Should I replace my spark plugs early?
10-20-2009, 08:41 AM
#1
Someone stole "My Garage"
Thread Starter
Should I replace my spark plugs early?
After reading a few threads about spark plugs, I thought to myself: Should I replace mine now even though I'm still 20K km away from the recommended interval?
The main reason I am thinking about doing so is because I had a problem with my previous engine burning oil, so it may have contaminated the plugs (even though they looked fine last time I checked). I did NOT see a line item on the warranty invoice when I had the new short block put in, saying that I received new spark plugs, so I can only assume they re-used my existing ones. (Everything else was on the invoice, down to how many quarts of oil, specific bolts, etc... so I'm positive that if they replaced the plugs, it would have been noted on here).
I have been checking around, and replacement plugs are $18 locally (and about the same online here in Canada). It's not exactly cheap to replace these 'because i feel like doing so'.
Lastly, I just had an emissions test yesterday and passed with flying colours. So maybe my plugs are just perfectly fine and I should wait until next fall when I'm closer to the recommended change interval?
What are your opinions on this, and why?
Thanks.
The main reason I am thinking about doing so is because I had a problem with my previous engine burning oil, so it may have contaminated the plugs (even though they looked fine last time I checked). I did NOT see a line item on the warranty invoice when I had the new short block put in, saying that I received new spark plugs, so I can only assume they re-used my existing ones. (Everything else was on the invoice, down to how many quarts of oil, specific bolts, etc... so I'm positive that if they replaced the plugs, it would have been noted on here).
I have been checking around, and replacement plugs are $18 locally (and about the same online here in Canada). It's not exactly cheap to replace these 'because i feel like doing so'.
Lastly, I just had an emissions test yesterday and passed with flying colours. So maybe my plugs are just perfectly fine and I should wait until next fall when I'm closer to the recommended change interval?
What are your opinions on this, and why?
Thanks.
10-20-2009, 10:45 AM
#2
in the 24th and a half...
Only reasons I can see for replacing the plugs are:
Concern about performance, which seems ruled out by your recent test.
Concern about problems removing, which seems ruled out by your engine change.
I'm likely to change my plugs at about 60,000 just to be safe and use some anti-seize on the new plugs, but I'm just a preventlive maintainer...
Concern about performance, which seems ruled out by your recent test.
Concern about problems removing, which seems ruled out by your engine change.
I'm likely to change my plugs at about 60,000 just to be safe and use some anti-seize on the new plugs, but I'm just a preventlive maintainer...
10-20-2009, 11:20 AM
#4
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I changed my plugs at 30,000 miles for 3 reasons
bad maf sensor ran too rich for awhile 2nd was a problem starting the car in cold winters here in buffalo with a new battery. and at 90,000 miles.
The plugs were pretty much roaster I'm sure they ignited but the first 30,000 was the worst color plugs ive seen. black and roasted even the stem of the spark plug was shriveled up.
bad maf sensor ran too rich for awhile 2nd was a problem starting the car in cold winters here in buffalo with a new battery. and at 90,000 miles.
The plugs were pretty much roaster I'm sure they ignited but the first 30,000 was the worst color plugs ive seen. black and roasted even the stem of the spark plug was shriveled up.
10-20-2009, 11:44 AM
#5
Senior Moderator
I changed my plugs at 30,000 miles for 3 reasons
bad maf sensor ran too rich for awhile 2nd was a problem starting the car in cold winters here in buffalo with a new battery. and at 90,000 miles.
The plugs were pretty much roaster I'm sure they ignited but the first 30,000 was the worst color plugs ive seen. black and roasted even the stem of the spark plug was shriveled up.
bad maf sensor ran too rich for awhile 2nd was a problem starting the car in cold winters here in buffalo with a new battery. and at 90,000 miles.
The plugs were pretty much roaster I'm sure they ignited but the first 30,000 was the worst color plugs ive seen. black and roasted even the stem of the spark plug was shriveled up.
Asking because sometimes I feel like mine might be running rich also, but mpg is ok and no CEL. Just kinda smells like something is going on, but just briefly and not all the time. Don't know if I'm just being paranoid or what.
10-20-2009, 01:10 PM
#6
it's a car-drive it
still on the original spark plugs-recently had my tsx serviced-they checked it over and it passed with flying colors-was informed that a code will show up when they need to be replaced (nice to have the maintenance minder).
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10-20-2009, 02:21 PM
#10
Senior Moderator
10-20-2009, 06:17 PM
#13
Someone stole "My Garage"
Thread Starter
And the plugs have 152K km, or 95K miles.
I've heard mostly "don't bother yet" from other people, including people who would benefit from selling them to me (my trusted parts counter guy). Mainly because of the e-test passed with flying colors, and the still-good performance as far as I can tell. For $70+tax for the 4 of them, I'm probably going to wait until next summer just to stretch it out a bit. I'm still 20K km from the maintenance interval anyhow.
But the ultimate test will be to look at them this week and read 'em for any wear signs.
10-20-2009, 08:55 PM
#14
The whole thing with the plugs and 100K miles is a marketing thing. People like to equate "spark plugs" with "tune up." Remember that phrase? "Tune Up?"
Its for the old people to think that they really don't need to take care of their cars that much. But by no means does a plug with 60K miles on it perform the same as a new one. And by the time you get to 100K miles there is a significant drop in performance. Maybe you can't feel it because you are used to the car, but I sure can. I drive a lot of TSXs and I can definitely say some are more peppy than others and I would bet that spark plugs is a considerable factor.
I had an MDX with 80-89K on it and when we changed the plugs we saw an easy 5-10% in mpg and a butt dyno proven performance gain. And that was my wife's discerning butt dyno. That means something more to me I guess.
Anyway, I think as time goes by you can trust manufacturers less and less. 3000K oil changes and 30K major services are still a great idea.
Its for the old people to think that they really don't need to take care of their cars that much. But by no means does a plug with 60K miles on it perform the same as a new one. And by the time you get to 100K miles there is a significant drop in performance. Maybe you can't feel it because you are used to the car, but I sure can. I drive a lot of TSXs and I can definitely say some are more peppy than others and I would bet that spark plugs is a considerable factor.
I had an MDX with 80-89K on it and when we changed the plugs we saw an easy 5-10% in mpg and a butt dyno proven performance gain. And that was my wife's discerning butt dyno. That means something more to me I guess.
Anyway, I think as time goes by you can trust manufacturers less and less. 3000K oil changes and 30K major services are still a great idea.
10-20-2009, 08:57 PM
#15
Oh, and don't expect to see much from looking at them. These will look perfectly fine. Plugs start looking bad when they get abused. But the modern computer systems in the car don't allow such abuse. Instead of allowing detonation they pull out timing. So the poor performance is not due to the plugs themselves being all that bad. It is the fact that when they start performing less and less the computer compensates and this is where your power goes away.
10-20-2009, 09:12 PM
#16
Someone stole "My Garage"
Thread Starter
Oh, and don't expect to see much from looking at them. These will look perfectly fine. Plugs start looking bad when they get abused. But the modern computer systems in the car don't allow such abuse. Instead of allowing detonation they pull out timing. So the poor performance is not due to the plugs themselves being all that bad. It is the fact that when they start performing less and less the computer compensates and this is where your power goes away.
I think I'll pop some new ones in there this week or next.
Thanks everyone!
10-20-2009, 11:19 PM
#18
curls:
I think you are due for plugs. Owners manual says every 110,000 miles or 6 years, whichever comes first.
I think you live in Canada. In the United States, the 2004 TSX first went on sale on April 2003. Assuming that your car first went on sale at around that time, your car is now older than six years.
I can't believe it has been more than six years since the 2004 TSX first went on sale.
I think you are due for plugs. Owners manual says every 110,000 miles or 6 years, whichever comes first.
I think you live in Canada. In the United States, the 2004 TSX first went on sale on April 2003. Assuming that your car first went on sale at around that time, your car is now older than six years.
I can't believe it has been more than six years since the 2004 TSX first went on sale.
10-20-2009, 11:45 PM
#19
Racer
curls:
I think you are due for plugs. Owners manual says every 110,000 miles or 6 years, whichever comes first.
I think you live in Canada. In the United States, the 2004 TSX first went on sale on April 2003. Assuming that your car first went on sale at around that time, your car is now older than six years.
I can't believe it has been more than six years since the 2004 TSX first went on sale.
I think you are due for plugs. Owners manual says every 110,000 miles or 6 years, whichever comes first.
I think you live in Canada. In the United States, the 2004 TSX first went on sale on April 2003. Assuming that your car first went on sale at around that time, your car is now older than six years.
I can't believe it has been more than six years since the 2004 TSX first went on sale.
10-21-2009, 06:52 AM
#20
Someone stole "My Garage"
Thread Starter
curls:
I think you are due for plugs. Owners manual says every 110,000 miles or 6 years, whichever comes first.
I think you live in Canada. In the United States, the 2004 TSX first went on sale on April 2003. Assuming that your car first went on sale at around that time, your car is now older than six years.
I can't believe it has been more than six years since the 2004 TSX first went on sale.
I think you are due for plugs. Owners manual says every 110,000 miles or 6 years, whichever comes first.
I think you live in Canada. In the United States, the 2004 TSX first went on sale on April 2003. Assuming that your car first went on sale at around that time, your car is now older than six years.
I can't believe it has been more than six years since the 2004 TSX first went on sale.
My TSX is CDN # 00032 so it was basically one of the first off the assembly line for Canada. I do remember that the registration history showed it was first plated/licensed in April 2003.I'll change 'em up this week. Thanks for bringing that to my attention, I appreciate it!
10-21-2009, 09:18 AM
#21
Senior Moderator
curls:
I think you are due for plugs. Owners manual says every 110,000 miles or 6 years, whichever comes first.
I think you live in Canada. In the United States, the 2004 TSX first went on sale on April 2003. Assuming that your car first went on sale at around that time, your car is now older than six years.
I can't believe it has been more than six years since the 2004 TSX first went on sale.
I think you are due for plugs. Owners manual says every 110,000 miles or 6 years, whichever comes first.
I think you live in Canada. In the United States, the 2004 TSX first went on sale on April 2003. Assuming that your car first went on sale at around that time, your car is now older than six years.
I can't believe it has been more than six years since the 2004 TSX first went on sale.
10-21-2009, 10:35 AM
#22
FWIW, I just changed mine yesterday. I have an '04 with 62,050 miles. They were not awful-looking, but it can't hurt to have changed them.
Plus, the NGK platinum/iridium plugs are $10 each at PepBoys and AutoZone. Dealer charges $19 each for them. So it's a a $40, one hour or less performance improvement. I unplugged the negative terminal on the battery cable while I did it. It's prob. not necessary, but I figure, why not reset the ECU while installing new plugs? Besides, I don't feel comfy with changing something that has the word "spark" in the name with battery juice active in the car.
As DuckDodgerssssss thaid--I mean said--use anti-seize! Between changing six plugs on the '03 TL and the four on the TSX, I gotta tell you that I am really freakin' sore! I mean, it hurt to wrench those turds outta there, so USE THE GREASE.
Here's KVan's free tip o' the day: If you have a wrench with the circle at the end (sorry, don't know the term). slide it over the handle of your socket wrench (or the crappy T-shaped spark plug tool they sell at the parts store) for a longer handle, which equates to more leverage. I mean, I managed on the TL just fine, but the TSX's plugs were REALLY TIGHT!
Plus, the NGK platinum/iridium plugs are $10 each at PepBoys and AutoZone. Dealer charges $19 each for them. So it's a a $40, one hour or less performance improvement. I unplugged the negative terminal on the battery cable while I did it. It's prob. not necessary, but I figure, why not reset the ECU while installing new plugs? Besides, I don't feel comfy with changing something that has the word "spark" in the name with battery juice active in the car.
As DuckDodgerssssss thaid--I mean said--use anti-seize! Between changing six plugs on the '03 TL and the four on the TSX, I gotta tell you that I am really freakin' sore! I mean, it hurt to wrench those turds outta there, so USE THE GREASE.
Here's KVan's free tip o' the day: If you have a wrench with the circle at the end (sorry, don't know the term). slide it over the handle of your socket wrench (or the crappy T-shaped spark plug tool they sell at the parts store) for a longer handle, which equates to more leverage. I mean, I managed on the TL just fine, but the TSX's plugs were REALLY TIGHT!
10-21-2009, 11:30 AM
#24
Someone stole "My Garage"
Thread Starter
Thanks kvan. I have a co-worker who goes to the States for a lot of stuff (weekly, as groceries and gas are much cheaper there and we're less than 1hr from the border). He's going to pick up the plugs at Advance auto parts - $9.99 each vs over $18 here in Canada.
I have had my existing plugs out numerous times and always use spark-plug anti-seize on 'em, as its common sense. Because of that, there's no need for the extension or a breaker bar as my 1/2" drive ratchet with a 9" extension and the special spark plug socket makes quick work of getting the plugs out without danger of stripping anything.
I have had my existing plugs out numerous times and always use spark-plug anti-seize on 'em, as its common sense. Because of that, there's no need for the extension or a breaker bar as my 1/2" drive ratchet with a 9" extension and the special spark plug socket makes quick work of getting the plugs out without danger of stripping anything.
10-21-2009, 02:28 PM
#25
Just did mine today (first time the plugs have been out). 05 w/ 107K miles. From what I've read here, it sounds like there's allot of the urban myth/ conventional wisdom stuff going on (I call em "the change the oil at 3000 miles no matter what" crowd). My car ran like new with the old plugs, no drop in mileage or noticeable performance. I've followed the factory maintenance schedule for the most part, and although many seem to think that the 100K+ interval for plugs is too long, I can't come up with a reason why Honda would make it longer than necessary. I understand about the marketing concerns of too much maintenance, but it's such a small job I can't see them setting a longer interval for that reason. I'll post my comments about doing the job in another thread.
10-21-2009, 06:07 PM
#26
I unplugged the negative terminal on the battery cable while I did it. It's prob. not necessary, but I figure, why not reset the ECU while installing new plugs? Besides, I don't feel comfy with changing something that has the word "spark" in the name with battery juice active in the car.
Unplugging the battery cable was completely unnecessary. There is absolutely no risk of spark or shock or anything changing spark plugs. It was really an inconvenience to yourself to do that. While you might not mind, it was truly not needed at all.
The only reason why I say this is because I swear someone in some other thread will tell people to do this when changing plugs and here we have the spread of misinformation. Just trying to keep it straight
Marcus
10-21-2009, 09:17 PM
#27
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I did get a bad mass airflow which casued an cel and bad gas mileage my 02 sensor died a few times it was something else no gas problems but cel alot.
I'm running a magnaflow high flow cat and its throwing cel p0420 i always reset it since i havent see any major problems. I havent done the defouler.
I'm running a magnaflow high flow cat and its throwing cel p0420 i always reset it since i havent see any major problems. I havent done the defouler.
10-22-2009, 01:35 AM
#29
hmm i was actually debating on changing these plugs...
i'm at 86K... I think for some odd reason they could be affecting my CELs P0137 and P0134 coming up randomly (CT headers, RT cat, CT exhaust) i've noticed if i push my car really hard; the next day the CEL will go off; or the other day at the car wash; i had my car on playing music for a while - and when I started the car it was almost dead... after start CEL was gone... but eventually it will randomly come back and go off... I can't figure it out: this was just a shot in the dark idea for me - I've noticed that my o2 sensor is black... could oil + spark plugs be the cause?
i'm at 86K... I think for some odd reason they could be affecting my CELs P0137 and P0134 coming up randomly (CT headers, RT cat, CT exhaust) i've noticed if i push my car really hard; the next day the CEL will go off; or the other day at the car wash; i had my car on playing music for a while - and when I started the car it was almost dead... after start CEL was gone... but eventually it will randomly come back and go off... I can't figure it out: this was just a shot in the dark idea for me - I've noticed that my o2 sensor is black... could oil + spark plugs be the cause?
10-22-2009, 08:33 AM
#30
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i'm at 77K right now on an 04 TSX. do i really need to change these spark plugs already? i am thinking of just waiting until my car hits 110K miles probably in 2 yrs.
10-22-2009, 11:46 AM
#31
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10-23-2009, 10:19 AM
#35
Someone stole "My Garage"
Thread Starter
10-23-2009, 11:19 AM
#36
Hee hee. Phew! Good thing I did that. I saw that "Message me here" thing at the last second. We've already made contact. He's not cranky. Besides, I'm a sweet, little girly-girl. Who could be mad at me?:gheylaugh
11-05-2009, 07:36 AM
#37
Pro
I replaced our plugs in the 99 Accord a few years ago at 60k miles and there was a good amount of rust on them. I would personally replace them at 60 if anything but putting some anti-seize on them. I can only imagine what may happen at 100k miles with the possibility of stripping something.
11-05-2009, 08:36 AM
#38
Someone stole "My Garage"
Thread Starter
Well I did end up chaning my spark plugs this week. The result was very good -- I immediately noticed smoother idle and better acceleration. I don't think it was placebo because my wife didn't know about the new plugs, but noticed the change in smoothness also!
The old plugs had the corona (rust at bottom of insulator) but this is normal and not a concern as per NGK. However, the old plugs also had a larger gap than the new ones as metal does wear away over time with all of the arcing happening. On one plug I noticed a very small amount of residue/build-up on the side of the centre iridium tip. Not sure what it was but it shouldn't have been there!
NGK plugs, which are used as OEM in our cars, do NOT need anti-seize on them for their lifetime, as they have a shell-plating on them that acts as permanent one-time-use anti-seize. My old plugs came out no problem at all a few years back when I first removed them. However, once you remove them one time, you must use anti-seize on them from then on.
The old plugs had the corona (rust at bottom of insulator) but this is normal and not a concern as per NGK. However, the old plugs also had a larger gap than the new ones as metal does wear away over time with all of the arcing happening. On one plug I noticed a very small amount of residue/build-up on the side of the centre iridium tip. Not sure what it was but it shouldn't have been there!
NGK plugs, which are used as OEM in our cars, do NOT need anti-seize on them for their lifetime, as they have a shell-plating on them that acts as permanent one-time-use anti-seize. My old plugs came out no problem at all a few years back when I first removed them. However, once you remove them one time, you must use anti-seize on them from then on.
11-05-2009, 11:54 AM
#39
Burning Brakes
I replaced mine when I had about 55,xxx miles and man did they look like they needed to be changed. I noticed that my car even with the Yellow top battery didn't start off that good and now it starts up with no problem with the new spark plugs and it does feel like it rides a little better for the acceleration. I believe Honda recommendeds replacing these at 120,000 miles but man I am glad I swapped them out if not I can't imagine how they would look at 120,000 miles 
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