dipkat

Hello all,
I am currently researching the market for buying a luxury sport sedan (automatic) under $30 K. After lots of research, I have narrowed down 2 vehicles that fit the bill,

1. 2006 Aucra TSX + Navi
2. VW Jetta 2.0T with Package 3

Both these cars are amazing vehicles in this category and each of them has its 'pro's and 'cons'. I am looking for some feedback that will tip my decision in favor of the TSX.

Here is a my summary of the 'pros' and 'cons' for each of them;

--------------------

TSX Pros

Voice Recognition - Audio, Navi, Telematics
Memory outside mirrors
Leather wrapped steering wheel
Driver Recognition -key
Intelligent Maintenance minder
Better interior/exterior styling
Integrated Bluetooth telematics is top of the class
dual outlet exhaust
Better reliability and re-sale value
Larger fuel tank - 17.3 gallons
Top of the line Navi with touch screen
Voice recognition iPod control and Aux jack
Better warranty on powertrain 6yr/70K mi
NHTSA 5* crash ratings

--------------------

Jetta 2.0T-loaded (Package 3) - Pros

One-touch up/down control for all windows
Pneumatic hinges on trunk and hood
larger trunk - 16 cubic feet
heated washer nozzles for windshield wipers
one-touch turn light blinkers
rear park assist sensors - Park Pilot
Amazing 600 Watt premium audio, with MP3 playback
Better rear-arm rest design
5 setting heated full seats driver and passenger
2.0 T with DSG with 6A, give more performance
12-way driver side power seat with 3 position memory
Better tires 225/45/17
Better turning circle (35.1 ft) and lower ground clearance (5.4 in)
Adjustable front foowtell lighting
Better - locks on doors with theft detterent lighting
Autolocking of doors when vehicle reaches 8 mph
Cooled glove-box and center arm rest storage compartment
Power outlet in trunk
Selective door opening with key
washers for xenon rheadlights
manual rear sunshade
12-way power passenger seats
Rain sensing vipers

--------------------

TSX Cons

Underpowered. Power and torque deliver at higher RPMs.
No one-touch turn light blinkers
No pneumatic hinges on trunk and hood
No one-couch up/down window control
(except driver side)
No midrange control on audio system
No variable setting on heated seats
Front Passenger seat, back is not heated
Yet another Japanese styled sedan. Exterior design is nothing special
No MP3 playback in stero system
Vipers are intermittent and not Rain/Speed sensing

--------------------


Jetta 2.0T-loaded (Package 3) - Pros

Bland interior and exterior
Reliability
No aux jack
No voice recognition system
Lack of storage space under arm rest and center console
In dash Navi relocates 6-CD changer to center arm rest

--------------------

Price wise both are around the 29K mark and both of them offer a lot of
bang for the buck. In my conclusion the basic difference between the 2 is;
- The TSX is high on luxury and low on sport.
- The loaded Jetta 2.0T is the truly sporty and offers most luxury features.

Also edmunds rightly rates the Jetta GLI (same engine and DSG as the 2.0T) higher than the TSX.

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...7/pageNumber=1

- dipkat

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Actually, if you go and drive the TSX (and read that edmunds review carefully), you'll discover that it really is a lot sportier than people give it credit for. The Jetta GLI, even according to the edmunds review, exhibited less steering precision, greater body roll, and greater suspension motion than the TSX and also had a lower emergency lane change speed.

While my view might be skewed as a two-time TSX owner, I really think you need to drive the two cars back to back to better decide for yourself. I think the TSX is by far the better car, especially from a reliability and resale standpoint. But decide for yourself with a back to back test drive and you can really see for yourself just which car is the more enjoyable one based on your criteria.

Oh, and one final note...

If you think the TSX is underpowered, you need to take a ride in an 06 with an experienced, seasoned, long-time Honda/Acura driver. If you still think the TSX is underpowered after that, then perhaps it's not the right car for you.

dom

And that was a GLI. The 2.0T will not handle as well.

Personally I'd go TSX mainly because I can't stand the styling of the Jetta. But only you can make this decesion. 95% of resposes your going to get here will say TSX so I'm not sure how thats going to help.

mg7726

get a jetta and deal with VW? Hell no!!

that's just my opinion

ninjamyst

Hmm...Just looking at the specs, I think the Jetta GLI is a better buy. The nav on the TSX is cool but the Jetta also got some neat technologies. But until they improve their reliability, I wouldn't buy a VW, especially this is a first year model. If you don't need a car right away, I would wait to see if VW's reliability improved. They have admitted their reliability sucks and they will work on it.

dipkat

I did test drive both of them back to back. Actually I test drove both the GLI and the 2.0T with DSG and this is what I feel;

- the GLI model has the sport tuned suspension and stiffer steering wheel as such it gives you get more road feel and the handling feels stiffer. Also the edmunds comparison was based on the 6MT of the GLI and TSX. I am researching the TSX 5A vs. the 2.0T 6A with DSG (Direct Shift Gearbox).

In the 2.0T the suspension is not sports tuned and the steering wheel feels more lighter and precise than the GLI. The DSG by far is a killer and gives you amazing control. There is no power loss between gear change and the shifts are instantaneous. When I test drove the TSX compared to the 2.0T, I found the pickup to be very sluggish and the upshits to be very long.

Also, I belive if you plan to keep the car for a long time to come, the resale value is insignificant. I think in terms of pure thrill-to-drive the Jetta 2.0T with the DSG outclasses the TSX by a huge margin. The torque curve is flat and max. torque is delivered at 1800 RPM. Also max. HP is delivered at 3500 RPM which is amazing.

narci

do a search, there's a huge thread about jetta vs tsx.

The_Irritator

Small correction - the TSX wipers are speed-sensing, and you can play MP3 CDs.

In the end, I think it boils down to personal preference. The cons you list for each vehicle seem like minor issues, and what may be a deal breaker for you may not be an issue at all for others. Although I disagree with your conclusion, it seems that "sportiness" and "luxury" might be your main criteria, so get the Jetta. Again, it's all subjective. For me, it's about reliability and quality: The TSX is one of C&D's top 10 cars (again), and is highly recommended by Consumer Reports (again).

dom

The DSG is probly the best tranny available in any car right now period. So there's really no point comparing it to an AT.

Sounds like you already made up your mind to me

dipkat

Not to forget. VW (currently) offers 2.9 % APR financing (for well-qualified buyers) for 48 months. Try getting a similiar deal from Acura. The Acura dealership that I talked to offered 5.9% APR for 48 months. Even if you go with private financing through your bank, I would be surprised that you would get anything below 5%. Over 4 yrs of TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) and adjusting the differnce between resale values of the 2, the price paid for the Jetta still works out better. The differnce b/w $29K financed at 2.9% vs. $29K finaced at 5.9% APR is about $2000

jackacc

Reliability is the biggest factor I take into consideration when I buy a car. VW has not exhibited a strong hold on relibility over the years, and their parts and labor are astronomical. Honda products never let me or anyone in my family down. My 2 sisters still have mid 90's accord EX's with over 250,000 on them and running strong! I expect the same from my TSX.

And it really is a sporty car, IMO. Granted, I was coming from an 01 Accord so this was a major step up for me. It has enough pep for my taste, and handling is excellent.

I am Hondafied so I will obviously vote TSX.

dipkat

I think the availability of the DSG in the commonplace automotive market has been one of the most significant innovations of this year. This DSG is the same that is used in the Audi A3, A4 and the Bugatti race cars.

Benefits of DSG:
- Lighter transmission (approx. 100 lbs. lighter than a regualar At, reduces overall weight)
- Instantaneous shifts
- Precision control.
- Longer lasting and more reliable (IMO)
- Minimal to none power loss between gear shifts

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I'd love to see your values for resale. Considering that I was told that a car like the Mazdaspeed6 has a 4 year residual of only 37%, whereas the TSX has a 4 year residual of 56%, I would imagine the difference in resale values would be quite different for the VW and the TSX.

And as dom said, it sounds like you've made up your mind already so what more do you hope to get by posting here?

dipkat

You are right. It is a matter of personal choice in the end. My dilemma is that I cannot seem to decide.
I am trying to decide between the superior performance (2.0T with 6A DSG) of the Jetta vs. the superior styling and luxury features (Voice Recognition, Navi, bluetooth) that TSX offers. Back to square one on the decision board.

msterling21

The Jetta is fugly and looks like a Corolla. So far, people close to me who don't know much about cars, say my TSX looks like a bimmer.

Ellas9

I used to sell cars, used one's. My friends loved VW's, I refused to sell people I knew VW's and Audi's because I didn't want the headaches. If your keeping your car for under 2 years - reliability is much less a factor; if not, look away from VW - nothing but problems. Not to mention the resale factor, heavily favours the Acura.

The TSX is indeed sporty, body roll is as low as it gets for the kind of ride quality you receive. If it had better tires, the handling is almost hands down in favour of the TSX. Power, yea, I'd give that to the VW - but both trannies in the Acura are better shifters, smoother and have better precision, than the VW. The VW is alright looking with a lowering kit and some skirts but the rear end is terrible. Keep in mind the increased maintenance and care it takes to own a turbo charged car - no regular fuel - none, or you'll pay.

Bottom line, most everyone on this site either seriously considered the VW or the thought crossed their minds - they all, or most all, chose the Acura. Drive them and see. As you can tell, I'm biased, but actually I feel that there are VW and Honda people - they are like oil and water - they'll never mix!

dipkat

www.alg.com lists the typical resale values for cars. From the TSX page of the Acura website, the ALG residual value of the TSX vs. Jetta 2.0 T is as follows

TSX : 56% @ 36 months & 39% @ 60 months
Jetta: 47% @ 36 months & 30% @ 60 months

If you do the math for both assuming approx. $29000 is the standard going price, it is;

TSX : $16240 @ 36 months & $11310 @ 60 months
Jetta: $13630 @ 36 months & $8700 @ 60 months

If you now negate the difference of $2000 paid more on financing the TSX, after 60 months, the Jetta is still about $500 cheaper.

Objectively I can say that over a long period of time the Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) is approximately the same to a point where the difference b/w the resale values of the 2 are insignificant.

dom

Now factor in maintenance/repairs....

ninjamyst

TSX looks like a bimmer???? Where's the resemblance?? TSX looks like a civic from the side, the old gen camry or integra from the back, and a TL from the front.

ninjamyst

You can play MP3 CDs?? Are you sure about that????

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Based on your numbers, and accounting for the $2000 of financing difference, there is still a $610 advantage for the TSX (i.e. if you were to sell the car at 60 months, the TSX would be worth $610 more overall)

Plus, with the maintenance cost (especially now that the TSX has a longer warranty than before) factored in, the VW will likely cost more in the long run. The TSX now has standard service intervals of 10k miles and the lack of a turbo means that the TSX services will total to less in the long run.

Also, did you factor in other things regarding cost of ownership like tires, brakes, and fuel? Performance tires like those on the GLI are going to be much more expensive and wear much quicker than the all-season tires on the TSX.

dipkat

Standard/Same on both;

Oil changes every 10K mi and first tune-up at 100K mi.

The oil change for the Jetta costs $32+ taxes. I do not know what Acura charges.

Standard power train warranty covers the Jetta until 60K mi and the TSX until 70K mi. For the first 100K mi. I do not think we can assume too much maintenance on both.

The_Irritator

"MP3 Player

The TSX MP3/WMA/CD-A player is essentially a CD player that plays not only commercial audio CDs, but can also decode MP3 and WMA audio compression
Dash-mounted for operating convenience
Provides hours of uninterrupted home-quality sound
Price shown includes required installation kit

MSRP: $551.00 "


By the way, the marketing for the Jetta is embarrassing. All over VW's website it states,"It's all grown up...", "The grown-up Jetta..". There's something seriously wrong when you've acknowledged that your only real market is chicks in their early 20s who want a 325 bimmer but can't afford one (a.k.a "trixies").

dipkat

I was wrong in my math. The TSX would be a little cheaper. Although, I see your point that given VW's reliability and the turbo engine, you should anticipate more maintenance.

dipkat

No really .. I still have not made up my mind in favor of either. I leaning more towards the TSX, given its relaibility track record. But, then there's this VW Jetta devil on my right shoulder that keeps screaming DSG .. DSG ... DSG

Tintin

reliability is a main factor. if you factor in all the time you are taking off work to be at the dealer, and all the time wasted there (i had a jetta, i know!) and if you do agree that time = money, the TSX is a lot cheaper.

Colin

In it's last year of production, the Jetta fell below 100,000 units sold. The new car should do at least that much, if not more. The TSX will probably max out at 30,000 this year. There is going to be a lot more Jettas on the roads in one year that Acura has put on the roads in three!

supraken

iTrader: (1)

dipkat, how much can you get the Jetta for? According to your posts, I think you'll be happier with the Jetta, sounds like you'll regret getting the TSX due to the difference in power and feature, some time down the road...

...although you really can't go wrong with either one.

I think you can (without too much trouble) get a '06 TSX for invoice + $500 at this time of the year, according to another thread and from quotes I have gotten.

IlliNorge

If audio is of any concern, there is no better "stock" system than the TSX (Acura in general) including a 600 watt VW. Even Audi's Bose system doesn't compare.

There's a reason resale is so much higher with the TSX. Even if you don't plan to resell, you'll be in the shop all the time after 2 yrs, maybe sooner with a VW. Excellent point about the first year model for VW being iffy. TSX is third year and has ironed out some rattle issues.

dipkat

I actually received a quote of $27620 (Invoice Price) + 2.9% APR for 48 months from a dealer in NJ. (I live in Princeton, NJ). Pretty good deal huh !

Though, I need to verify if this includes $600 approx. for the destination/delivery charges.

dipkat

Now why is that more Jetta's are selling compared to the TSX's. One reason I can think of is that, the base-line Jetta's also compete with the Corolla's & Civic's

psteng19

Rode in my friend's new GLI 2.0T.
I must say it's a fine car and with the blacked out grill, it looks much better than the chrome found in the 2.5.

One touch up/down on all windows and sunroof is a nice feature I'd like on the TSX.
I just can't get over the perceived unreliability of VW's.
My cousin had a Passat that was nothing but problems and she finally sold it at a huge loss.

Is DSG like SMG, i.e. true manual without a clutch pedal, no torque converter?
If so, I'm shocked they can offer it at a car in this price range. That's impressive.

dipkat

The Jetta's are in their second year of production. Model year 2005 was the first, this is the second year od production. Also, what disappointed me a little was the fact that the TSX does not have 'midrange' control.

The premium audio system in the Jetta is provide by DynAudio, a Danish company that specializes in hi-end audio system. They are in the same league as Harmon Kardon, Mark Levinson, etc..

psteng19

On the pros for the TSX, add free loaners and better service (car wash for each service plus free drinks while you wait)

dipkat

Yep, this is a true Manual that is controlled by a electronics. No torque converter, dual clutch plates, one for the odd gears and reverse and the other for the even gears. The same system thats in use in the Audi A3, A4 and the Bugatti's. Its really amazing. They can offer this in a car under $30 K.

dom

The tranny and engine are truly gems IMO.

Not to mention the fact that you can get some serious power of of the 2.0T with simple chip, its mighty tempting.

peter_bigblock

It sounds like you're leaning toward the refinement and flawless features of the TSX, but that DSG would be one cool thing to have and the extra power makes you feel the GLI is more sporting. Ask yourself this: when the newness and neatness of a new car wears off, what will you be glad you have: the luxury, nav, and terrific interior of the TSX along with a big dollop of sport, or the more athletic power of the GLI with a generous dollop of features? And, as you get older, what?

Also, I would counsel you to choose based on the things you can't change since every car is a compromise in stock form. Engine refinement, transmission fabulousness, styling (inside and out), chassis construction, build quality, those are things that are intrinsic to the car. Horsepower, suspension, tires, stereo systems, etc., can be changed to suit you as you grow into a car.

Finally, don't forget that reliability is more than just how much the parts cost or how long the warranty is. Car problems are a pain in the ass, a car in the shop is a pain in the ass, getting stranded someplace is a major pain in the ass. We had a Volvo V70 XC that was a wonderful car when everything worked right, but it frequently had niggling things going wrong -- CELs, lights burning out, windows wouldn't go back up, interior lights wouldn't come on or (worse) wouldn't go off, door panels that delaminated -- all endemic to Volvos as I learned in online forums and other sites. I got tired of getting a call from my wife that the such-and-so on the Volvo doesn't work. They all added up to a mediocre experience with what, on paper, was an excellent car. We finally sold it, after five years, for 27% of its cost new with only 90k miles on it.

Food for thought.

dipkat

An interesting take on the DSG

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articl...6jetta_dsg.htm

dipkat

Wow ... you are are really making me think. Thanks for you honest and straightforward feedback. Hopefully, I can sleep over it. To sum it up, its a toss-up between 'The beauty (TSX) and the beast (Jetta)'

nwalbert

The DSG is not in the A4.

Despite being so similiar in specs, they truly are very very differant cars. I owned an A4 18.T before that experience drove me to buy an Acura this time. I refused to be in the situation where ever little rattle or ding my car made freaked me out. The only thing I miss about that car is the Quattro AWD system. I am much happier with my TSX, and that was an Audi not a VW.

To me, the VW has DSG which is very cool and does offer nice performance, though make sure you test it and shift twice very quickly before deciding as this will act much more like a tiptronic transmission, but the Acura wins in every other category.

If extra power and a straight torque curve is what you want (I like the high revving engines better ), and you dont mind being in the shop alot, get the VW.

Just my $.02