Stew4HD

They do still have the trim pieces similar to the 3G but it's less "silver/shiny" as the 3G.

JM2010 SH-AWD

I'm not sure about the '12s, but there's a common misperception that these trim pieces in the 09-11 models are not metal, when in fact they are (at least on AWD Tech models - again not sure about FWDs). It is a thin aluminum piece that is applied over and bonded to plastic, which makes the metal less susceptible to dents and dings.

cp3117

You are probably the only person here that has owned both vehicles and has given many reviews both positive and negative for BOTH vehicles.

Many people here including myself appreciate your feedback and as you have already mentioned above, the only people here that seem to be against you are the ones that only want to hear 150% positive feedback on the 4G......but you always get those people on any direct model enthusiast forum. If you go to the general areas like "Car Talk" etc it becomes much less bias.

saturno_v

Sure the "Car Talk" section is less bias......aaaaaabbbbbssssoooolllluuuttttteeeelllll yyy......thank you for the good laugh though...

jasonwdp10

Yup, and "those people" will get torn to shreds if they try to step outside of this 4gtl forum.

TechnoCat

Such cleverness...

From experience, yes. Remember, this is my fourth Audi.

Are you still setting up straw men? I've been very clear that Acuras rate higher on reliability. And that Audi really screwed the pooch on the water pump issue. Porsche did so with engine blocks ten years ago too. Sometimes these companies pull that crap, and it's a bummer when they do. You're a lot less likely to have these troubles with an Acura, as I've stated before. But I also have owned Audis for 15+ years and never had any of those problems.

In case you aren't clear on it, "Setting up a straw man" means you're arguing with what you wish I'd said rather than what I did. I never said Audis were as reliable as Acuras, just that they aren't terrible.

And I've been very clear about that too. The TL has several advantages over the S4 - including rear seating space, reliability and sports-car feeling.

I do consider the S4 over-priced. For about $2000 in parts/labor, Acura could have made the TL SH-AWD be everything the S4 Prestige is.

I think I beat the "critics" to the punch on a lot of it. My big problem was that it was very uncomfortable on long drives due to the seats, head restraints and uncomposed suspension accentuated by hard plastics in the cubbies designed to rattle. Since we drove ~500 miles a week, those were crucial - but didn't show up in a short test drive on the better-maintained freeway near the dealership.

The rest was just small stuff. It annoyed me that the rear seats didn't fold down, but it's not a deal breaker. The loud sunroof (when open) annoyed, but also not a deal breaker. Trying to navigate tracks on the iPod interface was hugely annoying, but the voice-system-roulette game the car comes with sort-of made up for it. The critics attacked the styling; I almost never do. I had the beak painted black as part of my negotiations, so mine didn't look bad really.

saturno_v

Technocat, now you start cooking....we can agree on a lot of points...we just came to different conclusions.

Yes to rear seat not folding down does annoy me so the not very practical trunk compared to other cars.....

I have not experienced any rattle..zero...and I drive a lot of backroads....so your car was unlucky in that regard..have you tried to get it fixed??

The ride can be stiff altought non uncomposed...but it is to be expected...it is a truly sport sedan...I did find the 335 even stiffer, the 535 stiff about the same.

Seats are rigid too (and to a German car driver should not bother that much) and with "aggressive" headrests...but the lateral support is fantastic....not to mention the look of the bolsters...

Yes I would have loved the real metal door opening handles....and few more accents in real alluminum....couple of more soft material details...the $2000 additional touch you were mentioning....no car is perfect (and the A4/S4 skimps on other less visible areas anyway which for me are important the same)......however I can live with it... I did not choose instead to overspend 10-20K more for an S4 which I personally feel it cost too much for what it is.

According with what you wrote, this does not make an A4/S4 more luxurious than a TL...just different.

ardenne90

Before I settled on the 2012 TL SH-AWD w/Advance I cross-shopped the M37, MBE350, BMW 5, and Jaguar XF. I was willing to throw up to 55K at my new ride. However, no matter how hard I tried to justify the extra cost of going with the "esteemed" competitors my better judgement kept going back to the 4G. I came close to pulling the trigger on the M37 w/Deluxe and Premium packages, but could not get beyond its lack of road presence. I am probably going to get some blow-back, but the Jag and its German siblings are notoriously unreliable, overpriced, and have above average cost of ownership. The fact that Audi was not on my shortlist, speaks volume about how I feel about Audi as a brand. I am a "value" car buyer and can't quite wrap my head around the idea of paying a premium for a ride just because it has a German badge. I think German cars are some of the most overrated cars, especially Audi and BMW. The problem with most car buyers in the upscale market is that too often they allow themselves to get caught up in the hype from so-called expert (paid) reviewers. Just my 2 cents...

boe_d

Thanks for starting this post. Due to some of the features I would like I probably won't spend a lot of time looking at the 2012 model as my car should last me a while longer. However you never know in LA if you car will get stolen so I like knowing what I would buy if I had to buy a car tomorrow. I know 1 person who had their taken from their driveway and another who had it taken from their garage while they slept.

It is great to know what owners think of the car after they've really gotten a chance to size up the car for a while. It doesns't sound like you had an deal breakers but it is a shame when some things go down hill in quality. Obviously you think the positives of the car outweigh the negatives for your needs but I think if more threads like this were created, it might get to the professional reviewers and in turn if they ding Acura on something - they are more likely to upgrade it in a following model.

A very useful thread.

BLEXV6

Thanks for clearing that up. I think th 12's are plastic. The pre 12 trim FWD is that plastic wood.

dethred

Comparing the Acura Legend to the TL is more difficult than comparing a TL to a 7-series BMW. The Acura Legend had a price of about $41,000 in 1991 for the loaded LS model. Of course it is going to have better materials throughout; it would probably cost about $70,000 today. Instead of plastics it had padded vinyl, wood trim, and very few expenses spared.


You were stating how the Audi is generally a better car... which is entirely subjective. Being a matter of opinion, why would you waste your time on a forum for a car you sold months ago? You have literally zero reasons for even coming to this site anymore; unless you consider plugging Audis ad nauseam to be an actual reason (straw men?? Phfff). This thread is about quality parts, with which audi is having some on-going issues.

And apparently you haven't heard of what you're in for.

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/5...1002251529.jpg

Or has audi figured out a fix for the FSI motors?

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-up-Megathread

Again, Every car has its shortcomings, so coming in here talking about Audis is a bit ridiculous (unless you're discussing the major discrepancies in reliability).

Anyways, please answer why you're still posting in here. I am just curious.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Not sure it's that big a stretch; my Legend Coupe listed for about 34K in '92 - I picked it up for about 27.5K. But in any event the differences in the quality of some materials is pretty significant, mainly the door panels and floor coverings. My Legend did not have real wood (but it was a very nice facsimile).

My point is that while Acura (and others) have taketh away on some fronts, it has more than giveth on others. As advanced as the 2G Legends were in 91-92, they pale against the advancements Acura offers in the 4G TL in the areas of performance (not even close), comfort, and tech. My Coupe (MT) would run 0-60 in a tick over 7 seconds and got about 23 MPG overall. According to the mags, my TL will run 0-60 in 5.2 and I'm averaging 24.8 mpg. I'll take those kinds of tradeoffs any day (but better carpeting/mats would always be welcome).

Stew4HD

Just so you know.. there is basically NO DIFFERENCE on the inside of the 12 compared to the 09-11 in materials or otherwise.

I thought the OP was comparing the 4G to the 3G and earlier.

WalterSobchak

Oddly, I too enjoy TC's frequent appearances on AZ. As far as my admittedly poor memory can recall, his consistency is great. Unfortunately, its the area of consistency that is the problem. So many of the owners here are (or claim to be) performance oriented, whereas TC's dislikes of the 4G TL appear to be largely focused on the comfort of the vehicle for him and his DP. Placing ride quality on par with handling/performance is tantamount to sacrilige on these pages, causing riots in the black market and outbreaks of cat-scratch fever (in Ted Nugent we trust) in the NSX forums. And kittens cry, don't forget them.

Here's my beef. The "discussions" that follow any of his posts turn into pissing contests faster than you can say "wha happen'd???"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D421N6xlisg

And nobody really wants to watch a pissing contest (for obvious reasons) so the thread becomes a black hole...nothing of value emerges. If we can embrace TC's thoughts here AND disagree in an appropriate way, I think we'll have a far better way of informing potential TL buyers on the best place to burn their 35-55k. Thats the goal of these "which is better threads" right? Right?!?!!

Here's a good rule of thumb. If the number of multi-quotes in your thread exceeds the number of fingers on one hand (remember, thumbs don't count!!), there's a good chance you're entering jerk territory, and people will stop reading your ramblings. And its not personal. Its just that we would much rather receive tweets from Ron Artest's Shrink than reread the same thread from a month ago being rehashed with different four-letter words.



As far as the Car Talk stuff, I think you find fewer enthusiasts over that way. Lots of very knowledgeable car people, but without enthusiasm, its no longer a TL. Its just a car.

KidK

The biggest cost cutter that annoys me is the front license plate bracket holes. Went from nuts behind the fascia that could be capped to two dimples that get screws right through the paint and plastic.

Once the bracket is on, you can't get rid of it easily without a paint job.

acura_TL2010

I went for my second oil change today and was looking at the 2012 TL and i saw the door chrome trip is gone and iam glad i have it which clearly distinguishes form non tech to tech pack

normallywho

I just wanted to point out that the coin holder is the small compartment just in front of the shifter with the little door that flips up.

KeithL

You made right decision, I can't wait to get out of my M37S, the ride while softer than a TL-AWD is jittery, the damn 20" wheels make the look of the car, but they are so heavy they afect ride negatively. Also while the car is styled noce and has luxurios interior is built cheaply compared to TL. And the Technology on the M just plan old sucks, the BT and nav suck and I can get a Ford with Sync that has better technology.

jspagna1

As many of you have already mentioned all car companies are guilty of cost cutting. It's just a fact of life. A couple of examples is I bought my 1992 Maxima SE for $24,000 and I bought my 2003 Maxima for $24,000 how can that be? I have had more crap replaced on the 03 that I never had to have replaced on the 92.
Another example is that the newest Toyota 4Runner has the gas door which opens from the outside where my 97 4Runner has the gas door release lever in the truck. That's a great idea especially with the way gas prices are going.

Fabvsix

without reading all the threads here.......Japan made vs. Ohio made.....nuff said.....

I can tell you that the interior quality in my 04 RL doesn't compare with my 2007 MDX sport thus the RL (Japan made) is superior over the MDX interior parts....

jspagna1

Ya that's what I was thinking when I bought the Maxima in 03. That was the last year the Maxima was built in Japan and did not want to buy the 04 although I didn't like the 6th gen Maxima anyways but it still wasn't built as well.

BLEXV6

I would say that used to be true, but to me my TL, which is asembled in the USA, seems better assembled than the TSX which is assembled in Japan, however that said, our RDX has to me poor fitting exterior panels when compared to my TL and TSX.

Fabvsix

I was comparing "quality of interior parts" as opposed to manufacturing. The thickness of the leather seats in my 04 RL are FAR better than the leather raved about on my 07 MDX "SPORT"......thin and cheap. And we all know the wood dash parts are REAL wood in the 04 RL unlike all the other models..... the list goes on and on thus the reason I'm keeping that "boring style" 2004 RL......its built like a tank.....
nuff said...

Ad Hoc Grip

A little late to the party I am. Just took delivery of my 3rd TL last night. I really should update my signature I guess. Now driving the '12 SH-AWD Advance, black on black. 45 miles into my new ride; overall I love it and glad I passed on the A6 I was seriously considering.
Prospective owners, things to aquaint yourselves with:
The rear doors sound hollow and "boomy" when you swing them shut. Same with the trunk lid.
No strap to pull down the rear seat armrest.
The Moon Roof cover is certainly flimsy and cheap.
Love the coin tray; miss the two-level armrest compartments.
Miss the double center-stack storage compartments (now one).
The trunk now has a step built into the floor - gonna make it hard to fit my subwoofer in there.
And my biggest gripe - can't buy the Helm service manual yet. Gonna be an adventure levering in my aftermarket audio goodies without it.

normallywho

I'm not sure this is a fair comparison given the RL is in a different class (definitely much further into the luxury class) than an MDX sport which, as the name suggests, is sportier over luxury. The RL will have real wood appointments, while I would not expect (or want) that in my TL. The leather in an RL should be better, too, and so on.

scv76

This would have been a great thread to read if the mods would have removed all the off-topic bull crap it contains

Oh wait, I'm off topic too

MIKEYDRED

Since the 09 model, Acura has been using the hard plastic on the door handle and some of your other items mentioned as omitted. It more of a way to keep the cost down from the 04-08 range and not seem like a drastic change. In terms of the TL vs TSX, I had a TSX as a loaner and the TL is miles ahead in terms of interior quality, TSX feels liek a Honda. In addiiton the TL has all LED lighting in the interior, believe the TSX now has also, but the TL is just a better built car inside and outside.

ardenne90

MikeyDred -Thanks for your contribution to this thread. I was not suggesting that the TSX was better than the TL in overall quality. I just used it to illustrate my broader point about the areas where I have seen some cost cutting. And since we have a 2011 TSX in the stable, it was tempting to do side by side comparisons.

Digressing here; are you a yardman? If you don't know what I mean by that then the answer is negative.