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Acura's Response to Excessive Oil Consumption

 
Old 12-22-2017, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mossman77 View Post
I'm not worried about it. I look at it like this, I am constantly adding fresh oil, so the engine is happier
I wish it work that way. Unless you add 2.5 quarts or more at a time, otherwise it won't make the dirty oil more fresher.
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Old 12-22-2017, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by nzone View Post
I wish it work that way. Unless you add 2.5 quarts or more at a time, otherwise it won't make the dirty oil more fresher.
Not sure I understand that comment. If you run the engine a quart low and then refill with new oil, the oil will be less dirty and "more fresher".
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Old 12-22-2017, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez View Post
Not sure I understand that comment. If you run the engine a quart low and then refill with new oil, the oil will be less dirty and "more fresher".
On technicality, yes it would be less dirty and more fresher...like 1% better (probably even lower). The chemistry changes little or won't change at all. Certainly, it will make a difference if you top off 1/2 quart on every 200 miles. However, that is not the case.
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Old 12-22-2017, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by nzone View Post
On technicality, yes it would be less dirty and more fresher...like 1% better (probably even lower). The chemistry changes little or won't change at all. Certainly, it will make a difference if you top off 1/2 quart on every 200 miles. However, that is not the case.
I'm not sure what you're saying; if you have a 4.5 quart oil capacity and if the engine leaks or otherwise consumes a quart of oil every 1,000 miles and you add that quart back in with new oil (meaning 22% of the oil is new), then the resultant mixture is dramatically fresher.
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Old 12-22-2017, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez View Post
I'm not sure what you're saying; if you have a 4.5 quart oil capacity and if the engine leaks or otherwise consumes a quart of oil every 1,000 miles and you add that quart back in with new oil (meaning 22% of the oil is new), then the resultant mixture is dramatically fresher.
Sure, the amount of fresh oil you top off, you get that much percentage returns at that instance, quantity-for-quantity. At a molecule level, probably not. I'll give you the example I have with my J37 engine. After oil change, I can go up to about 1600 miles before I need to top off 1/2 quart. If you said is true, oil gets fresher, I expected to go another 1600 miles before I need to top off another 1/2 quart but it is not the case. I can only go another 900 miles before I need to top off another 1/2 quart. And it doesn't matter I top off another 1/2 or a quart, I will get lesser mileage driven until I replace the entire 4.5 quarts.
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Old 12-22-2017, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by nzone View Post
Sure, the amount of fresh oil you top off, you get that much percentage returns at that instance, quantity-for-quantity. At a molecule level, probably not. I'll give you the example I have with my J37 engine. After oil change, I can go up to about 1600 miles before I need to top off 1/2 quart. If you said is true, oil gets fresher, I expected to go another 1600 miles before I need to top off another 1/2 quart but it is not the case. I can only go another 900 miles before I need to top off another 1/2 quart. And it doesn't matter I top off another 1/2 or a quart, I will get lesser mileage driven until I replace the entire 4.5 quarts.
I think you are misunderstanding what I said. Using your example, adding a half quart at 1,600 miles means the mileage age of your oil drops effectively to 1,422 miles.
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Old 12-22-2017, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez View Post
I think you are misunderstanding what I said. Using your example, adding a half quart at 1,600 miles means the mileage age of your oil drops effectively to 1,422 miles.
Based on that assumption, I could go another 1422 miles before I needed to add another 1/2. I wish it could for my car, but it isn't the case. 1600 to 900 is not 12% drop, it almost 50%. So my 1/2 quart top off fixed the quantity briefly and does nothing else...dirty still get dirtier.
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Old 12-22-2017, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by nzone View Post
Based on that assumption, I could go another 1422 miles before I needed to add another 1/2. I wish it could for my car, but it isn't the case. 1600 to 900 is not 12% drop, it almost 50%. So my 1/2 quart top off fixed the quantity briefly and does nothing else...dirty still get dirtier.
How do you qualify dirtier? Most oil darkens as it ages; the darkening is no indication what-so-ever of the oil being dirty.
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Old 01-18-2018, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by EE4Life View Post
American Honda is extending the warranty coverage on the piston rings and pistons for affected vehicles to 8 years from the original date of purchase or 125,000 miles, whichever comes first.

Acura will be issuing a service bulletin in the future, so stay tuned.
I hope this is the case. I bought a 2011 MDX back in Sept (2017) with 66K miles. I later stumbled across a mention of oil consumption online and checked the oil. This was 1K miles into my ownership. The oil level was right in the middle so I thought I was good and had forgotten about it. In retrospect, maybe they had overfilled it because I never checked it at the onset.

In December, I heard the valvetrain noise when I walked out of the car while it was idling. I checked the oil and the level was nowhere on the dipstick. Gggrrrrr!. I had to add 1.5qts just to get it to the low mark. I added 2 qts total to get me to the midpoint. (All the extra oil I had onhand otherwise, I would have gone to full)

I also happened to look through the messages on the NAV and saw that the previous owner had a low oil message. Cross referencing the Carfax shows that he took it in to the dealer the next day and had an oil change done. Nothing in the carfax about low oil. So my guess is that the previous owner had the oil consumption and then traded the car in. What sucks is that he had an extended CPO warranty. I called Acura and the CPO warranty does not transfer.

I am at 72K miles now and have been sick to my stomach about this issue. (Worrying about the reliability/longevity of this engine being affected) Since I am out of warranty, I assumed I was SOL, so if this is true, I'd be ecstatic.

We've previously owned a 2005 TL and currently own a 2007 RDX with 152K miles. (The RDX has the Hondata ECU tune) Neither of those cars had any issues with oil consumption.

If I knew that reliability is not affected and limit consumption to 1qt/2000 miles, I can live with that if I have to. Problem is, is that I can get forgetful. Happened with my Subaru sometimes. I'd just forget to check the oil and then when I'd change the oil, only 3 quarts would come out. This happened more than I care to admit, but the engine didn't seem to be affected. I made it to 162K miles and had to rebuild because the oil pickup broke. (What sucks up the oil from the oilpan) Also, if I could check the oil cold, I'd remember more often. I only seem to remember to check when I am getting into it.

I have a Turbo Subaru (2.5L boxer) which are notorious for oil consumption and it would burn about 1qt/2500 miles. I actually had the engine rebuilt last year and got forged pistons/internals installed and it no longer burns any oil and I have 30K since I had that done. So in that case, new pistons fixed the issue.

I emailed the dealer where I bought this from to see if they can help.

Last edited by dinot; 01-18-2018 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 03-15-2018, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by EE4Life View Post
American Honda is extending the warranty coverage on the piston rings and pistons for affected vehicles to 8 years from the original date of purchase or 125,000 miles, whichever comes first.

Acura will be issuing a service bulletin in the future, so stay tuned.
See TSB 18-009 - Engine Oil Consumption Exceeds Client Expectations in the 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, and 2014 TSB threads.

While there is no mention of a warranty extension in the TSB, as I previously stated would happen, that may change in the future.

Last edited by EE4Life; 03-15-2018 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 03-15-2018, 09:43 PM
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Interesting. Seems like they feel they have ruled certain causes out (scratched bores) and certain causes in (carbon fouled oil control ring) as leading to excessive consumption. But I wonder what about the replacement parts will prevent the new oil control rings from becoming carbon fouled and reverting to the same problem. Also not clear is why some cars have no consumption, some have a little and some have a lot. Driving styles? Gasoline choices? Still a lot of unanswered questions, including what warranty extensions/good will the company will extend. If indeed it's 8 years or 125K miles, many cars are likely at or beyond that range already.
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Old 03-16-2018, 01:23 PM
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I go in tomorrow for oil consumption test results. Based on a new service bulletin it looks like they are being generous with warranty repairs surround this. I will keep upi posted on my visit to acura This saturday.
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Old 03-16-2018, 04:43 PM
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Great. You probably should reference the TSB; it seems the service writers/techs are not always immediately up to date on these things. Let us know what you hear.
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Old 03-16-2018, 07:23 PM
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Yet it seems like the 1 qt per 1k miles is still the definition of "excessive" for warranty repair?
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Old 03-17-2018, 08:32 AM
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Does someone have a link to the new TSB?

I've noticed that driving style greatly affects oil consumption. If I drive lots of highway miles, I don't use up much oil. Stop and go (especially if I drive it more spirited and let the RPMs rev up) it uses up much more oil. I know that this is somewhat obvious.
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Old 03-17-2018, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by dinot View Post
Does someone have a link to the new TSB?

I've noticed that driving style greatly affects oil consumption. If I drive lots of highway miles, I don't use up much oil. Stop and go (especially if I drive it more spirited and let the RPMs rev up) it uses up much more oil. I know that this is somewhat obvious.
http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SB/B18-009.PDF
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Old 03-17-2018, 04:23 PM
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Thank you. I am hoping that they extend the warranty for this issue. I am at 7 years 73K miles.
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Old 03-19-2018, 12:37 PM
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Got my oil consumption test back. They were concerned because it was so low when I brought it in.
Everything appears normal, for now. I will upload the results soon enough.
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Old 03-19-2018, 03:10 PM
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I'm glad Honda is extending the warranty on this issue. I'm at 59k miles and it's getting progressively worse. I just did an oil change 800 miles ago and I'm already down 3/4 of a quart. Normally after a fresh oil change I don't burn oil until after about 4k miles,
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Old 03-19-2018, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by VanyDotK View Post
I'm glad Honda is extending the warranty on this issue. I'm at 59k miles and it's getting progressively worse. I just did an oil change 800 miles ago and I'm already down 3/4 of a quart. Normally after a fresh oil change I don't burn oil until after about 4k miles,
warranty have they extended surrounding this issue? I haven't heard of anything yet.
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Old 03-19-2018, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by dregsfan View Post
Yet it seems like the 1 qt per 1k miles is still the definition of "excessive" for warranty repair?
This is dated, but it appears so:
http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/FF/BJA45263.PDF
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Old 03-19-2018, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by rainydays View Post
My understanding to this document is 1qt every 1,000 miles is the worst worst case scenario. However, if the consumption is 1qt for every 3,000 mile, that still needs to be checked by Acura.
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Old 03-19-2018, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by rainydays View Post
Originally Posted by Mina_Bekhit View Post
My understanding to this document is 1qt every 1,000 miles is the worst worst case scenario. However, if the consumption is 1qt for every 3,000 mile, that still needs to be checked by Acura.
That is an older version. Here is the latest version:

Engine Oil Consumption Test
http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SB/BJA45263.PDF
http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/p...u/BJA45263.PDF
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Old 03-19-2018, 10:49 PM
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What's more of a concern? How extensive the repair is and trusting that it will be performed exactly to the procedure or needing to add oil at frequent intervals? Any high mileage forum members still dealing with oil consumption? Any reports of lost compression at this point?
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Old 03-19-2018, 10:49 PM
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Can anyone confirm the amount of oil consumpion in qt between the low and high level in the dipstick?
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Old 03-20-2018, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by rainydays View Post
Wait...so am I understanding this Service bulletin correctly....Lets say My car burned 2 quarts.....per 1000 miles.
All that work that is described in the SB, who pays for that? Is it out of my pocket? Or warranty?
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Old 03-20-2018, 01:36 AM
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reading that MADE me want to get new pistons LOL Just because
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Old 03-20-2018, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Mina_Bekhit View Post
Can anyone confirm the amount of oil consumpion in qt between the low and high level in the dipstick?
Between the low and high level is near exactly 1qt.

I was 1.5 quarts low and the disptick was bone dry. I confirmed this with the Acura Tech. Once the dipstick is on the low side or not showing any oil about a 1qt is missing.
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Old 03-21-2018, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MOBB212 View Post
Between the low and high level is near exactly 1qt.

I was 1.5 quarts low and the disptick was bone dry. I confirmed this with the Acura Tech. Once the dipstick is on the low side or not showing any oil about a 1qt is missing.
Good to know. Thanks.
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Old 03-21-2018, 03:14 PM
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Is Acura waiting for most owners to accumulate very high mileage before issuing a warranty extension to minimize $$$ loss? I would be afraid of these scenarios:
1. Perform oil consumption test
2. Engine consumed more than 1-qt per 1000-mi
3. Then dealer telling owner, we will need to strip the engine to see if piston rings ceased by carbon buildups or excessive cylinder walls scored. But if none of that happened, you will have to pay for the work to re-assemble. That would be bad.

Anyway, here's a curve ball. I've been trying many difference things to find the solution to oil consumption. The last thing I tried was BG MOA Extended Life (synthetic version).
1. My car consumed 0.5-qt in 1500-mi using 5w-30 Mobil 1 AP (best oil tried that consumed less). However, beyond the 1500-mi, oil consumption increased exponentially.
2. For being consistent, I use the same 5w-30 Mobil 1 AP (4-qt 5-oz) with added BG MOA Extended life (11-oz). At 1500-mi, there was no sign of oil consumption. I checked at 2500-mi, it was down by 3/4 quart. It seemed like BG MOA was able to prolong oil a little bit.
3. Now trying Valvoline 5w-30 Synthetic Maxlife.
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Old 03-21-2018, 03:19 PM
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Not sure if this will help; when I first bought my V6 Accord I used Mobil 1 0W-20 in it and it went through the first quart in about 3,000 miles. I switched to Castrol Edge 0W-20 and the engine wouldn't consume a quart in the full 7,500 mile OCI I've been using on that car.
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Old 03-21-2018, 04:11 PM
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From Day 1 Ive always used Pure Synthetic. 5w20
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Old 03-21-2018, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mrphilipanderson View Post
From Day 1 Ive always used Pure Synthetic. 5w20
For your engine, it matters not what oil you've used, even if you used Super-Duper Unobtainium Enriched 23rd century oil, you'd either have an issue or not; luck of the draw on these engines.
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Old 04-05-2018, 01:18 PM
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I'm not sure if I'm happy or sad that I found this thread.

Last year I bought a 2010 TL SH-AWD and was shocked that when I went to do my first oil change the level was so low. I was sick to my stomach. I'm on my third oil change and within the last two it has consumed 3-3.5 quarts within that change. I don't have a local acura dealer, but I do have a local honda dealer. Will they be able to look at the car?

It is a 2010 with 97k on it. I just put new tires on it and was about to list it for sale even though I love the car. Any help would be great. In the meantime I'm going to call my friend that is a service writer for honda to see what he says.
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Old 04-05-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 331 LX View Post
I'm not sure if I'm happy or sad that I found this thread.

Last year I bought a 2010 TL SH-AWD and was shocked that when I went to do my first oil change the level was so low. I was sick to my stomach. I'm on my third oil change and within the last two it has consumed 3-3.5 quarts within that change. I don't have a local acura dealer, but I do have a local honda dealer. Will they be able to look at the car?

It is a 2010 with 97k on it. I just put new tires on it and was about to list it for sale even though I love the car. Any help would be great. In the meantime I'm going to call my friend that is a service writer for honda to see what he says.
Well, if I were you I would:\
1.) At your next oil change set an appointment with the dealership, At that time you let them know you believe your car is consuming a lot of oil.
At that appointment, you take all the printed TSB and Service bulletins pertaining to your model year.

2.) Service Bulletins are posted through this thread. If you start from the first one and skim you will see, or you can in the search bat put something to the effect of Excessive oil Consumption Service bulletin TSB im sure you will find it.
I just dont hav ethe time at the moment to do it for you. perhaps someone else can chime in to help with better direction on how to find them. Why are TSB and Service bulletins important? They alert Service tech to Issues that are common or becoming commom for a model year. Also havig this lets them know you've done your homework and could save a lot guess work for you and them.

3.) If you're consumes as much oil as you say, ANYONE would notice. And Acura may potential cover under many extended warranty for our model years...
If it turns out it is an oil gizller there are spec steps they follow in the Service bulletin
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Old 04-05-2018, 02:14 PM
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Here's the relevant TSB you'll want for your car should you decide to take it to an Acura dealer.

TSB 18-009 - Engine Oil Consumption Exceeds Client Expectations
Applies To: 2009-14 TL SH-AWD - ALL - ALL
http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SB/B18-009.PDF
http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/p...nu/B18-009.PDF
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Old 04-06-2018, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by mrphilipanderson View Post
Well, if I were you I would:\
1.) At your next oil change set an appointment with the dealership, At that time you let them know you believe your car is consuming a lot of oil.
At that appointment, you take all the printed TSB and Service bulletins pertaining to your model year.

2.) Service Bulletins are posted through this thread. If you start from the first one and skim you will see, or you can in the search bat put something to the effect of Excessive oil Consumption Service bulletin TSB im sure you will find it.
I just dont hav ethe time at the moment to do it for you. perhaps someone else can chime in to help with better direction on how to find them. Why are TSB and Service bulletins important? They alert Service tech to Issues that are common or becoming commom for a model year. Also havig this lets them know you've done your homework and could save a lot guess work for you and them.

3.) If you're consumes as much oil as you say, ANYONE would notice. And Acura may potential cover under many extended warranty for our model years...
If it turns out it is an oil gizller there are spec steps they follow in the Service bulletin
Yea, so right after I made this post I called the closest Acura dealership which is 2 hours away. Got to the service manager and started out by asking when the delivery date was on my car, so I provided him the VIN and .. It was January of 2010. So Just out of the 8 years.

Anyway, Immediately he said I had a airbag recall that needed to be taken care of immediately and not to drive the car. So I told him that's all fine and dandy and I would set up an appt to get the car there to take care of the airbag recall but my main reason for the call was this TSB. I've worked at dealerships so I have a pretty good idea of how stuff works in that regard. So I chatted with the service manager, he knew of the TSB and my concerns about the heavy consumption so he said the best thing to do is just do the consumption test if I want to keep the car. He said even though we are out of time on the warranty, if its that bad he will fight to get it taken care of. Also noted that since my family has purchased probably 8 honda/acura vehicles in the last 5-6 years it should help.

My concern was that I wanted to sell the car before 100k.. I'm at 97,200 right now so I'd be at 100k after all of the 3 consumption tests. Ultimately, the service manager is going to call me tomorrow with a date to get the car there ASAP and I'll decide tomorrow if I want to do the consumption test. They will be sending a tow truck to get the car and will foot the bill as well,

I'll update the thread on how this goes. I'd like to keep the car but it's kind of a gamble in my situation, driving back and forth 4 hours that may not amount to shit. LOL
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Old 04-06-2018, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 331 LX View Post
Yea, so right after I made this post I called the closest Acura dealership which is 2 hours away. Got to the service manager and started out by asking when the delivery date was on my car, so I provided him the VIN and .. It was January of 2010. So Just out of the 8 years.

Anyway, Immediately he said I had a airbag recall that needed to be taken care of immediately and not to drive the car. So I told him that's all fine and dandy and I would set up an appt to get the car there to take care of the airbag recall but my main reason for the call was this TSB. I've worked at dealerships so I have a pretty good idea of how stuff works in that regard. So I chatted with the service manager, he knew of the TSB and my concerns about the heavy consumption so he said the best thing to do is just do the consumption test if I want to keep the car. He said even though we are out of time on the warranty, if its that bad he will fight to get it taken care of. Also noted that since my family has purchased probably 8 honda/acura vehicles in the last 5-6 years it should help.

My concern was that I wanted to sell the car before 100k.. I'm at 97,200 right now so I'd be at 100k after all of the 3 consumption tests. Ultimately, the service manager is going to call me tomorrow with a date to get the car there ASAP and I'll decide tomorrow if I want to do the consumption test. They will be sending a tow truck to get the car and will foot the bill as well,

I'll update the thread on how this goes. I'd like to keep the car but it's kind of a gamble in my situation, driving back and forth 4 hours that may not amount to shit. LOL
Any update? I don't know that the car comes with 8 years warranty. Is this warranty extension regarding the oil consumption issue only? Anyone knows if this is the case in Canada as well?
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Old 04-06-2018, 10:51 PM
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Only recently did they up it to 8 years in response to this concern. I don't see why it wouldn't include Canada since they're the same Ohio production plant.
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Old 04-07-2018, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Mina_Bekhit View Post
Any update? I don't know that the car comes with 8 years warranty. Is this warranty extension regarding the oil consumption issue only? Anyone knows if this is the case in Canada as well?
WHen a company extends a warranty its generally ONLY for SPECIFIC systems or parts. NEVER like a standard factory warranty.
In answer to your questions, This warranty would be applied only to parts mentioned in the bulletin. If the parts are not mentioned,, they will not be covered.
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