compewterbleu

You are asking an Acura forum if Acura is a luxury brand. Of course you'll get a "Hell Yes!" You're asking on a thread that compewterbleu is allowed to post on and has already posted FOUR times on... that's a guarantee of both bias and that any dissenting opinions will be bashed and the posters called haters. And the other usual suspects showed.


A hit dog(a Technokitty in this case) will holla! LMAO! You know if you don't stop showing me so much love and affection I'm going to burst with elation. So make it FIVE times I posted.

Mods if you lock the thread do you promise to spank me too (hurt me)...oh behave *eyelashes batting flirtatiously*

saturno_v

Ohh please enlighten me about the great history of Audi......tell me what they were building in the 40's, the 50's, the 60's, the 70's......let me answer to you...ugly econoboxes, I remind you that I was born and raised in Europe so I remember very well the Audis of that time....

Sorry for that, I thought Audi took the same road of MB and BMW.....the seats of 3 Series and C Class are horrible...

ChaChaCharles

Just ordered an A5 Prestige last month (won't be built until Jan). Milano leather is NOT standard. It is $1000 upgrade. I also had to opt for the $8000 prestige package because that was the only package to get memory seats (I initially wanted to get the Premium Plus package with navi for $3000 less). After paying $50k+ for the car, I noticed the back of the front seats used netting for storage...I asked the salesman if the prestige package upgraded that, he said no. Where Audi did impress me is the use of a 8-speed automatic.

Technocat, I remember you saying you liked the A5 but didn't get one because you don't like 4 cylinder cars. Did you know that the 2010 models came with a V6 option?

This is the thing that makes me laugh about people and their "luxury brands." Most that buy an A4, 3 series, C class, etc. don't get them well equipped. The Audi dealer told me about 60% of A4's sold in Dallas are FWD and not AWD and with the premium package (standard). Same goes with the 3 series BMW. I actually had real leather in my 2006 328xi and quite a few times people would get in the car and noticed the difference in leather because they rarely see anyone upgrade it and most never knew BMW offered AWD because no one upgrades it due to cost. Now that's what I call "smart manufactured luxury" (we offer you everything you want because we're luxury, but you won't want to pay for it).

Aman

Good for you. Now welcome to 2010.

What they were building 40, 50, 60 years ago is completely irrelevant. When Honda first started making cars, they were complete POSes that broke down as often as the Germans. Now they're a household name for reliability.

To go with an even more recent example, Hyundai was building garbage as recently as five years ago. Now their entire lineup is stellar (with the debatable exception of the Accent).

You can't judge a car company by what they did in the past. By your logic then, Hondas break down all the time, Hyundais are the worst cars on the market, and Mercs are built like bricks

Get out from under that rock, man.

jasonwdp10

Milano leather may not be standard but the A5's standard leather is fine. It's not as soft, but much more durable than the TL's Milano leather.

As for the net seatbacks, I think it's more functional. Infiniti does the same thing with their cars.

To me, it doesn't necessarily mean they cut costs because I think the net is more functional than a small leather slip pocket.

Congrats on the A5 btw, I really wanted a 2010 A5 3.2 prestige but it was just too expensive for me at this time when it was optioned out. Though I can just drive my gf's anytime haha. Very fun car to drive. Maybe I'll get an S5 in the future.

ChaChaCharles

I did enjoy the test drive and can't wait for the car to be delivered. I wasn't complaining about the leather if that's what you're thinking. I was just correcting a guy that was trying to correct another guy haha.

And as for the netting seatbacks, it's not a huge issue because I never use them, just thought it was kind of an eyesore, but I don't plan on ever trying to squeeze people in the back seats. I did want to get the S5, but the car will be driven mainly by my fiancee and she thought the suspension was too stiff.

I was just discussing with a friend what makes a car luxury or not and we came up with a decently logical explanation. German cars are more luxurious than Japanese because you pay $50k+ for them, then a few years later you pay $10k+ for maintenance. Only people living the life of luxury would/should be doing that and that's why you see so many German cars from pre-2005 in such had shape on the roads now....they forget to do the $10k maintenance at the dealership and go to the little Mexican hole in the wall shop to patch her up so she can run for another year.

Mr Marco

YES! YES! YES! I'm going to copy this and tape it to the door of my Audi driving neighbors house. He could use a little education on the subject.
Very nice...The opposite of vanilla! KinkyLMAO

saturno_v

Don't flip-flop on me...we were talking about historical heritage and you accused me of "not having a clue" about Audi...I do have it indeed.......I agree about Hyundai, if they made a manual Genesis with a real permanent AWD system I woudl have bought it in a heartbeat.....however, again, we were talking about cachet and BMW and MB have much more than Audi in spades.......Audi is just a premium brand for VW at the same level of Infiniti, Acura or Lexus.

Thanks for clarify that...I'm pretty sure I heard that the A$ base leather is fake...

I'm pretty sure you did some test about the durability of the leather between Audi and Acura......please....

I agree...the net seat pocket are an eyesore and definitely not luxurious at all in appearance.....and I bet few square feet of net cost less than leather.....

JM2010 SH-AWD

You gotta love these kinds of statements. Audi owners can keep saying that to themselves when their water pump on a brand new S4 craps out. Now that's the kind of luxury Acura can only aspire to.

winstrolvtec

The thing is the areas where Acura is not on par with Tier 1 labeled brands has to do with Acura not choosing to do so, so that they can make a cheaper low cost alternative as part of their business strategy or design, not because of anything that actually makes the car bad or any worse in comparison. Where MB, BMW, and Audi are not on par, that has to do with very basic automotive criteria that many cars in the mainstream markets excel at over them.

jasonwdp10

My gf has had her A5 for 3 years now (I drive it often, almost daily), had my TL for about 6 months.

There's no wear on any part of her A5's leather, there's already wear on both front seat side bolsters for my TL. So yes i've done some "test"

Yes, It's real leather in the A5 so quit trying to sound like a smartass.

Ken1997TL

And my nine year old RL has zero wear on its leather, so i therefore conclude my RL to be three times as luxurious as your girlfriend's A5.

jasonwdp10

That's fine, my moms 03 sienna has no wear as well.

I think it was quite obvious my point was that I have seen audi's leather over time and it is quite strong. I am trying to explain it to to guy up there. Understand?

Ken1997TL

Oh I do. I just figured I'd just chime in with another pointless fact in this thread that revolves around perceptions and opinions.

jasonwdp10

lol thx

smarty666

Try using leather cleaner AND conditioner on a rEgular basis and it won't wear! Every month or two I do this and my TL's seats are not worn after 2.5 years! Stop being lazy and just take care of the seats and you won't have any wear issues for many many years!

And trust me, I've seen plenty of bad wear on Audi, BMW, and MB seats in only a few year old used vehicles on their lots so it happens to them as well if you don't take care of the seats, no matter what vehicle you have!

Ruby

Doesn't Audi make Lamborghini or am I just crazy?

jasonwdp10

I am using meguiars gold premium w/e leather cleaner. This thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/wash-wax-23/leather-seat-care-enough-795502/

I started first seeing scuffs after I got my car tinted. The tint guys need to kneel on my back seats (equivalent of someone sitting with a wallet or key in their pocket) to do the rear window and the rear seats have some permanent scuffs. Same for the front passenger seat. My friends lexus IS was fine after he got it tinted at the same place.

The side bolster just looks pretty used up. Maybe it's just the characteristic of this leather? See this thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=leather
and this thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=leather
and this thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=leather

So now I try conditioning it even more and i'm extra careful to not put too much weight on the side bolster when getting in the car. Kind of a hassle.

saturno_v

I had one of my friend in Canada using his old Legend (first series) as "heavy chore" car (he even used that car to transport his dogs), it was used as "learning" car for his younger brothers, etc... and, to my amazement, the leather had very little wear (and trust me he doesn't use any conditioner), nothing has basically failed in that car, even every little electronic gizmo (seats, window, mirrors, etc...)....finally at over 300K the transmission started to give up......

Who said that fake leather cannot be durable?? Maybe it could be even more durable but it's just the appearance that is not that appealing.....the seats of the C-Class, for example, feel like plastic....

Mr Marco

The leather in both my Acura's is more luxurious than my wife. But all three require regular conditioning.

SSGHutch

neilman

My comparison is to my Lexus...I agree with the comment amount about Acura being in the 'Premium' category...and my TL is definitely a true sport sedan. But it does fall short of being in the 'Luxury' category. The clunking noises, intermittent rattles, etc. just doesn't cut it for me and has been a disappointment. And that's putting aside all the other well documented problems I've had which I'm assuming were just an anomaly considering the general reliability of the brand. The Lexus is 4 yrs now...and running smooth as silk with not a single rattle.

BLEXV6

Yeah, that was 4 years ago, to be honest, I thought when I compared the TL to the ES350, the interior of the TL to me seemed to be of better quality, the Lexus had some flimsy interir bit's in paricular the glove box and the sunroof rattled, which my TL does not do, it felt cramped compared to the TL. I also compare my Co-workers Camry to the Accord, to me the Toyota takes a backseat in the interior. I had considered a Venza, nice car but the interior sucked. I think Toyota has lost focus of what got them to the top. Quality.

ductman

I have first hand experience with crap from Audi, had a 2002 a6 2.7 t and a 2010 Q5 that the transmission crapped out in 300 miles, vehicle was repurchased, just remember the check engine light is a no cost option, also great to be rid of the Q5, all the water pumps are crapping out, yes Audi didn't make them but THEY chose the supplier, I will take my half ass luxury 2010 Mdx over an Audi anyday,when you drive an Audi, you're just waiting for the dash to light up like a Christmas tree:thumbsdow

Howard804

We have owned three Audi's: a '98 A4/2.8L, an '03 A6/3.2L, and currently own an '07 A6 S-Line/3.2L (the wife's) in addition to my '10 TL SH-AWD Tech. While I realize that much of this is very subjective and a matter of taste, putting down Audi's as some kind of lesser brand is kind of silly. We have been very pleased with these vehicles and consider them all to be well within the definition of a "luxury brand" despite some earlier remarks from others. Legacy and age of the brand in my view has nothing to do with it. Overall, this is based on various reasons, including performance, styling, materials, fit/finish, etc. I have also owned an '05 VW Touareg 4.2L V8, which I would also put into this category for the same reasons (VW is considered a high-end brand in Germany for this and other models like the Phaeton.) In addition, I would put the interior of the A6 up against any similarly priced mass-produced sedan, bar none, while the A8 is has been reviewed by various publications and rated as a benchmark for luxury and performance for (non-exotic) mass-produced sedans. As far as the small coupe/sedan Audi first introduced in the US, BMW also started here the same way, while for years MB has been plagued with quality and reliability issues according to various surveys during the 80's and 90's. Also, does the wide use of MB in Germany as a taxi make it less of a luxury brand? Not likely. And while I have had mixed results from recalls to needed repairs on the Audis, the experience has been very positive, which as with any brand is partly affected by the dealer's CS Dept.

I have 3,000 miles on my TL after 60 days (with one 12-hour roundtrip Richmond, VA to Pittsburgh) and have been quite pleased so far. For my 6'5" / 265 lbs size, the interior and ride is quite comfortable, while the styling is sporty, attractive and relatively unique. The performance I would describe as "spirited" yet economical, especially for the price-point. While the German experience is still a notch above in my opinion (with some technical points a little better thought out and executed,) I have no complaints or reservations in referring to the TL as a luxury performance vehicle. It's a great car for the money that so far has been a very pleasant and fun experience. What else matters?

YetiTL

^^^you sir just are way too rational for this kind of debate!

compewterbleu

*tear trickling down my left cheek, voice cracking, and choking as I talk* That has got to be the one of the most most moving and insightful blogs. Thank you...

realgone

For the past six years until recently purchasing my 2010 TL I drove a 2004 G35 Coupe. I loved the car, but when it comes to luxury and comfort, Acura is way ahead of Infiniti. The greatest thing that the Infiniti's have going for them is performance. They are a great car to drive, however, they are cramped, even for me, and I am a small person. The seats are hard and uncomfortable and they do not even close to the comfort level of the TL. Sitting in the TL is like sitting on a couch. I test drove both and after test driving the TL and then sitting in the G37x, aesthetically it felt like I was in a way lesser car, especially the cheap looking NAV regardless of the salesman's praise of its touch screen functionality, but the G is fun to drive. I guess you could say that the new TL is a luxury-sport vehicle and the G is a sport-luxury vehicle, with the focus of the car being on the first word.

realgone

Who cares? Both are expensive to maintain and I can speak form personal experience that the Audi/VW's are not reliable. I had a VW product once, and I like the many other VW and Audi owners, had nothing but problems, the car was an unreliable POS. New engine and transmission at 60,000 miles.

It is true by the way, kinda, but it's factory is still in Italy and the head of the company since Audi's takeover are Italian Lamborghini insiders. I would doubt that Audi has much to do with design and creation of the vehicles engine. Audi bought Lamborghini in 1998 from Chrysler when their ownership ventures were unsuccessful in making the company profitable. Note that Audi is a subsidiary of VW, so essentially they are all VW's.

OperationDarkie

iTrader: (1)

Honestly I would say yes it is an semi luxurious car, but when it comes to reliability, Honda/Acura puts everyone else to shame, on my 2003 cl type s 6mt, only major thing I had done to it was...






















wait for it.....






































Timing belt/water pump.......friend of mine owns an audi TT, he has had his suspension replaced twice, and a fuel pump replaced and he has less miles than I do, I have 156k miles.

LessisBestmakingendsmeet

Seems Honda's CEO Takanobu Ito acknowledges Acura is not on par with Lexus or Mercedes Benz.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=119005&page=4

What are your plans for positioning the Acura brand?

We are having a lot of discussions about Acura and which way it should be going. And what we confirmed is that the brand direction should be smart premium, not top tier.

Among the technologies we have at Honda, we must apply those that symbolize our advanced performance technology and environmental technology. We call this "smart." We agreed that smart premium is what we should be targeting with Acura, not the upper-segment vehicles such as Lexus or Mercedes-Benz. We must apply advanced technologies which make our vehicle more fun to drive, achieve a more comfortable drive and high environmental performance.

jasonwdp10

Clear as crystal. Lets see how people on the forum take it.

To me, "Smart Premium" = luxury hondas. Always have been always will be, and that's exactly why I buy acuras. I don't think of it as any more and I don't want it to be.

saturno_v

Make sense...to me this means forget about dedicated RWD platforms and V-8 engines....so in this regard it is correct, Acura do not compete with top tier brands because it doesn't offer very high end cars.

It will continue to use platforms, suspensions and engines shared with Honda sprinkled with more technology and extra luxury appointments....and from a business standpoint I may agree with their decision especially considering the bleak medium term economic future.



But all of that it doesn't mean that your average 3 series with fake leather or an A4 is somewhat more "prestigious" than your Acura TL ....


The fact that Audi makes the R8 it doesn't increase the "cachet" of an A4.....

There is nothing wrong with that.....the Accord is not technologically inferior in its engineering and design than an A4 or a 3 Series.....many Audi models are luxury VW.....

compewterbleu

I like that, "Smart Premium."
With that said keep a look out for the haters, they smell positive talk about Acura/Honda like s shark smells blood in the water.

neilman

'Premium' makes sense...thanks for the quote from the Honda CEO which should put it to rest...but somehow I highly doubt it.

Also in line with another post about customer service quality...i have definitely NOT experienced 'luxury' service at the Acura dealer. It was actually worse than any non-luxury dealer I have dealt with.

saturno_v

I could say exactly the same thing about Audi service.....anything but "premium" (well, just the price)

saturno_v

As general observation I have to say that is becoming increasingly difficult to differentiate luxury or premium cars from mainstream vehicles (for any brand)...

20-30 years the differences were obvious and big...leather, air conditioning, any electronic gizmo, etc....

It took decades for the air conditioning and electric windows (at least in Europe) to trickle down to mainstream vehicles, the ABS was there in less than 10 years, the GPS became a common option in 5-6 years or so, the Xenon and LED lights spread like wildfire, the same with bluetooth and Mp3 player integration....now everyone wants premium features even in their econobox so the market reacts...

You take any full optional family sedan (Accord, Camry, Altima) with their plush and comfortable leather seats, electronic accessory, sheer space (legroom, headroom), quietness, power.....it is easier to feel the 15K of difference between a fully loaded Accord and, let's say a Toyota Corolla than the 30-40K (or even more) of gap between that Accord and a 5 series.... I did sit on the back of a new Mazda 6 and it was almost more roomy than an S Class...and basically as quiet....

cjTL

iTrader: (2)

Certainly a variable that is different at every dealer. Last time I pulled into the service bay, a lady came up and opened my door for me, greeted me as I got out, knew my name (based on the appointment description of my car), and had the paperwork for my appointment ready to go in her hand. Impressive. Really didn't expect that at Acura at all.

JM2010 SH-AWD

^^You should be getting that kind of service every visit. If not, complain and/or find another dealer.

OperationDarkie

iTrader: (1)

^ I'm with him.