6SpeedTA95

Looking at picking up a different car the next few months. Something bigger that my current Mazdaspeed 3. We test drove the 328i last week and were impressed at how much more room it had over our current pair of Mazda's.

Audi is next on my short list to drive and put the baby seats in etc. I'd try to get SLine with MMI drive if I go Audi because otherwise the steering is just way over boosted.

Both the Audi and the BMW are down on power in comparison with the Acura, but the Acura is also heavier, so I'm not sure the power difference is all that stark in daily driving.

I'd prefer a manual transmission but on the Acura that means having to step up to SHAWD. Otherwise I'll be stuck with a 5AT which is a cog or two short of "normal" in this field. The Acura is also more expensive to purchase but will likely hold its value better in the long run so it's probably a wash in the big picture.

Can anyone speak to the difference between these vehicles? Interior space? Road noise? Build quality? Reliability etc? I would assume the German's are a bit quieter and built a bit better, but over the long run will require more $ to keep them on the road. But they also get considerably better MPG which would offset some of those increased repair/maintenance costs.

weather

^^^ Those are all great vehicles and EACH have their pros and cons. Is there one that is a clear winner....Depends on what you identify as the most important thing for you.

Most will tell you that comparably equipped vehicles, the TL tends to be a bit cheaper when new....If the TL is more expensive used, it demonstrates that the TL doesn't depreciates as much.

BMW and Audi should give you a better "brand cachet" but personally, I would not feel comfortable buying used. New, and living in a city with the dealership, I'd be less worried and could be convinced to get one. Used....Not sure. Acura is pretty hard to beat when it comes to reliability compared to the other brands you stated, and to me, reliability is more important than "brand cachet"....I don't feel I need to prove anything to anyone. Also, the Acura interior is sexier to me, at least on the SH-AWD tech.

Now the 2010 has a bit of a polarizing front grill which was modified with the MMC in 2012. Some like the pre-MMC while some prefer the post-MMC. Its all based on your personal preference.

All this to say this....given the choice, I'd go with this order....Acura, Audi and BMW. But that is just me.

KeithL

I have taken an A4 and S4 out several times in the last 2 months going through the same eval. First it depends on what you are looking for. The A4 is a nice car, but I find the interior a little cramped. Also their tech is not bad, but dated, the only really cool thing is google maps and the fact that you can speak a full address to its navi. It handles great, the S4 is obviously a beast and rocket. If you get the Audi Driver Select it allows you to dial in the steering and throttle, not bad. My big fear with Audi is their reliability reputation and that the current A4 while a nice ride is very near the end of the current model cycle. It is a tight car in that it feels well constructed and the ride is top notch. The A4 I4 Turbo is really excellent, but you will know you are driving a 4 as it has a little raspiness to it. I do feel that you get more for the money with Acura or even Infiniti over Audi or BMW, but that depends on what you are looking for. One thing that took BMW 3 out for me is I absolutely hate pop up navi screens. My issue right now is do I jump on a 13 TL SH-AWD at a very good price and maybe regret not waiting for the new on next year, or gamble and don;t look back.

6SpeedTA95

Keith, my 2 cents on that is, to never buy the first model year of a new car. If the TL is getting a significant revamp in 2014. I wouldn't buy a 2014. I'd rather buy a couple year old version of the current car, keep it for a few years and then trade up to a used 2015 at that point (ie 3 or 4 years down the road).

I've also considered going to a last gen TL-S since I could probably go damn near straight across. But ultimately, I know I want something newer with some of the tech features. Not sure if I want to part with the 25+ that will be required for SHAWD on a 2010 though :hs:

Edward'TLS

Audi vehicles tend to start requiring frequent attentions starting at around the 5th year when the factory standard warranty is expiring.

So make sure that the previous owner has bought extended warranty and is transferable to the next owner, since buying extended warranty for used Audi's is an expensive undertaking because insurance companies all know they have to pay out expensive repair expenses in the future.

KeithL

In general I tend to agree with you, although my 09 SH-AWD was early in the first year and it was rock solid. My 04 TL also a first year was mechanically solid, but had a few squeaks and rattles.

I am torn, as one fear I have is that the TLX in an effort to cover a large span (TSX and TL) may get cheapened a bit in some areas, it is clear the double wishbone suspension is going away. Also I test drove a RLX and while a nice car if that is the direction of the ride quality then maybe getting a 13 TL is a good move. Also while I think they will keep SH-AWD in the TLX one never knows, they may dump it to save cost and weight.

6SpeedTA95

How do you like your Infiniti? I'll probably drive the G37 again since I'm back in the market. Not the worlds biggest fan of VQ to be honest. It was a bit harsh in my Maxima (02) and the interior just seems below par (no offense, I know you drive an Infiniti). But it's been a few years and I've not driven a 2010+ G37.

Mr Marco

OP, why you wouldn't op-up for the SH-AWD is beyond me.

6SpeedTA95

SH-AWD is an option. Never said it wasn't. Just carries a hefty price premium is all.

weather

^^^ If you can afford the SH-AWD, I would strongly encourage you to get it. It is not solely for the snow as people would tend to believe but on rain but even on dry roads. The SH-AWD is one of the best, and will take your TL to level you would not even imagine. When I got my 2012, I was a bit nervous to push it too hard at first, but with each drive, I would push it a bit further and then a bit more and once you start learning to "feel" the car, you will be amazed on how fun it drives!! I find myself craving potato chips at 11pm just to get an excuse to go out and drive the TL *lol*

ghztx4o

im comtemplating the same question and drove all above mentioned. i chose to go with the tl sh awd but my heart will ache to see the new 2014 model.

JM2010 SH-AWD

I'd agree with springing for the SH-AWD if you can swing it. In addition to the fantastic torque vectoring AWD, you'll get a few nicer amenities, including a nicer interior/seats (and the possibility of a 6MT).

As to the Germans, I'd echo what someone said above - if you decide to go that way, don't touch one without a rock-solid extended warranty.

KeithL

You know the G37 is going away in about 3 months to be replaced with the Q50.
I have come to like it overall, a few things annoy me, the electronics are a bit unpolished. The navi is a pain to use, the bluetooth hands free sound quality sucks and the road noise is too much in general, but the car rides really nice and is a pleasure to drive. The 7 speed Auto hunts too much when you punch it, but I understand there is a new computer update to address that. I may get another M37 Sport if I can get one with the tech package. I really want technology in my next car, blind spot warning/intervention, adaptive cruise, collision detect and intervention, etc. Infiniti added to the M and JX this year Infiniti connection which is liek their On Star, I like that idea because so much of the nav is locked out while driving and sucks to use via voice I would love to hit a button and have someone figure out what I need and download it to the navi. I think Acura builds a better car, but Infiniti style a beautiful interior and exterior, really makes you feel like you are in a luxury car IMO.

Ditto, when I had my 09 SH-AWD I was fearless, which I guess and be a bad thing, but the car was solid even is slushy slippery roads I would just drive while others were crawling with hazards on. And in rain, you are like, what rain and just plow ahead.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

Especially if the AWD TL is equipped with the stickiest summer tires in the summers and the best high-performance winter tires in the winters, the car is virtually invincible on the roads in all weather conditions (as long as the vehicle ground clearance will allow).

6SpeedTA95

Speaking of interior noise levels, that's long been a downfall of Honda products in my book. It was one of the drawbacks to the gen3 IMO. While not "noisy" it certainly wasn't on par with the germans or Lexus. How is this Gen4?

Edward'TLS

The MMC (2012+) TL is quieter in the inside cabin due to more insulation, than the pre-MMC (2009-2011) TL.

BEAR-AvHistory

Will sit this one out

Edward'TLS

So far, so good.

6SpeedTA95

????

Not sure why the site ha refused to let me post today, it keeps saying I've been logged out...let's try again since I've manually logged out and back in.

The insurance is by far the cheapest on the acura at 697/yr. The Audi was next at 800/yr and the BMW was 927/yr.

I also did some additional reading on interior volume, seat dimensions, etc. It seems the TL is closer to a 5 series in cabin size. But may be a bit louder, I see comments regarding road noise on various sites, which I guess I"ll have to judge for myself.

SHAWD with a 6MT is tough to find, otherwise its 5MT w/tech package for me I suppose.

It also seems Acura will hold its value a LOT better than the two germans, especially as you eclipse 100k miles (who knows if I'll put that on it or not).

g37guy01

I happen to like my G37. It's the best value out there for power and handling. The interior is cockpit like and very clean. It's also a smaller cockpit, which I like very much. The wood accents give it a classy look. I do miss my BMW, that thing was smooth and quiet, but at the end of the day, I chose the G over the competition.

I'm not tied to Infiniti and am waiting to like the next gen TL. Probably won't get another BMW unless something changes. I would like to like more than 1 manufacturer in this segment to have a choice....although the Q50 hybrid seems very appealing.

saturno_v

Why not considering in your choice also an Infiniti??

To keep things short on a Model Year 2010 comparison:


The TL is bigger which means more space especially at the back with the 3 Series being the most cramped.

The 3 Series has a more agile driving feeling and allow you a RWD fun factor

The TL is down between 1 and 3 cogs in automatic form compared to the 328, the A4 and the G.

In my opinion the TL has nicer and richer interiors (disclaimer I own a TL so it is highly subjective) compared to the others

The TL is much more unique in style which can be a positive or a negative aspect depending on your point of view.

If you opt for the SH-AWD version things start to lean heavily on the TL favor and if you go further and you can find a non mistreated manual 2010 TL is even better.....where the 328 could be still your choice if you want agility, the smoothest 6 cylinder in the business and RWD or the powerful G37, the TL SH-AWD blows the A4 out of the water pretty much on all fronts.

If the RWD is a must I would still opt for the G37 which you can probably find used for BMW 328 money on that model year

emanon256

I loved the S4, the speed, the turbo, it was fun. But I really didn't like the interior. I think the TL was much sleeker looking inside, where I usually am. Outside, I liked the Audi's better. I didn't test the BMW. I love the looks of the BMW, but I don't like the stereotypes associated with them. I went with the TL over the Audi for several reasons.


TL Pros:
Main reason, I had my last TL all the way through 240,000 miles and it only needed two low cost repairs that whole time. There was still nothing wrong with it, I just wanted something newer. I am hoping my 2009 TL SH-AWD lasts just as long.

Many of my friends have Audi's and they always have high cost repairs all the time. I have yet to see one last over 100,000 miles before it is gotten rid of due to the repairs.

The 2009 TL is surprisingly quiet. For some reason, they put carpet in the rear wheel wells. Its a pain to clean, but it sure keeps the noise down.

SH-AWD is amazing!! I only wish I had the 6-MT, but the wife wanted the Auto. I would recommend 2012 or newer if you go auto so you get 6 speed. But trust me, you want the SH-AWD.


TL Cons:
Gas mileage. Its a heavy car, and with AWD on top of that, it just doesn't get good gas mileage. I was getting 17-19 city and 27-28 highway, but after they re-programed the 5-speed automatic, it dropped to ~14 city. Another reason to get the 2012+. My 2012 SH-AWD loaner was getting 21 city.

The beak, I am not a fan of the beak on the 2009-2011 TLs.

saturno_v

The OP was talking about the A4 not the S4...let's not go off rail and keep the thread quiet and useful

6SpeedTA95

I see your name and think Saturn V rocket

I am considering Infiniti, I've already owned a VQ powered car (Maxima) and while I'm considering it, it's not high on my list.

I would disagree iwth you on the interior, I think Audi has the best interior but need to drive them all again.

How would you suggest finding an un-molested TL? That's pretty much the goal in any used car purchase.

saturno_v

That is exactly what is my nickname is all about....

I had a Maxima too (manual) but be aware that while the old VQ35 (the 3.5 liter version) of the V6 Nissan was the smoothest V6 in the business, almost in the same class of the 6 inline BMW on that department, the new 3.7 liter is just a bit rougher and thrashy at the top end...still a really great engine but not as creamy as the old 3.5 liter.

We agree to disagree...I find the A4 interiors just average, they just try to pull the wool in front of your eyes with few trim pieces but overall nothing special, seats for example are a joke compared to the TL.

The manual may be driven particularly hard...the secret to buy a good used car is having a serious paid inspection with a final report done by a third party mechanic once the car passed your pre-screening (clean, no accident, etc...).....do not trust a 10 minutes check-up....

6SpeedTA95

I also had a 6MT manual

I'll report back on interiors for you after a couple weeks

CPO isn't a guarantee that a car hasn't been driven hard but it would seem to indicate it's been looked over pretty good? At least judging from the Acura website?

saturno_v

Let's say that if I buy used i tend to trust more Japanese brands...

My manual 6 speed Maxima was a 2002....the best Maxima in my book and according to some others too.

It blew the competition of the time many times ower...fast enough to almost nip at the heels of a 540i for basically half of the money....

6SpeedTA95

That is hilarious, so was mine....what color? I had silver car with tan interior. It was pretty quick, on par with my Mazdaspeed3.

I called the local Acura dealer today, told them I would be coming by for a test drive to determine if/when I want to start looking hard for an SH-AWD 6MT car. If I wind up having to settle for an auto, regular TL w/Tech would suffice.

saturno_v

Mine was red merlot with black leather interior, full optional with the LSD....some have been officially clocked at 5.8 sec in 0-60

KeithL

Owning the current VQ 3.7 M I agree the 3.7 is not all that smooth and very raspy sounding.

As for Audi I have been cross shopping the A4/S4 for 2 months now and I would have to disagree, while the fit and finish is top notch the materials to me are lower than Acura. The leather in anything other than the S4 with Nappa leather is not on par with Acura. Now if you look at S4 with nappa leather and the TL SH-AWD upgraded leather then i would say it is close, but the Audi steering wheel ergonomics just seem odd and the steering wheel styling looks and feels sub-par, although again the S-Line or S4 steering wheel is an improvement, but I would take the Acura SH-AWD steering wheel in a second. Overall the A4 does seem well built, more solid than Infiniti and possibly a tad more solid that the SH-AWD TL. In the end for me the cockpit is a bit narrow and tight, actually feels smaller than the gf's TSX. Being 6 foot I have grown to enjoy the space the M37 has, seems perfect for my seating as it has almost 2 more inches legroom than the TL and the center armrest allows me to rest my right arm and still have a good hold on the wheel, likely because the steering wheel is so large.

JM2010 SH-AWD

I agree with your take on Audi's current interiors, and not just the A4. A few years ago I'd go to the auto show and the Audis had the best interiors, hands down. At the last show, from the A4 to the A8, my impression of them was that they were nothing special. The pop up nav unit looks like an afterthought.

iMakeGood

Cleeeaaaaaan

GhostTL09

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