Lucky_Acura

The car usually starts everyday w/o a problem. Depending on the weather (if its not too hot), I can drive less than 10 miles (turn off the car for a while, time it takes to grab a few groceries) and the car will usually restart. Now if I drive from that location to another location (within 3 miles), do the same thing, the car will not restart.

It seems the car is overheating somewhere, and I can't start the car. I hear the starter click, fuel pump turn on but the engine does nothing, the radio comes on... If I wait approx 30 mins or more (depending on how hot the weather is), the car starts with no problem.

The car does not shut off on me, and I can run all errands as long as I don't shut the car off, regardless of how far.

I've already replaced...
New battery, battery terminals, distributor cap, starter, fuel pump, ignition switch, temp sensor, both o2 sensors, main relay and removed the alarm.

Any other suggestions?

main70072

Not saying that this is your problem, but it might be the starter again if you just hear a click and the engine doesn't turn over. Bad starters can act up in cold, hot, humid conditions. I've had a remanufacted starter do that to me a couple months after putting it in.

Lucky_Acura

I'll have it changed out again, hope this is the problem
thanks for the reply

Lucky_Acura

bump

any other suggestions in the meantime?

Dimitri63

I'm not a mechanic but I've owned lots of old cars that occasionally wouldn't start. So far, things seem to be pointing to replacing the starter but you want some other things to try first, right?

Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly, you're saying that when the problem occurs and you turn the key, the electrical accessories come on, the starter relay clicks, but the starter doesn't crank at all, right? Then it seems to me there must be an electrical problem in the circuit that feeds the starter, or in the starter's ground.

1 - Maybe the neutral safety switch (or its connections) is intermittent. Pump the brake pedal harder than normal a few times, then put the transmission into Neutral and try starting. Run the shift lever back and forth through all the gears a few times, then try to start with it in either Neutral or Park.

2 - Maybe the ignition switch (or its connections) is intermittent. I had that problem once with a 1982 Ford Escort. Take the key out, turn it upside down to engage the opposite set of teeth into the tumblers, put it back in & try again. Fiddle around with the key position, maybe push it in a little harder, push & pull on it a bit while turning it.

3 - Maybe a connection to the battery is a little loose or corroded so that insufficient current is reaching the starter. I had that problem with a 1974 AMC Gremlin. Lubricate the battery posts with a bit of dielectric grease (or even Vaseline) & make sure the connectors and cables are tight.

4 - Once I had a 1972 Mercury Comet that occasionally wouldn't start. I carried a little tack hammer in the glove compartment and used it to tap the starter gently in a particular place, then it would start. Eventually replacing the starter fixed that problem.

5 - There are all kinds of connectors that can become intermittent with heat. If you can't think of anything else to do, trace out all the starter and starter relay connections from the battery through the ignition switch, the neutral safety switch and whatever else. Maybe use a voltmeter to verify that power is reaching the starter when you try to crank it. Maybe put a thin film of dielectric grease on the pins of every connector in the circuit you can reach.

Finding an intermittent electrical problem by tracing the circuits and checking with a voltmeter would be easy, except that it's so hard to find & reach the points that need probing, you have to do the checking while the problem is occurring, and sometimes you need a helper to turn the ignition key while you watch the meter. You'll also need a shop manual or at least a wiring diagram for the car. Someone else here on the forum might be able to hook you up with one.

white2.5tl

i too, am having this issue. before i thought it was the alarm but not anymore. replace factory alarm with aftermarket alarm. if i remote start it would work most of the time. i change my starter 3 times this year already. i replace all the parts lucky_acura mention and more like the starter relay and neutral safety switch.

now, when the car is not starting, i would remote start the car and tap the starter. that works most of the time too. then it gives me a check engine code P1359- which is CKP/TDC Sensor Circuit Connector Disconnection. the car still starts though and wont disappear unless i delete the code with a scanner.

that would be the only option i have left to replace. the ckp/tdc sensor cost over $300 and the manual labor is around the same too..lol.. replacing that part is the same as doing timing belt change for the 2.5..

i once saw a webpage that shows concern about the ckp/tdc sensor.
https://sites.google.com/a/sparx-hcs.com/www/acuratl25

Dimitri63

Hi White, just to be sure I understand your situation, you are saying that the starter cranks and the engine turns over but the engine doesn't start running? Or does the starter not crank at all when you turn the key?

That's really good info about the CKP/TDC sensor. (Stands for "Crankshaft position/Top Dead Center" sensor, I had to look it up.) I think the actual CKP/TDC sensors in the 2.5 TL are way down inside the engine somewhere and hard to access. But my TL wiring diagram shows that all the CKP/TDC wires are brought out to the ECM (Engine Control Module) computer. So at least theoretically one might be able to probe them with a multimeter to check if the CKP/TDC sensor is good. I googled for "CKP/TDC sensor" and found some Honda pages where people were talking about how to check CKP/TDC sensor resistances with a multimeter.

Now about security and alarm systems. I don't know much about them. But in one diagram in my TL shop manual I do see something called a "Starter Cut Relay". I didn't see a detailed description for it but it sounds like something else that could cause the starter to not energize.

Years ago I downloaded a copy of the 95-98 TL shop manual and a TL wiring diagram. I don't remember where I got it but I'm pretty sure it was from a link someone posted here on this forum. The shop manual has all kinds of useful stuff about how to check the starter and other things.

Dimitri63

Regarding white2.5tl's message above, there is a wikipedia article on "Crankshaft position sensor". Among other things it says:

"The first sign of crankshaft sensor failure, usually, is the refusal of the engine to start when hot but will start again once the engine has cooled."

I think with a crankshaft position sensor problem the starter will still energize and crank the engine, though the engine does not start. It sounds to me like Lucky_Acura's problem is that the starter simply doesn't crank when the problem is occurring, so I think it's not his CKP/TDC sensor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankshaft_position_sensor

Lucky_Acura

Thanks for the response, I am leaning more towards the problem being the starter.
2 Days ago, it did not start after "cooling down" per se. In fact the car sat for hours and did restart until actually tapping the starter.
We will also entertain, putting some sort of muffler wrap around the starter, still seems to be overheating.

Change the starter, get a better battery, and change out the battery terminals and wires

white2.5tl

most of the time, when i put the key in and try to start the car, the starter would just click or nothing. but then when i remote start the car, the car starts rite up like nothing is wrong. turn off the engine and restart with the key and it would start rite up.

Lucky_Acura

After you replaced the starter the previous times this year, did it start by key at all?
If yes, How long before you had to rely on the remote start again?

white2.5tl

the first one is like 1 week, the second one lasted much better, almost a month..lol.. the third one, which i am still on, lasted like a 10 mins trip to the mall. the previous two, when i uninstall them i would take it to autozone and oreilly to test out if they were bad but both of them tested good. then return it to napa for an exchange. now im just remote starting. when it wont start with the remote, i would tap the starter while remote starting and it would start and give me the check engine code.

mgis

I had same issue before. just get a multimeter,relay,wire roll, wire cutter.etc.etc.
1:- find starter gray plug next to shock absorber, driver side there's a wire black /white strip.
2:-with a multimeter set to 12 volts if you got 20 it will work, attach power lead to started wire and
ground lead to chassis.
3:-try restarting the car and see how many volts you have in the multimeter, if less than 12 volts
the car won't start every time you drive somewhere. if you car starts after 3 hours. you need to add a relay to starter.. if you have this issue , I will post diy relay diagram to connect it.

PSC

Lucky_Acura, I used to have the exact same symptoms, and it was always the starter.
Short trips would be no problem but anything more than 15 mins and it wouldn't start until some time after, like a couple hours or so.
I used to get a jump if possible, that started it up.

I went through several cheap rebuilts from the discount stores, they would last a few months and then act up. I got an auto-electric shop to rebuild one and that lasted for more than two years then acted up too.
I think my TL likes to eat starters.

HP11

But they're so much fun to change! When we bought ours, in January 2013, the starter would 'click' now and them before it engaged. The car came with a folder filled with maintenance records and receipts. Among those was one for a lifetime warrantied starter from Autozone purchased in 2009. I used that to get a free replacement and changed it out. You have to remove the left front tire, axle and exhaust connector pipe. Even then it still takes some effort to get the bolts out. So far it has worked as it should.

HP11

My post above is about changing out the starter on a 3.2. It appears that the 2.5 is considerably easier.....