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Hello all. I have a 2012 TL "Base" 3.5 with an automatic trans. I have owned it for nearly 4 years and have put about 55k miles on it. It now has almost 105k miles, so it is due for a timing belt service, as well as tires. I am pretty ocd about oil and trans fluid changes (I have gone through 2 cases of DW-1 since I have owned it). I had the trans software update. Overall, it has been the best daily driver I have ever owned. I really like it, but I am at a point where it is time to either let it go or sink some money into it.
My concern is the trans. I have read the usual stuff about these slush boxes. Mine doesn't shift quite as well as it used to, but still fine. Just a little sloppy and slightly ragged at times. I just do not want to get stuck with a $3000 repair down the road.
So I would like to kindly ask for owners with high miles on their original auto transmissions to chime in. We always hear about the bad ones, not necessarily the good ones.
While I am not a slushbox owner, here is a question for you. If your transmission does go Tango Uniform, could you buy a car as nice as your TL for $3,000, plus whatever salvage value you could get for your car? I'm thinking probably not.
I agree with the math, horseshoez, but there is always another car out there I would like to own. The idea of keeping a car for 200k miles appeals to me, though. I have owned this TL longer than I have ever owned a car in my life, and that is a lot of cars. This one is just right. If it had a 6 speed manual, it would be damn near perfect as an everyday car.
I have 184K miles on my '12. Bought at 58K. Change fluid every 10K miles or so and filter every 30K (OCD like you). The AT is running as well as the day I bought it. Used DW-1 for the first 100K or so. Switched to Valvoline Maxlife at about 150K.
Thanks, losiglow. That is reassuring. When you say you change it every 10k mikes, do you mean a drain and fill? Multiple drains and fills? Flush? Did you notice any difference with the Maxlife?
Only 1 drain and fill is necessary, which is about 3.5qts. With a 9qt transmission capacity, that's replacing about 40% of the fluid. You can do multiple drains and fills but it's probably overkill. The "3x3" is usually done when first purchasing a used car or if someone wants to flush most of their fluid. That's a matter of essentially doing a drain and fill 3 times, going several miles in between each one to mix the fluid up. It's still not 100% but it's close to around 80% if you do the math (with mixing of the other fluid and what not). But I really don't think that's necessary every time. Just the first time you get the car, or if you've gone a long time without a change. Frequent 1x drain/refills is sufficient IMO.
Don't do a flush. The traditional flush used for some domestic AT's will kill a Honda transmission. It's happened to many folks here on this forum with a variety of Acura's and Honda's. I believe it has something to do with introducing air into the torque converter or something. Either way, big no-no.
I've noticed no difference with the Maxlife. I only switched because of multiple accounts of guys using it for various Honda transmissions, all of which have had good results. Most of the accounts have been on bobistheoilguy.com. Some have even used it after they had transmission trouble, after which the transmission ran better. Of course, all of that is anecdotal. There's no solid evidence that it's better in any way. What I know is after 30K miles it still runs perfectly. The Maxlife is considerably more affordable as well. About $18 for a 1 gallon jug from Walmart. The argument of using Maxlife vs. DW-1 is moot since there's no data to back up either being superior. There's obviously the argument that Acura/Honda has designated DW-1 for the transmission and thus, we should use it. However, that isn't a valid argument in my opinion. First, they dictated that Z1 was the best fluid back in the early 2000's, which totally sucked. Granted, some of the AT failures simply had to do with the crappy design of the transmission. But for those that switched to the DW-1 for those transmissions later on had much better luck. DW-1 is a superior fluid to Z1 no doubt. But the point stands - I don't blindly trust what Honda dictates. Second, an auto manufacturer is concerned about economy and comfort - not necessary long term reliability (>200K miles). DW-1 is likely designed to provide the best economy and smooth shifting, which is what the customer wants. Maxlife is supposedly designed with maximum reliability in mind. It seems similar to a high-mileage motor oil. It has additional cleaners to clean and avoid varnish as well as seal conditioners to help keep gaskets and seals healthy.
So based on the agenda of the makers of both fluids (well, "supplier" in the case of Honda - it's not as if they're making their own fluids...), I'm apt to trust the Maxlife over Honda in this particular case.
With that long spiel though, there's no doubt that DW-1 is a good fluid. If in doubt, go for it. It's a good quality full synthetic fluid which has been shown to be reliable. You definitely can't go wrong with it.
Thanks for taking the time to write this. I don't do flushes. I usually wait 25k miles or so and do the 3 drain and fill procedure. Now that I have done that a couple of times, I may start doing one drain and fill every 10k miles (every second oil change).
Hi OP. I have a 2012 TL with 195,000 miles on it. It still drives the same as the day I bought it. I've always followed the MID for service and had the dealership do the oil changes with their synthetic product. I did the timing belt around 120k miles.
Only two things I've had to replace:
Alternator at 150k
Steering control electronic module at 180k
I think you could easily get another 100k on that car. As long as you are nice to it!
I have a 2012 fwd with 105k. Drives 100x better after the KTuner, but ofc drove like factory when I had it before the tune ~10k miles ago! best purchase TBH, will give your car new life.
I have 184K miles on my '12. Bought at 58K. Change fluid every 10K miles or so and filter every 30K (OCD like you). The AT is running as well as the day I bought it. Used DW-1 for the first 100K or so. Switched to Valvoline Maxlife at about 150K.
Are you talking about the trans fluid filter or the internal trans filter?
I have a 2012 fwd with 105k. Drives 100x better after the KTuner, but ofc drove like factory when I had it before the tune ~10k miles ago! best purchase TBH, will give your car new life.
I can back that. Just having the throttle compensation changed makes a HUGE difference. Stock DBW setting + 6AT makes the car feel like crap and the trans is about to fail. Definitely alleviated those feelings after getting KTuner.
Only 1 drain and fill is necessary, which is about 3.5qts. With a 9qt transmission capacity, that's replacing about 40% of the fluid. You can do multiple drains and fills but it's probably overkill. The "3x3" is usually done when first purchasing a used car or if someone wants to flush most of their fluid. That's a matter of essentially doing a drain and fill 3 times, going several miles in between each one to mix the fluid up. It's still not 100% but it's close to around 80% if you do the math (with mixing of the other fluid and what not). But I really don't think that's necessary every time. Just the first time you get the car, or if you've gone a long time without a change. Frequent 1x drain/refills is sufficient IMO.
Don't do a flush. The traditional flush used for some domestic AT's will kill a Honda transmission. It's happened to many folks here on this forum with a variety of Acura's and Honda's. I believe it has something to do with introducing air into the torque converter or something. Either way, big no-no.
I've noticed no difference with the Maxlife. I only switched because of multiple accounts of guys using it for various Honda transmissions, all of which have had good results. Most of the accounts have been on bobistheoilguy.com. Some have even used it after they had transmission trouble, after which the transmission ran better. Of course, all of that is anecdotal. There's no solid evidence that it's better in any way. What I know is after 30K miles it still runs perfectly. The Maxlife is considerably more affordable as well. About $18 for a 1 gallon jug from Walmart. The argument of using Maxlife vs. DW-1 is moot since there's no data to back up either being superior. There's obviously the argument that Acura/Honda has designated DW-1 for the transmission and thus, we should use it. However, that isn't a valid argument in my opinion. First, they dictated that Z1 was the best fluid back in the early 2000's, which totally sucked. Granted, some of the AT failures simply had to do with the crappy design of the transmission. But for those that switched to the DW-1 for those transmissions later on had much better luck. DW-1 is a superior fluid to Z1 no doubt. But the point stands - I don't blindly trust what Honda dictates. Second, an auto manufacturer is concerned about economy and comfort - not necessary long term reliability (>200K miles). DW-1 is likely designed to provide the best economy and smooth shifting, which is what the customer wants. Maxlife is supposedly designed with maximum reliability in mind. It seems similar to a high-mileage motor oil. It has additional cleaners to clean and avoid varnish as well as seal conditioners to help keep gaskets and seals healthy.
So based on the agenda of the makers of both fluids (well, "supplier" in the case of Honda - it's not as if they're making their own fluids...), I'm apt to trust the Maxlife over Honda in this particular case.
With that long spiel though, there's no doubt that DW-1 is a good fluid. If in doubt, go for it. It's a good quality full synthetic fluid which has been shown to be reliable. You definitely can't go wrong with it.
Isn't the DW-1 at fault for the infamous transmission "judder" that has a TSB on the 12-14 : All Drivetrains? Yes, the TSB was first diagnosed to be a torque converter issue that initially only required a software update. Then, after a while they found that there were still issues and changed it to Update + 1x3 fluid change, and if that still didn't work, they would replace the TC.... Nearly a year after that, in September last year, they announced that it's not the TC failing, it's the DW-1 ATF not meeting their life expectations, so the TSB is now to only do a full "flush"(meaning the 3x3 procedure) after the software update. I can happily say that I did have my TC replaced and full flush before the latest TSB update, even though it was not necessary, but it was free!
I've never used the DW-1 or the Z1 fluids in either of my TLs - my current '12 FWD, my previous '06. I used the the Maxlife in my 3G and the car was at 245-250k when it was totaled and it still had thousand's of miles of life left and shifted as smooth as a.. I started with Maxlife but now use Redline in my '12, but only the D6(which is the direct equivalent for the DW-1) and not the racing kind. It's nearly the same exact price as the Maxlife - $12-$13/quart.
Originally Posted by placer
Thanks for taking the time to write this. I don't do flushes. I usually wait 25k miles or so and do the 3 drain and fill procedure. Now that I have done that a couple of times, I may start doing one drain and fill every 10k miles (every second oil change).
According to Acura, you only have to do a 1x3 drain/fill every 30k miles( or every 3rd Oil Change).... They also recommend an oil change once every 9-10k miles, or 12 months. Now, I may be old school, but I change my oil every 3-3.5k miles and will do a 1x3 trans fluid about every 15k. You shouldn't do a 3x3 ever if you're regularly maintaining the fluid changes, at least per Acura's schedule, aside from when you first buy the car, if used. Also, apparently the Trans Fluid Filter doesn't ever have to be replaced, according to Acura it's a "lifetime", or "lifelong" IDK, filter, but I've replaced it only once in 130k miles (around 85k) and plan to do it again regularly. Which reminds me of a funny experience, my Acura dealer guys tilted their head and squinted their eyes at me when I told them there is a ATF *Fluid* Filter... There is a TSB on it (TSB 14-049 - Gurgle or Chirp from Under Hood at Cold Start-Up)!!!! Then again, this same dealership "wasn't aware" of the AT Judder TSB when I first brought it to them after buying the car, so their knowledge of the cars they sell/service are no longer to be expected resourceful lol.
I have a '12 FWD Tech, purchased Nov '16 with 45k miles, and now has just over 130k. I drive around 180 miles, 4-5 times a week, so my miles add up quickly. It's had a couple flukes with the 6AT when I first bought it, but after the software update, fluid changes, and TC replacement it still shifts as well as the day I bought it. In my commute, 75% is Interstate 70mph (80-85mph for me), and 25% is 35-50 city driving. I won't lie and say that there isn't a noticeable difference shifting when it's hot, like HARD shifts, but IMO that's to be expected and technically a good thing. My previous car was a '06 TL which had it's fair share of transmission "problems" reported here on this site, but I never experienced a single problem in the 250k miles of its short life. If I hadn't totaled it in an accident, I'd still be driving it today, with almost 350k miles on it I'm sure...
Point being, don't stress over what others say about the trans in your car... Like you pointed out, we only hear about the negative facts, which have got to be fewer than the good facts... I did this when I was researching my next car, after totaling mine, and if I hadn't seen all of the "negatives", I'd have a SHAWD instead of a FWD today... All car makes and models will have transmission issues, it's inevitable, but IMO, keep the car that you clearly like more than any other car that you've owned.
Are you talking about the trans fluid filter or the internal trans filter?
My understanding is that the '09-'11 TL's had the internal filter, which was considered to be a "lifetime" filter and essentially required disassembly of the transmission to change. For the '12-'14 TL's, Acura used an external filter tied into the lines that run from the cooler. If you have the '12, then you'll have the external filter.
Edit: I just noticed that you mentioned some of that below. :P
Originally Posted by mada51589
Isn't the DW-1 at fault for the infamous transmission "judder" that has a TSB on the 12-14 : All Drivetrains? Yes, the TSB was first diagnosed to be a torque converter issue that initially only required a software update. Then, after a while they found that there were still issues and changed it to Update + 1x3 fluid change, and if that still didn't work, they would replace the TC.... Nearly a year after that, in September last year, they announced that it's not the TC failing, it's the DW-1 ATF not meeting their life expectations, so the TSB is now to only do a full "flush"(meaning the 3x3 procedure) after the software update. I can happily say that I did have my TC replaced and full flush before the latest TSB update, even though it was not necessary, but it was free!
I've never used the DW-1 or the Z1 fluids in either of my TLs - my current '12 FWD, my previous '06. I used the the Maxlife in my 3G and the car was at 245-250k when it was totaled and it still had thousand's of miles of life left and shifted as smooth as a.. I started with Maxlife but now use Redline in my '12, but only the D6(which is the direct equivalent for the DW-1) and not the racing kind. It's nearly the same exact price as the Maxlife - $12-$13/quart.
I've never read any claims that the TC issue was from the fluid. I always thought it was simply an engineering defect. It would be interesting to see if the problem went away when switching from DW-1 to Maxlife (or Redline). Yes, I used the D6 as well. But it's much more expensive than the Maxlife. I don't know where you're seeing Maxlife for $12-$13 per quart but it's apparently not at Walmart:
Which reminds me of a funny experience, my Acura dealer guys tilted their head and squinted their eyes at me when I told them there is a ATF *Fluid* Filter... There is a TSB on it (TSB 14-049 - Gurgle or Chirp from Under Hood at Cold Start-Up)!!!! Then again, this same dealership "wasn't aware" of the AT Judder TSB when I first brought it to them after buying the car, so their knowledge of the cars they sell/service are no longer to be expected resourceful lol.
I've said it before but I'm surprised at how little many of the dealership sales people and techs know about the cars they're selling and servicing. I stopped by a dealership here in SLC a few weeks ago to inquire on the price of a control arm - just because I was in the area. Decided against getting it from them because they wanted to charge $220 whereas I could get aftermarket for $50 on RockAuto Anyways, one of the sales guys said I should "upgrade" to the TLX (yes, I put that in quotes for a reason. I wouldn't consider it an upgrade ). He said I could swap my OZ wheels from the TL onto the TLX as well. I told him that I couldn't unless I got wheel adapters because the TLX has a 115x5 bolt pattern and the TL has a 120x5. And also that I was hesitant to get a vehicle with a direct injection engine until they figure out a good way to avoid carbon buildup or Honda starts using a dual injection system (port and direct). He looked at me as though I was speaking Japanese.
Maybe I have too high of expectations for what the sales guys should know. I just know if I were selling cars that I'd want to know all the ins and outs of the cars I was selling. Guess that's just me
I agree with you about car salespeople. I always know more about the car I am going in to see than they do. Walk in a dealership during their slow time and they will be sitting around playing on their phones instead of studying the products they represent.
BACKGROUND
“After the software update, some vehicles, based on how they are driven (extreme conditions), may still experience ATF deterioration after updating the PGM-FI or A/T system and the shudder may return. The problem is typically diagnosed as a bad Torque Converter (TC). There is no damage to the TC, but because the ATF has deteriorated, it needs to be changed even though the "ATF Service Due" message has not appeared. Make sure the vehicle is updated by referring to the INSPECTION PROCEDURE.”
I was completely off about the MaxLife fluid... I was mistaking it for the Castrol TransMax for Imports fluid, and also off on the price. It’s been a few years(~3yr) since I used it, evidently the price went down, but my Walmart didn’t carry it before so things were different then. https://www.walmart.com/nco/9-pack-C...SABEgI2jfD_BwE
[i=left]“After the software update, some vehicles, based on how they are driven (extreme conditions), may still experience ATF deterioration after updating the PGM-FI or A/T system and the shudder may return. The problem is typically diagnosed as a bad Torque Converter (TC). There is no damage to the TC, but because the ATF has deteriorated, it needs to be changed even though the "ATF Service Due" message has not appeared. Make sure the vehicle is updated by referring to the INSPECTION PROCEDURE.”[/i]
This doesn't surprise me at all. I've always felt that a good majority of transmission problems in Honda AT's (or maybe all AT's?) are due to old/dirty fluid. Maybe I don't give ATF enough credit but I think the amount of shearing and contamination exposed to the fluid is underestimated. I'm no engineer so that's a bit presumptuous but still, the fluid gets the crap kicked out of it in modern AT's. I'd guess the shearing and heat are the worst part. Oil breaks down on the molecular level in those situations which compromises lubrication. I believe that warrants more frequent replacing that most auto manufacturers state.
SOLD 2007 Accord 5sp auto 170k miles, changed fluid every 30k no problems
SOLD 2010 Accord 5sp auto 140k miles, changed fluid every 30k no problems
2012 TL 6sp auto 211k miles, changed fluid every 30k no problems I should probably change the filter too next time
2013 RDX 102k 6sp auto, changed fluid every 30k no problems
I never get more than 3.5 quarts out. Maybe I will let it drain longer next time. As long as the level is correct before I start (I carefully check), the same amount goes back in.
These high mile stories have convinced me to hang on to this car. BTW, I hit 105k this week and no service light came on for the timing belt service. Are there other variables that the computer looks at before requiring service, or is it just miles?
I never get more than 3.5 quarts out. Maybe I will let it drain longer next time. As long as the level is correct before I start (I carefully check), the same amount goes back in.
These high mile stories have convinced me to hang on to this car. BTW, I hit 105k this week and no service light came on for the timing belt service. Are there other variables that the computer looks at before requiring service, or is it just miles?
Have you owned the car since new? I ask because there is a chance the previous owner had a service done which caused the tech to reset the counter for the belt.
I never get more than 3.5 quarts out. Maybe I will let it drain longer next time. As long as the level is correct before I start (I carefully check), the same amount goes back in.
These high mile stories have convinced me to hang on to this car. BTW, I hit 105k this week and no service light came on for the timing belt service. Are there other variables that the computer looks at before requiring service, or is it just miles?
the dummy minder will say A13 or something like that
make sure to add the timing belt tensioner to the service
i just did mine at 210k and the wife’s at 102k
with coupons in nj it was just under $1000 before tax each
the tensioner in my tl was bad at 185k and didn’t know it until they fixed it
the dummy minder will say A13 or something like that
make sure to add the timing belt tensioner to the service
i just did mine at 210k and the wife’s at 102k
with coupons in nj it was just under $1000 before tax each
the tensioner in my tl was bad at 185k and didn’t know it until they fixed it
I'd recommend throwing in every other part too. Belt, tensioner (with pulley), idle pulley and water pump. And only get (or insist on) OEM parts.
I never get more than 3.5 quarts out. Maybe I will let it drain longer next time. As long as the level is correct before I start (I carefully check), the same amount goes back in.
These high mile stories have convinced me to hang on to this car. BTW, I hit 105k this week and no service light came on for the timing belt service. Are there other variables that the computer looks at before requiring service, or is it just miles?
Mine just showed the timing belt service message, I think it was A13, and it said 15% remaining. I’m over 130k now, so I think the service minder for it is like your oil change reminder, it’s based off driving conditions, but idk for sure.
Theres way more to the timing belt service than just replacing the timing belt. Here’s what the dealership replaces in this service:
Timing Belt
TB Adjuster pulley
TB Idler pulley
TB Hydraulic pulley
2 cam seals
Front main(crank) seal
Water pump and gasket of course
Drive belt
Coolant
Do all of these parts need to be replaced, not necessarily, but their theory is that since they have the front of the motor tore off, might as well. I agree , especially since nowadays the waterpump is driven by the timing belt, instead of the drive belt like it’s been since water cooling was first introduced. If your water pump locks up, bye-bye cams and valves! Also, with the water pump causing all that extra friction and tension, it’s best to get the belt replaced before it breaks...
On my 3G TL, it was about $850 - $900 to have the dealer do it, that’s after a 10% off coupon which they always seem to have. I haven’t done the TB service on my 4G, but It should be the same price since it’s the same service and most likely the exact same part numbers. I’ll be doing it myself this time since I know this motor like the back of my hand. It’ll save me $500-$600, so...
One thing that I’ll also do at the same time that isn’t part of the TB service, which should be, is check all valve clearances and adjust accordingly. Yes the TB and valves are technically “different” areas of the engine, but one controls the other and an old/bad timing belt will affect the valves, especially with VTEC or any VVT, so it’s only logical to check them at the same time for me.
That caused another funny look from the service advisors at the dealership when I had them do it on my 3G... But hey, I’m the kind of guy who removes all wheel weights from the wheel before “re-balancing” tires. That’s a discussion for another day though...
I’ve got a 2012 fwd with 207k miles I bought it from basically the original owner who bought it with 30k miles. I bought it with 183k 13 months ago. It has the original transmission and torque converter. It shifts flawlessly.
When i I bought it I did a 3x3 trans fluid change and changed it again at 200k miles. The fluid literally came out as clean as the brand new dw1 that was fresh in the bottle.
It got the the software update when it had 180k miles right before I bought it. I spoke to the dealership that did the work and they looked at the notes and said they do it on every TL that has not got it. It didn’t have an issue before. It was brought in for the airbag recall and they went ahead and did the trans update while in.
I test drove a 2013 model with 55k miles and my high mileage model shifted way better then the low mileage.
With your level of maintenance, I’d say your car will last at least till 300K! That is assuming your driving style is that of a grown responsible adult and not Dominic Torreto’s. Remember that at heart, our Acura’s are really just Honda Accords. I say that as a compliment and because I own (and daily drive) both!
I had my transmission drain and filled twice since I bought it at 43K miles now I’m at 68k and my transmission is still smooth like butter. I have not had this transmission update. Not sure if it’s been done on my car before I purchased it but when the dealer did the tsb for the external transmission filter they said the update was not needed for my car. Also I recently had a BG Fluid Exchange done at the dealer which looks like a basic drain and fill with the BG transmission additive. Here’s my paper work for that service. I’m pretty sure they drain the fluid while the car is on the lift which speeds up the processs. Oil and transmission fluid where both changed in literally 30 minutes.
I have much more confidence in keeping my car now after reading all these posts with high miles. The post from mada51589 was interesting. I thought the timing belt service reminder was automatic at 105k. I guess it takes driving habits into account. I am at 106k now and no reminder, yet.
On a side note, another reason for keeping it is the interior quality on this car. The leather has held up better than any other car I have owned, or any used car I have considered buying. My seats are very comfortable, with almost no wear after 7 years and 106k miles. My steering wheel and shift knob are still like new. Try that with any other car I know of. And still virtually no rattles or squeaks. also, my tires have at least 60k on them and are wearing evenly with no alignment issues. I am starting to sound like I work for Honda.
Thoughts on how often to change the coolant? Was told only to do it when the timing belt gets changed since part of timing belt service is new water pump but some people do not put a lot of miles on their cars (me) and am concerned that coolant may not have the corrosive resistance and cooling capabilities it once had. Am thinking to drain coolant myself and use OEM from an online Acura parts supplier.
Thoughts on how often to change the coolant? Was told only to do it when the timing belt gets changed since part of timing belt service is new water pump but some people do not put a lot of miles on their cars (me) and am concerned that coolant may not have the corrosive resistance and cooling capabilities it once had. Am thinking to drain coolant myself and use OEM from an online Acura parts supplier.
01-23-2019, 08:48 PM
Anyways, one of the sales guys said I should "upgrade" to the TLX (yes, I put that in quotes for a reason. I wouldn't consider it an upgrade 
). He said I could swap my OZ wheels from the TL onto the TLX as well. I told him that I couldn't unless I got wheel adapters because the TLX has a 115x5 bolt pattern and the TL has a 120x5. And also that I was hesitant to get a vehicle with a direct injection engine until they figure out a good way to avoid carbon buildup or Honda starts using a dual injection system (port and direct). He looked at me as though I was speaking Japanese.
