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Acura's Response to Excessive Oil Consumption

 
Old 08-29-2018, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez View Post
I have no idea what you're trying to say with that statement; can you elaborate?
on the Acura TL there is something called an MID (Multi information Display). This tells you various info about the car such as Outside temp, Oil contamination/Degradation %, Etc.. SO when I mention % I am specifically talking about My oil Degradation monitor went from 100% to 0% much slower with 5w30 than it did with 5w20. As the oil life fades, the % monitors shows a lower number. For example. 100% reflects new oil 0% reflect oil that needs to be changed. when I used 5w20, Usually it goes from 100% to 0% in about 3200miles. However When I used 5w30 it didnt reach 0% until about 5ooo miles. Then When I said Thinner oil (5w20) seems to shear more (get dirty or brown collecting microscopic pieces of metal and contaminant more dramatically. meaning just before I changed my oil, 5w30 was cleaner and more clean looking than my other 5w20.
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Old 08-29-2018, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mrphilipanderson View Post
on the Acura TL there is something called an MID (Multi information Display). This tells you various info about the car such as Outside temp, Oil contamination/Degradation %, Etc.. SO when I mention % I am specifically talking about My oil Degradation monitor went from 100% to 0% much slower with 5w30 than it did with 5w20. As the oil life fades, the % monitors shows a lower number. For example. 100% reflects new oil 0% reflect oil that needs to be changed. when I used 5w20, Usually it goes from 100% to 0% in about 3200miles. However When I used 5w30 it didnt reach 0% until about 5ooo miles. Then When I said Thinner oil (5w20) seems to shear more (get dirty or brown collecting microscopic pieces of metal and contaminant more dramatically. meaning just before I changed my oil, 5w30 was cleaner and more clean looking than my other 5w20.
Ummm, no, it doesn't work that way. The monitor in your car is a mileage based system and has absolutely no idea of the condition of your oil.
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Old 08-29-2018, 10:11 PM
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https://www.edmunds.com/car-care/oil...g-systems.html

No? it doesn't? Read this/ also feel free to contact acura and ask Because thats exactly what I did. And they confirmed thats how their system in our cars works.
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Old 08-29-2018, 10:14 PM
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i claim to be no expert, I just know what happened when i changed oils. And Before I chaged Oil I had many conversations with acura out of fear of what using a recommended oil would do because I heard so much conflicting info here on the forum. So my switch was founded on info directly from the car maker and its technicians. Call them! they are awesome. they will even research a problem and even correspond with R&D with your concenrs. They did for me.

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Old 08-30-2018, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mrphilipanderson View Post
https://www.edmunds.com/car-care/oil...g-systems.html

No? it doesn't? Read this/ also feel free to contact acura and ask Because thats exactly what I did. And they confirmed thats how their system in our cars works.
Maybe I didn't say it in words you understand; the OLM in your car has no actual idea what the condition of your oil is; all it knows is certain metrics have been met and it signals an oil change. If you use rot gut oil, then the system will indicate a change way too late, if you use the most perfect high-dollar oil for your engine, the system will call for a change too early. You can argue all you want, you clearly need some more education on the issue.
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Old 08-30-2018, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mrphilipanderson View Post
on the Acura TL there is something called an MID (Multi information Display). This tells you various info about the car such as Outside temp, Oil contamination/Degradation %, Etc.. SO when I mention % I am specifically talking about My oil Degradation monitor went from 100% to 0% much slower with 5w30 than it did with 5w20. As the oil life fades, the % monitors shows a lower number. For example. 100% reflects new oil 0% reflect oil that needs to be changed. when I used 5w20, Usually it goes from 100% to 0% in about 3200miles. However When I used 5w30 it didnt reach 0% until about 5ooo miles. Then When I said Thinner oil (5w20) seems to shear more (get dirty or brown collecting microscopic pieces of metal and contaminant more dramatically. meaning just before I changed my oil, 5w30 was cleaner and more clean looking than my other 5w20.
How does one get into that menu?
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Old 08-30-2018, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by silvervtec96 View Post
How does one get into that menu?
I believe the button says 'select' or something like that on it. Its on the right side of the steering wheel in between the up and down arrow buttons. Keep pressing it and it will change what info is being displayed on the MID.
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Old 08-30-2018, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by dopeboy1 View Post
I believe the button says 'select' or something like that on it. Its on the right side of the steering wheel in between the up and down arrow buttons. Keep pressing it and it will change what info is being displayed on the MID.
Haha, yes, that display. I was thinking of the secret menus the dealers get into with more information about the car. I know when I picked up my car from the dealer they were going through other screens on the navi screen.
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Old 08-31-2018, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mrphilipanderson View Post
on the Acura TL there is something called an MID (Multi information Display). This tells you various info about the car such as Outside temp, Oil contamination/Degradation %, Etc.. SO when I mention % I am specifically talking about My oil Degradation monitor went from 100% to 0% much slower with 5w30 than it did with 5w20. As the oil life fades, the % monitors shows a lower number. For example. 100% reflects new oil 0% reflect oil that needs to be changed. when I used 5w20, Usually it goes from 100% to 0% in about 3200miles. However When I used 5w30 it didnt reach 0% until about 5ooo miles. Then When I said Thinner oil (5w20) seems to shear more (get dirty or brown collecting microscopic pieces of metal and contaminant more dramatically. meaning just before I changed my oil, 5w30 was cleaner and more clean looking than my other 5w20.
Just so we're all on the same page on this, I did a little research and the only official Acura statement for the Gen 4 TL Oil Life Monitor (OLM) is as follows:
  • Your vehicle displays engine oil life and maintenance service items on the multi-information display to show you when you should have your dealer perform engine oil replacement and indicated maintenance service.
  • Based upon the engine operating conditions, the onboard computer in your vehicle calculates the remaining engine oil life and displays it as a percentage. (emphasis mine)
What this means is if you use the exact oil Acura recommends for your car, the OLM can make a fairly accurate GUESS as to the condition of your oil. However, if you put low quality oil in the engine, then the guess will be incorrect as it will call for an oil change long after the oil is exhausted, the flip side of course is if you use a higher quality oil than Acura calls for, the OLM will call for an oil change too early. Regardless, the OLM has absolutely no idea of the actual condition of the engine oil, contamination level, level of shear (which has nothing to do with oil color), or anything else. The technology to allow a car to analyze it's own oil is simply not available yet and may never be.
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Old 08-31-2018, 10:30 AM
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[QUOTE=horseshoez;16289138]Maybe I didn't say it in words you understand; the OLM in your car has no actual idea what the condition of your oil is; all it knows is certain metrics have been met and it signals an oil change. If you use rot gut oil, then the system will indicate a change way too late, if you use the most perfect high-dollar oil for your engine, the system will call for a change too early. You can argue all you want, you clearly need some more education on the issue.[/QUOTE

I never said the car was an intelligent being that could sit and ponder oil degradation. WTF???! i will continue to argue. My statements are supported by Acura Client relations. If you feel the info I have provided is not accurate TELL THEM their MID indicator and oil monitoring system doesn't know jack about oil quality. And all you did was spout EXACTLY what I mentioned before and the article Acura gave me that supports their product. how is your expertise any different from mine? If you read incorrectly, thats ot my fault. I didn't say the car comments on shear and such. That was MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE when i mentioned that. What my EYES saw when I changed the oil. oil life is evaluated by the car evaluating engine conditions. SUBTLE Performance decreases occur as oil life decreased. THATS HOW THE CAR SUGGESTS THE %. That was my original statement.

Last edited by mrphilipanderson; 08-31-2018 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 08-31-2018, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by silvervtec96 View Post
Haha, yes, that display. I was thinking of the secret menus the dealers get into with more information about the car. I know when I picked up my car from the dealer they were going through other screens on the navi screen.
ah there are tons. You can do a self diagnostic check of all infotainment system components, change the guide lines on your rear view camera, etc....all by tapping in to the hidden menus.
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Old 08-31-2018, 11:58 AM
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[QUOTE=mrphilipanderson;16289961]
Originally Posted by horseshoez View Post
Maybe I didn't say it in words you understand; the OLM in your car has no actual idea what the condition of your oil is; all it knows is certain metrics have been met and it signals an oil change. If you use rot gut oil, then the system will indicate a change way too late, if you use the most perfect high-dollar oil for your engine, the system will call for a change too early. You can argue all you want, you clearly need some more education on the issue.[/QUOTE

I never said the car was an intelligent being that could sit and ponder oil degradation. WTF???! i will continue to argue. My statements are supported by Acura Client relations. If you feel the info I have provided is not accurate TELL THEM their MID indicator and oil monitoring system doesn't know jack about oil quality. And all you did was spout EXACTLY what I mentioned before and the article Acura gave me that supports their product. how is your expertise any different from mine? If you read incorrectly, thats ot my fault. I didn't say the car comments on shear and such. That was MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE when i mentioned that. What my EYES saw when I changed the oil. oil life is evaluated by the car evaluating engine conditions. SUBTLE Performance decreases occur as oil life decreased. THATS HOW THE CAR SUGGESTS THE %. That was my original statement.
So you're saying you didn't write the things you wrote? Okay, whatever.
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Old 08-31-2018, 12:03 PM
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[QUOTE=horseshoez;16290025]
Originally Posted by mrphilipanderson View Post
So you're saying you didn't write the things you wrote? Okay, whatever.
wE AGREE TO DISAGREE. SO YEAH "WHATEVER".
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Old 08-31-2018, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mossman77 View Post
Why did you replace your head covers? And I think you may be experiencing a "placebo effect". The oil consumption is caused by a design flaw in the oil control rings. If you are in fact experiencing less burn, then I'm afraid it's likely short lived.
I replaced both front and rear head cover gaskets after discovering that a little bit of oil was leaking through the gaskets. Before, my exhaust pipes used to be black full of carbon and now after changing gaskets and PCV valve there is for sure less carbon buildup on the tips, also changed oil to Royal Purple 5w-20. Placebo or not I can see real difference.
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Old 08-31-2018, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by LostProphet View Post
I replaced both front and rear head cover gaskets after discovering that a little bit of oil was leaking through the gaskets. Before, my exhaust pipes used to be black full of carbon and now after changing gaskets and PCV valve there is for sure less carbon buildup on the tips, also changed oil to Royal Purple 5w-20. Placebo or not I can see real difference.
Ive heard good things about Royal purple. I may give it a try .
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Old 08-31-2018, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mrphilipanderson View Post
Ive heard good things about Royal purple. I may give it a try .
And then you can try Scamzoil, and then Eneos, and then Total Unobtanium.
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Old 08-31-2018, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez View Post
And then you can try Scamzoil, and then Eneos, and then Total Unobtanium.
Why are you raining on everyone's parade? Did you have a week?
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Old 08-31-2018, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mrphilipanderson View Post
Why are you raining on everyone's parade? Did you have a week?
Nope, just your parade.
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Old 08-31-2018, 08:09 PM
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This oughtta be good.
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Old 08-31-2018, 09:00 PM
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Red face

Originally Posted by mrphilipanderson View Post
Why are you raining on everyone's parade? Did you have a week?
*period
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Old 09-05-2018, 01:28 PM
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I found the conversation about a higher-viscosity oil producing a longer oil-change interval very interesting. I've been working on cars since the mid-70's, and find that the useful life of oil between changes depends on a whole lot of factors. In the "old days" before maintenance minders, oil analysis testing companies, etc, you'd typically do 3k mile changes just to make sure you did it frequently enough. These days the cars' computers try to analyze factors that contribute to oil degradation. From one of the Honda sites I visited long ago, the factors that the maintenance minder takes into account include engine operating conditions such as speed, engine temperature, ambient temperature, time, and vehicle use to determine when an oil change and regular maintenance is necessary. It seems pretty logical to bring all those into play, and the Honda system looks at all of these.

How does this come into play with higher viscosity oil (i.e 5W20 to 5W30)? First off one could conclude higher viscosity oil runs a bit cooler (maybe). Or one could say the conditions during a particular period are different than the previous one (colder outside, maybe longer/shorter trips being done with the car, etc). So overall, I'd guess that the only way one could deduce a longer OCI with a higher viscosity oil would be to do it over a few years - so you bring in different seasons, different driving conditions, etc.. If the OCI is longer after that time, then you have a result. But trying to map 1-2 oil changes to a trend is probably not quite valid.

Just my $.02.....

andy
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Old 09-05-2018, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by andysinnh View Post
I found the conversation about a higher-viscosity oil producing a longer oil-change interval very interesting. I've been working on cars since the mid-70's, and find that the useful life of oil between changes depends on a whole lot of factors. In the "old days" before maintenance minders, oil analysis testing companies, etc, you'd typically do 3k mile changes just to make sure you did it frequently enough. These days the cars' computers try to analyze factors that contribute to oil degradation. From one of the Honda sites I visited long ago, the factors that the maintenance minder takes into account include engine operating conditions such as speed, engine temperature, ambient temperature, time, and vehicle use to determine when an oil change and regular maintenance is necessary. It seems pretty logical to bring all those into play, and the Honda system looks at all of these.

How does this come into play with higher viscosity oil (i.e 5W20 to 5W30)? First off one could conclude higher viscosity oil runs a bit cooler (maybe). Or one could say the conditions during a particular period are different than the previous one (colder outside, maybe longer/shorter trips being done with the car, etc). So overall, I'd guess that the only way one could deduce a longer OCI with a higher viscosity oil would be to do it over a few years - so you bring in different seasons, different driving conditions, etc.. If the OCI is longer after that time, then you have a result. But trying to map 1-2 oil changes to a trend is probably not quite valid.

Just my $.02.....

andy
I've been wrenching on cars since the 1970s as well (and have even worked for a few manufacturers over the years as a consulting engineer); your thoughts are well expressed and reasonable. For my part, I don't believe I've ever seen any definitive engineering documentation which indicates heavier grade oils can go longer between oil changes. Have you seen any compelling evidence which supports one argument over the other?
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Old 09-05-2018, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez View Post
I've been wrenching on cars since the 1970s as well (and have even worked for a few manufacturers over the years as a consulting engineer); your thoughts are well expressed and reasonable. For my part, I don't believe I've ever seen any definitive engineering documentation which indicates heavier grade oils can go longer between oil changes. Have you seen any compelling evidence which supports one argument over the other?
Nope - just trying to speculate why an automated oil life monitor might behave differently with higher viscosity oil. To me, internal engine temperature may be the only plausible factor to impact this automated calculation. All the others appear to be external influences.......
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Old 09-05-2018, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by andysinnh View Post
Nope - just trying to speculate why an automated oil life monitor might behave differently with higher viscosity oil. To me, internal engine temperature may be the only plausible factor to impact this automated calculation. All the others appear to be external influences.......
Ahhh, the fact is, it won't. An oil monitor has exactly zero ability to react in a different manner based upon oil grade.
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Old 09-05-2018, 02:20 PM
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This conversation has turned into one I'd expect to see over at bobistheoilguy.
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Old 09-05-2018, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by losiglow View Post
This conversation has turned into one I'd expect to see over at bobistheoilguy.
RIGHT?! That what happens when you you converse with MASTERS of OIL consumption, especially noted masters that have distinguished careers in oil and matters of oil ANNNNNND matters of Oil monitors in modern cars.
I just sit back and listen and when i can, share my experience.
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Old 09-05-2018, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Mina_Bekhit View Post
How long have you been using 5w30?
For about 4 oil changes now
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Old 09-16-2018, 11:13 AM
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So my wife took our 2011 MDX into the dealer today for the oil consumption test.

Strike 1 - The $89 special of an oil change and tire rotation was $110 after "fees". More reason to never take my car to the dealer.

They mentioned that Acura typically wants to see 1.5 qt of loss per 1000 miles for them to authorize the repair (I am not sure how much I burn as I usually top off before 1000 miles). I'd guess that I am close to that 1.5qt. I know that my oil consumption greatly accelerates after 600 miles or so.
I've only gone that long twice.
1 time I added 1 qt after 1,454 mostly hwy miles.
1 time I added 1.5 qt after 1,154 local miles.

I need to bring it in 3 times after 1000 miles each.

Here is where I am livid. Since I don't trust dealers, I checked the oil level after my wife got it home from the dealer. As I suspected they might do, I am a good bit over the full mark. I'd say at least 1/2 qt over. So the test is stacked against me because even if I lose 1.5 quarts, my dipstick will only show 1qt low. I measured this with the car cold. (After it was sitting in my garage all night)

I am not sure if I should go straight to Acura with my complaint or back to the dealer. I am a laid back guy, but I am pretty ticked off right now.

I am even more ticked because this problem had occurred with the previous owner and Acura "hid" this. After I bought the car, I discovered the menu on the NAV screen where you can look at previous error messages and the previous owner had a low oil message. I saw from the Carfax that he took it to the dealer the very next day, but it only showed that he went in for an oil change. When I stumbled onto this problem, (after a few months of ownership), I was a bit over 2 qts low. No messages came up. I checked because I heard the valves ticking. So if I was over 2qts low and the low oil warning never came up, how low was it when the previous owner had the warning?

So ticked at Acura right now. This is my 3rd one and I can't ever see buying another one.

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Old 09-16-2018, 01:26 PM
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Any references I've seen, in this thread or elsewhere, state that Acura's standard for excess oil consumption is 1 qt per thousand miles, not 1.5 qts. So telling you 1.5 qts is BS.
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Old 09-16-2018, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by dregsfan View Post
Any references I've seen, in this thread or elsewhere, state that Acura's standard for excess oil consumption is 1 qt per thousand miles, not 1.5 qts. So telling you 1.5 qts is BS.
Thanks. I am still stewing over them overfilling and basically cheating my results in their favor. You'd think that the dealership would want to have this work as it is very labor intensive. I included a picture of my dipstick. Again, this was a cold engine on my driveway. I checked 3 times to make sure I wasn't misreading it. The oil level is halfway between full and the point where it gets wider.

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Old 09-16-2018, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by dinot View Post
Thanks. I am still stewing over them overfilling and basically cheating my results in their favor. You'd think that the dealership would want to have this work as it is very labor intensive. I included a picture of my dipstick. Again, this was a cold engine on my driveway. I checked 3 times to make sure I wasn't misreading it. The oil level is halfway between full and the point where it gets wider.
I believe the owener's manual require to turn the car on for several moments and then turn it off, let it settle for 5 to 10 mins and take your oil measurement. That may make a difference and it's the first thing the dealer will say of you brought up the issue of overfilling.
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Old 09-16-2018, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Mina_Bekhit View Post
I believe the owener's manual require to turn the car on for several moments and then turn it off, let it settle for 5 to 10 mins and take your oil measurement. That may make a difference and it's the first thing the dealer will say of you brought up the issue of overfilling.
I'll try that later on, but I thought that warmer oil shows higher.
But good idea on that. I'll try that later this afternoon as my wife has it right now.
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Old 09-16-2018, 05:37 PM
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Just checked after shutting the engine off for 10 mins and the level is still the same.
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Old 09-16-2018, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by dinot View Post
Thanks. I am still stewing over them overfilling and basically cheating my results in their favor. You'd think that the dealership would want to have this work as it is very labor intensive. I included a picture of my dipstick. Again, this was a cold engine on my driveway. I checked 3 times to make sure I wasn't misreading it. The oil level is halfway between full and the point where it gets wider.
I'd look for a cheap hand pump siphon and extract the excess oil through the dipstick tube. How much is "excess" is up to you
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Old 09-16-2018, 10:25 PM
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I think thatís a normal reading. I have a 3.5 TL and mine is exactly at that line. I checked mine in morning before starting the engine. Sometimes you pull that dipstick out and the oil trickles past the line. You gotta pull it out slowly.

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Old 09-17-2018, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Kinuto View Post


I think thatís a normal reading. I have a 3.5 TL and mine is exactly at that line. I checked mine in morning before starting the engine. Sometimes you pull that dipstick out and the oil trickles past the line. You gotta pull it out slowly.
I perform my own oil changes on all of my cars and I put in exactly what is stated in the owner's manual.
I know that the MDX will show the oil level exactly at that full line when I am done. I know since I have to check the oil 1-2 times/week. So I am intimately familiar with the dipstick on that vehicle.
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Old 09-17-2018, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by dinot View Post
I perform my own oil changes on all of my cars and I put in exactly what is stated in the owner's manual.
I know that the MDX will show the oil level exactly at that full line when I am done. I know since I have to check the oil 1-2 times/week. So I am intimately familiar with the dipstick on that vehicle.
So for this only occasion regarding the oil consumption test you got it done at the dealer? What kind of oil do you use? Iím running Castrol Edge Full Synthetic 0w20.
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Old 09-17-2018, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Kinuto View Post

So for this only occasion regarding the oil consumption test you got it done at the dealer? What kind of oil do you use? Iím running Castrol Edge Full Synthetic 0w20.
I run the same oil and it seems to be consumed at a much slower rate than Mobil 1 0W-20 in both of my J-Series engines. Not sure why.
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Old 09-18-2018, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Kinuto View Post

So for this only occasion regarding the oil consumption test you got it done at the dealer? What kind of oil do you use? Iím running Castrol Edge Full Synthetic 0w20.
I've tried a few different oils and the one that lasted the longest for me was Mobil 1 5W-30
Valvoline Maxilfe High Mileage 5W-20 burned the fastest.

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Old 09-18-2018, 11:10 AM
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Both of my vehicles with the J seem to consume Mobil 1 faster as well. About 2X the rate of Pennzoil Ultra-Platinum. After 5K miles, the TL consumes none of the Pennzoil but used to go through about half a quart of the Mobil 1. The Pilot (lots more miles) went through at least two quarts of Mobil 1 in only around 4K miles but barely 1qt of the Pennzoil. So with the Pennzoil, I pretty much never have to add any to either vehicle since by the time it gets low enough to add oil, it's time to change it anyways.

By the way, horseshoez and mrphil, I think you guys are kind of on the same page. I'm not sure if you meant the car could detect oil condition mrphil, but you're correct that it can attempt to determine the condition. Like horseshoez said, it's based on engine conditions like "revolutions, temperatures and time" to help determine change intervals, as the Edmunds article said. Which I think is a relatively good way to gauge it since those things can be significant to oil condition. For example, I can go about 7500 miles before I get to 10% while my wife Pilot can barely go 4000 miles before 10%. One time she only got to 3200 miles before 10% . She makes a lot of short trips while I keep the TL running for up to 300 miles at a time when I drive Uber on the weekend, never letting the engine cool and only shutting it off a few times when I have to wait for a few minutes. It would be cool if it could actually determine oil contamination by sensing particulate matter as well as oil condition (e.g. molecular condition from breakdown due to heat, oxidation, combustion byproducts, fuel dilution, etc.) but that would require some pretty sophisticated equipment. Currently you have to send out your oil to somewhere like Blackstone to get that information. If it has to be analyzed by specialized laboratory equipment, the feasibility of some sensor in the engine doing the same thing isn't likely.
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