TinkySD

After a 2+ month wait I picked up my new TT 2.0t/DSG on Friday evening! I was pretty bummed to see the TSX which I drove so much go

I was expecting the worst when it came to the offer they would make on my TSX and was willing to keep it and sell it private or carmax. Luckily for me the Audi dealership I'm working with is part of the same family as where I bought and maintained my TSX so I was quite pleased with the offer they made me. It was actually a couple grand higher than the Galves Auction price I had looked up and right in line with good trade-in-value on Kelley Blue Book. Long story short I took home the Audi and am expecting a large check from Audi in the next week. (I'm leasing so no reason to put the money down)

So after only a few days of driving here are a few short takes.

Drivetrain - I'm trying to be a good citizen and follow break in procedures and I can tell you that even at 1/2 throttle and limiting to 4k rpms the TT is substantially quicker than my 5at TSX would be full out. I supposes 400 fewer pounds a 6 speed tranny and a turbo will do that for you. My initial assesments(without actually ever getting fully into the throttle) is that 2nd gear in the audi pulls much harder than first in the TSX and 6th gear on the audi accelerates at freeway speeds like 3rd in the 5at. Literally night and day difference. It's proving very difficult not to hit the throttle to see what she can do at full boost.

The DSG is fantastic. Shifts are so quick and precise there is no pause in acceleration as you shift from one gear to another. It has the added bonus of keeping the turbo fully spooled as you enter the next gear.

I will say that D mode in the DSG is a bit upshift happy(we're talking 3rd gear by the other side of the intersection) but Sport mode is an absolute blast. It holds gears appropriate and downshifts upon entering corners like it can read your mind.

Most of my time is spent in Manual mode just like with the tsx.

Handling -- The TSX is a very competent handler... especially an 04 with summer ties and an upgraded rear sway but the TT, stock, is a cut above. Turn in is much quicker, tracking and on center feel is better and it handles uneven surfaces leaps and bounds better than the TSX.(what I would consider the TSXs biggest weakness) I will say that the steering on the TSX felt a little more precise at low speed. The audi has that electro mechanical mumbo-jumbo that makes the steering a bit sloppy at parking lot speeds. I also must say that having a 34.7 ft turning circle is much nicer than the 40ft in the tsx. Make it feel much more nimble. Understeer between the stock TT and the TSX with rear sway is quite similar. I will most likely be getting a h&r rear way for the TT however.

Braking - No comparison. The audi stops like a champ.

Mileage - Still on my first tank but I'm it seems like I'm going to get high 20s for the first tank. On the same routes I would never get better than 24-25 in the tsx. That's likely because of my own driving style. But with TT I can get the same performance in higher gears and lower RPMS.

Insurance - Surprisingly I'm paying about 40 dollars less every 6 months.

Engine/Exhaust Note - I'm pleasantly surprised with the note on the TT. They dialed up the intake/exhaust note from what you would hear on the GTI. It has a nice sporty sound and you get a nice burble on overrun or during shifts when you are on the throttle.

Interior - I loved the interior on the TSX and I love the interior on the TT. The orange lighting is definitely cool and the sports seats are a huge improvement over those in the TSX. It is also nice having external dimming mirrors.

The one thing I miss on the TSX is storage space! In the audi the glovebox is teeny and there is almost no other storage space. It's so limited I'm actually going to finally program the homelink garage door opener so I don't have to carry the transmitter around. I guess more incentive to keep the car tidy.


For those about to tell me , I KNOW! My digi cam is busted and I'm picking up a new one on Saturday and will put up some pics this weekend.

acn684

niCe! The new TT's are really nice. I would really consider a TT if I a) had the cash, b) had a spare sedan, c) in the market for a new car. Now go get a damn camera and post some pics!

LuvMyTSX

Congrats! Sounds like you are enjoying your new car.

jlukja

Congrats.

<-- wishes he had a new toy to play with.

Tsx536

Hey congrats man...You rolled the TSX for a long time and have also been on the forum for a long time. Glad you found another ride that makes you happy

TinkySD

The TSX was a fantastic car; I'll never say a bad word about it.(other than having a high mileage 04 scared me!) It was just time to move on to something a little different and a whole lot of fun.

Like I said before I'm just leasing so if the new TSX is everything we hope it should be I might be back in the Acura stable come 2010.

bluefang08

I love the looks of those new TT's. Wasn't much of a fan of the old ones at all.

Sclass88

Congrats on the new Audi! Only seen a few around Boston but they are beautiful.

How many miles were on your TSX? I don't think I could part with mine, too much sentimental value but the new Audi is a nice upgrade.

dwest1023

Two entirely different cars. What you did not compare was reliability. The service manager will be your friend, but while the TT is working, it will be fun to drive.

CarbonGray Earl

Congrats! it looks like a nice car....

TinkySD

How about this for a comparison:

Number of windows motors failed:
tsx: 2
audi: 0

Number of center consoles that went out:
tsx: 1
audi: 0

Number of times A/C Unit went out:
tsx: 1
audi: 0

Number of times brake rotors needed to be replaced:
tsx: 1
audi: 0

Number of times I ever had/ will have to pay for a maintenace service or defect:
(warranties/free service rock!)
TSX: ~20
Audi: 0

Thanks for pointing out that Audis won't be reliable. I had never thought of that before. It's definitely not the reason I'm leasing this car as opposed to owning it after the warranty/free service period.

Unfortunately the 04 TSX were not very reliable either so for me the Audi will probably be a step up.

jlukja

^^ not fair, you've only had the TT a short time.

TinkySD

I'm sure it will have it's share of problems -- But I don't think it will be more so then the 04 TSXs. And even if it is I don't care, I'll have an A4 to drive from the dealership in the meantime

Tsx536

^^ Hey, what happenned to that?! LOL

TinkySD

haha

I wasn't saying anything bad about the TSX, just listing out a comparison for my friend that questioned my attention to reliability concerns.

I stand by my comments that it was a great car and I will never say anything bad about it!

Simba91102

This remains to be seen. I drove a TT for a couple of years and had no problems at all (actually we had a number of other Audi models from 96 to 05, all pretty much trouble free). I'll assume since he leased the car, he won't have it past warranty anyway. I was in love with mine, but needed more space (although the TT never ceased to amaze me with what I could into that car)(a coupe) and we both were starting much longer commutes. We have no local dealer now and yes, I'll admit that I didn't (and wouldn't) keep one past the warranty.

Simba91102

I'm a little jealous; I wasn't crazy about the new one in print, but it looks much better in the flesh (maybe the best use of the trout grill). And I thought Audi did away with free service after the 06 model year?

TinkySD

If you are leasing you get the benefit of an added residual percentage point for the service contract. That more than pays for the price of the service contract!

mrgold35

Congrats on the new ride!

It will work out perfectly for you when your TT lease is up and the 2011 mid model refresh Type-S sh-awd 2.3L Turbo w/ the added aftermarket hondata reflash TSX hits the show room floor.

waTSX

Congrats on the car.

vwong

Congrats on the new ride!!! Any plan for a chip??? It's a totally different car after just a 91 program. I know because I just got mine!!!

About the reliability, I think Audi has definitely improved on this. It's been 1.5 years (approx. 19k miles) since I got the Audi, and I haven't had a thing that went wrong with mine.

godfather2

congrats on the latest purchase. time to mod ...

dwest1023

Compare to the first year tt. It could be a horror movie. My 06 has been flawless. This is just one example of the many problems that Audi has. I'll take your 04 TSX problems any day. If you want more horror stories go to edmonds, where this came from. As I said the Audi service writer will be your friend.


"I write this response as my TT, which has been the bane of my existence since I bought it 2 years ago, sits in a dealership service bay in more pieces than I care to know. Audi says to replace timing belt at 90,000 miles. My 2001 roadster is well under 75,000. While idling at a stop light one week ago today, the engine sputtered out and would not restart. At first, I believed it to be a repeat of the fuel sender pump problems that stranded me on a dark, snowy, rural road last November. I have no such luck. Some teeth on the timing belt broke which had the same effect as if the timing belt had snapped. Thankfully I was at idle so it only needs 8 new exhaust valves, 4 intake valves, a new timing belt, about $1,500 in labor and a few cam gears. The fact that I was idling at a top light probably saved me from needing a new engine.
Thankfully, I had the foresight to purchase a third-party warranty for 4 years of 48,000 miles which will cover the belt and the valve damage.

"The list of problems I have had with this car are too numerous to list here but suffice itto say that in the first 2 months I owned the car, it was only in my possession for 11 days. It had an endless stream of unrelated problems. The timing belts were the subject of a class action lawsuit that Audi settled a few years ago, but the settlement only applied to specific model years of A4 despite the fact that the same engine in used in many models of VW and Audi and similar timing belt problems seem to be noted for most of them. My dealer's Service Department acknowledges that the timing belts in the turbocharged models are subject to more strain then in cars that are not turbocharged. They also tell me that they encourage customers to have the belts replaced well in advance of the 90,000 deadline. In my case, it appears that I may end up doing well since I will be getting the expensive 90,000 mile service done under a warranty/breakdown insurance contract for far less than the cost of doing it preventatively. While that takes the sting out of it, I remain frustrated with the fact that, on average, the car seems to have some sort of serious failure every 6 months."

tsx 2 nv

comparing DSG to the tsx's automatic transmission is like comparing a civic dx to a civic si. The DSG is designed for clutchless shifting, the tsx's automatic transmission is designed for reliability and fuel economy (maybe?)...so of course the TT is going to be a LOT faster than a tsx.

im just hating though :/ i wish i could FIT in a TT....

congratz!

rb1

Actually, the DSG is VWAG's intended replacement for automatics in general, and the DSG provides both superior fuel economy and performance compared with a torque-converter based automatic. It's also simpler internally and may end up being more reliable in the long run.

Internally, a DSG is really like two manual transmission with two computer-controlled, servo operated wet clutches. The odd gears in one, the even in another. Upshifting is just a matter of releasing one clutch and engaging the other, which is why it shifts so fast in normal acceleration.

Automatics with torque converters have complicated planetary gear systems, are heavy and expensive to build, and require regular service. High mileage cars wil usually end up having some sort of rebuild. Manual transmissions can last almost indefinitely, with the clutch really being the only maintainance item.

TinkySD

I don't disagree that the Audi should have more issues than the TSX. It's just something I had obviously thought about before making the move. I had a higher number of issues with my 04 and NONE of them were due to lack of maintenance or driving style; more first model year jitters. That's why i've said all along I'll likely be comign back to the acura fold when this lease is up for the next TSX... once the first couple years have worked out all the bugs.

The dealer is within 2 miles of my office, free service and warranty and free loaners for any work so I was willing to take the chance. From my own research the 2.0ts are pretty stout motor.

I'll keep everyone here updated on reliability of my car over the next three years; it will be interesting to compare.

TinkySD

That's what I'm hoping for!

TinkySD

I actually have an appointment at the end of the month to get GIAC 91 plus the flash loader so I can put it back to stock.

Most people coming from A4s say the TT feels like it already has a chip compared to the A4 since it weighs a good 500lbs less so it should be pretty wild when I get it installed. 215hp @ 5500 rpms and 240lbft @ 3000 rpms all at the wheels sounds pretty awesome in a 2900 lb car.

dom

Congrats!!

Now get your sorry ass outta here and over to a TT board before I ban you.

moda_way

^^x2

dwest1023

Audi makes some very nice cars. Just test drove the new Audi S5 and it was a blast to drive. Its also a firs t year, so there is no way I would take a chance with a car like that. I really do hope the TT works out for you. Its a darn nice car.

SodaLuvr

The same was said about CVTs. So far, Toyota is the only company that is building bulletproof CVTs. Everyone else's has been a mess.

The DSGs are an absolute maintenance nightmare. They require special tools to fill and perform a fluid level check, and a service kit runs about $175 in parts. Parts and labor together, a DSG fluid and filter change costs about $400 at the dealership and is REQUIRED every 40,000 miles by VW/Audi.

Simba91102

I'm an Audi fan, having owned many (my 225 hp TT is my all time favorite car), but I'll have to agree with the comments here. I think the imminent demise of the conventional (more or less) automatic transmission is greatly exaggerated by those that think it will be replaced anytime soon. The DSG is a neat transmission, and it has its' place in the scheme of things, but I think it will be a very long time before it (or anything like it; BMW's SMT was/is pretty universally considered to be horrible)(including by me)(when I bought my Z4 I drove one and hated it) will become anything remotely approaching the norm.

vwong

Psst.......Tinky, Audizine.com, Audiworld.com, Audiforums.com........

vwong

Awesome. I drove an 06 VW GTI (also a 2.0T, but front wheel drive) with the APR 91 program on the track, and that pretty much sold me to chipping my A4.

TinkySD

I've been on Audiworld for months.... just with a different screenname haha.

SodaLuvr

How do REVO, APR, and GIAC compare to each other? I've always heard that APR was the best of the bunch?

SodaLuvr

Worth reading:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2835332

SodaLuvr

Issues with DSG and hard shifts with chips:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3527499

TinkySD

Trust me I've been doing reserach for months on chips for the 2.0t. It was part of my process of deciding which car I wanted to buy.

The only real issue with ahrd shifts in the DSG is with APR stage II.(that means downpipe/exhauist/intake and flash to take advantage of those mods) Giac and REVO have no such complaints. I'm only doing stage 1 which is jsut software. APR actually has a new DSG file in beta to fix the hard shifts.

I'll give you a quick run down of what I've found in my research on the big 3. I should note that these flashes change enormously over time. When they first came out there were some major concerns but they have all sort of converged towards a similar feature set. At this point and time after a couple years of development all the chip manufacturers provide similar gains.


APR - APR has the most conservative approach to tuning. From the beginning they kept closest to stock Air Fuel Ratios. To go along with this, though, they have the most amount of tunes which are optimized for different mod configurations. In stage 1 (software only) applications most people will tell you that they make slightly less power but are exceptionally smooth. If I was nearer an APR distributor I would probably have gone that way. But I am at least 1 to 1.5 hours away depending on traffic so that was a minus. If you are going Stage 2 APR is probably the best chip. APR allows map switching through the cruise control stalk.


Revo -- This was out from the start for me so I don't have as much info on them as the others People either love or hate revo and they are easily the most aggressive flash. There were scares about a year ago that their exhaust gas temperaturs were WAY above tolerances for the engine. This may or may not have been an issue but is resolved now. The coolest part of revo is the SPS unit. It connects to the obd2 port and allows you to adjust your fuel/timing/boost levels allowing you to tune your own car. just don't dial up too much boost and too little fuel or..... :boom:

Giac -- Giac probably had the worst tune when they first came out but is now one of the best. When they first came out they ran quite lean and requested a ridiculous amount of boost that was never attainable by the small k03 turbo. Nowadays there boost request and AFRs look quite similar to APR. Giac has less flashes than ARP. Currently they have the S chip(low power output...for things such as CVTs). Then they have the X chip which is their aggresive flash for cars anywhere from stock to intake and a 2.5" turbo back exhaust.(stock on the 2.0ts is a 2.5" exhaust but the downpipe is a poor design). This means giac isn't as optimized for a completely stock motor. However most poeple "in the know" swear that on a stage 1 car GIAC always puts down considerably more power and torque than APR stage 1. It's also nice in that if you put on a intake or exhaust later you don't need to get a reflash to take advantage. If you go 3" TBE they do have new reflashes to take advantage. Map switching is done by a obd2 flashloader. It allows you to swith between different maps or put back to stock if taking in for service.


All in all you really can't go wrong with any of the big 3. Giac gets my money because their tune is proven to make serious gains and a local distributor under 10 minutes from my house!