Engine Break-in
08-08-2003, 02:22 PM
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Engine Break-in
Not sure if this is the right forum to put this in, but it doesn't seem off-topic to me. Anyway, people have been asking about break-in tips/techniques. I think this is an important issue since everyone's car is brand new. So I'll post this article about the hows and whys of breaking in an engine. I've followed it to the letter. Don't be too concerned about the oil change stuff as this is written in general. But I recommend doing it before Acura's specified 10k miles. Enjoy.
----------------------------
The Theory
The primary goals of engine break-in are: 1) achieving a good seal between the piston rings and cylinder walls, and 2) allowing the engine to operate correctly throughout its RPM range. The major enemy during the break-in period is localized heat buildup, mainly in bearing surfaces (most notably the crankshaft bearings).
Initial state: When the engine is machined at the factory, many wearing surfaces (places where parts rub against each other – cylinder walls, bearings, etc) are purposely machined more roughly than they could be. The reason for this is that it allows the engine to complete the machining/polishing as it operates, thus allowing for the individual variations inherent in any manufacturing process. This wearing process, when complete, produces parts which will fit together with very tight tolerances. However, the process also involves a great deal of friction, which in turn means a great deal of heat. As metal parts heat, they expand slightly. If the expansion goes beyond a certain point, the parts will tend to bind with and/or score each other. This must be avoided.
[To put this in plain english, the parts which rub against each other are left a bit rough, and as the engine runs the parts will scrape against each other until they wear down a bit and have a proper fit. While they're still in the process of scraping, they can get very hot; if they get too hot, they will damage each other in a permanent way.]
Since this sort of heat buildup is very localized, it will not show up on the engine temperature gauge. Therefore, it is important to operate the engine in such a way that the heat buildup will not reach a dangerous level. More on this later.
Stress and Variation: Although the engine parts are metal and, as a rule, quite rigid, they are still subject to slight deformation when stress is applied. The largest stress in a piston engine is that produced by reciprocating parts. The forces involved increase with the square of the RPM. Any deformation will necessarily involve a change in some tolerances inside the engine. Thus, in order for the engine to operate properly over a range of RPMs, it is important that it be exercised over this range during the break-in process so that the wearing parts will experience the range of tolerances they will be subjected to during normal (post-break-in) operation. Further, for the wearing surfaces of reciprocating parts (most notably the piston ring/ cylinder wall interface) operation at a single RPM for an extended period of time will cause the machining process to progress significantly further within the confines of the part's range of travel without progressing at the point just outside that range, thus building up a small ridge of metal just above the point of maximum excursion.
[In order for your engine to run well from 1000 to redline, you need to operate it at all those rpms while it is breaking in. If you don't, the parts won't be used to working at the rpms you neglected, and they won't work as well at those speeds]
Piston Ring Sealing: The seal between the piston ring and the cylinder wall is crucial to getting good economy and performance from the engine. A bad seal will allow more blow-by, reducing the amount of power the engine can produce with each power stroke and thus reducing both its horsepower and fuel economy, as well as allowing combustion gasses to get into the crankcase and contaminate the oil AND allowing oil to get into the combustion chamber and be burned, producing the characteristic blue-smoke-from-the-tailpipe syndrome (note that oil can also get into the combustion chamber via the valve stem guides, but that's not something we can do much about during break-in). The key to getting a good piston ring seal is high combustion chamber pressures. High combustion chamber pressure is produced under hard acceleration; also, the lower the RPM the longer that pressure is maintained during each power stroke. SO - to get a good piston ring seal, hard acceleration at low RPMs will give the best results. Since hard acceleration also produces more heat and more stress (leading to friction and still MORE heat), it should only be used in brief bursts, followed by a couple of minutes of "normal" low-stress operation to allow the heated parts to cool down.
Localized Heat Buildup: As previously mentioned, wearing parts will produce inordinate amounts of heat as they polish each other. This produces local points of intense heat inside the engine, with temperatures far higher than
the engine as a whole (which shows up on the temperature gauge) or even of the surrounding parts. The most susceptable points in an engine for this kind of heat buildup are the crankshaft bearings, which must withstand enormous stress and pressure. If the bearings are allowed to get too hot, they will expand to the point of scoring each other or (*gulp*) binding, producing a spun bearing. During the initial stages of engine break-in, there is no satisfactory way of keeping these bearings cool during even mild engine operation except to turn the engine off after every 10-15 minutes of operation and allow the bearings to cool down.
The theory I have outlined about should now be sufficient to explain the "practice" section of the break-in instructions. For the first 100 miles, keep the rpms low and the trips short to minimize the stresses and heat buildup in the bearings, and use short full-throttle bursts to seal the piston rings. From 100-500 miles, gradually increase the RPMs to allow the wearing surfaces to correctly mate, and continue using full-throttle bursts to ensure ring sealing. Use cooling periods (the 1-minute rule) to minimize the heat buildup produced by the high RPM operation and the full throttle bursts. At 500 miles, change the oil to flush out all the metal particles produced by the wearing process.
The Practice
For the first 100 miles, only take short trips of <15 minutes. Do not rev above about 3500 rpm. Use full throttle in short (2-3 second) bursts at low rpms (say 2500) - 5th gear on the freeway is ideal for this. Do not do more than one full-throttle burst in the same 2-minute period. Avoid driving for more than 2-3 minutes at the same rpm - if you are on the freeway, vary your speed and alternate between 5th and 4th gears.
From 100-500 miles, increase the peak RPM you reach by 200 rpm each time you drive the car (but don't go higher than redline). Do not rev to your new peak under heavy throttle; instead, let the engine drift up to the rpm under light load. For instance, pulling away from a stoplight, leave the engine in first and accelerate lightly until you reach the desired RPM, then shift. Continue the full-throttle-burst procedure. Do not rev the engine high under full throttle, and do not do either the peak-revving or the full-throttle procedure more often than once a minute. Avoid driving for more than 5 minutes at any one rpm - again, alternating between two adjacent gears and varying your speed will work.
You will notice that each time you reach a new peak rpm, the engine will be quite loud at that rpm, but after a few runs up it will quiet down. This is a sign that the break-in is proceeding well. You will want to have revved the engine to 6500(5500) rpm a few times by the time you reach 500 miles. At that point I recommend you change the oil, as most of the metal wear and contaminants from break-in are released in the first 500 miles.
From 500-3000 miles (the extended break-in) you can operate your engine fairly normally. Most of the work is done. You should still run the engine at higher RPMs on a regular basis (assuming you don't in the normal course of driving ;-) ) and you should avoid prolonged high-speed/high-stress operation, like racing or cruising at 110 mph. I personally change the oil after 1500 miles since it will be dirtier at that point that it would be after 3000 miles of post-break-in operation, but it isn't critical. Be sure to change it at 3000 miles, however. Although there is some difference of opinion on what KIND of oil to use during break-in, the general consensus is to use normal (non-synthetic) oil of the recommended weight (5- or 10-30).
From 3000 miles onward, your engine is considered broken in. It will probably continue to "loosen up" a bit over the next 3000-6000 miles, so look for a small increase in gas mileage. Other than that, your engine is now ready for a long and productive life. Enjoy!
----------------------------
The Theory
The primary goals of engine break-in are: 1) achieving a good seal between the piston rings and cylinder walls, and 2) allowing the engine to operate correctly throughout its RPM range. The major enemy during the break-in period is localized heat buildup, mainly in bearing surfaces (most notably the crankshaft bearings).
Initial state: When the engine is machined at the factory, many wearing surfaces (places where parts rub against each other – cylinder walls, bearings, etc) are purposely machined more roughly than they could be. The reason for this is that it allows the engine to complete the machining/polishing as it operates, thus allowing for the individual variations inherent in any manufacturing process. This wearing process, when complete, produces parts which will fit together with very tight tolerances. However, the process also involves a great deal of friction, which in turn means a great deal of heat. As metal parts heat, they expand slightly. If the expansion goes beyond a certain point, the parts will tend to bind with and/or score each other. This must be avoided.
[To put this in plain english, the parts which rub against each other are left a bit rough, and as the engine runs the parts will scrape against each other until they wear down a bit and have a proper fit. While they're still in the process of scraping, they can get very hot; if they get too hot, they will damage each other in a permanent way.]
Since this sort of heat buildup is very localized, it will not show up on the engine temperature gauge. Therefore, it is important to operate the engine in such a way that the heat buildup will not reach a dangerous level. More on this later.
Stress and Variation: Although the engine parts are metal and, as a rule, quite rigid, they are still subject to slight deformation when stress is applied. The largest stress in a piston engine is that produced by reciprocating parts. The forces involved increase with the square of the RPM. Any deformation will necessarily involve a change in some tolerances inside the engine. Thus, in order for the engine to operate properly over a range of RPMs, it is important that it be exercised over this range during the break-in process so that the wearing parts will experience the range of tolerances they will be subjected to during normal (post-break-in) operation. Further, for the wearing surfaces of reciprocating parts (most notably the piston ring/ cylinder wall interface) operation at a single RPM for an extended period of time will cause the machining process to progress significantly further within the confines of the part's range of travel without progressing at the point just outside that range, thus building up a small ridge of metal just above the point of maximum excursion.
[In order for your engine to run well from 1000 to redline, you need to operate it at all those rpms while it is breaking in. If you don't, the parts won't be used to working at the rpms you neglected, and they won't work as well at those speeds]
Piston Ring Sealing: The seal between the piston ring and the cylinder wall is crucial to getting good economy and performance from the engine. A bad seal will allow more blow-by, reducing the amount of power the engine can produce with each power stroke and thus reducing both its horsepower and fuel economy, as well as allowing combustion gasses to get into the crankcase and contaminate the oil AND allowing oil to get into the combustion chamber and be burned, producing the characteristic blue-smoke-from-the-tailpipe syndrome (note that oil can also get into the combustion chamber via the valve stem guides, but that's not something we can do much about during break-in). The key to getting a good piston ring seal is high combustion chamber pressures. High combustion chamber pressure is produced under hard acceleration; also, the lower the RPM the longer that pressure is maintained during each power stroke. SO - to get a good piston ring seal, hard acceleration at low RPMs will give the best results. Since hard acceleration also produces more heat and more stress (leading to friction and still MORE heat), it should only be used in brief bursts, followed by a couple of minutes of "normal" low-stress operation to allow the heated parts to cool down.
Localized Heat Buildup: As previously mentioned, wearing parts will produce inordinate amounts of heat as they polish each other. This produces local points of intense heat inside the engine, with temperatures far higher than
the engine as a whole (which shows up on the temperature gauge) or even of the surrounding parts. The most susceptable points in an engine for this kind of heat buildup are the crankshaft bearings, which must withstand enormous stress and pressure. If the bearings are allowed to get too hot, they will expand to the point of scoring each other or (*gulp*) binding, producing a spun bearing. During the initial stages of engine break-in, there is no satisfactory way of keeping these bearings cool during even mild engine operation except to turn the engine off after every 10-15 minutes of operation and allow the bearings to cool down.
The theory I have outlined about should now be sufficient to explain the "practice" section of the break-in instructions. For the first 100 miles, keep the rpms low and the trips short to minimize the stresses and heat buildup in the bearings, and use short full-throttle bursts to seal the piston rings. From 100-500 miles, gradually increase the RPMs to allow the wearing surfaces to correctly mate, and continue using full-throttle bursts to ensure ring sealing. Use cooling periods (the 1-minute rule) to minimize the heat buildup produced by the high RPM operation and the full throttle bursts. At 500 miles, change the oil to flush out all the metal particles produced by the wearing process.
The Practice
For the first 100 miles, only take short trips of <15 minutes. Do not rev above about 3500 rpm. Use full throttle in short (2-3 second) bursts at low rpms (say 2500) - 5th gear on the freeway is ideal for this. Do not do more than one full-throttle burst in the same 2-minute period. Avoid driving for more than 2-3 minutes at the same rpm - if you are on the freeway, vary your speed and alternate between 5th and 4th gears.
From 100-500 miles, increase the peak RPM you reach by 200 rpm each time you drive the car (but don't go higher than redline). Do not rev to your new peak under heavy throttle; instead, let the engine drift up to the rpm under light load. For instance, pulling away from a stoplight, leave the engine in first and accelerate lightly until you reach the desired RPM, then shift. Continue the full-throttle-burst procedure. Do not rev the engine high under full throttle, and do not do either the peak-revving or the full-throttle procedure more often than once a minute. Avoid driving for more than 5 minutes at any one rpm - again, alternating between two adjacent gears and varying your speed will work.
You will notice that each time you reach a new peak rpm, the engine will be quite loud at that rpm, but after a few runs up it will quiet down. This is a sign that the break-in is proceeding well. You will want to have revved the engine to 6500(5500) rpm a few times by the time you reach 500 miles. At that point I recommend you change the oil, as most of the metal wear and contaminants from break-in are released in the first 500 miles.
From 500-3000 miles (the extended break-in) you can operate your engine fairly normally. Most of the work is done. You should still run the engine at higher RPMs on a regular basis (assuming you don't in the normal course of driving ;-) ) and you should avoid prolonged high-speed/high-stress operation, like racing or cruising at 110 mph. I personally change the oil after 1500 miles since it will be dirtier at that point that it would be after 3000 miles of post-break-in operation, but it isn't critical. Be sure to change it at 3000 miles, however. Although there is some difference of opinion on what KIND of oil to use during break-in, the general consensus is to use normal (non-synthetic) oil of the recommended weight (5- or 10-30).
From 3000 miles onward, your engine is considered broken in. It will probably continue to "loosen up" a bit over the next 3000-6000 miles, so look for a small increase in gas mileage. Other than that, your engine is now ready for a long and productive life. Enjoy!
you are very wise grasshopper!
08-08-2003, 02:57 PM
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Good article and I agree with most of the recommended practice during the break in period. For those too lazy to read, here's my 2 sentence summary as how one should drive during this tender period is highly subjective to his/her regular driving habits.
- Drive normally with varying rpm and speed on all gears.
- Do not abuse the new motor.
- Drive normally with varying rpm and speed on all gears.
- Do not abuse the new motor.
08-08-2003, 03:36 PM
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Re: Engine Break-in
Originally posted by ClutchPerformer
[In order for your engine to run well from 1000 to redline, you need to operate it at all those rpms while it is breaking in. If you don't, the parts won't be used to working at the rpms you neglected, and they won't work as well at those speeds]
[/B]
[In order for your engine to run well from 1000 to redline, you need to operate it at all those rpms while it is breaking in. If you don't, the parts won't be used to working at the rpms you neglected, and they won't work as well at those speeds]
[/B]
08-08-2003, 03:57 PM
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Re: Re: Engine Break-in
Originally posted by DjElucid
Does this mean that I should rev the engine up high every once in a while. I'm at 75 miles I think.
Does this mean that I should rev the engine up high every once in a while. I'm at 75 miles I think.
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08-08-2003, 05:54 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
Originally posted by elbodude
You say, shift at a certain RPM...what about the5AT? Use the SS during the break in?
You say, shift at a certain RPM...what about the5AT? Use the SS during the break in?
08-11-2003, 12:02 PM
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Here's a question for you! What if you're buying your new car 200 miles away and you have to drive it home (in other words, you can't make short trips the first 100 miles) !?!?!
08-11-2003, 06:36 PM
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Who knows what to believe anymore? I subscribe to ClutchPerformer's approach, but then I recently found the following, which basically says that you have only a very short period of time to do it right. I'm skeptical, but who knows...
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
08-11-2003, 06:41 PM
#12
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Originally posted by rb1
Who knows what to believe anymore? I subscribe to ClutchPerformer's approach, but then I recently found the following, which basically says that you have only a very short period of time to do it right. I'm skeptical, but who knows...
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Who knows what to believe anymore? I subscribe to ClutchPerformer's approach, but then I recently found the following, which basically says that you have only a very short period of time to do it right. I'm skeptical, but who knows...
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
08-11-2003, 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by BlackTSXer
yes i read that too..it makes sense.. but would i do it?
yes i read that too..it makes sense.. but would i do it?
No engine mfg would ever recommend this method.
Personally, I won't do it for the sake of my motor's longevity.
Break In broken
08-11-2003, 11:23 PM
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Re: Break In broken
Originally posted by MSB128
Crap...I just drove my car home from the dealer in Chicago...220 miles.
Crap...I just drove my car home from the dealer in Chicago...220 miles.
08-12-2003, 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by rb1
Who knows what to believe anymore? I subscribe to ClutchPerformer's approach, but then I recently found the following, which basically says that you have only a very short period of time to do it right. I'm skeptical, but who knows...
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Who knows what to believe anymore? I subscribe to ClutchPerformer's approach, but then I recently found the following, which basically says that you have only a very short period of time to do it right. I'm skeptical, but who knows...
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Basically, MotoMan's "technique" (if you can call drive-it-like-you-hate-it a technique) focuses 100% on ring sealing, which admittedly is the most important thing. It's meant to cover what the "full-throttle burst" procedure does, but accomplishes it in a more heavy handed way.
What it ignores is the heat dissipation issue. Your brand new engine (20 miles or less on the odo) will build up heat much quicker especially when driven hard than it will later in life because of the "machining" that you're doing to it. You run the risk of high localized heating and big temperature gradients (changes from place to place) which could distort the bearing tolerances from what they should be at a given RPM/load condition. This is the reason the article I posted recommends short trips (to give things time to cool down before the process is continued). Also, MotoMan's main area of expertise is motorcycle engines. They can dissipate heat better than a car engine because they have a greater surface area to volume ratio.
That being said, most cars aren't delivered with less than 20 miles on the odo (mine had 21).
08-12-2003, 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by Y2K4 TSX
Here's a question for you! What if you're buying your new car 200 miles away and you have to drive it home (in other words, you can't make short trips the first 100 miles) !?!?!
Here's a question for you! What if you're buying your new car 200 miles away and you have to drive it home (in other words, you can't make short trips the first 100 miles) !?!?!
). The effects of break-in don't show themselves until later in the engine's life. Basically a bad or good break in will mean the difference between a 100k mi or a 300k mi car.That being said, I'd try to make a few stops on the way home (maybe arrange to stop at a restaurant, even). Don't forget to vary your RPM while on the highway (using speed and/or gears). Next time you drive, continue as if you just passed 100 miles. Be patient and, most of all, don't worry!
08-12-2003, 10:13 AM
#18
wow!! thanks for these advise!!!
i am thinking if i had done anything wrong in the past 3000km.. oh, what about fuel? strictly premium fuel during break in i guss!! any other suggestion when if safer to put in 89 octane? thanks!!
i am thinking if i had done anything wrong in the past 3000km.. oh, what about fuel? strictly premium fuel during break in i guss!! any other suggestion when if safer to put in 89 octane? thanks!!
08-12-2003, 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by gogozy
wow!! thanks for these advise!!!
i am thinking if i had done anything wrong in the past 3000km.. oh, what about fuel? strictly premium fuel during break in i guss!! any other suggestion when if safer to put in 89 octane? thanks!!
wow!! thanks for these advise!!!
i am thinking if i had done anything wrong in the past 3000km.. oh, what about fuel? strictly premium fuel during break in i guss!! any other suggestion when if safer to put in 89 octane? thanks!!
08-12-2003, 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by gogozy
..... any other suggestion when if safer to put in 89 octane? thanks!!
..... any other suggestion when if safer to put in 89 octane? thanks!!
08-12-2003, 01:23 PM
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Re: Engine Break-in
Originally posted by ClutchPerformer
Not sure if this is the right forum to put this in, but it doesn't seem off-topic to me. Anyway, people have been asking about break-in tips/techniques. I think this is an important issue since everyone's car is brand new. So I'll post this article about the hows and whys of breaking in an engine. I've followed it to the letter. Don't be too concerned about the oil change stuff as this is written in general. But I recommend doing it before Acura's specified 10k miles. Enjoy.
Not sure if this is the right forum to put this in, but it doesn't seem off-topic to me. Anyway, people have been asking about break-in tips/techniques. I think this is an important issue since everyone's car is brand new. So I'll post this article about the hows and whys of breaking in an engine. I've followed it to the letter. Don't be too concerned about the oil change stuff as this is written in general. But I recommend doing it before Acura's specified 10k miles. Enjoy.
You never mentioned where this article came from?
02-10-2004, 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by AdamC
Gas is relatively inexpensive. Go with the highest octane gas you can find locally.
Gas is relatively inexpensive. Go with the highest octane gas you can find locally.
gas is relatively what?! comon down here in california, and you'll see the true meaning of expensive gasoline, nearly $2.50/gallon for premium 91 gas..... or maybe i'm just too broke to afford that kinda gas money
kevin
02-11-2004, 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by kaikai114
gas is relatively what?! comon down here in california, and you'll see the true meaning of expensive gasoline, nearly $2.50/gallon for premium 91 gas.....
gas is relatively what?! comon down here in california, and you'll see the true meaning of expensive gasoline, nearly $2.50/gallon for premium 91 gas.....
Also consider that in Europe, they pay the equivalent of about $4-5 per gallon. We have it easy in the US.
03-01-2004, 10:37 PM
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The part of this I always new was the short power bursts
to seat the rings, and I didn't see mentioned, to
motor break it after the short power bursts.
To drive it easy but use the RPM range is logical, i did that
accidentally anyway because I kept pulling down on my AT
shifter to go to 2nd, when the car was new, many late
shifts occured and I used of all the RPM range.
I changed my oil and 500 and 2500 miles.
to seat the rings, and I didn't see mentioned, to
motor break it after the short power bursts.
To drive it easy but use the RPM range is logical, i did that
accidentally anyway because I kept pulling down on my AT
shifter to go to 2nd, when the car was new, many late
shifts occured and I used of all the RPM range.
I changed my oil and 500 and 2500 miles.
03-05-2004, 12:36 PM
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I was thinking to go Synthetic at 1500 miles, but now I am going to do a change with dino oil instead, and wait for 5000 for Synthetic.
Any comments.
I did break in my eclipse hard, and went to Synthetic at 15000, now i have 240000 on it and I still use it to this day. I am going to give it to my kid....its still runs strong...so is it the hard break in...or using the Synthetic...or maybe both....
What is the magic combo?
Did I find it?
Any comments.
I did break in my eclipse hard, and went to Synthetic at 15000, now i have 240000 on it and I still use it to this day. I am going to give it to my kid....its still runs strong...so is it the hard break in...or using the Synthetic...or maybe both....
What is the magic combo?
Did I find it?
04-17-2004, 09:44 AM
#31
Race Director
Isn't it nice that some people take the time to find an existing thread instead creating a new one?
Full throtle burst - just like it sounds floor it for a few seconds - it's suposed to seal the rings. Other than abuse, there's really no wrong way to break in a modern engine.
Full throtle burst - just like it sounds floor it for a few seconds - it's suposed to seal the rings. Other than abuse, there's really no wrong way to break in a modern engine.
04-17-2004, 03:47 PM
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Biker's right. Put the gas pedal to the floor (preferably at low RPMs) for 4-5 seconds at a time. At full throttle, you get the highest cylinder pressures (least throttling losses), and at low RPM, these pressures are maintained for the longest possible duration (because the engine is turning slower).
04-18-2004, 10:58 PM
#33
Team Owner
Originally posted by biker
Isn't it nice that some people take the time to find an existing thread instead creating a new one?
Isn't it nice that some people take the time to find an existing thread instead creating a new one?
04-19-2004, 03:48 PM
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Drama!!!
You can tell there are a bunch of engineers using this forum! A lot of over analyizing every subject under the sun! (My brother was an aerospace engineer so I have seen this before) As far as engine break-in is concerned all that is required is a good load of common sense. I broke in this car as I have every vehicle I have ever owned. Did not drive over 60 for the first 500 miles. At 1500 miles currently all systems are go! Has not used a drop of oil and I get 33 - 34 mpg on road trips. I now push our TSX at a good clip and it is by far the best ride I have ever owned. Have fun with your ride and get off the computer!!!
09-24-2004, 03:10 PM
#38
Photography Nerd
Originally Posted by blackjackman
I got a new AT tranny - does the break-in apply to it as well ?
I thought you were just getting a new tranny cover?
09-24-2004, 03:17 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
I would go easy on it for 500 miles or so. It doesn't need as much breaking in as a new engine does.
I thought you were just getting a new tranny cover?
I thought you were just getting a new tranny cover?
My tranny issue is the TSB 04-012 which mandates tranny replacement.
Car at idle seems a bit smoother & quieter now...wonder if it has to do with the new tranny.
09-24-2004, 03:23 PM
#40
Photography Nerd
I must have misread that one the first time. It's good of them to replace the whole transmission but I guess it's probably easier than having the shop rebuild them.