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Acura's Response to Excessive Oil Consumption

Old 11-19-2017, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez View Post
I'm afraid you're misinformed; there are numerous testimonials on this forum from folks who have J37 engines which do not consume any oil.
I'm afraid you're misinformed, There is no internal combustion engine that does not consume oil. Absolutely all engines consume oil, some are consuming more others are less, but absolutely everyone consume
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Old 11-19-2017, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by altair47 View Post
I'm afraid you're misinformed, There is no internal combustion engine that does not consume oil. Absolutely all engines consume oil, some are consuming more others are less, but absolutely everyone consume
Okay, now you're just being silly. When I said "...do not consume any oil..." I should thing it would be obvious I was referring to engines which consume a quart or two or three between oil changes. That said, I'd be surprised if my J32 has consumed more than three ounces in the last 8,000 miles; that in my book qualifies as not consuming any oil.
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Old 11-20-2017, 04:21 AM
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All engines consume oil.

But Honda engines, all except the J37 3.7L-V6, are historically almost bullet-proof in oil consumption. They rarely need to top up with fresh oil in between oil changes.

So when the J37 is burning oil, in between oil changes, at a rate measured in quarts, something is not right with that Honda engine.

On the other hand, Audi/Volkswagen vehicles are notorious to burn engine oil.

Thus, excessive oil consumption is the norm for Audi/Volks, but never for Honda (until the debut of the J37).
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Old 11-20-2017, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Edward'TLS View Post
All engines consume oil.

But Honda engines, all except the J37 3.7L-V6, are historically almost bullet-proof in oil consumption. They rarely need to top up with fresh oil in between oil changes.

So when the J37 is burning oil, in between oil changes, at a rate measured in quarts, something is not right with that Honda engine.

On the other hand, Audi/Volkswagen vehicles are notorious to burn engine oil.

Thus, excessive oil consumption is the norm for Audi/Volks, but never for Honda (until the debut of the J37).
Totally agree, that's the way it is
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Old 11-20-2017, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by altair47 View Post
I'm afraid you're misinformed, There is no internal combustion engine that does not consume oil. Absolutely all engines consume oil, some are consuming more others are less, but absolutely everyone consume


Originally Posted by horseshoez View Post
I'm afraid you're misinformed; there are numerous testimonials on this forum from folks who have J37 engines which do not consume any oil.
True. The J37 is moreprone to oil consumption but there are plenty that don't. I'd actually say the majority don't. But if even 30% did, that's still way to high.
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Old 11-20-2017, 03:38 PM
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ENGINE (PWS)

    • Date ReportedOCTOBER 19, 2016
    • NHTSA Reference#10087445
    • TSB Reference#BTS160705
    Description: "TECHLINE SUMMARY ARTICLE - ENGINE OIL CONSUMPTION MAY BE EXCEEDING CLIENT EXPECTATIONS. IF YOU GET A VEHICLE IN FOR AN OIL CONSUMPTION CONCERN, BE SURE TO RUN AN OIL CONSUMPTION TEST USING THE ENGINE OIL CONSUMPTION TEST JOB AID IN SIS. W

    Want to learn how to fix NHTSA #10087445?
    • Date ReportedOCTOBER 06, 2016
    • NHTSA Reference#10086989
    • TSB Reference#BPAS10062016902
    Description: DEALER MESSAGE - AMERICAN HONDA (AHM) IS INVESTIGATING CERTAIN 2010-2013 MDXS, 2011-2012 RLS, 2009-2014 SHAWD TLS & 2010-2013 ZDXS WITH A CLIENT COMPLAINT OF HIGHER THAN EXPECTED ENGINE OIL CONSUMPTION. TO FULLY UNDERSTAND THE CAUSE OF THIS

    Want to learn how to fix NHTSA #10086989?
    • Date ReportedOCTOBER 03, 2016
    • NHTSA Reference#10086986
    • TSB Reference#BPAS10032016904
    Description: DEALER MESSAGE - AMERICAN HONDA (AHM) IS INVESTIGATING CERTAIN 2010-2013 MDXS, 2011-2012 RLS, 2009-2014 SHAWD TLS & 2010-2013 ZDXS WITH A CLIENT COMPLAINT OF HIGHER THAN EXPECTED ENGINE OIL CONSUMPTION. TO FULLY UNDERSTAND THE CAUSE OF THIS

    Want to learn how to fix NHTSA #10086986?
    • Date ReportedSEPTEMBER 15, 2016
    • NHTSA Reference#10086261
    • TSB Reference#BPAS09152016902
    Description: DEALER MESSAGE - AMERICAN HONDA (AHM) IS INVESTIGATING CERTAIN 2010-2013 MDXS, 2011-2012 RLS, 2009-2014 SHAWD TLS & 2010-2013 ZDXS WITH A CLIENT COMPLAINT OF HIGHER THAN EXPECTED ENGINE OIL CONSUMPTION. TO FULLY UNDERSTAND THE CAUSE OF THIS

    Want to learn how to fix NHTSA #10086261?
    • Date ReportedSEPTEMBER 09, 2016
    • NHTSA Reference#10086202
    • TSB Reference#BPAS09092016901
    Description: DEALER MESSAGE - AMERICAN HONDA (AHM) IS INVESTIGATING CERTAIN 2010-2013 MDXS, 2011-2012 RLS, 2009-2014 SHAWD TLS & 2010-2013 ZDXS WITH A CLIENT COMPLAINT OF HIGHER THAN EXPECTED ENGINE OIL CONSUMPTION. TO FULLY UNDERSTAND THE CAUSE OF THIS

    Want to learn how to fix NHTSA #10086202?
    • Date ReportedAUGUST 31, 2016
    • NHTSA Reference#10086134
    • TSB Reference#BPAS08312016902
    Description: DEALER MESSAGE - AMERICAN HONDA (AHM) IS INVESTIGATING CERTAIN 2010-2013 MDXS, 2011-2012 RLS, 2009-2014 SHAWD TLS & 2010-2013 ZDXS WITH A CLIENT COMPLAINT OF HIGHER THAN EXPECTED ENGINE OIL CONSUMPTION. TO FULLY UNDERSTAND THE CAUSE OF THIS

    Want to learn how to fix NHTSA #10086134?
    • Date ReportedJULY 28, 2016
    • NHTSA Reference#10084583
    • TSB Reference#B-PAS-07282016-9
    Description: DEALER MESSAGE - AMERICAN HONDA (AHM) IS INVESTIGATING CERTAIN 2010-2013 MDXS, 2011-2012 RLS, 2009-2014 SHAWD TLS & 2010-2013 ZDXS WITH A CLIENT COMPLAINT OF HIGHER THAN EXPECTED ENGINE OIL CONSUMPTION. TO FULLY UNDERSTAND THE CAUSE OF THIS

    Want to learn how to fix NHTSA #10084583?
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:47 AM
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^^ As noted in the TSBs, some 3.7s have used oil; some use a lot. Acura is aware of the problem and for some customers has replaced pistons, rings, heads and even short blocks when the consumption exceeds a quart/1,000 miles.

Maybe Acura knows, but from this forum, there seems to be no common denominator as to why some 3.7 motors use oil, why some use a lot of oil, and why some use none. That is the big question.

If yours is using a lot of oil (more than 1 quart/1000) and you're under warranty or just out, you should take the car to your dealer to confirm the excess usage and then to have Acura perform a warranty or good will repair.

Good luck.
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Old 11-21-2017, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by JM2010 SH-AWD View Post
^^ As noted in the TSBs, some 3.7s have used oil; some use a lot. Acura is aware of the problem and for some customers has replaced pistons, rings, heads and even short blocks when the consumption exceeds a quart/1,000 miles.

Maybe Acura knows, but from this forum, there seems to be no common denominator as to why some 3.7 motors use oil, why some use a lot of oil, and why some use none. That is the big question.

If yours is using a lot of oil (more than 1 quart/1000) and you're under warranty or just out, you should take the car to your dealer to confirm the excess usage and then to have Acura perform a warranty or good will repair.

Good luck.
The reason is initially in the wrong engine break-in period. With cast-iron sleeves, the incorrect running-in can lead to the combustion of the combustion chamber and a significant reduction in the engine life. In the case of J37, this is the nickel-silicon coating of the cylinders, which, if not correctly run-in, substantially wipes out the compression and oil-ring rings, which leads to oil consumption. At absolutely not right break-in and overheating, even scratches on the walls of the cylinder are possible which leads to extreme oil consumption, which leads to the replacement of a short block. Similar problems with the engine V8 BMW, V8 Porsche, V-6 and V-8 Mercedes Benz and others with the technology of nickel-silicon coating of the cylinders
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Old 11-21-2017, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by altair47 View Post
The reason is initially in the wrong engine break-in period. With cast-iron sleeves, the incorrect running-in can lead to the combustion of the combustion chamber and a significant reduction in the engine life. In the case of J37, this is the nickel-silicon coating of the cylinders, which, if not correctly run-in, substantially wipes out the compression and oil-ring rings, which leads to oil consumption. At absolutely not right break-in and overheating, even scratches on the walls of the cylinder are possible which leads to extreme oil consumption, which leads to the replacement of a short block. Similar problems with the engine V8 BMW, V8 Porsche, V-6 and V-8 Mercedes Benz and others with the technology of nickel-silicon coating of the cylinders
Sorry if something does not understand, I translate through Google translator. I can clearly explain in Russian
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Old 11-22-2017, 03:03 PM
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well, i just stopped in to talk to the service department at my dealer. service adviser said they have to start the oil consumption test with the following procedure: oil change performed by them, followed by 3 check-ins at 1,000 mile intervals. i told him that the oil has just been changed, but he insisted that if i want acura's participation in fixing the issue, they have to perform the oil change. anyone who's done this can confirm?

anyway, i have an appointment for next saturday for the B12 service even though i already changed the oil and both air filters. he also reiterated that 1quart in 1000 miles will be considered normal per acura.
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Old 11-23-2017, 09:44 AM
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Yes, regardless of manufacturer, if you want an oil consumption test run, you must have the dealership perform an oil change at the inception of the test.
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Old 12-01-2017, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez View Post
Yes, regardless of manufacturer, if you want an oil consumption test run, you must have the dealership perform an oil change at the inception of the test.
going in tomorrow. wish me luck.
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Old 12-02-2017, 12:46 PM
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At 20% oil life remaining, I took a turn and my Low Oil flashed on my Nav system, but no engine light, it flashed but went off really quick. I have noticed louder Valve train noise the last two weeks but just figured it is getting colder out. Pulled the oil level stick. Bone dry. I had to add just over 2.5 Quarts. In 5500 miles. About 1 Quart every 2200 miles. So no where close to the 1 Quart per 1000 mile issue.

I read on some other threads about using European Castrol EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4 Full Synthetic Motor Oil. So I bought a jug and will change the oil and monitor the results of consumption my next oil change.

Also I am at 192000 miles. This is the first time this has happened / noticed.
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Old 12-02-2017, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by deanoatkinson View Post
At 20% oil life remaining, I took a turn and my Low Oil flashed on my Nav system, but no engine light, it flashed but went off really quick. I have noticed louder Valve train noise the last two weeks but just figured it is getting colder out. Pulled the oil level stick. Bone dry. I had to add just over 2.5 Quarts. In 5500 miles. About 1 Quart every 2200 miles. So no where close to the 1 Quart per 1000 mile issue.

I read on some other threads about using European Castrol EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4 Full Synthetic Motor Oil. So I bought a jug and will change the oil and monitor the results of consumption my next oil change.

Also I am at 192000 miles. This is the first time this has happened / noticed.

i just returned from the dealer, and i'm officially on the oil consumption test. the test paperwork attached to the work order has a paragraph on it that if the consumption is a quart for every 1,000-3,000 miles then the service dept should contact acura to see if additional diagnostics are available. in other words even though they consider 1qt in 1,000 miles normal, they are open to looking into issue further if the consumption is as little as 1qt in 3,000 miles.
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Old 12-03-2017, 07:17 PM
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Make sure it's not filled above the upper line after the oil change. Some have reported this happening with some dealers so that after 2K miles, the oil level is still at the "normal" mark, even though the car has already used oil.

One thing that everyone (who experiences some consumption) seems to experience, which probably offers a clue as to why some 3.7s use oil, is that the oil consumption seems to accelerate as more miles pile up after an oil change. In other words, there may be little or no oil usage for the first 2-3K miles after a change, but then greater oil consumption as the car accumulates additional miles after that point.
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Old 12-04-2017, 12:14 PM
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^^^ In my experience the consumption rate seems to be linear after the oil change. Prior to my first (and only, so far) oil change (at about 5300 miles on that oil) I had added 1.5 qts, and it was down about 1/2 qt when I had the oil changed. I added 1/2 qt at about 1400 miles after the change. So far the oil level hasn't dropped to the point it would need another 1/2 qt.
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JM2010 SH-AWD View Post
One thing that everyone (who experiences some consumption) seems to experience, which probably offers a clue as to why some 3.7s use oil, is that the oil consumption seems to accelerate as more miles pile up after an oil change. In other words, there may be little or no oil usage for the first 2-3K miles after a change, but then greater oil consumption as the car accumulates additional miles after that point.
This is true for my '11 MDX. The engine loss 1/2 quart for the first 1600 miles after oil change. Another 1/2 quart on the next 900 miles. Another 1/2 quart on the next 800 miles. Then 1 1/2 quart on the next 1400 miles. In 4700 miles, I lost 3 quarts. The phenomenon does not make sense if the rings are stuck or cylinders scoring otherwise the oil consumption would be uniformed. It seems like something caused the oil to degrade rapidly, and by 3000 mark, the oil is completely pitch black.
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by nzone View Post
This is true for my '11 MDX. The engine loss 1/2 quart for the first 1600 miles after oil change. Another 1/2 quart on the next 900 miles. Another 1/2 quart on the next 800 miles. Then 1 1/2 quart on the next 1400 miles. In 4700 miles, I lost 3 quarts. The phenomenon does not make sense if the rings are stuck or cylinders scoring otherwise the oil consumption would be uniformed. It seems like something caused the oil to degrade rapidly, and by 3000 mark, the oil is completely pitch black.
Right, my oil is black by the time it's ready for a change. Other cars I've owned are a dirty brown when it's time for a change, but not black. I'm wondering whether that points to a ring sealing issue, allowing combustion gases to get past the rings and turning the oil black.
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by JM2010 SH-AWD View Post
Right, my oil is black by the time it's ready for a change. Other cars I've owned are a dirty brown when it's time for a change, but not black. I'm wondering whether that points to a ring sealing issue, allowing combustion gases to get past the rings and turning the oil black.
It also depends upon what oil you're using; here are two examples:
  • Mobil 1 contains an additive package which darkens to virtual black with the application of heat; even in a brand new engine, Mobil 1 looks black in about 2,000 miles, even though it can typically go another 10,000 miles or more before it becomes unsuitable for the engine.
  • Castrol Edge doesn't darken with heat; I've seen this oil still amber in color after 12,000 miles, however, the UOA indicated the oil was very near exhaustion.
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Old 12-04-2017, 04:12 PM
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^^Thanks. I'm using the blend they put in it at the dealer.
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez View Post
It also depends upon what oil you're using; here are two examples:
  • Mobil 1 contains an additive package which darkens to virtual black with the application of heat; even in a brand new engine, Mobil 1 looks black in about 2,000 miles, even though it can typically go another 10,000 miles or more before it becomes unsuitable for the engine.
  • Castrol Edge doesn't darken with heat; I've seen this oil still amber in color after 12,000 miles, however, the UOA indicated the oil was very near exhaustion.
All motor oil changes color through heat cycle, not disputing that fact. I have used Pennzoil Ultra Platinum (Pennzoil Ultra before), the oil would turn pitch black in the MDX while the same oil put in Odyssey would still be light brown color for 12-months. The Quaker State Ultimate that I did one cycle on the MDX turned pitch black, and the Mobil 1 Annual Protection that I am using now turned pitch black. The Castrol Edge 0W-40 that I put in the MDX right after I flushed the engine with BG turned dark amber in first 200-300 miles. My guess is soot that is causing the oil to turn pitch black, but how? Through EGR? EGR is not fully functional? The scoring in the cylinder wall is too large to allow soot to leak through it? But I do know, I would only losing about 1 to 1.5 quart if I change the oil at 3000 miles mark.
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:23 AM
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My wife's Honda Accord had the same problem, there was a recall on her car (2008) and we got lucky that the dealer we go to reread the bulletin. They did the consumption test and fixed it right away, not sure what they did but it's running well now. Honda AKA Acura knows this has been a problem in the past, I wouldn't accept any settlement from them short of full value of your car, and lifetime warranty on the whole dam car. They have already been sued over this.
http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...-burning-claim
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Old 12-06-2017, 05:05 PM
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^^ Correct, but this was with a different engine series and a different problem. While there has been a lot of speculation and supposition among 3.7 TL owners as to why some of our TLs use oil, there's been no consensus as to the cause of the issue. But the 3.7 V6 is different from your wife's Accord motor (and virtually all other Honda motors) in that it has silicon (not steel) cylinder liners. My understanding is that the issue with the 8th Gen Accords was due to a known piston ring problem. Generally, old usage among most Honda and Acura products is extremely rare, including our former '03 Accord that had 203K miles on the clock when we sold it.
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Old 12-06-2017, 09:47 PM
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Burns exactly 1qt per 1k miles

Ive owned my 12 TL 3.7 since Dec of 2014 when I bought it with 18k miles. When the odometer hit 32k miles, the car began burning oil like crazy. The first 1k miles after the oil change, the car only burns 1/2qt . Every 1k miles after that it consistently burns exactly 1 qt. It now has 68k miles.

I never reported it to the dealer since all the threads at the time stated they donít do anything to rectify the issue if itís within the 1qt per thousand miles.
Ive kept accurate records reflecting this, but there is probably nothing that can be done as the car is out of warranty and I didnít report it earlier.
Iím taking the car in for the torque converter judder update and Iím wondering if I should even bother saying anything sine I donít live near a dealer and itíll be more of a pita to go back after every 1k miles. I love the car beside this issue, other than a tea kettle whistle sound that itís been making after it warms up. From everything Iíve read it sounds like a bad propellor shaft. Lol maybe I just end up trading it in which is a shame because I love it otherwise.
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Old 12-07-2017, 02:37 PM
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^^ Why is your car out of warranty? Powertrain is 6 years, 70K miles, I believe. Get it in before that expires; if you are using a quart per 1000, they should do something for you.
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Old 12-07-2017, 09:54 PM
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I’ll have them look at it then, but what I think they’re saying is that 1qt per 1000 miles falls within the acceptable allowance
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:37 AM
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That is their standard. I'd have it checked out and do the oil consumption test before your warranty expires. If it checks out at 1 qt/1000, there's nothing to do, obviously. But if it's over that, they should take care of you. Good luck.
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Old 12-09-2017, 11:01 AM
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Interesting that 1 qt. per thousand miles is still the auto industry standard for acceptable oil consumption. It's been the same for decades. Yet presumably today's engines have tighter tolerances.
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Old 12-09-2017, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by dregsfan View Post
Interesting that 1 qt. per thousand miles is still the auto industry standard for acceptable oil consumption. It's been the same for decades. Yet presumably today's engines have tighter tolerances.
Well sort of. I've heard anecdotal reports of some manufacturers claiming as low as 600 miles per quart before they are willing to offer the owner any relief. Then there are other manufacturers, where they'll offer relief of some sort up at the two to three-thousand mile per quart consumption level.
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Old 12-10-2017, 04:32 PM
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Thanks.. it’s going in on Wednesday so I’ll keep you posted. I’m thinking i’m Just going to be sol. Our 2014 mdx was out of its warranty by 2 weeks and they wouldn’t help me out with a shock absorber issue we had. Not that I expected them to, but it may have swayed me to purchase from them in the future. When I spoke with them on the phone this past week they didn’t even want to honor the tc judder update. They also stated that they have no knowledge of acura extending the warranty on the torque converter to 8 years/105k miles (which is the whole reason I thought there was the update)..
It’ll be interesting to see how much they’ll try charging me for the propeller shaft fix.. I still love our Acura’s, but the service I’ve received from piazza acura of reading has been less than satisfactory.
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Old 12-14-2017, 04:03 AM
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American Honda is extending the warranty coverage on the piston rings and pistons for affected vehicles to 8 years from the original date of purchase or 125,000 miles, whichever comes first.

Acura will be issuing a service bulletin in the future, so stay tuned.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:50 PM
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I am hoping they release this soon my car is reaching that 8 years time line. I can definitely take my car in now to document this but I am afraid they may charge me
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Old 12-14-2017, 05:21 PM
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^They shouldn't charge you for the consumption test. Knowing this information, I'm going to watch mine more carefully. My 8 years is up next March.
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Old 12-14-2017, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by EE4Life View Post
American Honda is extending the warranty coverage on the piston rings and pistons for affected vehicles to 8 years from the original date of purchase or 125,000 miles, whichever comes first.

Acura will be issuing a service bulletin in the future, so stay tuned.
Thanks for the very helpful information. Any sense as to the timing of the service bulletin's release?
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Old 12-15-2017, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by JM2010 SH-AWD View Post
Make sure it's not filled above the upper line after the oil change. Some have reported this happening with some dealers so that after 2K miles, the oil level is still at the "normal" mark, even though the car has already used oil.

One thing that everyone (who experiences some consumption) seems to experience, which probably offers a clue as to why some 3.7s use oil, is that the oil consumption seems to accelerate as more miles pile up after an oil change. In other words, there may be little or no oil usage for the first 2-3K miles after a change, but then greater oil consumption as the car accumulates additional miles after that point.
that's right. it was significantly over-filled after i left the dealer. by over a quart. i couldn't even tell where the oil level was, as the entire 'bullet' at the end of the dipstick was covered in oil. i returned to them the next day to correct this, but it's still over-filled; by half a quart or so.
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Old 12-15-2017, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by JM2010 SH-AWD View Post
^They shouldn't charge you for the consumption test. Knowing this information, I'm going to watch mine more carefully. My 8 years is up next March.
When I started mine, I wasn't charged for the act of checking the oil level every 1000 miles, but I was charged the ~$40 or so for the initial conventional oil change that they start the oil consumption test with.
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:35 PM
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My 09 sits at 160k miles and I add about a quart/1000miles. I would say the situation got worse after 80k miles or so. Now the car always has a 5qt oil bottle in the trunk.
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jangkai View Post
My 09 sits at 160k miles and I add about a quart/1000miles. I would say the situation got worse after 80k miles or so. Now the car always has a 5qt oil bottle in the trunk.
Sell a car, or rebuild an engine =(
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by altair47 View Post
Sell a car, or rebuild an engine =(
Sometimes it's just replacing the piston rings $ 300, two head gaskets $ 100, the head bolts $ 100 + labor, in most cases it's replacing the short block, pistons, rings, gaskets and bolts $ 2000 + labor
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Old 12-22-2017, 12:29 PM
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I'm not worried about it. I look at it like this, I am constantly adding fresh oil, so the engine is happier
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