mdx_tl

It funny that many people thought Acura is a Joke in the Luxury car Market. I found this in the Infiniti forum: http://infinitiforum.net/infiniti-fo...ead.php?t=4733

compewterbleu

Acura is a luxury vehicle.

Mr Marco

Yeop

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

repost!!!
:ibinbeforelock:

mdx_tl

I didn't know this topic was discussed (posted). Mod please delete it. Thanks

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I posted that as more of a joke...if the mods allow and this subject doesnt turn out bad then I dont see why we cant have another one of these threads. there are lots of new comers lately.

When I bought my 3rd Gen TL, I knew it was an ENTRY level luxury car.

Yumcha

This topic has been debated many many times...



Do a search and have a look. I won't lock up this thread yet but I think those interested on this subject can see what has been said before...

One thing I'll say: It attempts to compete on many areas and IMO, I think Acura does decently (i.e. interiors). But, in others, not so much.

docboy

IMHO brand name is an image (for the most part) and subjectively rated (for the most part).

My wife has a Lexus RX. She's thinking of getting another SUV or a sedan. She likes the B8 A4 (for image, style, and quattro).

I suggest she also look at the G37x. IMHO better value and reliability (though the G is a bit small for me, it fits her small frame well). She won't even look, research onlinel, let alone test drive the Infiniti. In her opinion, Infiniti is not in the same class as Lexus, Audi, MB.

It goes both ways.

compewterbleu

Wow, I just read that the M series was a glorified Azera design with hints of an Elantra, yikes. Some of the posters are brutal Renault better get cracking.

Ruby

I don't see anything wrong with what he said...As a matter of fact I pretty much agree. I don't think my car is on the same level as a BMW or MB, but I think Acura does a pretty good job of almost getting there at a good price while being economical. That's not a bad thing at all, its just Acura niche. Honda/Acura have always been about good cars on a budget. Look at the NSX in its day it was the poor man's supercar. Just compare an Acura dealership with a Mercedes Benz dealership. At a MB dealership they treat you like royalty pretty much, at Acura its pretty much the same as a Honda dealership. I mean, MB, BMW, Audi have been around a long time Acura only has been around since 1986 I believe so it can't be expected that Acura is going to have the prestige of MB, BMW, Lexus or Audi. I have to disagree on one part though, I'd say Infiniti is still entry luxury. The don't even have a full size equivilent to the 7 series or S class and neither does Acura so I think that plays a big part.

mdx_tl

Not many people think Acura is a luxury vehicle. I happened talked with a guy who is about 60 year of age. he looked at my TL and asked me what brand is it? I sail it's Acura TL, he said "why don't you spend a few thousand dollars extra to get a Camry or Maxima?". I was like "huh?"

compewterbleu

I have to disagree, I work on a military installation, worked for the District, a fortune 500 company and owned an Acura then and now. Engineers and and corporate heads both recognized Acura as a luxury brand, no they didn't produce a v-8 like the quarter to eight BMW, however I heard that Acura had a different approach towards luxury. And that's covering different demo-graphical areas from PA to NJ to NY to MD to VA to DC to NC to SC to GA to AL to FL to TX to TN to CA...you can say I get around.

VQPower37

acura is def not in the same class ... but that doesn't mean they are not a great class of their own. they mix luxury with affordable pricing, its why i love my TL

Pete2010

Yikes... these types of threads are usually recopies for success.

But yea, it's a entry level luxury vehicle.

Edit - I have never been in a Datsun that I liked. They all felt cramped and cheap to me... But you're not going to get a non-bias answer to a question like that on any car forum. I'm sure some Infiniti and other car owners feel the same about Acura's. Whatever, it doesn't matter to me what car people buy.

I did like his line about "making a statement". If you need a car for that you've already lost.

compewterbleu

Truth be told luxury is more Bentley than BMW or more Maserati than MB...when the common man can have a car it normally loses it's high end status. The luxury class is like saying middle class, there are levels to it.

I see MB's, Bimmers, Infins, Ack's in some of the lower income neighborhoods. That was different during the late 70's and even '80's. They're all mainstream.

Make make mine an Aston Martin, shaken not stirred.

SSGHutch

And that should put it to bed. Well said.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

x2.

/thread.

jspagna1

Acura was the first to produce the entry level luxury car.

Acura - founded 1986

Infiniti - founded 1989

Lexus - founded 1989

And yes if you don't care about dependability go and buy an Audi, BMW, or MB. At least I'll be driving my car while your driving yours to the dealership multiple times.

I recall a few years ago when Infiniti was introducing the 2007 G35 and they had an open house I went to with my sister & brother-in-law. I was talking to a guy who was there looking at the cars and he said he owned a E Class MB and an Infiniti and he said his MB was always in the shop for fixes.

winstrolvtec

Acura is a luxury brand although their strong points are not within the classic luxury theme or approach and there is nothing wrong with that. For anyone to question Acura or a TL as being a luxury car against the likes of Infiniti or only a Nissan G is definately on crack. Infiniti only just introduced a new generation vehicle in the M that competes on a higher level when compared to the best in terms of luxury and that is really only from a materials and features point of view, not so much in terms of build quality or solidity from what I have heard.

Acura's lineup is half low cost entry cars so the level of luxury is not going to be anything more than the price dictates. Usually with more luxury comes a higher price tag and with less, the price comes down, so while Acura as a whole is only around average for their level of luxury, they are cheaper and usually excel in a number of other areas like reliabilty, crash test, resale, and low cost maintenance instead. The level of luxury in any brand or vehicle does not deem it better overall, only more or less luxurious.

Then they do have their more luxurious models, the RL, MDX, and ZDX which may not the best in class but are pretty good and do compete in that regard. What seems to hurt their image is the perception or misconception that surrounds V8 and RWD which most assume is a luxury brand characteristic but that is purely performance related and has nothing to do with luxury. V8 and RWD originated in the mainstream markets and still exist there today which clearly suggests that it is not a luxury trait. Most people have a hard time distinquishing the difference.

cjTL

iTrader: (2)

Yes its a luxury brand. If anything, its Infiniti that isn't on the level of Lexus.

dadon

to me luxury is a panty dropper so TL is a luxury car :-) who cares about speed and shit all you going to get with that is tickets. lmao

smarty666

I have had a Cadillac, Mercedes, Acura, and Infiniti in my time. Unless your talking about super performance vehicles, I have not found that Acura is any less luxurious or below avg in terms of luxury compare to the rest. The service treatment at my MB stealer was not any different than how I was treated by my Acura stealers.

One thing I have never understood is this, companies like Acura and Infiniti are considered below the others b/c of their lack of certain offerings yet how it is BMW, MB, and Audi are so much better when people still have major mechanical and reliability issues with those makes. Since Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus do not have those issues, I would say that even's the playing field in terms of luxury. It all depends on what your looking for, and what your willing to sacrifice or take a chance on with a car maker.

Meaning, with BMW, MB, and Audi you might get a slightly more refined/better driving automobile but with Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus you getting much better reliability, cost, and features for the price.

How is a MB, BMW, or Lexus on a completely different (higher) level from your Acura or Infiniti if it is constantly in the shop being repaired or fixed?? Doesn't seem that way to me.

I can understand from certain people's perspective if they are looking for sport performance/enthusiast vehicles, that Acura's lack of those offerings would lower their status in their eyes, but as others have pointed out, most luxury car buyers do not put emphasis in those areas.

Personally, while I love the styling of Audi, I can not figure out for the life of me how people can say they are better than Acura or Infiniti in this country when they still have such a poor reliability record on a lot of their products and lower sales then both Acura and Infiniti.

JAB00

I think of Acura cars as upscale. Most people know that it cost more than the average family sedan (Accord or Camry). However, neither I nor most people look at it as true competitors to MB, BMW, Audi or even Lexus. Comparably equipped those cars are multiple thousands more.

Infiniti is in the same league as Acura. It's only had a mini-resurgence in the last 5 years. I do not think that my mom, dad or sisters know what an Infiniti is or looks like.

P1zzaman

iTrader: (1)

mainly because the couches they have a their dealership is of higher quality and so it their coffee while you are waiting hours there to have your undependable car repaired.

Quick! Go to da auto haus!

Mr Marco

Blah Blah asdfwadfw You should have just locked it.

Mr Marco

Except for this gem^ Love it, and the Puzo quote in your signature.

BLEXV6

I don't think so. IMHO I have always been drawn to Acura because I have long been a Honda fan, and I love the Acura even more. To me, Lexus is boring and somewhat an old man's car (I also tested an ES350), but got the TL, the Lexus, on the surface seems to be similar money, but if you want all the things that the Acura offers you, the Lexus is going to cost more, I love Audi's but their reliability is in question, and I am not a fan of Nissan, even though I like the look of Infiniti's. So to me, for what i am willing to pay, The Acura is a perfect fit for me.

Ken1997TL

I would define Acura & Infiniti as 'premium' brands. Lexus is the low end of the luxury brands with their bread and butter being premium vehicles. Same goes for BMW and Audi. Mercedes Benz, especially outside this country, sells something for everyone.

Luxury (to me) involves craftmanship and something rare, unobtainable for most.

YetiTL

+1 so very true, I guess if we look at the brands worldwide then the only luxury brands are Ferrari, Lambo, Aston and the super exclusive other brands. You'll have to explain to me how a brand can be considered luxury if more than half their sales are done with entry-level, leatherette-clad 3 series or C class or whatever.

For me, the whole debate on luxury is pretty much dead in 2008-2010 year with the increased proliferation of lower cost/ high tech options found in modern econoboxes.

My definition of luxury is the same as you.

cjTL

iTrader: (2)

^I don't get the 3 series/C class. Both start in what the high 30Ks (really the low $40Ks, since no one buys the car without options since they come so stripped), and include no options that their competitors do for the same price, if not cheaper? IE- The C-Class has xenon headlights as a part of a lighting package that costs a couple grand. Better yet, you wanted heated front seats? That'll be an $800 stand-alone option! What a great buy!

inder

if someone have Infiniti they gonna say it's better then audi then if u have audi u gonna say it's better then Infiniti so just go with wht You like i got acura it dosn't matter if its luxry or not i love it..

saturno_v

First of all, if we are talking about cachet and history, MB and BMW have MUCH MUCH more than Audi, that's for sure...Audi as luxury brand was concocted in the late 70's (making a tenuous connection with the short lived pre WWII Auto Union Brand)
Audi was conceived as premium division of VW, no different than Acura (Honda), Lexus (Toyota), Infiniti (Nissan)....so if someone driving an A4 with fake leather is going to tell you that his car has more "prestige" than your Acura just laugh at his/her face...for crying out oud, even Cadillac has more heritage than Audi....

These are some of the econoboxes that Audi was making in the 70s when MB and BMW were already building fabulous sport cars like the SL, CSI, etc....so not exactly premium material...







So once we can definitely put to rest the ridiculous notion that Audi has a somewhat better cachet than any of the Japanese premium brands, we can say that Acura, compared to the other luxury/premium brands, is hurt by the lack of big displacement engines with more than 6 cylinder...but again we are talking about "cachet", "image"...pretty fluffy subjective stuff if you ask me....some regular Honda and Toyota models have more technical cachet than some Jaguar model if you care to look at what it's there under the hood....

Acura has positioned itself more as a "geeky" brand with strong focus on technology..that is its niche...


Yes the Japanese premium names do not have the same historical heritage of BMW or MB (MB in turn being superior to BMW) but that should not reflect on your choice (it doesn't in mine....I drive a car not a badge on the hood)

In the segment where they compete Acura are as luxurious, as technologal advanced and as well finished as any competitor.


Talking about dealer experience......after my recent shopping experience I can tell you that Lexus is one notch (actually let's say 2 or 3) above anybody else (including Mercedes) in the Seattle area.....the exclusive setting of the showroom, technical kowledge of salespeople, etc....

mdx_tl

Amen.

Mods please lock this thread. Thanks

New2Acura2

No don't. As long as everyone is civil, leave it. Interesting comments in here.

Imo, Acura and Infiniti are pretty much in the same category. Audi always tried to compete with the big boys, BMW and MB but always fell short imo. Lexus has seemed to step up their game in the recent years and are right there with BMW & MB, imo.

However I will say this, as far as entry level luxury with all things being equal (meaning price). I say the Acura and Infiniti both beat BMW and MB in luxury.

TechnoCat

You are asking an Acura forum if Acura is a luxury brand. Of course you'll get a "Hell Yes!" You're asking on a thread that compewterbleu is allowed to post on and has already posted FOUR times on... that's a guarantee of both bias and that any dissenting opinions will be bashed and the posters called haters. And the other usual suspects showed.

A few months ago I did an experiment. Caveat: I was disappointed in my 2010 Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT and bought an Audi S4 Prestige 6MT instead... which is much more expensive but is also in a completely different class. For 25% or so more, it should be. Anyhow, so before I did that, I was curious about the same thing, so I asked around... from the people that worry about image more than about the precise feature spec. Try it... Go to Nordstrom or an Anderson Consulting office or a high-end bar and ask the classiest-looking women if an Acura is in the same class as Audi, or as BMW, or as Mercedes. compewterbleu would (correctly) claim that those women are hardly car-experts, but that's really the point - they know image though. If you don't care about their opinion and you like your car, enjoy the car and don't worry about the classification.

Is it a "luxury" car? Well, Acura no longer thinks so. They officially abandoned the tier-1 effort and switched their campaign about 10 months ago to "Smart-Luxury" instead. But luxury is relative. Acura is more luxurious than Honda or Chevy, and probably less so than the top four German brands. And as Winslovtec often points out, Acura costs less per major feature. So is that luxury? What about the fact that most of those same features can be had for less in a Chrysler 300? Keyless entry, iPod and Nav are available on many minivans now; does that make them "luxury", or does it require something more?

So the term is almost meaningless. Enjoy your car.

Rocketsfan

I don't care if Acura is deemed "luxury", "near-luxury", "entry luxury", or what. I just know that I love their interiors, I love their reliability, love the performance they provide, and the one thing they do better than others - they tie it all up in a package that provides value/bang-for-the-buck. I think Infiniti is the only one that approaches them in this regard. To me, you can't find true "luxury" for under $60-$70,000. Whoever said Aston Martin up there... that is my definition of beautiful and luxurious vehicles.

saturno_v

Totally agree on that...

Where I disagree:

1) Maybe some chick may think of Audi as a superior brand....not the vast majority of the general public....except maybe for someone that just strictly look at the top end models...yes in that regard Audi is "superior" because it makes V-10 engines and 600 hp vehicles where Acura doesn't....I accept the "superiority" of Audi under that narrow interpretation

2) That the S4 is in a "completely different class" is correct in the sense that the TL really competes with the A6 and not the A4.....no because of any perceived "inferiority" (I did pay a visit to the Audi dealer when I was shopping for my TL SH-AWD and I could not stomach the poor interiors)...actually the TSX could be a perfect competitor for the S4 if Acura would decide to slap the 3.7 liter engine on it (or turbocharge the 3.5) and the SH-AWD...

Having a very high top offering or halo cars it does indeed help the image of the brand (something the Japanes need to learn..or maybe they have a reason for not doing it) .....because Audi makes the R8 some kid or a chick driving an A4 2.0 Quattro with fake leather may think that his car is more luxurious or has more "prestige" than my TL....delusions can be great....

saturno_v

Absolutely....a fully loaded Accord in that regard is on par with an A4 or a 3 Series if we are talking luxiry level, not smokescreen....

But you see, the Germans are masters at creating illusions and clever marketing...someone driving a 2.7 liter McPherson front setup Porsche Boxster think is driving a superior car to a Nissan 350Z......illusion is everything in life...

winstrolvtec

That's not all I point out, Acura simply delivers a lot more for less or per dollar in all major categories in comparison to most brands, it doesn't stop at features but that has more to do with value and less to do with luxury, although their luxury to dollar ratio can be considered better as well depending of how one defines luxury and how it pertains to an automobile.

That's exactly why it is meaningless cause it can't be defined in terms of an auto nor is it standardized and I don't think image defines automotive luxury any more than any other aspect relating to a vehicle does.

cp3117

You really dont have any clue whatsoever when it comes to the history of the Audi brand, do you??

Where do you get that Audi uses fake leather?? They use a Milano leather on their seating surfaces (Standard) on vehicles like the A3 and which Acura only started using recently on vehicles like the TL. Most models use Nappa which is a higher grade and even VW uses Nappa on vehicles like the CC. Audi even has "Audi Exclusive" similar to "BMW Individual" etc where you can select any paint, interior material, options etc that you cant get from regular production. These are a few of many things why Acura isnt on par with the tier one brands like Audi, BMW, MB etc.

http://autoheadlines.blogspot.com/20...ous-brand.html

This is a post of a small sample of people questioned on where they would rank luxury vehicles. This is where the majority of people I know and that I have seen on many forums, would rank the vehicles with maybe the exception of Lexus.