Yellowr2000

ok, first off i apologize in advance since this topic has pobably been beat into the ground, unfortunantly when i do a search, it wont read the "TL" part, since it has to be like 3 or more letters long to search. i tried a few other searches but couldnt find what i was looking for. i obviously dont want to ask this in the tl forum since everyone there will tell me definantly get a tl so here goes:

in your guys opinion, is the TL worth the extra 5k over the tsx? just about the only differences that i can tell the tl has over the tsx is the bigger engine<duh> power passenger seat, auto passenger windows, bluetooth, xm radio, and a couple other small things..now in your guys opinion is this worth the 5k more? if you had the money, would you have went ahead and got the TL instead...or would you still have gotten the tsx? why or why not? im dead set on one of these 2 cars, i love the way they both look, but im a bit partial to the tl..but is it worth the money? what makes each car better in your guys opinion..i want to hear some opinions other than brochures and dealers..

once again, sorry if this is beating a dead horse, but i tried..i really tried to find other posts first! thnks for any input you guys have!

xizor

definately test drive both, and be sure that 200hp will satisfy you because some members have gotten a TSX and decided they need more power.

TJs TSX

I would.

If not because of negative equalty on our trade in, we could have gone for the TL. Add all the extras that TL offer, you could easily spend waaaaay beyond 5k to fit all that goodies in the TSX.

To some, though, TSX is a little more fun to drive due to the lighter weight and better balance of the car, TL is more like a grand touring. Be sure to test drive both while you're at it.

I'm paying TL price for my TSX.... :'(

ianS

TL - made in US
TSX - made in Japan
I dunno will you mind this, but I really care. So I never consider TL.

MOMOTL

I test drove both cars and it depends what you want. If you are looking for power go for the TL. I drove the TL first and was amazed how much power that car had. Then I drove the TSX and it was under power compare to the TL. PLease note I drove the 5AT TL b/c they did not have a demo 6MT and even the TL 5AT was alot and I mean alot faster than the TSX 6AT. No comparison in power and speed class. However, the TSX is a nice compact car and has everything you want in a luxory car. But the TL has it and more. So if you don't mind spending more and want more power.....I'd go for the TL. Go test drive both and you would know what I mean. You would probably end up buying the TL. I bought a TL and my little brother bought a TSX. BOth are very nice cars!!!!!! At least you won't go wrong either way!!!! Ps...including tax will put you over 9k compare to the TSX. So that is almost a good 10k dude!!!!

vitocorleone

The absolute best thing you can do is to drive both - especially if you could "afford" either. I was all set on the TSX until the TL came out, and then it flipped. Until I drove them. Sure, the v6 is sweet and the TL looks hot, but I believe my exact words about the TL I posted on this board after test driving them both were "like a leather glove 2 sizes too big". In other words, it didn't feel like me - it felt more like a rental car. I don't know. The TSX, on the other hand, was a definite fit, while not as strong power-wise as I'd wished, but still outperforms my 96 Integra LS - and a lot more quietly!

mobilezen

The TL and TSX are also on my list to test drive when the time comes for car shopping. The one thing that has detracted is that a word ? lol from the TL is that I won't be able to use the bluetooth handsfree link (The Sony Ericsson P900 doesn't have the handsfree profile doh!) and don't care about navi and memory seats, etc. One thing I do care is the power of a 270hp V6 so I think if I did get the TSX, maybe a supercharger in its future? who knows. I can't wait till I make the money so I can pay cash and be done with getting a new car.

Saintor_RENAMED

I am still debating with myself. I drove a few ones of each, manual and automatic.

Automatic forget it, for my taste, it would be the TL no contest. Manual, I have the sense that the TSX is a bit more fun-to-drive mand it feels more nimble and balanced. It is not everybody who needs ultimate power. 0-60 in 7.5s is fine with me. 160$CAD less a month, 10-15% better fuel economy.

Poindexter

For me the TSX just plainly fit me better. Bear in mind that I wasn't looking for anything that was "fast" since I have my motorcycle. Anyways, there's always going to be some one faster than you right??

I guess what it came down to though is that I just couldn't really justify buying such an "expensive" car as the TL when there was a TSX. I guess I have too many hobbies to pay for and me and the wife want to buy a house next year. So. . . Advantage - TSX.

iron_chef

Amen....the fact it's Jap made & a JDM prodcution, to me, makes it much better value for the 28K.

TL - 95% US, specifically for the NA market...no thanks, I 'd rather get 2 GMs

keg1997

I'm not instigating anything at all, but can you explain a bit more? I've seen many folks on other boards and people that I work with make the comment that they want their Japanese car made in Japan. Do you feel that the quality control is less with US workers?

Just wondering...

TIA!

Poindexter

Yes. . . I work in the automotive industry and have seen/experienced both types of production. It's not really that the japanese workers are more competent than their american counterparts. . . It's that the initial design quality and the eye for details of every one involved that sets them apart.

(i.e. imagine a bunch of japanese engineers and their bosses sitting at a table talking about the same component for several hours. . . now just try to imagine american engineers and their bosses doing the same thing. Now who's talking about the design quality and who's talking about getting the work done more efficiently and more inexpensive after just 30 minutes?)

No offense to the American Engineers, but the Japanese are VERY disciplined. Besides, when they do something wrong they get their face smashed in by their boss.

iron_chef

Xactly...cars are getting more and more complicated, thousands of parts...
It's just IN GENERAL, Jap workers are more focused & more dedicated to excellency in work.
They build things with the zeal as we do with say...rockets, submerines, airplanes...
It's a cultural thing that's hard to graspe for the ave. western joe.

>No offense to the American Engineers, but the Japanese are VERY disciplined. Besides, when they do something wrong they get their face smashed in by their boss.

...and in our culture...for better or worse....finger pointing left & right. f**king lawyers really have a role in preserving this.

Poindexter

Exactly!!! Lawyers and those stupid Unions. I guess unions are somewhat good but mostly a pain in the butt. BTW: in Japan I have not seen any type of workers union.

ric

Beat that dead horse, man........ I went in to lease a TL, and ended up leasing a TSX. The difference of $50/month for this company-sponsored lease car was not a critical dealbreaker for me, and since the gas is also picked up by my firm, the fuel economy is not a financial thing (though it is something of an ethical thing). These are two different cars; the TSX is a car to be driven, and cannot be driven casually or without concentration. The TL is Acura's response to the "near luxury" category, and is a great, highly powered road car that will deliever a very comfortable driving experience with an interior, that, as you note, is more plush than the TXS interior. I found, in my test drive, that the TSX has limited low-end torque, so playing freeway entry "chicken" is something of a challenge. However, at speed, the mid-range torque kicks in, and the TSX is very swift in passing. I found the size and "safer" handling of the TL to be a liability as I thought about driving it on congested city streets. So - for me, the tradeoff was greater fun, more nimble handling, a more compact car to thread through the city and some of the back roads I drive - and I have accepted that, about once or twice a week, I lack some the power that I might really like to have, mostly in rush-hour access lane acceleration driving. (Now, if this car had 40- more horses, I'd be in pig heaven........)

Test drive both - at slow speeds/neighborhood driving and at fast speeds - freeway driving - and see how they feel for you. And really evaluate how much the additional luxogoodies will mean to you on a daily basis - if you're not going to use them, no point in paying for them. Conversely, if the Bluetooth technology and some of the other goodies is a dealbreaker, go for the TL.

Although I am reimbursed for gas, I am getting 32 mpg/freeway and 20/21 in the city following the 900-mile breakin period.

In truth, you couln't go wrong with either car. The issue is the personality of the car in relation to your expectations.

JuMpoFF

I test drove both, i own a TSX but honestly my fav car is the TL though. Overall it is just a very impressive car considering the power, styling, and overall feel. But the TSX does kinda have to TL beat on being a fun to drive car. Overall it just comes down to what your looking for in your car.

mobilezen

I was so caught up on the bluetooth thing until a couple things happened. My Sony Ericsson P900 doesn't support handsfree profile therefore cannot use the HFL on the '04 TL. Also, the fact that I was googling over the integrated bluetooth made me totally forget how much a bluetooth car kit costs...a mere $200-$300 bucks depending on how fancy you want to get. That would be the only feature I would use in the TL... Granted, it will be my first test drive since that is the car I want in the first place but as ric said, if you don't use all the luxogoodies, there really isn't any point in getting the car. I certainly wish the TSX came with a V6 and just from reading, I get the impression that it is a very peppy engine (the K24 I mean). We shall see.

DGH

Just FYI, they have unions in Japan, although they are part of the company. My current boss used to be a union leader. Believe it or not their main concern is the reduction / fair compensation for overtime, general quality of life stuff. They are not so into the nickle and dime grievance stuff.

iron_chef

Because they don't have the "bitching it to hell" thing in their cultural DNA

kaikai114

First thing you need to do is test drive the TL, then drive your TSX, get the feel of both cars then decide from there.

Personally, I'd choose the TSX over the TL just because the TSX is a lot more "balanced" in weight than the TL. I have to admit that the interior on the TL is just damn nice, nicer than the TSX of course, but too complicated for my age group. I usually like the interior to be detailed, modern but not too complicated, and I think the TSX strikes that balance for me. The exterior of the TL has too much of that "fender" look if you know what i mean, but I appreciate how both the TL and the TSX looks on the outside. As for engine, more power is always better, but there are always downsides to having more power, the V6 engine is a lot heavier than the TSX I4, which makes the TL less balanced. If the TL were RWD with V6, that will probably be the only reason I will choose the TL over the TSX, but with the same FWD layout, TSX gets you more BANG for the buck. 5k more? Might as well spend that money on rims, supercharger, I/H/E, a nice looking body kit, and without doubt, you'll get more attention on this souped up tsx than the tl and have more fun driving it at the same time, not to mention you'll probably get near 250 hp (close to TL) after all that setup. that's my 2 cent.

Kevin

TSXfan23

Just get a G35 if you want made in Japan quality and the speed of the TL.

kaikai114

G35's interior is not even a match for the TSX, not to mention the TL. My friend who drives a G35 had his eyes all opened when he sat in my tsx, then he started shitting on his BOSE stereo system after hearing the TSX stereo. And as for quality, you'd be surprised how many recalls have already been issued for the G35, brakes, door panel, etc. I like the G35 only for its engine, and that growl when u step on it...

TSXfan23

i thought bose is better than our Japanese brand stereo system on the TSX?

i was going to mention something from Lexus, but there's nothing to compare the TL/TSX with, I mean the IS300 is outdated and the ES330 is for old people.

maybe he could look at the Rx-8?

kaikai114

Lexus has always had the best stereo system. Other than Lexus, Nissan Maxima has some serious punch in that BOSE setup 300 something watts? then again, the interior of the maxima is just plain o cheap

ianS

no1 can beat the Nakamichi from Lexus! Maybe the Mark Levsion from SC430 only!

drchaos

I don't think that actually the Japanese versus US engineering would be THAT different when you get down to the hard core level. There really are some good hard-core gearheads in the US.

But here's what would be different. The Japanese bosses tell their engineers, "We want you to make this part work really great, and it should be efficient, high-perormance, and reliable and easy to manufacture. Let us know when you have the correct solution."

The American bosses tell their engineers, "You losers, tell me why I shouldn't fire you? Ching-Wang-Chong gearworks said that they can design this part for thirty seven cents apiece, and they pay their engineers $250 a month. I'm being nice here, but if you can come up with a design before my vacation in Maui with the executives, maybe I might have some mercy. Oh yeah, Bob, Chuck and Dwight---you're fired. You're 45 years old now and you're a burden on our health plan. No you aren't the only people left who know electrorheological fluid mechanics, remember ChingWangChong? No you won't be getting any severance. the Psychic friends network tells me you'll be getting bad performance reviews any time now. if you're fired for cause, no severance, and no unemployment bennies. No you can't sue. Remember that thing you signed when you started work here? page 47, appendix II, paragraph (B) subcodicil iv. "mandatory arbitration". we getta pick em too. so far employees are 0 for 1372.

Why? Why? The Street demands we lower our employee cost base. That's you. Oh yeah, my bonus goes up too. Two words: Ha-Ha!

The rest of you nitwits---you're also going to be traning 13 new interns from the 'rehab to wheels' diversity program. Yes, that's the brain-damaged druggies one, not the appalachian indian transsexual teenager one. I expect 13 new automotive engineers in three months. I don't care if they're morons, the gubmint is paying for em to be here, not us. Oh yeah, remember to keep the lab alcohol and the coolant locked up.

Toodles, my mistress awaits."

tsx-mdxman

I like the fact I got a more nimble and (slightly) better looking car (IMHO) that's really very similar to the TL. I did convince a co-worker to buy an Acura (he actually bought two!...a RSX S-type for his wife and a new TL for himself) and he commented that, though he loved the TL, it had more initial quality problems than he expected - lots of "little things." By the way, the TL gray is not nearly as attractive as the TSX gray.
One more thing. The TSX is easier on gas than the TL. Makes me feel better, a little greener and thriftier. My MDX (20 mpg overall, currently, not too bad) replacement will also have to be thriftier.

gt0279a

Auto - go TL

Manual - go TSX

I really liked the TL as an automatic, but I wanted a manual. TL 6MT had way too much torque steer for my taste. 270 hp is alot for a front drive car.

Plus I like getting 25+ mpg in the TSX

SilverCL225hp

I own a 2003 G35 sedan. Yes there are recalls, but none of them I need to pay a cent from my pocket, and none of them took more than three hours to fix. Right now my car is in perfect shape. I say Nissan is very very responsible for their mistakes and design flaws. And G35 is being improved constantly.

mobilezen

Oh man, there was a huge discussion on a-tl about the G35 vs TL...anyone can do a search there and find the arguements.

kaikai114

you hear that ACURA????

TSXautoXer

Comparing 6MT version of both TSX and TL,

TSX feels light and nimble. The turn in response is good. The steering feels more natural. Not much power though.

TL feels heavier and not as tossable. The turn in response is kinda like a half beat off. The steering doesn't offer much feel, but with that LSD and thick torque, it's pretty impressive powering out of corners (but do hold onto the steering TIGHTLY).

If you do a lot of driving on the freeway and couldn't care less about shifting yourself, get a 5AT TL. But if you like to FEEL the car cutting through corners, a 6MT TSX is great. For competition driving, forget about it, none is that great, but TL, albeit the weight and the heavy feel, IS actually FASTER even in tight tracks, largely thanks to that LSD and BREMBO brakes.

ostrich

The TSX definitely felt much slower when I test drove both the TL and the TSX. However, after 8000miles now, the TSX feels so much faster than when it was brand new! Some days, I still wished that I had gotten a TL (just for more power), but 2 weeks ago I had to use the fold-down rear seats for some furniture item and I was so glad that I had the TSX.

cdlogan

Good post. A favorite comparison I once heard: Driving the TL is sort of like driving the Enterprise, while driving the TSX is more like piloting the Defiant. </star trek geekiness>

newbiTSX

very nice indeed, even tho i am not in the tsx vs tl thing, i am just tsx all the way!

ianS

But I hate the 2 triangle of the folddown seat! :sqntfawk: I dunno why Honda still keep that 2 triangle on an accord????

rets

TL's MPG isn't too good in City/crowded areas, however, its highway MPG is awesome, 26-33, between 55-75 MPH.

New Acura Owner

I chose the TL over the TSX for the following reasons. My decision to go with the TL was difficult because it was far beyond my original price range but I am glad I purchased it.

1) TL is made in America while the TSX is made in Japan. I work for a Japanese company (over half of the people in my office are Japanese) and I have to say there are a lot of misconseptions about the Japanese. They sleep in the office, but then stay at work until midnight to make up for the low efficency. There is an attention to detail which may be applicable in manufacturing, howver, the general design is Japanese. Believe me, in American subsidiaries of Japanese companies, no decision are made without the approval of Tokyo. That is just the way it is.

2) Contrary to what was said above, the TL is 65% domestic and 15% from Japan. The sticker doesn't say were ther balance comes from. Ironically, the TL 5AT, which is being recalled in many V6 Acura's is made in Japan. So much for Japanese quality. I would rather employ American's in Ohio, than a bunch of Japanese in Tokyo, especially if the design is Japanese.

3) Based on a test drive of each, the TL feels like its worth the money, while the TSX didn't. I was moving up from a 4 cylinder Accord and felt TSX wasn't significantly different than my Accord. Engine was noisey compared to TL and felt very much like my Accord. The TSX had a cheeper interior while the TL really was perfect.

4) The TL exterior is significantly better looking (in my opinion) than the TSX. When I see a TSX on the street, from the rear it reminds me of a Civic. The TSX isn't a bad looking car but doesn't have the head turning ability of the TL. I live in Manhattan, where BMW's, MBs, and Saabs seem to dominate the streets and I've had many people checking out my TL and several have asked me about it.

LiQiCE

This is not entirely true... The 5speed automatic transmission which is being recalled in many Honda vehicles was designed in Japan and was originally produced in Japan. When it was being produced in Japan, the number of failures was fairly low (within a reasonable margin for any other vehicle). Sometime in MY2001 Honda moved the manufacturing of the 5AT to the USA. Honda themselves noticed that the number of failures in the MY01 Acura CL Type S was lower in the early production phases and significantly higher in the later phases. The numbers were directly correlated to the switchover.

The majority of the failures occurred in the 5AT were from the 3rd Gear clutch pack disintegrating because the American produced versions were not meeting Honda's specifications for quality. Don't get me wrong, there are problems with the design of the 5AT which is Japanese designed. Failures are still occurring even after Honda has addressed the quality issues with the 3rd gear clutch pack. You'll find that many people with EARLY MY01 CL Type S's are still running with their original tranny versus some of the later MY01 CL-S's and MY02 CL-S/TL-S's.

You can find out more details on it from Honda's report to the NHTSA here:

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104677

If you want the original document, you can find it at the NHTSA's website. The scanning quality is very poor and is very difficult to read however.

dom

Totally opposite IMO. I thought the quality of materials used in the TSX are above that of the TL. The faux carbon fiber trim in the TL looks totally out of place and cheap IMO.