Simba91102

I've had the opportunity to spend some time in, and add some miles to, my recently acquired 2010 TSX. Since I'm stuck in place thanks to this monster winter storm (I'm in CT), I thought a thread to compare and share might be in order. My opinions are still being formed in some areas, and I hope to add observations as time goes on; I hope other converts (from a 1st gen car to a 2nd gen model) will too. Remember, these are my opinions and observations, and it only makes sense that there are others out there too.

I'll cut to the chase and set the stage for the basis of my first batch of comments. First, this car has strayed considerably from the 1st gen TSX. And though this comment may draw some fire (and it's not original, thanks to Car and Driver), Honda truly has provided us with the best Buick ever built in Japan. It rides and handles well, but it has little of the "come on, drive me harder..." feeling that seems ingrained in, and so defines, the 1st gen TSX. And since actions speak louder than words, I've already decided that I'm not really interested in modding this car. The suspension and tire work that I did with my 05 transformed that car just enough to set it apart from my wife's 07. This newer car feels big sitting behind the wheel, and though I don't doubt that it can be improved upon, the view looking out of the windshield won't change. This truly is a daily driver, in most all senses of that description. Fortunately, I can find driving entertainment elsewhere, but I caution those of you that may be considering doing what I did. That said, anyone that's looking to move from an 04-08 to an 09 forward, I'd suggest spending as much time with the newer car as possible before you buy one. I'd especially like to hear from those that perhaps have both.

The seats are wonderful; easily as comfortable, or more so, that the ones provided in the earlier cars. I think the leather is of a higher quality too. I like the new dash, and the center display is a nice touch (my car is non-navi). I do wish that Honda had included the outside temperature display in it though (it's included in the MID display between the speedo and tach, like in the earlier cars). I'm actually not sure why, just because I think it belongs there I guess. Overall, the interior definitely feels like a step up the luxury ladder. I won't deny that the interior of the 1st gen cars is starting to look a bit more like a Honda than something more.

The Genre/Name/Title display for the radio has to be set each time the radio comes on (whether you turn it on or re-start the car) and that's kind of a pain in the butt (I'm strictly XM, and I use the display all the time).

I have no complaints about the electric power steering, other than it does occasionally feel just a little over boosted. This is the first car I've driven with it, and I'd say that if this is the future, then I'll not worry about it.

I happen to like the automatic door locking feature. I've always locked the doors once under way (as a first responder, I've too often seen the results of unlocked doors in an accident), but I also realize that it probably gives many operators fits. I think you may be able to modify this feature; I think I remember reading something about it in the owner's manual.

The lever (now a button) to open the trunk has moved from the floor to the driver's door panel. This is probably a good thing, though I doubt I'll ever develop the natural motion to use it the way I have to assume we all do/did in the first gen cars. There is nothing that needs to be done to open the gas door; it's unlocked as long as the car is unlocked.

I haven't had occasion to use the shift paddles yet. I've always found the AT to be pretty intuitive, and though I can't say that I've won't use the paddles, I'm inclined to let the transmission decide what gear it wants to be in. Plus, and though it's just an old gearhead's suspicion, I don't think manually shifting the AT on a regular basis is good for it. Just something I feel in the seat of my pants....

I'm kind of reluctant to admit it, but I have no complaints about the OE Michelin's. This may actually say more about the car than the tires, but I'm in no hurry to replace them with anything more oriented toward performance. Of course it is winter, and since I've decided to hold off on buying new snow tires till the fall, if at all (the 2nd gen uses a bigger tire than my 05, and I'm not doing anywhere near as many miles as I used to), hopefully the Michelin's will be up to the task of getting me through what winter weather we have (the 3 feet of snow outside the door not withstanding) .

Although the car certainly doesn't feel any lighter, the doors sure do. You can literally close any one of them with one finger. This is an observation, not a complaint. The car is I think noticeably quieter at highway speeds than my 05, and like the older car, eats up freeway miles. But.... I guess it feels.... more mature I guess. Maybe it's the Buick thing....

The glove box is a joke. Wide, but very shallow, it's difficult to keep much in it. And without removing the shelf (for the owner's manual), forget it. It is easier to replace the cabin filter though; no more disassembling the door hanging mechanisms. The console storage has changed. The lower storage is a different shape, and I think smaller. The top compartment (where you could lift just the armrest itself) has disappeared.

The seat belt latches (the front ones anyway, on either side of the console) seem to have been lowered for some reason. They seem to be really down there, and if you have a coat on, they could be a real chore to find and to reach. This is I suppose more of an observation, since I assume it's a matter of just getting used to it. But I'm a pretty big guy, and I have to really shift my ass to reach down and buckle the seat belt. I had my 91 y/o father with me the other night, and though he is much smaller (and getting more so by the week it seems....) than I am, I basically had to find it for him. I only mention this because it's one of those things that you're reminded of every time you buckle up. Also, I have the seat as low as it will go, so if the seat is higher, it will be even worse (the latch is usually bolted to the floor pan of the car, so I can't imagine it moves with the seat, but I don't know)(hmm.... I'll have to check that out).

I guess that's about all I can think of right now. I'll probably add more as time goes on, and I hope others will contribute too.

Boulder TSX

Thanks for taking the time to post that, Simba.

I had taken note that you moved on to the 2G TSX and was actually hoping you might compare the two generations. Interesting observations. I had the opportunity to drive a 2010 model as a loaner for 3 days, but owning one allows one to get a better view of things.

I agree with your main opinions. I think the leather in the 2G is nicer, too...but also agree that 1G 'begs to go out and play'...and that's what makes me smile every time I step into the car. While the 2G sounds nice in its own right, the driving experience you described is the main reason I'm thinking I'll hang on to my 06 a while.

Congrats on the new car and hope to hear more about it.

R_R4

Nice write-up! We're still digging out of the snowstorm that hit Ontario (Canada) on Friday. The amount of salt they use on roads here is ridiculous (albeit necessary). I saw an 04-05 PWP TSX with visible rust on its rear quarter panel. Made me sigh just a little because I know that no matter how much I try to keep this car clean during the winter, salt creeps into small nooks and crannies that I'll never be able to access.

This is my favorite car thus far, and I've grown attached to it in the short while I've had it. The VSA has saved my butt many times when driving in the snow, since I run all-season tires. I'll be looking for an 08 in 2 years or so, although I don't know what the future holds. The Lexus CT200h semms to be a good option too, as fuel economy is becoming more important to me. I hear those cars have plenty of steering feel and are fun to drive...... for a hybrid! LOL!

Enjoy the new TSX, Simba. They're great cars, and it's still a TSX - just a mature one.

Simba91102

If it's any consolation, we're exposed to plenty of salt here in New England too. I'm thinking rust isn't a big problem with the TSX; we'd be hearing more about it here. My 05 was amazingly rust free everywhere considering it's age and mileage, and that includes the underside too (with the exception of the catalytic converter heat shield). And that car spent every winter since new traveling on often salt covered roads. Hopefully, you'll enjoy the same experience!

WheelMcCoy

2012 TSX Wagon here. What kind of tires were on the 1G TSX?

I've read the OE Michelins (Pilot HX MXM4) are a good balance between comfort and sportiness. They are also ok in snow because they have a high silica content which keeps them from becoming hard as hockey pucks on freezing pavement. Car and Driver has a good review

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...hx-mxm4-page-3

And yes, the glove box just holds 1 glove! Thanks for the write-up.

Simba91102

The first gen cars used the same tire as OE (well, as "same" as it could be. Though it was the same model, I doubt Michelin is building the same tire it did in 2004). And I agree that it has been favorably reviewed by a number of those that do so, including Consumer Reports. But I based my comment on the relatively widespread consensus here (the 1st gen forum) that is not a favorable one. I will admit that I did not have much (if any) experience with the OE tire on my 05; they were replaced right around the same time I started driving it. I raised it as an issue basically for the benefit of others. And I truly do believe that it says more about the car, and not necessarily in a negative sense. I think it may just work better on the present TSX than it did on the earlier cars (for one thing, it's a bigger size on a wider wheel). I have no intention of replacing them, though they're very expensive and I certainly wouldn't buy them; too many other good tires out there for far less money.

mrgold35

I've always liked the exterior styling of the +09 TSX more than the +09 TL. I’ve seen a silver +09 TSX with the full OEM body kit and it looks pretty good. I've had a couple of +09 TSX loaners when my TSX or RDX was in the shop. I really love the rear styling of the +09 TSX (the rear of the +09 TL looks like face with the tail lights for eyes, Acura symbol as a nose, and smiling metal trim).

I like the upgraded luxury of the +09 TSX (same upgrades with my 08 RDX). I just did not like the center stack because it looked more Honda compared to Acura. I still haven't fully accepted the large shield grill of the earlier models. I prefer the tone down grill of the later models (the 13 ILX/RDX front grills looked the best to me).

I will have to see if the TSX will survive the into the 3G version. If it doesn’t, I would consider a +09 version down the road to take over commuter duties of my 06 TSX.

Simba91102

We shall see if there is a 3rd gen TSX. Even though it was recently announced that there will be a new Accord for markets other than North America, recent events here seems to imply that Honda's marketing plan does not include a new TSX for North America. I think a reasonable person would assume that since it is such a popular car, Honda would waist no time in giving us one (the 2nd gen has sold well, but Honda has to know that it has little of the allure and charm that the 1st gen car enjoyed). But.... using history as a guide, I have zero faith in Honda to do the right thing. I guess time will tell.

Simba91102

A little more than 6 months have passed since I took the helm of my 010 TSX. Time and mileage have allowed me to I think add some more insight into the differences between the two generations of TSX. I've grown used to the newer car, and though I don't think I actually look forward to a trip of some length (the way I sometimes did in my 05), I'll gladly admit that the 2nd gen TSX is a superb long distance cruiser in it's own right.

I think the ride on not great highways is definitely better. It's well controlled, less harsh, quieter, an still has fairly good rebound control (though I do miss the Koni Yellows I had under the 05, and the lower stance they provided). Part of this may be due to the tires, but I had little experience with the OEM Michelin's on the 05 or the 07, so I can't say for sure. And though I don't necessarily mean this in a negative way, there is never a time when the newer car doesn't feel bigger and like you're sitting higher.

I rarely get to drive the 07 now a days, and even less so any considerable distance. I did get a chance to take a mostly highway little trip in it though, and boy was I reminded of what a different car the 010 is. For one thing, the older car feels much more like you're sitting in it as opposed to the feeling that I sometimes get in the newer car, which is that I'm sitting on it. And though the older interior may be getting a little long in tooth, it still works. The seats are still comfortable, and it's slightly smaller size just feels more enveloping. And though I know it's just a personal observation, there were/are just so many things about the 1 gen cars that are the perfect size, in the perfect place, and work so well, that it's hard to transfer that admiration to something else.

This thing (the 010) gets tremendous gas mileage. The nanny (average since last fill) I think makes it impossible to not try to improve the average as time progresses (and the tank empties). I never average less than 28, and can often see just over 30 mpg from a tank. Now granted, that probably like 80%-90% highway, but that's also with average cruising speeds in low to mid 80's. I can only imagine what it could do at 72 mph with the cruise control on (though I'm convinced that except for cruising on the flattest roads, you'll see better mileage driving with your right foot on the accelerator). One thing I've noticed (or should I say confirmed, and pay attention too) is what an effect a headwind or tailwind can have on highway mileage. I have no doubt that there is easily as much as a 10% spread between the two.

The headlights are a huge improvement. They have a very sharp horizontal cutoff, but that's a good thing, and they have excellent overlap on each side of the road. This is less noticeable on the highway, but on a road with no street lights, they provide impressive vision.

I like the new car, and would certainly recommend it (to someone shopping in that market). Would I buy one again if I had to do it over? Good question.... I wouldn't be surprised if the new Accord is cannibalizing sales. I haven't driven one (and wouldn't consider one till next year, with Honda's record of first model year hiccups), were I in the market. Because of that, I don't have first hand comparison experience. The earlier Accords drove/handled quite a bit differently than the 1st gen TSX did (and not in a good way), so there was little or no contest then. I've read the difference has narrowed considerably. That said, perhaps the supposed fairly imminent demise of the TSX is good timing.

My wife's 07 is approaching 200K miles, and she'll most likely keep it till it doesn't go anymore (or suffers some type of traumatic failure)(which is I guess the same thing). I'll be leaving the brand in the not too distant future. My career will allow me to retire at a relatively young age and that's what I'm going to do. Among other things, that means I once again get to start driving more of what I want and less of what I need (there's an 09 or 010 E63 AMG out there with my name on it somewhere....). The TSX's have served their purpose well over the years, and I commend Honda for building such fine, reliable machines. If the weather and the amount of miles driven continued to be a factor, I have no doubt that I'd continue to drive one. But.... nothing lasts forever.

Boulder TSX

Interesting observations...and thanks for the update. Your continued experience with both generation cars is fairly unique here.

A couple of questions: In your first post on your new car, you mentioned not noticing much difference with the electric vs. hydraulic steering. (Some of the car magazines seemed to focus on that as a problem, as they have with new BMWs.) Still no noticeable difference when you go back and forth between cars?

Also, I had read that Acura retuned the K24 engine, (reducing the HP slightly), but increasing torque. Can you notice better initial acceleration with the 2010?

Simba91102

I guess I should have updated that comparison as it's one of the larger aspects of the driving experience. The is a marked difference between the two power steering systems (you'll never confuse them). The newer car has far more boost, and can feel over boosted at times. It always demands less steering effort (so more boost). I had gotten used to the 010 and had forgotten how different the steering in the first gen car feels (I was reminded the last time I drove it over the road). That said, I pushed the car into understeer (on purpose) on a damp exit ramp the other day, and I must say that I felt more through the wheel than I thought I would. Again, the less effort can make the steering can feel like "hmm.... I wonder if this is going to telegraph that the ragged line approaches?" as well as the older car did/does. One way to find out.... I haven't decided if I like the electric power steering more, less, or I don't care. It may be the latter. It is definitely different, but not necessarily in a bad way. I think it's gotten a bad rap in the press, and I would urge anyone that tries it, or is considering a newer gen car, to try and make your decision about it. And.... it is the future, so I have to assume that the technology (hence the steering) will only get better.

You're right about the engines; you may not even recognize that they're related (and I think the vtech is more noticeable in the newer design). The new one has I think much better low end response (so better driveability)(with the AT anyway), and though you can still get caught with less torque than you're hoping for, you're less likely to reach for high revs to get moving. The earlier design feels a little more high strung, so more.... racier I guess (whatever that means). But for 95% of street driving, the redesign is a a big improvement.

WheelMcCoy

For the curious, I found this article about electric vs hydraulic assist steering on CarAndDriver:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...n-test-feature

Their results? Much like what Simba91102 recounted; neither is superior. It's what you get used to and learn to trust.

Simba91102 -- I've always enjoyed your thoughtful comments (and your avatar ) All the best in retirement, cruising in an E63 AMG!

Boulder TSX

Interesting observations in regard to both subjects...in particular the engine. Your description matches what I had read (and experienced in limited contact). I had read that the new VTEC management was similar to the powerband one finds after Hondata reflash, and it sounds like that might be the case.

I did get to drive a 2010 TSX for two days when I had my '06 in the shop for an airbag issue. The power steering did seem a bit over-assisted to me, as you mentioned. The other thing I noticed was the on-center feeling was not really "there" and I had trouble knowing when the wheel was centered without looking at it.

As for the engine, (my loaner was an automatic), and it did have a little more torque from 0-30 than an automatic first gen car I had test-driven...yet seemed very similar to what I'm used to with my 6MT.

If only they had kept the size and weight of the 2G TSX down to 1G dimensions, (and diminished the chrome proboscis up front), it could have been even better.

Simba91102

You hit the nail on the head with this. As I mentioned earlier, at no time does the newer car not feel bigger. I may be more sensitive to it since I feel/felt that the 1st gen car is the perfect size (we get one of those every now and then, my last being my B6 S4).

I also agree about the nose, and won't deny that I have been as negative about it as anyone. But, it is what it is, I couldn't let it be a deal breaker, and I'm used to it. I had forgotten (or didn't know) that they downsized the grill in 011, though I doubt that would have changed my mind about an 010 (cheaper).

Boulder TSX

I agree on all counts. (And yes, those S4's were quite a nice package.)

I've gotten accustomed to the chrome nose, too...but still think it was a design mistake, (particularly with the 2009-2011 TL, and mainly in terms of perception in the market and subsequent sales.)

Oddly, it seems that Honda got the message that the Accord had become too large and heavy in the previous generation...and addressed those complaints with the new Accord. It's a shame that they did not apply the same approach to the TSX and let it live on with a third iteration. It appears that 2014 may be the last year for the current model.

--And we will see what the TLX brings in terms of tidiness and form. (The spy photos are not encouraging.)

Simba91102

I never have thought (and still don't think) that the 2nd gen TSX is as attractive as the first gen car from a strictly design standpoint. Perhaps a bit more "contemporary", but that's only because sharp creases and over emphasized wheel openings seem to be the fashion now; ditto (only more so) the most recent TL, RL, and RLX.

The availability of a 2014 TSX has been the subject of much conjecture over on the 2nd gen forum. Many, including me, have been of the opinion that it wouldn't happen, though I've changed my mind about that. I can't imagine that Honda would invest in updating the car much though, as it will just be continuation model. I assume that whenever they discontinue the European and home market Accord, and start using the global platform, that will be the death knell for the TSX. It seems that the TLX (built on the global Accord platform) will replace the TL and to some degree, the TSX. The ILX is supposed to be placed to pick up the TSX slack, and maybe if Honda continues to try and make it the car it should have been to begin with, they may succeed. The TLX being built in America, along with Acura's design (or lack of) direction leaves me confident that I won't be impresed. But, since the new Accord seems to be a winner, maybe that success will transfer to the TLX too.

Simba91102

I never have thought (and still don't think) that the 2nd gen TSX is as attractive as the first gen car from a strictly design standpoint. Perhaps a bit more "contemporary", but that's only because sharp creases and over emphasized wheel openings seem to be the fashion now; ditto (only more so) the most recent TL, RL, and RLX.

The availability of a 2014 TSX has been the subject of much conjecture over on the 2nd gen forum. Many, including me, have been of the opinion that it wouldn't happen, though I've changed my mind about that. I can't imagine that Honda would invest in updating the car much though, as it will just be a continuation model. I assume that whenever they discontinue the European and home market Accord, and start using the global platform, that will be the death knell for the TSX. It seems that the TLX (built on the global Accord platform) will replace the TL and to some degree, the TSX. The ILX is supposed to be placed to pick up the TSX slack, and maybe if Honda continues to try and make it the car it should have been to begin with, they may succeed. The TLX being built in America, along with Acura's design (or lack of) direction leaves me confident that I won't be impressed. But, since the new Accord seems to be a winner, maybe that success will transfer to the TLX too.

Iceman

The 1st gen. TSX's are the best cars I've ever owned. I've driven one as my daily driver for over 10 years now. I can't imagine buying a new Honda or Acura now. They are very successful in this country, building big cars for big Americans. European-sized sedans with outstanding handling and fuel economy are no longer in their future plans, or so it seems to me. The TLX is too big, and the ILX is a badge-engineered Civic. I am really feeling abandoned here.

Simba91102

These have been my sentiments exactly for the last few years. But now that I'm retired (yesterday was my official date ), and hence my commuting days are over, my ability to drive just about anything allows me to completely redefine the term "daily driver". I still think that Honda builds a fine automobile, but they started to build it for someone else some time ago.