JeffNY

That was not a "point" I made (with the smiley face and all). It was a "question". $139 a barrel, man, it just keeps getting better and better by the day doesn't it?

I agree. The market IS working. Oil and gas go sky high, and cars like the Tesla, Volt, Karma and Venture appear. All without government intervention. So what's your problem? We all agree markets WORK. Why all the hostility and sarcasm?

And ZERO of our tax money is going to fund electric motor or battery research. All the US companies I sited above are privately funded. So, again, what's your problem?

But why would you want to ride a bus or buy a ICE Civic if you could buy a car that cost $8 bucks to "tank up" (instead of $60 or $70)? I don't understand the logic. Look, you can drive your ICE powered TL until gas is $15 bucks a gallon. It doesn't matter to me. But I and others do want other alternatives, hopefully some from Honda...that are better than the "hybrid" Accord. Now Honda wants to build "diesels".....geeezzzz, but that is a whole other discussion...

And fuel cells? I been hearing thats the future for 10 years now from a local company called Plug Power. Despite money from NY they still don't have something that can go in a car and have only sold a very limited number of commercial units for special applications. But that is what Honda is still trying to get commercialized. How much will California tax payers have to pay for the "California Hydrogen Highway" so Honda can sell a car that breaths air? You tell me:
http://www.hydrogenhighway.ca.gov/facts/finance_fs.pdf

And we agree, I would not like to see Honda make a TL that is a version of "hybrid" Accord either. I'd prefer they do a REV like the Volt. But I have been saying that for days now. Not sure why you aren't getting that.

CL6

Please name the vehicles I could buy today that cost "$8 bucks to 'tank up'" and the cost of these vehicles.

Thank you.

JeffNY

The Tesla is one. Many more are coming, as I have shown and shown and shown......from GM, Toyota, Nissan, Zenn, and others.

Now you ansewer my question.

fsttyms1

Why the hell is this excuse of a thread in the 4th gen TL forum

fsttyms1

You are acting like there is a option for every one RIGHT now. There isnt. Its many years off. I for one dont have the money to go out and buy 2-3 new cars right now just because they get better mileage than what im driving.

Ganplosive

just bring on out the hydrogen fuel cells. Acura clarity for the win

JeffNY

>>You are acting like there is a option for every one RIGHT now. There isnt. Its many years off. I for one dont have the money to go out and buy 2-3 new cars right now just because they get better mileage than what im driving.<<

That wasn't the question. He asked what car he could buy now he could tank up for $8 bucks. I told him.

If you want to pretend no others will be on the maket in short order go ahead. But I would still like to hear WHY someone would prefer to buy $60+ for gas if they had a choice to pay $8 for electric. It's a hypothetical question......what is your ansewer?

JeffNY

And I am NOT "acting like there is a option for every one RIGHT now." HAVE YOU READ WHAT I SAID ABOVE??? I have been very clear this new battery technology and we have to wait a few more months.

But why some people get so hostile to new promising technology that has been demonstrated to work is BEYOND ME!!!! Someone ansewer THAT for me too.

And >>hydrogen fuel cells. Acura clarity for the win<<

Give me a break, that's going nowhere....

JeffNY

And lets not forget a couple things, there is no "'09 TL Hybrid".....there is not even a "'09 TL" !! And Acura does not even sell a "hybrid" version of ANY Acura model. And for whatever reason Honda has not seemed to do too well in the "hybrid" market (unlike Toyota).

Some of us are just trying to change that and get Honda pointed in the right direction.

CL6

Ok so, basically, I could go out and buy a Tesla for $100,000.00 and then save money by paying $8 to tank it up.

I'll stick with my 2003 Acura CL-S and $60 to tank it up and save the remaining $99,000.00 this year.

Thank you!

Edward'TLS

^^^^^ Dead right.

According to the "SUV owners keep on truckin' despite gas prices" article in today's CNN, many big truck owners are still keeping their gas-guzzlers despite the $4 per gallon pump price.

One guy said he decided to keep his cars simply because they're paid for. "Do I pay $5,000 a year in car payments, or do I put $5,000 of gas in the Suburban?" he asked. "Right now it's cheaper for me to just put gas in the Suburban."

JeffNY

That is not the issue CL6, and everybody here but you seem to understand that. In a year or two when you can buy an EV or REV in the $30,000 range (and gas is $5.99 a gallon) we'll see what you say. And you still can't prove the Tesla (a pure electric car) does not work....which was your goal from the start comparing electric cars to "flying cars". You were wrong. But if you can't admit you were wrong, it's Ok.

And the whole business plan at Tesla was to sell a high-performance car first (to people have lots of money), then use that money to fund lower cost versions. Which is what they are doing. But if you had done some reading first you'd have known that.

JeffNY

>>"Do I pay $5,000 a year in car payments, or do I put $5,000 of gas in the Suburban?"<<

Dead Right Edward. It is terrible to be in such a bad position and be left with just those two choices. You're for people having a 3rd choice right? Like being able to buy a vehicle that does not need $5000 bucks worth of gas a year to run? I'll put your vote down as a 'Yes" with me....so we push Acura to get to work on this....

fsttyms1

Man you are so dead set on this there is no other way than yours is there? Your way is the only way

Why would i go out and spend more money on a car when i dont have to with my cars all being payed for. Its the same as the article. Its not your way.

JeffNY

Saw this today:
http://green.yahoo.com/news/ap/20080...pan_honda.html

Here is another link to the same story (sometime those Yahoo News links die fast):
http://www.ajc.com/ajccars/content/a..._hydrogen.html

If offers a little insight in Hondas plans. If a TL hybrid does appear it looks like it won't be before 2011. Also looks like Honda has no plans for a "plug in hybrid" ("yet"). President Takeo Fukui says he thinks they are not feasible yet. I wish he would change his mind and join the other auto makers, I think he is missing an opportunity. B ut....oh well...if Toyota is right (again) it will just mean lost sales.

PS Thanks to fsttyms1 for re-opening this thread....he would like the topics to stick to the "TL Hybrid" as much as possible though...

TSX69

I still think that the Accord IMA would have been a good choice .... if nothing more than a stop gap for a few years. It got like 253hp and 232tq ... mpg 28 city / 35 hwy. As long as they did not slap a $3,000 premium on there, I could see it ... maybe w/ some tweaks for more HP but that is not really necessary since mpg is the theme nowadays.

Black_05_TL_6SP

The Accord hybrid was not as bad as everyone likes to make it out to be. I talked with several people that drove them and they loved them. They could see up to 40-41MPG out of them.

The big problem was the premium you paid at the dealer for it. It is not the best but it would be a could middle ground till they have something to replace it. Everyone talks about Toyota and their hybrids, but would you really drive a LS600H! Come on, a V12 with electric assist. WHY!!!!!!!!! And a price tag of 100K+. It is a great looking car and fast, but the savings on gas are not that great.

If Toyota was willing to put something out like that, then why can't Honda. It the case of the LS it is not about the fuel savings but rather the environment. It has a 70% decrease in emissions.

I vote for an engine assist TL to help reduce emissions and increase MPG some. We all know the 09 will have less fuel efficiency then the 3rd gen due to the increase in engine size and the optional AWD (if it happens) will hurt it even more.

Edward'TLS

The LS600H is not marketed for great fuel economy, it is marketed for POWER. The motor assist is there to generate lots of torque to accelerate the hulking AWD car, not there to reduce greenhouse gas nor to reduce gas consumption.

Even with AWD and other additional heavy luxury amenities, the AWD LS600H can achieve the same acceleration numbers as the lighter RWD LS460.

Black_05_TL_6SP

Yes, but is labeled as a "Hybrid".

CL6

The LS600H is for the Limo Liberal. Toyota put it in there because it generates a ton of press and so the people who choose it can have something to make their pals envious at cocktail parties. Same reason the Prius looks differently and the Accord/Civic Hybrid looks the same as the non-hybrid... Toyota knows how to market and appeal to people's vanity.

I drove an Accord Hybrid and I didn't like the way the engine died when you were stopped or the lag when you started. The Prius didn't seem to feel the same way.

I think the LS600 is an interesting study in technology and human psychology.

JeffNY

Was surfing around tonight (as oil hits more record high prices, $145/barrel) and found this interesting web site:

http://www.hybridcar.com/

Toyota looks to be the winner here...but Civic hybrid sales look good....
http://www.hybridcar.com/index.php?o...=663&Itemid=45

Does anyone think the Acura brand will see a "hybrid" (by any definition) in the next 24 months? I remember how easy the decision was to buy my '99 TL. But now I am reading all I can to decide what my next car will be.

I see a couple vehicles I may want to buy when they become available, I already decided my next car (or three wheel vehicle) will have a plug. But what are you guys thinking? If Acura does not deliver some sort of high MPG or "alternate fuel" vehicles will you stick with the Acura brand?

Tuesday I ordered another motorcycle....a Kawasaki KLX250S. Should get it next week. Gets 70MPG. It's not a car....but it might pay for itself from gas savings pretty quick (and be lots of fun to cruise around on).

DeMAN

I agree with the electric concept, but Honda/Acura needs to figure how to get all there cars for now to operate on regular gasoline.

ndabunka

Congrats on finding jsut ONE of the MANY Hybrid sites. I am on that one with the same ID (We have a Hybrid Highlander).. NOPE, Honda will not be offering a Hybrid TL anytime in the next 5 years. Why should it? My '04 TL ALREADY does better than her '06 HiHy...70MPG is for the Smart cars and such, not a performance lux car like the TL

CL6

They already have... it's called a lower compression ratio, lower horsepower motor and you can buy them today... in a Honda!

JeffNY

So how does that help Acura sell cars again?

csmeance

guys, this is really off topic now, this is about the 09TL hybrid, not honda's marketing plans, tesla or 8 buck to fill up a car. You can continue this discussion in car talk.