23109VC

My wife's MDX went in for some service the other day, and she was given a brand new TL SH-AWD loaner. naturally, I was anxious to drive it and compare it to my 09.

For the most part, it seemed identical. Of course MINE is WDP..the BEST color one can get a TL in... hahah. this one was black, with black interior. My TL has 19" wheels, whereas this one had 18" wheels.

right away, I could tell the ride was slightly more compliant in the newer car.. likely because it had 18" wheels vs my 19s. honestly, I Like the ride in my car much better. I like the way my car is firm and feels stiff. My wife thinks my TL is "too hard and bumpy".. but she also says she can "see why I like it"..

the interior feels identical except the door pulls on the newer one look more chrome. I also thought the steering wheel shifter paddles felt more plasticy and cheap on the newer car whereas on my 09 they felt more metallic and solid... are they different or really the same?? I didn't go back to back in the cars to compare them.. I just remember thinking that the paddles on the 2013 felt different than mine and I thought they felt cheaper... more flimsy feeling when I clicked off shifts. it could must be subjective..and it could just be smal variances in feel from car to car..

ok.. now to performance.. while the handling seemed better in my car..because the wheels are better... the acceleration in the 2013 seemed better.

when I hammered the gas in the 2013.. I felt like it seemed a bit quicker. where i Noticed it the most was in the shift into gear 3. in the newer car, it seemed like 3rd gear pulled harder and quicker. I'm assumign that with the new 6 speed auto - that the gears are shorter..so it pulls through then faster?

it could also be becaues my car is older, needs a tune up? and the loaner was relatively new? My car has about 39k miles on it. (not bad for a 2009 that is 5 years old???!!)

overall.. i liked the 2013, but I liked the ride in my car better. I"m glad I got a car with 19s... if I had endless funds, I'd put on a set of 20" vossens... yeah they are played out, but they look good and I'd probably enjoy th eeven stiffer ride.

not long ago, my wife had her car in for another minor service and we had a FWD TL as a loaner. I drov ethat car and man did it suck. the steering wheel felt skinny and wimpy and while it was relatively quick.. it had so much torque steer and under steer I absolutely HATED it. sorry to you FWD guys.. but no way in the world would I buy a FWD TL. maybe with coilovers, and nice wheels/tires you could overcome the torque steer and understeer.. but bone stock the FWD sucks ass.

SH-AWD vs FWD.... they aren't even in the same league.

now if I could only get a new NSX as a loaner sometime... I"d never give it back...

Mr Marco

yep...5-Speed vs 6-Speed

wreak

Being the owner of a 12' FWD I don't agree at all that they "suck". Torque steer with the oem 17" wheels was minimal, I never found myself fighting the wheel. After I upgraded to stickier 19" tires and wheels it has almost no torque steer at all. I also found that while the car obviously can't compete with the sh-awd in the twisties, it's still a performance sedan and holds it's own with a nice set of grippy tires. It's also faster in a straight line than the sh-awd which is kind of silly if you ask me. You'd think Acura would compensate with enough hp/tq to ensure the "sportier" SH-AWD model could actually outrun the FWD in a drag race, but they didn't. For me (95% city driver) the SH-AWD makes no sense, now if I had to carve a canyon on my way to work every morning...

As far as the paddles go, the newer models have a rubberized coating on them, perhaps thats the difference you noticed. Any improvements in acceleration/mpg are from the new 6spd transmission.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

Wreak where are you getting this info that the FWD is quicker in a straight line?

erdoc48

i actually drove a '12 for a few days while my TL was in the shop last year (FWD)- no complaints- it seemed to drive very nicely and never experienced any torque steer- had decent power as well.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^which one is heavier?


he's right. the extra "oomph" they added isnt enough. it barely negates the extra weight.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

Ofc the fwd is lighter, I just want to see where he's getting these numbers from. A lot of people think the more dramatic the start, the faster car. When in fact that's rarely true in a drag race. AWD acceleration is almost boring, fwd feels as though you're having to tame all those horses.

Edward'TLS

Even though the AWD TL may not be faster than the FWD TL in a straight line, but still the FWD TL will NOT be faster than the AWD.

Let's see some official 0-60 numbers.

dcdriver

The door handles from the inside of the 09-11 TL's are plastic. The ones from the 12-14 TL's are made of metal.

Also in the navigation unit, there is a phone button on the lower right areas in the 12-14 TL's.

Then the 12-14 TL's offer the Advance Package which the 09-11 TL's didn't.

I don't notice any major difference with paddle shifter quality.

dirtyo2000

Looking over all the numbers and times the sh - awd is posting the quickest. Not sure why you don't think the 3.7 isn't capable of dealing with the extra weight. I understand weight plays a factor but we're not talking rolling resistance.

dirtyo2000

http://www.autorooster.com/0-60-times/acura/acura-tl/

Over the years the shawd is quicker than the base model. Something to say for the 3.7

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

Exactly. Butt dyno's play a large part in determining what's quicker.

wreak

Nice how that site posts MT shawd numbers for the shawd. Base AT vs shawd AT straight line base will win.

23109VC

a FWD TL is still a nice car... and in normal daily driving, the torque steer is not noticeable. if you hammer the crap out of the gas.. yes it is noticable and I don't care for it.

I did notice the "phone" button.

i like how the 09-11 TL's LOOK... I like the 6 speed auto in the newer one. the best of both worlds would be a 2010-2011 6 MT.

amill

Alot of people on this board own 6mt models. Who cares which is faster? Also, anyone concerned about enjoying a "true driving experience" will pick a manual transmission when available.

types1fan

I've had both, I had a 09 FWD and now a 12 AWD, I had the 09 with 20 inch rims and eibach springs, now I have the 12 with 20's on coils. Without pounding the gas the 09 FWD it pealed out faster than the 12 but then the 12 would start pulling hard and catch and pass the 09. This is what I felt owning both models.

probmxstyle

Peeled out faster? Not sure what that means, but it's obvious that the fwd will peel out and the awd model won't. Has nothing to do with quickness.

types1fan

I should of phrased it differently, the AWD specially on the 6 spd auto has a slight hesitation when you accelerate and the FWD just responds quicker, Also I don't know if the 5 spd auto behaves differently to the 6 spd auto, less gears in the 09. As I said it felt quicker out the line maybe by 1/2 car length then the AWD should catch and pass the FWD.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

the six speed auto would be faster and geared better than the 5at.....

potmilkz

hmm.. fwd vs awd

well reason behind that is because fwd is lighter.. simple fact.. thus its faster off the line.. but awd for obvious reasons will catch up

dirtyo2000

I would love to see someone try a race instead of the butt dyno. I play with mine and have raced quite a few. If you floor the sh you will get a slight hesitation can't deny that. Just quickly mash it and it pulls out quicker than any fwd.

Ran a 6 speed fwd and his car sound great with the tire spin leaving and 2nd gear chirp. All the while he was behind from the change of the light. Just because you feel violent taking off doesn't make it fast. When your by yourself your mind and butt dyno gives crazy info. Doubt them go to the track. More HP and TQ (which gets things moving).

Your trying to make it seem like the car is 500 lbs heavier. Ever put both in neutral and push from the rear? Only difference I could try and feel was the friction from the rear housing and shafts and had to convince myself of that. Top it off the 3.7 makes TQ lower in the rpm band then the 3.5. Your not going to run it down and definitely not beating it off the line.

Keep playing around with the peel outs and you'll be explaining why the cv joints are shot prematurely

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

^^

Agreed. I have a few FWD kills myself, but my car is far from stock so I don't boast about it. High power Merc's have some of the most violent take off's and I can't think of one that's faster to 60 than it's Audi/BMW equivalent.

types1fan

I'm not speed racer or anything close so I would doubt that I would damage anything on my car, I've pressed hard to see how the car feels under hard acceleration, I did say the AWD is faster, it only looses momentum out the line due to the slight hesitation because of the AWD.

wreak

I don't think you can say the AWD will out perform the FWD from a dig because you have some street racing kills. You'd have way too many variables in that setting, were you both in "S" mode, did the other guy actually take off at the same time, did you both go full throttle, and so on. I don't think it's just the added 250+lbs that hinders the acceleration of the AWD model it's probably also the additional drivetrain loss you would encounter with a AWD drivetrain.

I'm not saying the FWD is going to leave an AWD in it's dust or anything but do I think a 0-30mph sprint will have the FWD out in front...hard to say exactly where/when the AWD would catch up but obviously it would once it got the 4 tons of weight moving along.

Buffa

Agreed. When I first got my AWD, it took a while to get used to the acceleration. The slight hesitation and no wheelspin made the car feel much slower than it is. Plus, looking at the 0-60 times website posted by dirtyo2000, there is really only about 1/2 second difference between the two. These times seem accurate, reading the car mag reviews over the years. I can see how the FWD may feel faster even though technically it's not. Had one as a loaner once too. Much lighter feel.

lji

Another difference between the '09-'10 to '12-'13's is the feel of the aluminium strip running on both interior edges of the dash. The early models have a better feel.

Mr Marco

I've heard that comment before from a review of the 4G MMC

TeamAcura

+'12 interior features and improvements

http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/ar...spx?id=5930-en

+'12 list of all features and specs

http://www.honda.com/search/?s=2012%...l#newsandviews

types1fan

Coudnt agree more with you on that, I've thought about replacing the aluminium strip from the 09-11 with the trim piece of my 12.

acuratitus

The front wheel drive weighs 3,726lbs divided by 280 hp equals 13.31 pounds of car per horsepower. The AWD weighs 3968lbs divided by 305 hp equals 13.01 pounds of car per horsepower. This would means there is more horsepower per pound in the AWD version.
When I tested the front wheel drive version and the awd version, the awd version was faster. I thought the difference was that the awd may feel less fast as the wheels don't spin like the front wheels do with traction control off.
Besides, awd is always faster than the fwd with a similar car, as someone mentioned earlier, the weight of the car shifts rearward with acceleration which means less traction with the tires. The AWD also has firmer suspension which should help with acceleration. Better tires in the front for fwd car doesn't make that much of a difference compared to a awd or rwd car because the weight shift to the back of the car provides more traction for awd/rwd than it does for fwd. Why do you think the nascar and indy cars are rear wheel drive?
If you look at the infinit g37x (awd) versus g37 (rwd), the rwd is slightly faster due to less weight since they have identical engines. Kind of nice that acura put the larger engine in the awd to compensate for the weight.
I'd recommend you go to the dealer and try the awd with traction control off, and shifted into the S gear, and see the results. Funny side note, my salesman was so stupid that he never told me that the S position was for quicker acceleration. I was testing the acceleration from a stop and he never told me to try the S position instead of D. I hate unknowledgeable sales people.

jim_c

I think you are correct with the suggestion that the power to rate ratio holds the answer. The 13.3 vs. 13.1 is actually not much of a difference.
But it's not really a worthwhile debate; the two setups (AWD vs FWD) are totally different.

As teamacura posted above in post 28, there is a lot of technical detail at the Honda or Acura dot come site. The transmission and torque converter were changed significantly in 2012 and although the AWD and the FWD cars both have a 6AT now, the transmissions are not the same.

TC2010shawd

Can someone post pics showing the difference on the dash trim between the 9-11 and the 12-13 models?

keith7120

I have owned the 09 SH-AWD and I now own the 2013 SH-AWD. I liked the look of the 09 better with the more pronounced beak and the quad pipes along with the 19inch diamond cut wheels. The 09 did handle better and was a bit rougher but I did not have a problem with that. What I don't miss about the 09 is the torque issue which seems like it couldn't figure out which gear to go into. The exhaust sound is also more pronounced in the 2013 but I'm not sure why. Overall, they are very close in performance, its just the updated grill and the lack of quads makes it look like a base TL until the person behind you can read the SH-AWD on the back.