dom

Watchers Eye

Wow, 5 NSX's sold.



Hmm, how long have TSX's been on sale?

bowersan

Since April 3rd in the US, April 8th in Canada.

Domn where are the Canadian numbers?
J.

dom

Don't have em or know where to get them. But I can confirm that Honda is the ONLY import car manf in Canada to have a decline in October (3% decline) Toyota, Nissan, Koreans and even BMW all reported increased Oct 04 sales compared to Oct 03.

rb4580

I didn't think their sales that down like that

dom

Look at the chart up top. Honda car sales are down 13.3% and truck sales are up 16.6% for a difference of -2.9% total.

But my previous comment was reffering to Canada only.

Spud

Ottawa Citizen reported this morning that the whole industry is down for the month of October compared to October 2002. Toyota's the only manyfacturer to record an increase in sales, mostly due to the Corolla and Matrix.

http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawac...9-75b6db96f32a

teombe

I guess Acura's marketers sandbagged when they said they'd only sell 15,00 TSX's in a calendar year... They must be getting paid bonuses for the overage

bob shiftright

Hmmmmm. My serial number is OVER 16,000 and I took delivery in October.

I think the 15,000 figure was a sales goal, not a sales limit.

2004_Acura_TSX

How are the TSX's selling in Canada? I know for the past 5 years the Civic was the top selling car there, but how is it now compared with the Corolla Matrix?

There has to be a place to find Canadian sales information, maybe R.L. Polk?

Other than that, it seems that only the MDX and TSX are selling well for Acura and the Honda Civic sales are down.

dom

The Civic was the best selling car in Canada 5 years running. The Carvan was always the best selling vehicle in Canada however. But the 03 Civic has overtaken the Caravan and will be the best selling vehicle in Canada period after this year.

I have no clue where to get Canadian sales info? Whats R.L Polk?

AcuraFan

Let's put it this way...from it's debut until the end of the year (April to December) Acura set a goal of selling atleast 15,000 TSXs. I never understood the people who tried to believe that 15K was the limit. Honda isn't about to limit any sales in an economy like this.

TfD

Where do you find the SN?

KC 2004 TSX

SM is also the VIN. It's in the dash and in the doors under the hood, etc...

TfD

Thanks.

Over 17000 here, built 10/7

Champ

Look how much the RSX has slipped!!

Over 28% drop compared to last October and over a 17% drop for the year compared to last year....Yikes.

Maybe they will bring the type R now in order to stimulate sales

They should if they were smart but it'll probably never happen!
They will just continue getting smoked in a scene they practically created and dominated for so many tears


Stupid, conservative marketing idiots!!

LeeLee

Here is my observation:

Accord: After the initial rush, including those that held-off buying a 2002 so they could buy a newly redesigned 2003, people have realized just how f-ing ungly the Accord is. When was the last time the Accord experienced a double digit drop in sales the 2nd year into a new model?

Civic: 26% drop? If that's not a wake-up call to Honda I don't know what is. And Honda thinks new headlights and a lip spoiler is going to change things around? Get with the program! Why does this car continue to be saddled with an engine that is smaller and less powerful than all of the car's competitors?

Prelude: Turning over in its grave fast enough to engage VTEC. Why? Honda is squandering the youthful brand image that the Prelude was so instrumental in building.

S2000: Fall-off is expected for the pending redesign.

Insight: Kill it. It served its purpose. Toyota has already won. The Insight is the MPG winner in name only. The Prius has room for 5 and competes with the Civic Hybrid, not the Insight.

FCX: Another reason we don't need Insight anymore.

Odyssey: A workhorse that is still going strong. A bright star in a fairly gloomy sky.

Passport: Who bought a 2 year old "new" car that is a part of a Honda history that most enthusiasts would like to forget?

CRV: Sensible SUV for sensibly practical people.

Pilot: Sensibility - in medium size.

Element: Sensibility - more tie-dye than gen-X

RSX: There is *ONE* way to save the Civic, and that's increase the horse power. However, this strategy is tied directly to the RSX, because the base RSX needs to be dropped, and the 200HP "Type-S" engine needs to be applied to all models. We don't need a $5000 factory performance kit that gives us $2000 worth of aftermarket functionality. Better yet, rename it the Honda Integra, sell it for $20,000, and get rid of the Civic Si.

CL: A great car, a good concept, destroyed by Genuine American (tm) styling. Accord to follow same path.

TL: The magic of a new model release. The TL may not be as lustrous as we've hoped in pre-release speculation. But it pegs the bar pretty high for the new RL to surpass.

TSX: What can I say, I wanted one of these cars. Just make more of those Blue ones, please.

RL: So much pressure is built up on this flagship that I am genuinely afraid. Honda has shown us in the past that it can indeed f_ck things up royally so I am very concerned about this vehicle. While anything is an improvement over the old RL, the rest of the luxury market has moved so far forward that Honda is pretty much introducing a car with no usable past experience to rely on. Honda has traditionally released a weak first-version and then caught up with market in a subsequent redesign. Acura cannot afford to play that game with the RL. The need is to be with the market *NOW*, not five years from now.

NSX: See RL.

MDX: Okay, I know this is selling well. But the interior is a similar vintage to the last TL/CL. Drab and dull. Make it more luxurious.

AcuraFan

well, um...you're about right on the RSX issue. I think they should redesign the RSX and bring it to Honda as the new Prelude or possibly Civic Si. Then create a new RSX based off the TSX platform and introduce a "Type S" for both models (240hp or IMA).

I don't see why you're ripping on the MDX so bad. It will get the updated interior in its next generation. You don't make big changes like that mid-gen.

I think the Accord's sales are suffering slightly because 1) the economy and 2) the Camry got a head start on the redesign and now Accord is playing catch up. I don't think sales are down because you think it looks ugly.

But that's my

dom

I think LeeLee is bang on when he talks about Accord and Civic sales taking a dive should be a wake up call for Honda. Those two cars are their bread and butter and without them Honda's going nowhere.

I believe that if the Accord back end looked good its sales would be way up. Its just a bad car to even look at. I would have bought one if the rear end had respectable looks.

Why are RSX sales down 28%?

Mazda Speed Protege
Focus SVT
SRT-4
Sentra SE-R
GTI
Tiburon
Celica
WRX
EVO
Eclispe

As you can see, its a very, very crowded marketplace and the RSX just can't keep up with alot of those cars for the price. Its time that the JDM Type R was the standard RSX-S for the same price. Instead Honda decides to charge $4800 plus installation for a skirt package 17's (which should be standard) Type R suspesion etc. Why Would I pay 29K for a 200HP RSX-S when I can pay 30 or so for a EVO.

justinjsw

I think its time to let it go...the RSX. The TSX should be the new base car for Acura.

JeffPhx

LeeLee, you are dead on acurate with things. I think Acura has had a good "wake up call" and this is shown in the new TSX/TL and I can't wait to see the next RL, NSX and MDX. Plus we have the new RDX coming too. The RSX should be redone as the Honda Integra and kind of replace the Prelude. As for the rest of Honda, they need to need to remain environmently friendly, while relaxing their conversative side. Hondas are some of the greatest cars to own, but compared to the competetion they are a bit dull. Also, please restyle the Accord!! Great family car, but not attractive from any angle.

LeeLee

To borrow shamelessly from popular vocabulary, Honda is in a quagmire with regards to the Accord and the Civic.

The Accord's issue is ugliness, and from what I've seen, this can't be fixed in the aftermarket with some cut-and-paste body kits. So what this calls for are new designs especially in the rear end of the sedan, and to a lesser extent the front end. Such a redesign would be more extensive than any Honda has done to an existing modle in the past. It will be expensive and it will leave the 2003 and 2004 Accord owners feeling like they got a raw deal. And within the short time frame, it is rather risky to perform such drastic redesigns and potentially make things worse. With the Accord now being updated in 5-year segments, we have 04, 05, 06, and 07 remaining until the next redesign. 4 years is a long long time to wait and Honda will suffer greatly for this mistake in the mean time.

The Civic's issue is with its power. I don't know how easy it would be to increase the Civic's displacement to 1.8 and give it 135 to 140HP, but that's what it needs to stay competitive and continue to draw young buyers. But Honda has rarely done an engine change mid-generation, and even when it has done it in the past, it was swapping to an already-available engine (92 Accord EX got the '91 Accord SE engine). From what I see, Honda will not drop the K20 into all Civics and that's the only engine readily available for deployment. Introduced in 2001, the Civic will have to waitout 04 and 05, with the earliest chance for redemption in 06. That again is a very long time.

I know what people say about Accord and Civic buyers, that these buyers just want something functional, economical and etc, so they don't care about what us enthusiasts feel are deficiencies. I have two issues with this rationale. One is that even appliance buyers have brain cells in that they can comparison shop. The Camry satisifies the role of an appliance every bit as competently as the Accord. And while it may not be called Sexy, it certainly is not an ugly car that the Accord is. As for the Civic, Toyota dealers can simply fall back to numbers to win their argument. Second, Honda has traditionally differentiated their products from Toyota's based on an image of youthful sportiness. It's not much, but it's enough to win the hearts and wallets of consumers. The Civic's youthful appeal is a position envied by Ford, GM, Chrysler, and Toyota. But Honda is leting that edge slip away.

My wife's Sentra is due for replacement next year, and I want a new car a year after that. The TSX is the only potential candidate at this point.

AcuraFan

On looks alone, I'd pick the Accord over the Camry. I think Toyota tried too hard to make their car look less conservative and it turned ugly. Honda, on the other hand made a conservative car with an updated look. Now, it's not the prettiest car out there but it's certainly not as ugly as you guys make it out to be. I have a feeling Honda isn't sweeting the fact that a couple enthusiast (most of which wouldn't even buy an Accord) on an Acura forum think the Accord is ugly.

But you're right, they are going to keep this style for the duration of it's life cycle. I do see a mid-gen "freshing" of the style but those are barely noticeable unless you really know what you're looking for.

I'll hand it to you though, I do agree with you for the most part on the Civic. It used to be the be all to end all of compact cars. Now it's boring to look at and boring to drive. Heck, the Elantra (which is a nice car, don't get me wrong) is beating out the Civic in most comparisons! I find myself recommending the Elantra to friends just as much as the Civic. This just shouldn't happen. Honda has let the compact market pass them by and now they have to play catch up.

phile

What is everyone talking about? The new Accord is selling better than the previous generation. Look at the total yearly sales number on autosite.com - the Accord is selling more than it did last year, which included the 2002 Accord (because the 2003 Accord was introduced in September).

I admit that the tailend is ugly and I do wish they'd place the Honda logo in the center of the front grille instead of where it's currently at, but overall the new Accord's design is a dramatic improvement over the old Accord.

Champ

Justin, do you really think so? Isnt the RSX a great way to attract/bring young people into the Acura fold? Once they are owners they will typically upgrade to other, higher end Acuras.

I am a perfect example, I truly love my 200 h.p., nimble, stylish RSX-S, but i do find myself drawn to the new TSX big time. I am currently happy but sometimes wished i would have waited for the TSX had i even known it was coming here. I could easily trade up now but that would mean 20 months of RSX payments down the toilet as i see it or else i would be in a TSX today!:'(

Oh well, the RSX-S sure aint a bad car to have while waiting and deciding what to do.....I know i sure would miss my tiny steering wheel compared to the huge 18 wheeler type steering wheel in the TSX...LOL

Who knows, if i wait it out long enough, maybe honda will come out with a new CRX to help their lagging sales!!??....yeah, right..LOL

MoMocedes

Whoa! I am stunned by all the negative comments towards the new 4 door accords. Why isn't anyone talking about the new 2 door accords. Those are beautiful including the 3.0, V6, 240hp engine, I mean come on that thing is doing 0-60 times in 6.3 secs with I cant tell you if thats with the auto or 6speed. But all these negative comments about the 4 door is werid because my sister just got one and i was talking to the salesman about them because I thought the were the most akward looking things I have seen in years, but I asked him so if the sales went down from last years because of the ugly redesign he told that the sales have "sky rocketed", and this talk was back in May. Also I remember that honda said that the design of the accord was to the inspiration of a cheetah lol ok so I guess that didn't workout but honda really needs to do something with that Si i mean come on that this is a GEO Metro based design. I like that shifter but the exterior isn't attractive.

-Mouhammad

Iceman

I agree the Accord 4 dr. is ugly. I would have left the Honda family for an A4 or a Mazda6 if it hadn't been for the TSX.

tsx-mdxman

Yes! I think you are dead on, LeeLee. Accord sales were DOWN in October 2003 compared to October 2002. That is definitely not supposed to be happening during the first year following a new Accord's introduction. I hope Honda is appropriately mortified about all this. I attribute it directly to the new Accords truly ugly looks, from the C pillar on back, it sucks! The Camry, while conservative for sure, looks like a Lexus to me, especially when coming right at you. I'm sure that's not by accident. I'll bet Camry sales aren't down.
I hope Honda releases the moron who designed the Accord and the manager who approved production to go work for Buick or Daewoo, where their work will be appreciated a little more. The coupe, on the other hand, does grow on you.

JeffPhx

People have a commenting on the Accord styling since it came out last year, so this shouldn't be stunning. In fact, the Accord styling has helped sell a lot of TSXs, not that the TSX needs any help.

Personally I don't like the styling of either the coupe or sedan, but everything else about the Accords are really good. I just can't get past the looks and don't want to have to walk out and see it daily. To some, the looks are less an issue or they have grown on people. I'm still waiting for that moment.

Thankfully, Acura hit the bullseye with the TSX's styling, features and handling and that is my next purchase.

JeffPhx

While this is true, Acura is trying to move further upscale and separate itself from Honda and the RSX doesn't fit into the new Acura model.

This is why Acura is limiting the "base" model and focusing on the RSX-S. In the near future, I bet Acura will drop the base model and only sell a 200hp version without the Type S designation. Longer term, the RSX will be phased out and hopefully redesigned and moved to Honda.

gilboman

from what i read in the National Post today, they didnt give specific sales numbers but Honda kept its 8.3% marketshare in Canada while toyota went from 8.6% to 10%....