigned.
You should also do a bit more shopping. Going to 1 acura dealer, and 1 bmw dealer, hoping they give you a discount out of 'niceness' isnt a good way to get the best deal.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

and

( I don't own either and don't have a dog in this argument)

NwTSXmt

Living in Canada is only one your problems...

SL1200MK4

Personally I rather be driving a TL paying $200 less a month than the Bimmer. That's what the TL should be about, solid engineering at value pricing.


VTEC Racer mentioned some really good points, I can only wish that they are true. I just want to set the record straight as to why Honda Canada is losing me as a customer and hopefully they can wake the @#$% up.

Less Expensive?
The 335xi isn't really more expensive with incentive and low interest rate financing as shown above.

Cash incentive is actually $3500 from BMW, plus the dealer incentive. I am looking at around $59,000 out the door. Assuming that I find a better deal on the Acura, say 4.5% off MSRP, it's still around $53,000 out the door. The difference is not that big and let's not forget the free scheduled maintenance from BMW. In the mean time, just the engine and rear diff oil changes along on the TL adds up over the years.

The 335xi that I am looking at is no striper either. While the TL has Torque Vectoring, Rear View Camera, Navigation, and 18 inch rims. The BMW 335xi has better weight distribution, 16 Speaker 825watt sound system, Bi-Xenon Adaptive Headlight, Heated Steering Wheel, 60:40 Split Folding Rear Seat and real aluminium/wood trim. If anything the BMW is slightly better equipped.

More Reliable
I agree with you on this one. Reading the 335 High Pressure Fuel Pump problems scares me a bit. But at the same time my transmission had failed on my 2Gen TL. So, Acura does not have a bullet proof image either.

Roomier
Yes and no. The TL wins hand down with the rear knee/leg room. My leggy friends will appreciate that for sure. For a car that's one size and half larger than the 3 series, it better be roomier.

Now if you need to seat 5 adults taller than 5'2”, it will be tight in the BMW but nearly impossible in the TL. Seriously what the *&^% were they thinking when they designed the rear center seat. This is a family sedan not a four seater four door coupe.

More Technologically Advanced
The BMW has active headlight and a better sound system on paper. The navi system in the TL is awkward and cumbersome to use. I rather use my TomTom or smartphone for that purpose.

SH-AWD is one of the best in the world. But don't forget that the BMW is rear wheel drive based and does has a better weight distribution.

Better performing, More fuel efficient
TL posted some good numbers in handling and braking, but that's with Pilot Sport 2 performance summer tires. BMW can post similar number with run flat tires. (See Road and Track comparison test result, though they used a RWD 335i instead the xi in that test)

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...door-firepower

Fuel economy is almost exactly the same for the manual AWD variant of the two cars

Acceleration wise, there is simply no contest. The TL can't touch the Bimmer stock to stock. Even with a supercharger kit on the TL hypothetically making 390hp, the 335xi can most likely match that performance with a simple tune from Dinan while keeping the warranty. Many people have done exactly that with the 335xi, the AWD system seems to be holding up. Can TL's SH-AWD can handle 30% more power?

Quieter
According to the Road and Track test, Bimmer is slightly quieter.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...door-firepower

More Luxurious
TL is in fact very luxurious inside but so is the BMW. Plus the real aluminum/wood trims on the Bimmer gets a lot of extra points from me.

Pay more for Less
I don't want to pay more for less, that's why I got my TL in the first place. In this case though, where is the value? I just don't see it.


Now, things look quite different down in the states. Maybe I should really consider import one in myself. Perhaps attend the national meet and drive all the way back?

scfa

Why wait 3-4 years for torque vectoring, the TL has it NOW.

Have you researched reliability and resale on the bimmer? Enjoy the smell of that leather as your car sits on a dealers lift in the shop while we enjoy our TL's.

Sapere

I live in Canada and got a 4 yrs lease on a SHAWD for 0.65% at Burrard Acura with a monthly payment of less than 600 with taxes and everything and only 3000 down. And I personally believe 335 is overpriced, but hey thats just me.

Hope that helps.

the_razor

is it worth importing from the US with all the fees and the mileage I will put on to drive back home?

bigfoot1523

Same city, same predicament.

Like you, I was looking at the 335xi (Downtown BMW and Mississauga BMW), 370z and Acura TL. And it came down to pricing for me. I did go with the 4 year lease option for the '12 6MT TL. I only did so because the overall cost of lending plus average annual maintenance fees (based on historical data and my personal experience with TLs) comes out cheaper than BMW's overall cost of lending with the balloon finance and their no charge maintenance package.

Also, I'm 6'3" and I've taken a gang of guys taller than 5'10" in my car (3 of the taller ones were in the back), and they had no problem with the centre seat. It does look awkward and less roomy at first sight, but put people there and you'll realize it's extremely roomy for a mid size sedan. In fact, one of them has a 335xi and he could never fit 3 tall guys in there.

Quite frankly, it depends on the dealership you go to. I chose my dealer based on the salesperson I interacted with, and getting a good feeling of how he/she handles a customer. And my car was the first 6MT in the GTA. Having said that, I got a great deal, and about 2.5k off the MSRP which comes out to nearly 4.5% and that too for a brand new vehicle. I'm paying 680 a month with 0 down and a trade in that evened out the lien owed on my previous car including the tax savings. Plus I got a few things thrown in, along with the tints at a drastically reduced rate (compared to other dealers, and independent tint dealers). One thing I didn't consider was a year lease with Acura. The lease rate on a 3 year term here is 2.9 and it's pretty close to the same monthly rate of a 4 year term (you might want to look into that).

If you want, I can PM you the dealer info and the Salesperson I dealt with. I'm sure you'll get the same deal that I got, if I put in a word. I'm guessing you dealt with Downtown Acura? If so, they suck and are a rude dealership.

Also, what the TL loses in acceleration compared to the 335xi, it more than makes up for it in handling. And the navi is just fine, and this coming from a guy who had a Kenwood Garmin Navi-DVD system in his previous car. Oh, and one more thing, you're WRONG when it comes to the stereo. The 335xi's stereo is nothing compared to the TL's. I know this for a fact after test driving and testing the stereo in each car with a variety of songs, from all genres, including podcasts (yeah, lame I know!). And it's just awesome compared to the 335xi.

Now, it sounds like you're more hooked on to the 335xi and you're looking for any reason to get it. It comes down to personal preference. But if you're looking at overall costs, and a lower monthly payment, with equal amount of fun and pleasure driving a car, go with the TL, and choose a better dealer (better yet, PM me) and you'll get what you want.

TL Cost of ownership (includes purchase option at the end of the lease term)- $57600 + 2000 (worst case estimate of maintenance over a 4 year span) = $59200

BMW Cost of ownership - $63520 (includes maintenance - also if I remember right, the maintenance at BMW includes just the regular check-ups like oil change, and not the wheel rotation and alignment and brake pad/fluid stuff)

Difference of $4k and change. I could invest that in some pretty neat stocks and get a better ROI. Unless you are floating in cash and throw some away for the sake of a brand name.

Like I said, PM me and I'd be glad to help you out, because I went through this whole process for nearly a month-6 weeks.

Sleepless_MIA

^ This. I got a similar deal about 2 months ago from my dealer in Georgia for my '11 TL.

Sounds like the prices up there in Canada are a bit on the ridiculous side, in which case, I'd go with the 335xi...

Pete2010

When it comes to the price - you can't compare the MMC to the 335xi that has been the same design for many years. Maybe compare the price on a 2011 to a 335xi, that would be more accurate (and show a larger gap in pricing trending to Acura). The 2012 just came out, people are not going to deal yet... give it 6 months than try again. Also, much of your comparison has to do with how you were treated at the dealership.

But at the end of the day, you need to get what's best for you...
But as for size of the car, I often fit 5 tall people (6') in my car, the center seat is funky... but whatever... Is it that much better in the 335?

Don't get me wrong, I love BMW's, but once I get into spending that much on a car, there are many other things i'd get instead (investing for one). My car is paid off, and I look forward to having it for 10+ years so I can get a fun summer car as well. The thing about BMW reliability is that you just don't know...

Acura2010

I'm about 1 hour west of Toronto, live in Kitchener. Bought my car at Fairview Acura. I also considered the BMW 335xi, and the pricing for the BMW was not even close to my TL. For the options i wanted, it would have cost over $800/month for the BMW on a lease. I got into my 2010 TL SH-AWD For $675/month. 2.9% for 48 mos. 24,000km/year. Taxes in. Buyout after 4 years is $20,500. Total cost of ownership if i buy it out would be around $55,400 including tax. I only put down $2500 at the time of purchase. Compare that with equally equipped BMW 335xi. here in Canada that car STARTS at an MSRP of $52,100. Now add a few options to get it to the level of the base SH-AWD like mine and your close to $58,000. The TL was a fantasic value. And honestly, i think BMW needs to revamp the interior. They have had the same interior dating back to the 90's.

Flipster23

iTrader: (15)

didnt even read the thread all I read was for 100 more would u rather drive a BMW and my answer is hell fuckin no!

jasonwdp10

Ooo sorry buddy. I've owned both the SHAWD TL and the Base TL, and the middle seat is useless in both cars, especially the SHAWD model.

I'm only 5'9" and more leg than torso. When I sit up straight in the middle seat, my head hits the roof. If I slouch in order to not hit the roof, then I need to scoot forward and spread my knees apart and that removes a lot of room from the rear left and right passenger. It also makes my knees hit the front seats.

Heck even my 5'3" female co-worker had her head brushing on the top.

A lot of things about the TL are good, but rear seat room is NOT one of them, sorry.

TechnoCat

It does sound like the TL price is over-padded. There are other differences, as you've pointed out. My take, haven driven both quite a bit (and traded in a 2010 TL SH-AWD 6MT for an Audi S4 Prestige 6MT):

• The BMW is the better feeling car. If you like feeling the road while not being abused, it's the choice. The TL is fidgety, noisy and not nearly as composed, and yet has the FWD bias also.
• The TL is the sportier car. Seriously. It may look like a 5-series-sized Accord Sedan run through the Battlestar Galactica costume shop, but it drives a lot like the S2000 or the classic Mazda RX7. It feels faster than the 335. The 335 will probably wipe up the road with it in any test, but the TL SH-AWD's high-revving buzzy engine and the way the SH-AWD grab late in the game really makes it feel like a rollercoaster ride.
• The BMW is quieter. Things are padded that should be, and the engine will work fine at lower revs. (The TL doesn't really have a relaxed mode.)
• The BMW rear seat folds and the trunk floor is flat. The TL's trunk was bizarrely unusable for my purposes, due to the lack of folding rear seat and the oddly shaped trunk floor.
• The TL has a zillion buttons, the BMW has i-Drive. I hate them both. The BMW integrates more of the computers together, but this really is close to a matter of preference: Do you want to impress with simplicity or overwhelm with gadgetry?
• The BMW will impress people more because Acura isn't perceived the same way.
• The TL will be cheaper to run and won't need service as often. The BMW 3-series sedan gets 3 (of 5) JD Power circles, vs 4 for the Acura TL. (My S4 is also at 3.)

In the end, it's how important these things are.

jasonwdp10

Here's an exerpt from the recent consumerguide review (thanks TSX69!):
"A Bit Tight in the Back

This is a bit surprising since the current Honda Accord has one of the roomiest rear seats in the midsize-sedan biz. Not so on the TL. Headroom, knee clearance, and foot space are barely adequate, especially with the front seats pushed back. 6 footers may wish for more headroom too."

And that's not even talking about the middle seat!

bigfoot1523

I guess the way you sit makes all the difference? But it's roomier than the 335xi for sure, agree?

JM2010 SH-AWD

Don't think a 335x will "probably wipe up the road" with a TL AWD, at least not manual to manual.

In fact several print and on-line pubs have tested these very two cars on road courses - the TL laps faster than the 335, and according to some of the testers, feels better doing so. I'm not aware of a test showing the 335x lapping faster than a TL AWD.

The BMW is faster 0-60, but not by much. If you're interested in winning stoplight to stoplight street races (??) it's admittedly the better choice. If you're interested in buying the better-handling car of the two, it's the TL.

It does sound like you're getting poor treatment at the Acura dealer you visited, and that can make a big difference. Try other dealers if you can.

jasonwdp10

Yes! my friends 328i sedan felt as roomy as my civic! (which isn't that bad) It is a compact car after all, while the TL is based off of the giant honda accord. I wish they tried a bit harder to improve the rear seating spaces in the TL.

Btw when I initially went to look at cars, I looked into an accord sedan, and found the rear seating area to be HUGE.

DanO4GTL

We just sold our 545i last month and bought an Acura. Wait until your FREE maintenance runs out, the battery dies and BMW wants to $495 for a new one. I, being thrifty, and not your typical "just do it" BMW owner, skipped this and bought a battery myself, which BMW then informed me needs to be "registered" to the car. Cost for this, $300.

The ticky-tack costs of owning a BMW will keep me away for a while if not for life.

VTEC Racer

The BMW you are looking at is $100 more per month than the TL. Math wasn't always my best subject, but that to me means the BMW is more expensive. Further more, you are comparing a BMW that the dealer has discounted greatly to the TL which the Acura dealer hasn't been so generous with. Equally equipped, a 335xi will never be cheaper or the same price as a TL, even after discounts (unless BMW wants to lose money on the sale).

Comparing a problem you had on a 2nd gen TL to a 4th gen TL is a moot point. The 3rd gen TL had no problems with it's tranny so I don't expect the 4th gen to either. Further more, according to your post, you are looking at the manual, not the auto. The manual has been bulletproof since it debuted so. BMW has never been more reliable than Acura.

I've never sat in the middle seat of either car so I can't really give my opinion on this, but how often do you seat five people in any car?

Despite what is on paper, the ELS system in the TL has been voted as one of the best audio systems in any car. It's award winning and leaps and bounds more advanced than what BMW offers even with their upgraded system. The Acura navigation system has also been voted as the best by many reviewers. I don't recall anyone every saying anything positive about BMW's iDrive though. In fact, I remember it being absolutely hated by some magazines.

The 335 in the comparison was equipped with the M-Sport package. When equipped so, it comes with either the Bridgestone Potenza RE050A or Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 ZP, both of which are a maximum performance summer tire and are equal in performance to the TL's tires.

Fuel economy is not almost exactly the same for both cars. The TL gets better gas mileage. There is no other way to state this.

The BMW does have the TL in acceleration. But then again, the two cars are super close. BMW rates the 335xi as 0-60 in 5.3 seconds. Although I'm sure that number is conservative, the TL has been recorded as low as 0-60 in 5.2 and the 1/4 in 13.7. In the end, the result will be based on who the better driver is. Straight-line racing isn't my measure of "performance" though.

Additionally, the R&T article showed that the TL beat the 335 on the track and had better brake performance. As you mentioned, the BMW used was the RWD model, not the AWD model which is inferior in performance to the RWD model.

The article also mentioned that despite have 19 inch rims, the TL had the best ride. Having the best ride yet better handling at the same time? That's a win-win combo for me.

The link to the article you posted made no mention of sound level for either car.

TL has real aluminum but no wood. If performance was my objective, I wouldn't be getting would if I wanted to have a sporty appearance.

Again, you can't compare a BMW which has been discounted to a TL that hasn't been. Further, are both cars you are comparing equally equipped? What packages are on the TL and what options/packages are on the BMW?

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

my thoughts above

Aman

Sorry if I'm missing something, but how does $100 more per month come out to $2000 more over 4 years?

SL1200MK4

The monthly payment on the Acura is $750 vs the $850 on the BMW. However the final Balloon payment on the BMW is less than the Acura buyout if I decide to own keep the car after 4 years.

To be fair, I should be able to get a much better deal on the TL from a different dealer and will explore that option.

SL1200MK4

You think Acura is any better out of warranty? When my HID light bulb burned out, they wanted $100 + tax just to diagnose the problem. Over $200 for the light bulb, plus more on labor. That when I decided that F it. I am no longer going to the dealer for service.

I replaced the bulb on the other side. Got genuine Phillips on eBay and installed for less than $100.

SL1200MK4

Don't forget, the Bimmers are running on run flat tires.

Having said that the transmission, engine, and the AWD system on the TL is a beautiful piece of engineering. That compensates for a lot of its shortcomings.

SL1200MK4

PM sent.

Still don't know how you can squeeze someone in the middle rear seat. I am around 5'10". There is simply no way that I could sit straight up back there.

The TL will seat four big adults very comfortably though. More comfortably than the 335.

SL1200MK4

Yes and no. It depends on the car. You can ship the car to the border and pick it up instead of driving all the way. The TL is build in Ohio, because of that and NAFTA you don't have to pay 6.1% duty. Import fee is just a few hundred bucks and your time and effort.

Resale of the car can sometimes take a hit compared to a Canadian car but you saved big up front and the difference in resale value diminishes over time.

One key issue is how much the dealer will charge you for a safety recall letter. Some US dealer will supply one, some have an agreement with the US dealer and you will have to pay the Canadian dealer to get one.

Porsche charges $500 for that letter, the International warranty will still apply in Canada. Mercedes wants you to change the instrument cluster and charge you over thousands.

scfa

I'm not sure why you are still considering a 4th Gen TL after you stated its a failed product with a StarTrek inspired interior, awkward navi and a useless back seat with a ?

MD-DRIVER

You do realize you can go to any auto parts store and buy a battery for about $100 - you never want to buy a battery from the dealer, even if you drive a chevy

wakattack

I just came from a 2009 Bmw 535i Sport, I was luckily able to get out of it quick. It is a beautiful car and had tremendous feel that Acura just does not touch, same with the 335. But the reason I got rid of it was the high pressure fuel pump problem. BMW still has not solved this even with the new models. Many owners have there cars in the shop for a month out of the year with multiple fuel pump replacements. The one in my 535i was replaced 4 times. Often with fuel rail replacement as well. This is the same engine and same problem with the 335, the new F series has a slightly modified engine, but apparently the problem has still to be resolved with the fuel pump. They extended the warranty on the HPFP to 120k miles, but who wants to be stranded in crippled mode randomly, and have to have their car in the shop for a long time. Some don't have problems, but if you do get one, the best you can do is 1) Pray, 2)Only use gasoline with expensive detergents in it such as Mobil 1, Shell, etc. 3)If you can do not use any ethanol, get boat gasoline or drive to an area where it is available.

Also the 3 series is much smaller than the TL, especially in the trunk and back seat. The 5 series is a more comparable.

They are both nice cars, but if you have your heart set on a BMW, I would go with a different engine for now.

Edward'TLS

Unless you're planning to sell your car after 4 years, when the 4-year comprehensive warranty expires, it'll become typical Japanese top-notch reliability vs typical German not-so-good reliability, and everything comes out your own pocket.

But still, even under warranty, the frequent trips to dealerships even for free repairs are very tiring.

In general, genuine BMW parts cost a lot more than genuine Honda/Acura parts.

But from the way you put it, it seems that your mind is already set.

SL1200MK4

Agreed. The question comes down to how much is difference between the two. Is it justified, that's totally subjective.


Agreed, another why I am still taking a hard look at Acura.


Can't say that happens everyday but often enough that I will want a usable rear middle seat. Even just for short trips to restaurants.

Most of my friends are skinny girls. So the lack of width isn't as much of a problem as the lack of headroom.


You know what, I have never really tried the TL system or the 16 speaker BMW one. So, I said "on paper". Thankfully the way I optioned the car, the Bimmer will not have iDrive.

I did try the navigation on the TL and the user interface sucked period.

The BMW is running on run-flats. Still the TL is a great running car. I am impressed.


Please show me where you get your data from. I have the sale brochures right next to me as I am typing this.

TL 11.9/8 (L/100Km)
335xi 12.2/7.9 (L/100Km)


Stock to stock my money is on the BMW every time until that HPFP fails. With a tune, the 335 will most likely walk on the TL.

Again BMW did have run flat tires


In the spec chart pdf they did.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/var/ezfl...ff5f424d86.pdf


Since when does TL have real aluminum. The 2011 and 2012 that I saw both had aluminum looking plastic trims. Personally I would opt for the brush aluminum trim with the Bimmer.


There are better deals to be had on both cars. BMW Canada is more aggressive at the moment that's for sure. Just because the TL is "2012" that just came out doesn't mean anything. It is just marketing.

I mentioned in an earlier post that the BMW 335xi is equipped with executive package and sports seat. There are a few things that it comes with the TL doesn't have, namely 16 Speaker 825watt sound system, Bi-Xenon Adaptive Headlight, Heated Steering Wheel, 60:40 Split Folding Rear Seat and real aluminum/wood trims.

I might be getting a good deal on the TL thanks to bigfoot1523. Looks I might be in a TL after all. Awesome forum.

SL1200MK4

I am sorry to hear that. Sadly you are not the only one. The HPFP issue is still there with the new N55 motor. Much like the Immediate Shaft and Rear Main Seal problem that affected the Porsche 996 and 997.1. German Engineering.

Having had problems with the 2nd Gen TL transmission, I don't think I want to live with a HPFP waiting to fail.

TL and 5 series are comparable in size but the TL and the 3 are comparable in price. Some people shop for a certain size, some like me shop with in a price.

SL1200MK4

Lacking obvious alternatives. Not many cars with around 300hp, AWD and a manual transmission in this price range. There's the S4, CTS, EVO X and that's all I can think of.

While I don't like many things about the TL, it does has a great drivetrain. I am also a huge Honda fan. Hell the watch that I am wearing right now says Honda F1 Racing.

If the price is right, people will buy. If you look at the Feb 2011 sales figure for the TL in Canada. They did very well. Why? because they had $4500 of manufacture's incentive. Simple as that.