Jrc6MT

Thank you, Master Yoda lol!

thorpedo

See the attached job aid for the oil consumption test. This was from September 2016 so it may no longer be relevant. But I would definitely print this out and take it with you next time.

from page 2: "If the oil consumption rate is 1 quart or more every 1,000 miles, follow the normal troubleshooting procedures including any applicable service bulletins."

digibrain

Very interesting discussion going on here! I own a 2009 TL SW-AWD tech package (J37 engine) and it consumes oil at a rate of approximately 1 to 1.5 L every 1600 Km (1K mi) Other noticeable symptoms are soot deposit on the tailpipes and surrounding area (noticeable as the car is white) and an annoying piston knocking that happens when the engine is re-started 5 to 10 min after shutting it down. Knocking stops about 30 seconds into driving and it never knocks under any other driving conditions. Can anyone relate to this knocking symptom? There is no blue smoke and, of course, no oil leaks. I use 91 octane fuel, and Castrol 5-20 full synthetic oil, changing it according to the maintenance minder. I bought the car used, with 125,000 Km, so I don't know how well it was previously maintained. I'm now at 228,000 Km. Cylinder compression readings are very good (more than 270 psi in all cylinders). I love this car in every aspect except this pesky oil consumption issue. I intend to keep investigating the oil consumption issue and post any conclusions I may arrive to.

dinot

Thanks. I will take it with me. This is turning into a pain as they want to see 3 readings at 1000 miles apart.
I also mentioned earlier that they overfilled me with, if I had to estimate about 3/4 quart. Also, I didn't mention this....as I didn't notice right away. They didn't reset my maintenance minder. So my faith in this dealer is not very high as they can't seem to perform a simple oil change.

Thanks,

thorpedo

Take it to an Acura dealer and have them do the oil consumption test. If they can prove you burn 1 qt. per 1k miles then you have a good chance of getting assistance. Apparently the issue was with the rings. Reference the TSB if they claim the acceptable oil burn rate needs to be 1.5 qt. or greater.

Re: the knocking symptom, no I did not have the symptoms you described. Mine sounded like this all the time (see video). The dealer's theory was that the previous owner was not aware of the oil consumption issue and ran it dry, resulting in more significant damage. I don't buy this entirely, since my issue was a destroyed cam lobe, and all other lobes were pristine.

LostProphet

We are in the same boat man. I took my '12 TSX 2.4 to the dealership for an oil change and oil consumption test last week. Today I checked the oil level and the mark was almost as high as yours. I checked the invoice and it says they used 5 qts of oil when the owners manual says to use 4.2 qts, this 0.8 qt overfill worries me. I called the Acura advisor and he asked me if I let the car sit for at least 5 minutes before measurement and also said the invoice will never show decimals with exact quantities, they will round 4.2qt to 5qt, he also said I can bring the car back for a reading and if found high they can drain some oil or do the oil change over. I have an appointment to get the TL timing belt service but now that I see they can not do a simple oil change correctly scares me.
Or they always overfill all oil changes? or coincidentally when you request an oil consumption test?

mlody

I started my oil consumption journey today. We have 2014 TL CPO with 54k now. We purchased it when the car had around 29k miles few years ago. I read about this problem before, but didn't experience it until recently. Our last oil change was about 4000 miles ago and today, when I checked the level, the oil barely was at the low line on the dipstick. Like others, we need to get the readings at 1k miles intervals during the first 3k miles.

deanoatkinson

Teddybear

Fellow Canuks, i just got a letter from Acura Canada that acknowledges excessive oil consumption, and extends warranty from Nov 15 2018 for 6 months, with no mileage limit. After the 6 months, it's 8 year from purchase date, or 200,000 KM.
Guess im going to the stealership for oil consumption test.

dopeboy1

I also got this letter. Booked the oil change to start the test on december 17.

Teddybear

did they specify what the whole process would be? ie, how many tests, what level is normal? and do they charge for each visit?

dopeboy1

I only asked how they determine a fail or pass for excessive oil consumption. He said anything at or over 1litre of oil consumption for every 2000km. He also said that I only have to pay for the oil change. Then ill bring the car in every 2000km and they will measure the oil consumption.

So you only have to pay for an oil change. The 'test' itself is free. Ill ask more questions when I bring it in. Specifically how many times I have to bring it in.

Mina_Bekhit

I am in Canada but did not receive any letter. Strange.

Teddybear

Canada Post strike probably doest help. Are you the original owner? If not, they might not have your contact info updated.

Mina_Bekhit

I am a second owner but I bought it from Acura dealer and i believe all my information are registered with acura Canada. Will wait and see.

deanoatkinson

This has taken me about 4-6 oil changes to clean out enough of the carbon build up to stop burning the oil.

digibrain

In response to thorpedo's video of Nov 2nd, no, the knocking I hear on it isn't the knocking I was referring to. Yours sounds a bit like excessive valve/cam/follower noise or even piston rod. I was referring to pinging, aka detonation, which can be heard from inside the car, while driving, during the first minute or two of driving after having shut down the engine for about 10 minutes..
Much to my pleasant surprise, I received the warranty extension letter mentioned elsewhere in this thread. I am in Canada (GTA). The letter was post stamped Dec 5th, I received it Dec 6th, called Acura Customer service and a local dealer on the 7th and this morning (Dec 10th) I went for the first oil change as part of the oil consumption test. They told me 1 litre per 1500 km is their criteria for activating the warranty. We'll see how it goes in the next few weeks.

dyee

Does anyone have any issues with Acura denying doing the oil consumption test because of modifications? I have an intake and exhaust. Their argument was that it messes with the air fuel mixture ratio and so Acura will deny it.

Located in BC Canada .

dopeboy1

I had the oil change done to start the oil consumption test process last Monday. They didn't say anything to me at all. I have RV6 HFPCs and RV6 J-pipe.

The intake is questionable.... If i were you I would remove the intake, put the stock intake back on. Then if they still have a problem ask them to explain how a modified exhaust effects oil consumption (because it doesn't).

TLguy2013

I received the oil consumption letter on Dec 7th 2018. I was aware of the issue/ext warranty via my Acura dealer (Oakville, Ontario) before the letter.

'So far' I haven't experienced any issues with excessive oil consumption with this Car (2013 TL AWD tech, auto). However, I only have about 52k km on it now (~32k miles). My question is this: should I expect it to become an issue when the car gets older/more mileage on it? Or, does it only show up on certain cars? I only put about 10k km/year on the car.

I've had numerous Honda/Acura models over the years - going back to the 1st one -- 1992 Integra GS, 5sp (man, I miss that car - well actually I miss them all). The only Honda/Acura that I experienced what I'd call abnormal oil consumption is a 1999 Acura CL 2.3L, auto. But that was only about a litre every 2,000-2,500 km, so not really excessive in my opinion.

Does anyone have any thoughts or experience regarding the oil consumption issue showing up only at high mileage?

dinot

Just had my first "1000" miles reading. I took it in at 900 miles because I was already below the low level. I was concerned since my last oil change from the dealer seemed fishy because they significantly overfilled my MDX. I'd say by about 3/4 quart. The oil level was above the high level where the dipstick gets wider. So I was concerned with how they would measure my oil loss. They recorded 1 1/2 qt of oil loss. I think that this is actually an accurate estimate. I would think that this much oil loss would warrant a repair. This time, they only filled my oil to that halfway mark of the normal dipstick range. So my next 1000 mile test will get to the low level well before the 1000 mile mark.

This consumption test has been a huge pain in the a$$ for me. My MDX is not a daily driver. We use it on the weekends to drive to our vacation home. BUT, I burn at a lower rate on the highway, so I've not been using it for the weekends getaways and it took me 3 months to get to 1000 miles because I don't want to drive it on the weekends to the vacation home. (340 mostly hwy miles round trip)
I'd say that I burn about 3/4 qt on the highway. 1 1/2 qt for city driving. (per 1000 miles) This is using Mobil 1 5W-30. (Which after a few different oils seems to burn slower for me) The dino oil 20 weight that the dealer used will burn at a higher rate.

TLguy2013

I have to admit that I have very limited knowledge regarding the specifics of the Acura test procedure, etc. However, I do know that over-filling the oil on a car is not generally a good idea. Whether Acura had a valid reason for over-filling your MDX (I would ask them), I'm not certain why that would be the case though. They should want to have it 'within specs' and then run the test -- until the car is no longer 'within specs', IMHO. My impression is that each dealer is sort doing their own thing - based upon their interpretation of the directives from Acura. Again, not generally a good approach - since it leaves too much to interpretation, rather than a scientific/engineering approach.

As I mentioned in my previous post, to date I haven't noticed what I'd consider excessive oil consumption. Only about .5 Litre/1-2000 km.

My question is this - does it get worse as the car mileage increases or is restricted to certain engines made during a given manufacturing period?

dinot

My guess on why it was overfilled falls into either:

1) They were trying to cheat me on the test
2) The person performing the oil change wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed

I am leaning towards number 2 since they didn't reset the oil minder on the MID.

TLguy2013

I guess it could be both? The reset thing is annoying. I've found over the years that the techs often forget and I'd need to go back. Eventually I just started checking & doing it myself whenever I need to.

dinot

I am not so easy to give them that benefit. I always perform my own oil changes and this is my third Acura. I never forget to reset the MID. But for them, if all they do is oil changes all day, how do they forget to reset the MID?
Also, the picture below is my oil level 150 miles after the oil change of the first part of the oil consumption test. So I've already burned some oil. Look how far above the full line my oil level is. I've permanently removed that shroud that covers the front part of the engine bay because I have to add oil so often. This oil burning issue has really soured me to Acura. I bought this specifically for its supposed reliability. I bought it used and only afterwards did I discover that the previous owner had gotten a low oil warning. It wasn't listed in the carfax, The carfax did show a trip to the dealer the day after for an oil change. I found this issue by digging through the Nav screen. Also, a few months after I bought it (but before I discovered that low oil warning logged in the computer), I noticed a ticking noise from the engine. I checked the oil and I was 2 qts below the low oil level. So I have this vehicle and I don't trust it at all. I don't know if those two low oil conditions caused any damage. I'd dump this vehicle but I have a moral dilemma about dumping my problems onto someone else.

Dbuck

TLguy2013

I don't know if there's a way to know if you will have the problem in the future - that's what I'm trying to figure out too.
In your case it's a bit more urgent because you're at the 8 year limitation. Is there a local mechanic you know/trust that can do some testing on the car - maybe a leak-down test or similar would help? It might give you some idea of what's going on with this issue.

Dbuck

TLguy2013

Changing the oil at closer intervals would possibly help mitigate some of the problem but if the engine is consuming oil it's still going to consume oil no matter when you change the oil. Having said that, I rarely let me oil go beyond the 40% before I service the car.
Is the mechanic at Acura is saying that he thinks it needs the piston/rings done now? Or is he just saying that would likely be the work to be done - 'if' there is a confirmed oil consumption issue after a test? Personally, I'd let the other mechanic do a compression/leak down test and see what comes up. He may have other ideas/suggestions. You may be able to get the warranty co to cover it if necessary - especially since you say you have the maintenance records. I'd also try to push Acura a little - you never know what you might get from them. The letters just started coming out - so you could plead that there was no way you could've gone thru the testing earlier. (Hey, you never know until you try!)
The other option is to do the oil changes at shorter intervals like the tech suggested: then see what happens. If Acura won't cover the engine work & the other warranty co doesn't stand behind you, then driving the car to see what the consumption is like, isn't the worst option. You can evaluate better with some time, and maybe the consumption won't be too bad at all. If it's only a 1/2 Qt every 1000 mi - that would be pretty acceptable in my opinion. I've had high performance cars use more than that much and more, and it wasn't a problem. If you like the car, drive it for a while until you have a better idea what, if any, problem(s) you might be facing. It may turn out to be a minor thing.

Dbuck

TLguy2013

I recently posted these comments on the MDX thread and thought they might apply here too .
TLguy2013
= = = = =
Recently went to talk to a couple of mechanics about the oil consumption issue & how to tell (possibly) if the vehicle you own or are you're looking to purchase has the oil consumption issue.
Their recommendations...
1. Look closely at the tailpipes - if there's a significant build up of carbon on them investigate further. Specifically - wipe your finger on the inside of the chrome piece and if there is 'a lot' of oily residue you are likely looking at a 3.7 with the oil consumption issue. On my TL I can usually clean the dry residue off completely when I wash the car. My car has no oily residue at all. To date, this car hasn't developed the issue (fingers crossed).
2. Examine the oil on the dipstick closely. This works better with a car that hasn't had it's oil changed in awhile - i.e., > 1 month. If the oil looks too clean it's an indication the oil has been refreshed regularly. (Not really relevant if you own the car currently)
3. As someone mentioned in the MDX thread - smell the oil. It can reveal if there's some issue going on.
4. The mechanics both agreed that if you're really suspicious and want to investigate more - a compression test could be helpful.

Both these guys are experienced, skilled technicians and one is an Acura tech & MDX owner too, so he should have solid advice IMO.

Kajan_8

I am going to let everyone know that i did not fully read the forum ( skimmed through it )

i just wanted to let everyone know that Acura (in canada) is conducting the oil consumption quietly, they only mention it if you ask and where i am (Toronto) they will only do this until May of 2019. hope this helps some one.

my car is currently at 240,000 KM and it is a 2011 SH-AWD and i am currently going through the process

Thank you.

Dbuck

TLguy2013

As oil gets older and goes through more engine cycles the various chemicals break down. The sulphur smell that is always present in petroleum products tends to get stronger as oil ages (new oil has a more sweet odour). Of course, if the oil has been changed recently, or is constantly being refreshed by adding oil (as with a 3.7 that has the oil consumption issue), the oil will have less of the sulphur smell. No idea whether the car (a particular one or all) will develop the issue - there's simply no reliable way that I'm aware of to predict. Naturally you'd have to think a well maintained car should be less prone - my view is it can't hurt to properly maintain a car. Years ago, an engine rebuild at 100k miles was pretty much accepted as natural. Now, esp. with Honda and/or Toyota products, we tend to expect at least 200k mi or more of reliable service.

WRT oil weight is a good question - I've seen the idea mentioned on other boards too. I think most mechanics would recommend sticking with manufacturer's recommendations - they built the engine so they should know.

TLguy2013

I just posted this on another thread but it might be useful here too.
= = = =
Since I don't own an MDX [yet] I can't comment specifically on the extended warranty Acura Canada is offering on that car, but, I do have a 2013 TL with the 3.7 litre engine. I have also been told verbally that the warranty applies to the MDX - here in Canada at least. This is my understanding of what current situation is on this matter, so do your own research.

The letter I rec'd on Dec 7, 2018, dated Nov 2018, from Acura indicates that the warranty extension for the TL is 6 months from Nov 15th 2018 - with NO mileage limit. After that initial warranty period, the warranty is extended and changes to the 8 year or 200k km limit - ~120k miles, (whichever comes 1st). The 8 year clock should start from the initial In Service Date (ISD) of the vehicle. So when the car was 1st registered for the new car warranty (i.e., Jan 1, 2012) the clock ticks from then - so in this example - until Jan 1, 2020 or 200,000 km, whichever comes 1st. The warranty is also transferred to subsequent owners.

I can't see why the MDX extended warranty would be any different but I can't say for certain.

IF you happened to buy a demo model new the warranty should have been registered from the date you received the car, and the actual mileage recorded then. The extended warranty coverage may be extended by the amount of mileage on the car when you received it - for example, if the car was a demo with 1,500 km on it when you took delivery, the 200k km limit may be extended to reflect the mileage when you took delivery (201,500 km). However, sometimes the dealer doesn't register the ISD properly and you'd have to prove the mileage as to when you got the car (it should be on the original documentation).

Acura USA could have different limitations & terms so I'd check with them and not assume anything. In a case of a used TL (or possibly MDX) the owner/purchaser should have until May 15, 2019 (6 months from Nov 15th 2018, regardless of the mileage). If you haven't received a letter, check with Acura Canada (or USA) to make sure the extension applies to your car.

In any case, I'd suggest talking to your favourite Acura dealer ASAP - if you feel you have the oil consumption issue now. Again, I can't stress this enough, check with Acura. Also, not every dealer has the same knowledge or understanding of the warranty so be patient - and respectful. Finally, the service dept. is where you need to inquire - not a salesperson since they are unlikely to know the details. Even the service reception may not have all the details, so I'd suggest talking to the service manager or asst mgr.

EE4Life

See TSB 19-006 - Warranty Extension: Engine Oil Consumption Exceeds Client Expectations in the 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, and 2014 TSB threads.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Thanks!! Just out yesterday.

andysinnh

I posted this as a reply to the TSB thread, but thought I'd also mention it here. The TSB has within it a list of parts that would be required if a tear-down of the motor is required to address the consumption issue. Of interest is the fact they explicitly call out the -A01 version of the OEM oil filter. I find this very interesting because the -A02 variant has been out for over a decade and has been the primary filter used by dealers since then. The -A01 is made by Filtech, and the -A02 is made by Honeywell/Fram (or whomever owns them now). Not sure if this is relevant or not - I just found their parts recommendation interesting.....

lanechanger

My 2009 SHAWD TL w/ 185K kms has been going through almost a full 5 litres between changes since i bought it used (2nd owner) with 140k kms in 2014. Received my oil burning (L55 Campaign) letter in mid-Dec. Took it in early Jan and they explained that I had to pay for the oil change ($90). Acura process for the test is to drain/fill the motor w/ a new filter with bottled 5W20 oil only (no bulk oil and not synthetic). They stated that i should check it every fillup or every other fillup and to bring it in when the oil level drops to the min level on the dipstick. They will then top it back up to the max line - process needs to be repeated three times before they submit the details (how many kms driven between min/max oil level) to Acura for a decision on replacing the oil rings.

Expect my mileage to reach 190k kms by the time the diagnostic is done. To add to the problem, my check SHAWD system indicator came on a couple of days after the oil change and the dealership... coincidence i'm sure... Will post updates when i reach the various milestones.

LC

TLguy2013

Lanechanger
Five litres between oil changes seems excessive IMO. You took the car in early Jan 2019 - the 200k km limit only starts after the initial 6 month period, no limit on mileage (according to my read of the Acura Canada letter from Nov. 2018). You should have no issues with the mileage on your car because of the no limit until May 2019 (6 months from Nov 2018 = to May 2019). Furthermore, if the dealer says anything about the mileage, ownership history, etc., the Acura letter indicates that the warranty includes the current owner regardless (bring the letter with you). As long as your car was never a write off, or sold as salvage you should be OK. Additionally, you started the process well before May 2019 so there shouldn't be any issue with running out of time.

Do you know the original in service (ISD) date for your car? It should be on a carproof, or the dealership can provide that to you. If the dealership isn't being co-operative then, personally, I'd talk to Acura area service rep. Best advice is be patient and respectful when dealing with service staff. They don't always know the details. Because of that, personally I'd deal only with the service manager or asst. service manager. When they do the original oil change be sure to review the oil level with the service mgr/asst mgr before you accept the car. Some have reported them over-filling the oil. I wish you good luck.