2009 TL SH-AWD vs. 2008 TL-S
08-12-2008, 12:37 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
2009 TL SH-AWD vs. 2008 TL-S
2009 TL SH-AWD will have 305 hp.but it weighs about 4000 lbs.
2008 TL-S is only FWD, 286 hp, but it weighs about 3600 lbs.
so roughly 20 more hp, but 400 more pounds AND more driveline drag from AWD.
Questions:
1) In a drag or a rolling start race, or freeway passing - which is faster?
2) given that the new TL will not be a "type S" and may be sprung softer, which will really handle better?
3) which will be more FUN to drive
4) which looks better???
if you were buying NOW - and you could get a TL-S for about $33,000 + TTL or wait a couple of months to see what they would sell a new TL SH-AWD for - WHAT WOULD IT SELL FOR and would it be worth that extra money... assuming it probably will NOT be discounted down to $33k...
I think the TL-S is faster. the SH-AWD will handle better on long sweepers wher eAWD kicks in, but on short quick transitions, like a twisty road the TL-S being lighter and more stiffly sprung will be more fun and agile.
bang for the buck - the TL-S with current discounts and incentives would be a much better buy.
unless you think whe the 09s actually show up the 08s will deprecite horribly...
2008 TL-S is only FWD, 286 hp, but it weighs about 3600 lbs.
so roughly 20 more hp, but 400 more pounds AND more driveline drag from AWD.
Questions:
1) In a drag or a rolling start race, or freeway passing - which is faster?
2) given that the new TL will not be a "type S" and may be sprung softer, which will really handle better?
3) which will be more FUN to drive
4) which looks better???
if you were buying NOW - and you could get a TL-S for about $33,000 + TTL or wait a couple of months to see what they would sell a new TL SH-AWD for - WHAT WOULD IT SELL FOR and would it be worth that extra money... assuming it probably will NOT be discounted down to $33k...
I think the TL-S is faster. the SH-AWD will handle better on long sweepers wher eAWD kicks in, but on short quick transitions, like a twisty road the TL-S being lighter and more stiffly sprung will be more fun and agile.
bang for the buck - the TL-S with current discounts and incentives would be a much better buy.
unless you think whe the 09s actually show up the 08s will deprecite horribly...
08-12-2008, 01:43 PM
#2
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1.) Based on the numbers, 5AT vs 5AT, I say it will be tie. 3G 6MT TL-S will win.
2.) Handling, I don’t know, the 3G TL-S 6MT is already so good in that category.
3.) I heard that the steering feel is worse on the new car on C&D, but MT says the new one has better feel…
4.) 3G….
2.) Handling, I don’t know, the 3G TL-S 6MT is already so good in that category.
3.) I heard that the steering feel is worse on the new car on C&D, but MT says the new one has better feel…
4.) 3G….
08-12-2008, 01:55 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
The new SH-AWD TL will be plenty fast. It may not be as quick of a stop due to the weight but I think it will catch the TL-S at a 1/4 mile. The handling will be better in the SH-AWD. Looks are subjective. I thought the new Accord was butt ugly when it first came out but the looks have grown on me. The 3G TL has a timeless and classic look that will be hard to ever match or surpass. In two to three years I'm definitely trading for a TL (current 05 TL owner). The amenities and reliability are just too much for me to pass up.
08-12-2008, 02:23 PM
#4
1) From a dig, the 4G will be a slight bit quicker due to better launch from the SH-AWD. From a roll, should be about equal.
2) SH-AWD does amazing things for large sedan handling. This will be a close call.
3) Same answer as above. Too early to tell in terms of feel.
4) Again, until I see it in person, can't be sure, but from the initial glances, I feel like the Alfa Romeo inspired lines of the 3G will be much more timeless than the 4G.
2) SH-AWD does amazing things for large sedan handling. This will be a close call.
3) Same answer as above. Too early to tell in terms of feel.
4) Again, until I see it in person, can't be sure, but from the initial glances, I feel like the Alfa Romeo inspired lines of the 3G will be much more timeless than the 4G.
08-12-2008, 02:52 PM
#5
Drifting
Thread Starter
SH-AWD can make large sedans handle better than they should, but do you think the new 4G will be asm uch fun.
ONE BIG QUESTION - for the $$$ what's a better deal? Buy a 3G TL-S now for about $33k or wait for the 4G to hit.
i have no idea what they will sell at, but the MSRP of a Type S now is almost 39k, and I can buy one for $33k. the loaded SHAWD version will supposedly have an MSRP of $42k...but can we expect similar price cuts due to the slow economy/car market making the new car almost the same price?
if thenew car sells at or above 40k all the time, then an08 TL-S at 33k is a steal. if they start blowing out 09 TL SH-AWD models at 35k then you might want to wait and see one / drive one to decide.
given the pricing of the TSX and how they have incentivized it - what do you all expect on the 09 TL?
i'm on the fence. i likie hte08, but don't know what to think about hte 09. but for the $$$... i wonder if the deals will be nearly as good..
ONE BIG QUESTION - for the $$$ what's a better deal? Buy a 3G TL-S now for about $33k or wait for the 4G to hit.
i have no idea what they will sell at, but the MSRP of a Type S now is almost 39k, and I can buy one for $33k. the loaded SHAWD version will supposedly have an MSRP of $42k...but can we expect similar price cuts due to the slow economy/car market making the new car almost the same price?
if thenew car sells at or above 40k all the time, then an08 TL-S at 33k is a steal. if they start blowing out 09 TL SH-AWD models at 35k then you might want to wait and see one / drive one to decide.
given the pricing of the TSX and how they have incentivized it - what do you all expect on the 09 TL?
i'm on the fence. i likie hte08, but don't know what to think about hte 09. but for the $$$... i wonder if the deals will be nearly as good..
08-12-2008, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 23109VC
2009 TL SH-AWD will have 305 hp.but it weighs about 4000 lbs.
2008 TL-S is only FWD, 286 hp, but it weighs about 3600 lbs.
so roughly 20 more hp, but 400 more pounds AND more driveline drag from AWD.
Questions:
1) In a drag or a rolling start race, or freeway passing - which is faster?
2) given that the new TL will not be a "type S" and may be sprung softer, which will really handle better?
3) which will be more FUN to drive
4) which looks better???
if you were buying NOW - and you could get a TL-S for about $33,000 + TTL or wait a couple of months to see what they would sell a new TL SH-AWD for - WHAT WOULD IT SELL FOR and would it be worth that extra money... assuming it probably will NOT be discounted down to $33k...
I think the TL-S is faster. the SH-AWD will handle better on long sweepers wher eAWD kicks in, but on short quick transitions, like a twisty road the TL-S being lighter and more stiffly sprung will be more fun and agile.
bang for the buck - the TL-S with current discounts and incentives would be a much better buy.
unless you think whe the 09s actually show up the 08s will deprecite horribly...
2008 TL-S is only FWD, 286 hp, but it weighs about 3600 lbs.
so roughly 20 more hp, but 400 more pounds AND more driveline drag from AWD.
Questions:
1) In a drag or a rolling start race, or freeway passing - which is faster?
2) given that the new TL will not be a "type S" and may be sprung softer, which will really handle better?
3) which will be more FUN to drive
4) which looks better???
if you were buying NOW - and you could get a TL-S for about $33,000 + TTL or wait a couple of months to see what they would sell a new TL SH-AWD for - WHAT WOULD IT SELL FOR and would it be worth that extra money... assuming it probably will NOT be discounted down to $33k...
I think the TL-S is faster. the SH-AWD will handle better on long sweepers wher eAWD kicks in, but on short quick transitions, like a twisty road the TL-S being lighter and more stiffly sprung will be more fun and agile.
bang for the buck - the TL-S with current discounts and incentives would be a much better buy.
unless you think whe the 09s actually show up the 08s will deprecite horribly...
How do you know the '08 is "more stiffly sprung" than the '09?
My '07 TL-S automatic is neither "stiffly sprung" nor "fun and agile." It's a nice car, but it is not a PERFORMANCE sedan. Rather, it's an entry level luxury sedan with a few "sporty" attributes.
The '09's brakes along with make a very real difference in daily driving. They'll feel much more reassuring at all speeds.
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08-13-2008, 12:18 AM
#8
07 TL-S
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400lbs and awd is going to make the car feel slower than it really is. to answer your questions:
1. probably tl-s
2. i drove a base prelude for a long time, and also got the chance to try the sh. honestly i couldn't feel any difference, even trying it on a solo 2 course. softer springs won't help, but also you have to consider body rigidity, sway bars, ect. so who knows. but again, the extra weight is a huge disadvantage.
3. probably tl-s
4. 100% tl-s
1. probably tl-s
2. i drove a base prelude for a long time, and also got the chance to try the sh. honestly i couldn't feel any difference, even trying it on a solo 2 course. softer springs won't help, but also you have to consider body rigidity, sway bars, ect. so who knows. but again, the extra weight is a huge disadvantage.
3. probably tl-s
4. 100% tl-s
08-13-2008, 12:07 PM
#9
Drifting
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
The '09 will be a much better balanced, better driving car than the '08 although it won't be as fast as an '07 - '08 TL-S 6 speed manual.
How do you know the '08 is "more stiffly sprung" than the '09?
My '07 TL-S automatic is neither "stiffly sprung" nor "fun and agile." It's a nice car, but it is not a PERFORMANCE sedan. Rather, it's an entry level luxury sedan with a few "sporty" attributes.
The '09's brakes along with make a very real difference in daily driving. They'll feel much more reassuring at all speeds.
How do you know the '08 is "more stiffly sprung" than the '09?
My '07 TL-S automatic is neither "stiffly sprung" nor "fun and agile." It's a nice car, but it is not a PERFORMANCE sedan. Rather, it's an entry level luxury sedan with a few "sporty" attributes.
The '09's brakes along with make a very real difference in daily driving. They'll feel much more reassuring at all speeds.
286 hp. VTEC motor, and in my opinion, yes it is stiffly sprung. not stiff like a porsche, but stiffer than my dad's RL.
It is not a hardcore performance car, but having driven a lot of cars, I believe it is a very sporty feeling and fun to drive entry level luxury car. You can get way more sportiness for more money - but for what you pay and what you get, it's not a bad car at all and it certainly is sporty and performance oriented. it's just not "hard core".
the new TL seems even less performance oriented to me. it has AWD, but so does an RL and that's NOT sporty at all. the new TL seems more oriented toward the people who woud buy a GS or 5 series. larger, heavier, more interior space.
the guy who would buy a 2008 TL-S is not necessarily the same guy who would buy a 2009 TL SH-AWD. I see the 2008 TL-S buyer looking at the 2009 TSX. the guy shopping the 09 TL will be shopping the lexus GS, 5 series (lower end motors, not 550), etc.
it's moving more luxury and less sporty at least IMHO.
08-14-2008, 06:57 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by 23109VC
I disagree that the TL-S is not a performance sedan.
My '07 TL Type S is flinty over high frequency irregularities, yet the front end still floats and bobs when the car is pushed.
Stopping power is pathetic by REAL performance sedan standards and by "stopping power" I am not referring to one or two quick stops from 70 MPH or so, where virtually any modern car can lock all four wheels.
My TL-S (automatic) is definitely SLOWER than the '06 Accord V6/6 speed coupe I had before it.
08-14-2008, 10:41 AM
#11
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It’s simple why you feel this way. You have the 5AT slushbox (take 0.5s off 0-60 and 1/4mile), you car weighs almost 200lbs more than the 6MT model. 6Mt model has much closer gearing. I have a feel you don’t have the optional summer tires. And your car also does not have LSD.
And I guess it depends on your definition of “performance sedan” too. 23109 already explained his definition very well, that’s why he disagreed with you. He said the TL-S is definitely not in the same league as M3, S4, AMG C63, etc. He also said it’s not as performance oriented as the 335i, G35, and IS350. His said the TL-S is sportier than say the Camry and Accord.
It’s not a surprised that the TL-S AT is slower than the 6MT Accord. Hell, even the TL-S 6MT is slower than the 8th gen AV6 6MT in the Ľ mile. But in terms of track performance, the TL-S 6MT is pretty solid, beating both G35S and IS350 at Willow Springs by two seconds (which is a huge margin in the world of racing). Perhaps you also don’t consider the G and IS performance sedans?
And I guess it depends on your definition of “performance sedan” too. 23109 already explained his definition very well, that’s why he disagreed with you. He said the TL-S is definitely not in the same league as M3, S4, AMG C63, etc. He also said it’s not as performance oriented as the 335i, G35, and IS350. His said the TL-S is sportier than say the Camry and Accord.
It’s not a surprised that the TL-S AT is slower than the 6MT Accord. Hell, even the TL-S 6MT is slower than the 8th gen AV6 6MT in the Ľ mile. But in terms of track performance, the TL-S 6MT is pretty solid, beating both G35S and IS350 at Willow Springs by two seconds (which is a huge margin in the world of racing). Perhaps you also don’t consider the G and IS performance sedans?
08-14-2008, 01:25 PM
#14
Drifting
Thread Starter
I totally agree that a 335, 535, 550 would spank the crap out of a TL-S, and the M3 would demolish it.
have you priced a new M3 vs a TL-S? I can get a brand new TL-S for $32,500. I have the quote in my hand. A new M3 is $60k+. A 335i with nav, sport package (optoined like a TL-S) is also far far more expensive. probalby close to $45-48k. Yes, it is far faster, and far more expensive.
I have driven a 335, a relative owns one. I was really anxious to get one, but it's too small in the back seats for my needs. The TL is quite a bit roomier in the rear - wider and more leg room.
there is always a better car out there if you are willing to spend more money.
the TL-S in not, has never been, and will never be a monster bad a$$ sports sedan. It is a nice 4 door sedan, that has a little dose of "fun" injected into it. drive it at 7/10s on a twisty road and it's kind of fun. push it hard on a track and you will reveal it's weaknesses. will it handle as well as a 335. NO way. will it accelerate as fast. NO way. is it still fun to drive and will it go around corners nicely - yes. if you really want performance for a good deal, then just get an EVO.
i plan to buy a car to daily drive in. not track. i want something that can fit my kids in the back. i want nav, BT phone, creature comforts. i want a reliable car that will be under warranty. i want a car that is fun to drive and feels sporty. the TL-S does all that and I can get a new one for a bit over $30k.
the tl wins on the value end of things. the bmw wins on the performance end. that's obvious.
i still consider it a sports sedan, just not the best one if you focus solely on 0-60/ 1/4 mile, slalom speed and lateral g's. If you factor all that in AND factor luxury appointments and price - it's a pretty good car.
the original point of this thread, however, was not to pit the TL against better more expensive cars like the 335 and 550 - but to ask whether the new 09 TL with SH-AWD and 305 hp, but 400 more lbs to haul around is really going to be faster/better handling than the outgoing model? and additionally when you factor in value - is the 08 a good deal or not?
I'm thining of getting an 08 TL-S. I had considered waiting for the 09s..then I saw how they looked..
one thing I kept reading was that the new TL would have MORE POWER - aming me think - now it will be a "real" sports sedan, moreso than the 08s. but when i saw the curb weight went up 400 lbs...kind of made me think the new car, while it will have AWD - is going to be quite a bit heavier.
bang for the buck - for a nice luxury sedan, for a good value, I tend to think if someone is in the market to buy now, or could wait, and you aren't in love with the new looks - the 08s are a pretty good value.
you can get the TL-S for $32,5. I have an offeron the table from multiple dealers at that price. i doubt we will see the new SH-AWD version that cheap..at least not for a while.
the ONLY thing I could foresee would be residuals being higher and therefore maybe on a lease - you could et into the new one for similar money as an 08?
08s have 2500 incentives and are selling at/below invoice. but the residual is pretty low. 10k / year gets you only 52% n a Type S.
have you priced a new M3 vs a TL-S? I can get a brand new TL-S for $32,500. I have the quote in my hand. A new M3 is $60k+. A 335i with nav, sport package (optoined like a TL-S) is also far far more expensive. probalby close to $45-48k. Yes, it is far faster, and far more expensive.
I have driven a 335, a relative owns one. I was really anxious to get one, but it's too small in the back seats for my needs. The TL is quite a bit roomier in the rear - wider and more leg room.
there is always a better car out there if you are willing to spend more money.
the TL-S in not, has never been, and will never be a monster bad a$$ sports sedan. It is a nice 4 door sedan, that has a little dose of "fun" injected into it. drive it at 7/10s on a twisty road and it's kind of fun. push it hard on a track and you will reveal it's weaknesses. will it handle as well as a 335. NO way. will it accelerate as fast. NO way. is it still fun to drive and will it go around corners nicely - yes. if you really want performance for a good deal, then just get an EVO.
i plan to buy a car to daily drive in. not track. i want something that can fit my kids in the back. i want nav, BT phone, creature comforts. i want a reliable car that will be under warranty. i want a car that is fun to drive and feels sporty. the TL-S does all that and I can get a new one for a bit over $30k.
the tl wins on the value end of things. the bmw wins on the performance end. that's obvious.
i still consider it a sports sedan, just not the best one if you focus solely on 0-60/ 1/4 mile, slalom speed and lateral g's. If you factor all that in AND factor luxury appointments and price - it's a pretty good car.
the original point of this thread, however, was not to pit the TL against better more expensive cars like the 335 and 550 - but to ask whether the new 09 TL with SH-AWD and 305 hp, but 400 more lbs to haul around is really going to be faster/better handling than the outgoing model? and additionally when you factor in value - is the 08 a good deal or not?
I'm thining of getting an 08 TL-S. I had considered waiting for the 09s..then I saw how they looked..
one thing I kept reading was that the new TL would have MORE POWER - aming me think - now it will be a "real" sports sedan, moreso than the 08s. but when i saw the curb weight went up 400 lbs...kind of made me think the new car, while it will have AWD - is going to be quite a bit heavier.
bang for the buck - for a nice luxury sedan, for a good value, I tend to think if someone is in the market to buy now, or could wait, and you aren't in love with the new looks - the 08s are a pretty good value.
you can get the TL-S for $32,5. I have an offeron the table from multiple dealers at that price. i doubt we will see the new SH-AWD version that cheap..at least not for a while.
the ONLY thing I could foresee would be residuals being higher and therefore maybe on a lease - you could et into the new one for similar money as an 08?
08s have 2500 incentives and are selling at/below invoice. but the residual is pretty low. 10k / year gets you only 52% n a Type S.
08-14-2008, 02:47 PM
#16
Senior Moderator
Why dont you come ask these questions when its not all speculation and they are out and available for test drives and comparisons. Right now all this is is guessing.
08-14-2008, 02:56 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by 23109VC
2009 TL SH-AWD will have 305 hp.but it weighs about 4000 lbs.
2008 TL-S is only FWD, 286 hp, but it weighs about 3600 lbs.
so roughly 20 more hp, but 400 more pounds AND more driveline drag from AWD.
Questions:
1) In a drag or a rolling start race, or freeway passing - which is faster?
2) given that the new TL will not be a "type S" and may be sprung softer, which will really handle better?
3) which will be more FUN to drive
4) which looks better???
if you were buying NOW - and you could get a TL-S for about $33,000 + TTL or wait a couple of months to see what they would sell a new TL SH-AWD for - WHAT WOULD IT SELL FOR and would it be worth that extra money... assuming it probably will NOT be discounted down to $33k...
I think the TL-S is faster. the SH-AWD will handle better on long sweepers wher eAWD kicks in, but on short quick transitions, like a twisty road the TL-S being lighter and more stiffly sprung will be more fun and agile.
bang for the buck - the TL-S with current discounts and incentives would be a much better buy.
unless you think whe the 09s actually show up the 08s will deprecite horribly...
2008 TL-S is only FWD, 286 hp, but it weighs about 3600 lbs.
so roughly 20 more hp, but 400 more pounds AND more driveline drag from AWD.
Questions:
1) In a drag or a rolling start race, or freeway passing - which is faster?
2) given that the new TL will not be a "type S" and may be sprung softer, which will really handle better?
3) which will be more FUN to drive
4) which looks better???
if you were buying NOW - and you could get a TL-S for about $33,000 + TTL or wait a couple of months to see what they would sell a new TL SH-AWD for - WHAT WOULD IT SELL FOR and would it be worth that extra money... assuming it probably will NOT be discounted down to $33k...
I think the TL-S is faster. the SH-AWD will handle better on long sweepers wher eAWD kicks in, but on short quick transitions, like a twisty road the TL-S being lighter and more stiffly sprung will be more fun and agile.
bang for the buck - the TL-S with current discounts and incentives would be a much better buy.
unless you think whe the 09s actually show up the 08s will deprecite horribly...
Based on lbs/hp, the 4G is looking at about 13.1 lbs/hp while the 3G is at 12.6 lbs/hp. Mathematically, it seems like the 3G TLS would be the winner.
08-14-2008, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
Why dont you come ask these questions when its not all speculation and they are out and available for test drives and comparisons. Right now all this is is guessing.
Don't take that away from them!!!!!
08-14-2008, 03:29 PM
#19
Team Owner
Originally Posted by 23109VC
I totally agree that a 335, 535, 550 would spank the crap out of a TL-S, and the M3 would demolish it.
have you priced a new M3 vs a TL-S? I can get a brand new TL-S for $32,500. I have the quote in my hand. A new M3 is $60k+. A 335i with nav, sport package (optoined like a TL-S) is also far far more expensive. probalby close to $45-48k. Yes, it is far faster, and far more expensive.
I have driven a 335, a relative owns one. I was really anxious to get one, but it's too small in the back seats for my needs. The TL is quite a bit roomier in the rear - wider and more leg room.
there is always a better car out there if you are willing to spend more money.
the TL-S in not, has never been, and will never be a monster bad a$$ sports sedan. It is a nice 4 door sedan, that has a little dose of "fun" injected into it. drive it at 7/10s on a twisty road and it's kind of fun. push it hard on a track and you will reveal it's weaknesses. will it handle as well as a 335. NO way. will it accelerate as fast. NO way. is it still fun to drive and will it go around corners nicely - yes. if you really want performance for a good deal, then just get an EVO.
i plan to buy a car to daily drive in. not track. i want something that can fit my kids in the back. i want nav, BT phone, creature comforts. i want a reliable car that will be under warranty. i want a car that is fun to drive and feels sporty. the TL-S does all that and I can get a new one for a bit over $30k.
the tl wins on the value end of things. the bmw wins on the performance end. that's obvious.
i still consider it a sports sedan, just not the best one if you focus solely on 0-60/ 1/4 mile, slalom speed and lateral g's. If you factor all that in AND factor luxury appointments and price - it's a pretty good car.
the original point of this thread, however, was not to pit the TL against better more expensive cars like the 335 and 550 - but to ask whether the new 09 TL with SH-AWD and 305 hp, but 400 more lbs to haul around is really going to be faster/better handling than the outgoing model? and additionally when you factor in value - is the 08 a good deal or not?
I'm thining of getting an 08 TL-S. I had considered waiting for the 09s..then I saw how they looked..
one thing I kept reading was that the new TL would have MORE POWER - aming me think - now it will be a "real" sports sedan, moreso than the 08s. but when i saw the curb weight went up 400 lbs...kind of made me think the new car, while it will have AWD - is going to be quite a bit heavier.
bang for the buck - for a nice luxury sedan, for a good value, I tend to think if someone is in the market to buy now, or could wait, and you aren't in love with the new looks - the 08s are a pretty good value.
you can get the TL-S for $32,5. I have an offeron the table from multiple dealers at that price. i doubt we will see the new SH-AWD version that cheap..at least not for a while.
the ONLY thing I could foresee would be residuals being higher and therefore maybe on a lease - you could et into the new one for similar money as an 08?
08s have 2500 incentives and are selling at/below invoice. but the residual is pretty low. 10k / year gets you only 52% n a Type S.
have you priced a new M3 vs a TL-S? I can get a brand new TL-S for $32,500. I have the quote in my hand. A new M3 is $60k+. A 335i with nav, sport package (optoined like a TL-S) is also far far more expensive. probalby close to $45-48k. Yes, it is far faster, and far more expensive.
I have driven a 335, a relative owns one. I was really anxious to get one, but it's too small in the back seats for my needs. The TL is quite a bit roomier in the rear - wider and more leg room.
there is always a better car out there if you are willing to spend more money.
the TL-S in not, has never been, and will never be a monster bad a$$ sports sedan. It is a nice 4 door sedan, that has a little dose of "fun" injected into it. drive it at 7/10s on a twisty road and it's kind of fun. push it hard on a track and you will reveal it's weaknesses. will it handle as well as a 335. NO way. will it accelerate as fast. NO way. is it still fun to drive and will it go around corners nicely - yes. if you really want performance for a good deal, then just get an EVO.
i plan to buy a car to daily drive in. not track. i want something that can fit my kids in the back. i want nav, BT phone, creature comforts. i want a reliable car that will be under warranty. i want a car that is fun to drive and feels sporty. the TL-S does all that and I can get a new one for a bit over $30k.
the tl wins on the value end of things. the bmw wins on the performance end. that's obvious.
i still consider it a sports sedan, just not the best one if you focus solely on 0-60/ 1/4 mile, slalom speed and lateral g's. If you factor all that in AND factor luxury appointments and price - it's a pretty good car.
the original point of this thread, however, was not to pit the TL against better more expensive cars like the 335 and 550 - but to ask whether the new 09 TL with SH-AWD and 305 hp, but 400 more lbs to haul around is really going to be faster/better handling than the outgoing model? and additionally when you factor in value - is the 08 a good deal or not?
I'm thining of getting an 08 TL-S. I had considered waiting for the 09s..then I saw how they looked..
one thing I kept reading was that the new TL would have MORE POWER - aming me think - now it will be a "real" sports sedan, moreso than the 08s. but when i saw the curb weight went up 400 lbs...kind of made me think the new car, while it will have AWD - is going to be quite a bit heavier.
bang for the buck - for a nice luxury sedan, for a good value, I tend to think if someone is in the market to buy now, or could wait, and you aren't in love with the new looks - the 08s are a pretty good value.
you can get the TL-S for $32,5. I have an offeron the table from multiple dealers at that price. i doubt we will see the new SH-AWD version that cheap..at least not for a while.
the ONLY thing I could foresee would be residuals being higher and therefore maybe on a lease - you could et into the new one for similar money as an 08?
08s have 2500 incentives and are selling at/below invoice. but the residual is pretty low. 10k / year gets you only 52% n a Type S.
Harddrivin has an agenda and is not capable of reason or logic so don't waste your time discussing it with him.
My personal opinion is Acura screwed up. I won't comment on the looks because it's subjective. I don't like the fact that they added more power, bigger brakes, and AWD just to cancel it out with the extra weight and maybe break even with the performance of the 3G and then sell them for more money.
Right now performance is speculation but I think we all agree that the 3G and 4G are going to be pretty close in performance.
08-14-2008, 05:41 PM
#20
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i'm looking at this situation from the perspective of a potential buyer. i want to save money and pay as little as possible - don't we all?? i want a fun car, a nice looking car but needs to be practical, reliable, etc. I want to have it all...if i were rich, i'd get an M5 and I WOULD have it all.
I want a luxurious quality car. so crap like the G8, while fast, is not for me.
I'm happy with a TL-S. I'm just curious how good the new car will be - and honestly I think it's kind of an apples/oranges comparison. the new car is heavier, bigger, and maybe not in the same class.
i have got dealers down to 32,300 for a brand new Type S. i seriously doubt i can swing a new TL that cheap....
for the money - i think a 2008 TL-S would be a better buy than waiting for the new TL. unless you like the new look. i'm sure some people will.
I want a luxurious quality car. so crap like the G8, while fast, is not for me.
I'm happy with a TL-S. I'm just curious how good the new car will be - and honestly I think it's kind of an apples/oranges comparison. the new car is heavier, bigger, and maybe not in the same class.
i have got dealers down to 32,300 for a brand new Type S. i seriously doubt i can swing a new TL that cheap....
for the money - i think a 2008 TL-S would be a better buy than waiting for the new TL. unless you like the new look. i'm sure some people will.
08-14-2008, 10:52 PM
#22
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23109VC, get the TL-S if you are looking for a great deal. Like I said, its performance and handling is on par, if not better than its main competitors in the segment. Not sure if it can beat 335i at a track. All I know is that the TL-S has been proven to beat both G35 and IS350 at Willow Springs by 2 massive seconds, while in a Best Motoring video, the G35 edged out the 335i (the 335i had a faster lap time though, by less than 1 second) on Tsukuba. You can't make direct comparison with and 335i and TL-S since they were driven by different drivers on different days on different tracks, but it sort of give you an idea of the capability of the TL-S.
08-15-2008, 06:26 AM
#23
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I too say get the TL-S.
the 09 TL will probably have bugs in it like every other first year model.
At least the 07-08 TL-S they have all the bugs worked out...plus thats a hell of a price for a 08 TL-S.
the 09 TL will probably have bugs in it like every other first year model.
At least the 07-08 TL-S they have all the bugs worked out...plus thats a hell of a price for a 08 TL-S.
08-15-2008, 06:41 AM
#24
Originally Posted by 23109VC
the new TL seems even less performance oriented to me. it has AWD, but so does an RL and that's NOT sporty at all. the new TL seems more oriented toward the people who woud buy a GS or 5 series. larger, heavier, more interior space.
the guy who would buy a 2008 TL-S is not necessarily the same guy who would buy a 2009 TL SH-AWD. I see the 2008 TL-S buyer looking at the 2009 TSX. the guy shopping the 09 TL will be shopping the lexus GS, 5 series (lower end motors, not 550), etc.
it's moving more luxury and less sporty at least IMHO.
the guy who would buy a 2008 TL-S is not necessarily the same guy who would buy a 2009 TL SH-AWD. I see the 2008 TL-S buyer looking at the 2009 TSX. the guy shopping the 09 TL will be shopping the lexus GS, 5 series (lower end motors, not 550), etc.
it's moving more luxury and less sporty at least IMHO.
My thoughts exactly. I have actually played with the idea of trading down from my TL-S to a TSX (with a larger engine) when the time comes to trade. The TSX's engine is the only real drawback for me at this point. I also agree that the TL does seem to be moving upmarket, but how will Acura convince the critics to compare it to the GS350, 535, E350, M35? I don't know if Acura has the right marketers on board at the moment to pull it off.
08-15-2008, 09:13 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by 23109VC
i'm looking at this situation from the perspective of a potential buyer. i want to save money and pay as little as possible - don't we all?? i want a fun car, a nice looking car but needs to be practical, reliable, etc. I want to have it all...if i were rich, i'd get an M5 and I WOULD have it all.
I want a luxurious quality car. so crap like the G8, while fast, is not for me.
I'm happy with a TL-S. I'm just curious how good the new car will be - and honestly I think it's kind of an apples/oranges comparison. the new car is heavier, bigger, and maybe not in the same class.
i have got dealers down to 32,300 for a brand new Type S. i seriously doubt i can swing a new TL that cheap....
for the money - i think a 2008 TL-S would be a better buy than waiting for the new TL. unless you like the new look. i'm sure some people will.
I want a luxurious quality car. so crap like the G8, while fast, is not for me.
I'm happy with a TL-S. I'm just curious how good the new car will be - and honestly I think it's kind of an apples/oranges comparison. the new car is heavier, bigger, and maybe not in the same class.
i have got dealers down to 32,300 for a brand new Type S. i seriously doubt i can swing a new TL that cheap....
for the money - i think a 2008 TL-S would be a better buy than waiting for the new TL. unless you like the new look. i'm sure some people will.
Nobody knows how good the car will be, so the only way to find out is to wait at least few months after new model is out on sale. The 09s won't be sold at under invoice like 3rd gen TL for sure, so expect to pay sticker for a new model. IMHO TL is not worth 42 grand even with AWD. If you are really itching to buy a car right now, get a slightly used TL and wait 2 yrs til the prices on 4th gen TL will come down., otherwise take a hard look at competitors' models.
08-15-2008, 11:56 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by Kostyan
Nobody knows how good the car will be, so the only way to find out is to wait at least few months after new model is out on sale. The 09s won't be sold at under invoice like 3rd gen TL for sure, so expect to pay sticker for a new model. IMHO TL is not worth 42 grand even with AWD. If you are really itching to buy a car right now, get a slightly used TL and wait 2 yrs til the prices on 4th gen TL will come down., otherwise take a hard look at competitors' models.
08-15-2008, 12:45 PM
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Why don't you lease a 2008 TLS for 3 yrs.
This way you'll be able to:
1. have a better idea of how the 4G is with more thorough auto reviews coming in .
2. wait for Acura to fix the inevitable bugs that are there in the 4G in its early years;
3. get a hold of a 3G before they are gone.
This way if the 4G turns out to be well received in more thorough reviews, you can ditch the 3G after your lease ends and get a 4G with no bugs. If the 4G doesn't turn in good numbers on the tracks, buy your 3G after its lease ends.
This way you'll be able to:
1. have a better idea of how the 4G is with more thorough auto reviews coming in .
2. wait for Acura to fix the inevitable bugs that are there in the 4G in its early years;
3. get a hold of a 3G before they are gone.
This way if the 4G turns out to be well received in more thorough reviews, you can ditch the 3G after your lease ends and get a 4G with no bugs. If the 4G doesn't turn in good numbers on the tracks, buy your 3G after its lease ends.
08-15-2008, 07:54 PM
#29
In your position, I would buy the 08 TL-S. I bought one a few weeks ago for $33,200, so it looks like they've come down more. I would buy now, inventory of the Type S is getting low in many regions, so if you are looking for a specific color I'd get it while you can find one. The 2 local dealers here only have 6 of the TL-S between them.
When the 09's come out, you can forget about getting much off, they will probably be selling for close to full MSRP. Don't expect any dealer cash incentives, doesn't happen on brand new models that are just released. I wouldn't buy any car on it's initial release, you are asking for bugs out the a$$ and initially the dealers might not have any fixes for them.
As for the BMW comments, I drove 5 different 3 series before I bought the TL, all were to small for me, and BMW nickle and dimes you to death on the options. Yes the base prices are comparible to the TL, but after you tack stuff on to the BMW to match the TL's equip level you are talking $45k.
When the 09's come out, you can forget about getting much off, they will probably be selling for close to full MSRP. Don't expect any dealer cash incentives, doesn't happen on brand new models that are just released. I wouldn't buy any car on it's initial release, you are asking for bugs out the a$$ and initially the dealers might not have any fixes for them.
As for the BMW comments, I drove 5 different 3 series before I bought the TL, all were to small for me, and BMW nickle and dimes you to death on the options. Yes the base prices are comparible to the TL, but after you tack stuff on to the BMW to match the TL's equip level you are talking $45k.
08-15-2008, 11:03 PM
#30
Racer
Originally Posted by dr_brains510
23109VC, I think your best choice is getting a brand new Type S for that AWESOME deal!!
I though about grabbing a 3G Type S with 6MT this month.
Has anyone seen any at other dealers?
08-16-2008, 10:41 AM
#31
Originally Posted by Hugh9269
I was told by 3 dealers they are in very short supply in midwest... bummer!
I though about grabbing a 3G Type S with 6MT this month.
Has anyone seen any at other dealers?
I though about grabbing a 3G Type S with 6MT this month.
Has anyone seen any at other dealers?
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