SPUDMTN

Well, Mercedes is at it again. We all knew about the Mercedes Vision-B. Well, the production B-class has accidentally been caught by spies. This model looks pretty darned good. And it seems that it will be RDX competition if it has 4Matic...

http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=178&n=158

I think it looks pretty good (in typical Mercedes-Benz fashion).

vicpai

.....cross shop this vehicle with the RDX, personally, I don't think it's competition at all to the RDX. Reason why?? Because it does not have ANY ground clearance at all!!! .......It would be a joke if they call that thing an SUV ....it's more like a small hatchback or wagon (even if it has all-wheel-drive)

As far as I'm concerned the only REAL competition to the RDX right now is the BMW X3. The Lexus RX 300 could've been a competitor, but the replacement, the RX 330 is more than 6 inches longer, and so, can no longer be considered a "Small" SUV

The only people that will cross-shop the RDX and this new Mercedes, are the "poseurs" who want to feel like they're buying an SUV, but ABSOLUTELY do not need ANY off-road capability!! .....just look at the MISERABLE ground clearance of that thing....it's practically scraping the ground!!

phile

Looks almost the same as the concept shown in Paris. IMO, it's more of a tall wagon than an SUV. I don't think it's going to sell in the US, as America's love for SUVs does not seem to be dying, nor has sales of the Chrysler Pacifica been any indication that tall wagons will take the crown any time soon.

SPUDMTN

But I don't think either are claiming to have much off-road capability...I don't think MBZ has even called the B-class a true SUV...

I like the idea of these tall wagons--I think they offer the practicality of having all the space of an SUV, with the manners of a car. What's so wrong with this?

brutus

I think the closest competition will be the Mazda MX Crossport which has not been officially declared as being a production model... whatever... it is clearly more production ready then the RDX, why not admit it

I like the styling better I must admit. But the vehicle dynamics like the powertrain, suspension and SH-AWD is clearly gonna be on the side of the RDX.






B.

pgould

...and here I thought the Daimler Chrysler connection was only sending ideas/parts to the American side of the company. Looks like M-B just made a knock-off of the PT Cruiser!

I agree - B Class looks like more of a tall wagon than SUV.

That Mazda looks sweet, though...

SPUDMTN

When I first saw the Mazda concept, I originally mistook it for the RDX. I wonder who has been copying who...

dom

I agree, that Mazda is sharp looking and in direct competition with the RDX.

Any word on the powertrain fo the Mazda?

provench

Hmm ... that Mazda is a looker ... so no word on when it is slated to be released? (In addition to domn's question)

98AccordEx

I did the same thing over on vtec.net. I think the Mazda will be cross shopped a little like the Mazda6 is to the TSX - you know it will be a notch lower in cost, features and luxury.

Everyone is focused on the X3 and that's one but also the FX35 which while quite a different animal offers similar passenger space in a sporty luxury package although cargo space seems lacking. Also I guess the Mercury Mariner could be considered a competitor as the RDX will be a CRV cousin and the Mariner is a Escape cousin. Granted it seems like a relatively weak competitor.

It seems Acura is actually in this growing class of vehicles a little earlier than usual as we are coming up with relatively few true competitors. I'm sure more competiton will come forward in next years Auto shows.

AcuraFan

And there are plenty of people who would say calling the RDX an SUV would be a joke...it's all perspective. The RDX will definitely NOT going to be a good offroader. Which is fine, probably more than 95% of SUV buyers will never take it offroad anyway.

I think the X3 is what Acura is aiming at with its size and suggested power levels...which seems kinda weird because I don't think the X3 is selling all that well and has been panned by critics all over the place.

Like I said earlier, probably 95% of SUV will never see gravel, much less offroad conditions (unless a soccer mom over-estimates her SUV's abilities and slides it right off an icy road). Therefore, a majority of SUV buyers are "poseurs". I think SUVs like the RDX and this Benz are great because they know they aren't kidding anyone...why make a rough truck-based SUV for trips to the grocery store and soccer practice?

AcuraFan

An Acura that can compete in style and power with the FX. That is definitely something I'd love to see in production.

98AccordEx

If the RDX got the 3.0V6 with paddle shifters and SH-AWD I wouldn't put money on the RDX in a straight line but on a road course I think the RDX would shine.
If only we get that combination!

brutus

I hope someone at Acura/Honda is listening cause that just sold me if they also added VCM, consider me your biatch :-)

B.

98AccordEx

I think I'll be an RDX biatch too, that combo sounds good enought to wait for!!! :-)

Cheque

I have to say, Mazda's vehicles keep getting better and better.

Is this concept going to replace the current Mazda Tribute? Or is it an addition to current Mazda's line?

phile

I think it's a replacement. I've always thought that the Mazda Tribute looked much better than its Ford Escape stablemate, but sales for the Tribute was not as impressive. Hopefully this will do better.

soopa

Well, Acura had the pentagram grille first... but Mazda had the skinny headlights first....... soooooooo............

phile

Which Mazda? All of the earlier Japanese cars basically had skinny headlights, but it was the first gen CL that had the "cat's eyes" look first on an Acura in 1996. Mazda didn't have that until the Protege of only a couple of years ago.

provench

I was reading oup on the FX35 and X3 ... both of them can launch to 60 in around 6.5secs and make a VERY sports sedan like respectable run through the slaloms. I hope with the RDX being lighter and hopefully peppy enough V6 that Acura is going for the same type speed and handling prowess (TSX meets MDX). At this point they have hyped up the "sport" aspect of the RDX so much, quite honestly anything less would be a disappointment vs. the competition.

For me if the performance is the same as the TSX, going to be a tough call for me to move ... however, if it performs BETTER ... it's a slam dunk.

biker

If this thing is based on the A-class it's going to be much smaller than the RD-X, never mind the fact that it's not an SUV. Have you seen the A-class - it's just a Smart car on steroids.

TSX 'R' US

wow...that Mazda looks pretty good!

98AccordEx

I think the X3 that will do 0-60 in 6.5 is the 3L I6 and the FX is the FX45. I don't expect those types of numbers from the RDX nor do I want to pay the price of either of those vehicles >$40,000.

As we are figuring the RDX will compete with the 2.5 X3 and FX35 and that's a fine mix of sport, luxury, value and utility for me.

dom

I hope Honda is reading this board.

I4 in the RDX = Big Bomb Honda. Don't make that mistake.

domn, who thinks the RDX will have the K24.

DEI99662

That Mazda doesnt look that bad.

brutus

I have to say it looks pretty sweet, better then the RDX IMO.

I wonder what happens lets say they both get V6 engines with similiar HP/TQ numbers, but the Mazda is $3000-5000 less?

Would the SH-AWD and most likely slightly better quality Acura still have the edge... I dunno. In fact the Mazda also appears to me to have a bit more space in the rear, but that is completely subjective. I am curious anyone go to the show and can comment on the size difference if any between the RDX and MX Crossport?

B.

dom

The RDX as it is, is so far from production you can't compare. It would never come to market with that little interior space.

brutus

Interior wise yes, but exterior wise it is pretty close... and if you look at the rear section behind the door edges, it does indeed appear to be shorter then the Mazda... I just don't see any major changes in the overall design that says they will expand it to be larger, but I could be wrong.

On another note... is it me or do sideview mirrors add to the look of a car... I guess I may be in the minority but these sideview camera's just make the car look more plain...maybe I just have to get used to it, and I do realize that the RDX will have sideview mirrors... just saying.

Here is another pic better shot of rear 1/4 view of Mazda:


B.

dom

That Mazda is very good looking. I still don't see where they plan on slotting into their lineup. Is it a Tribute replacement or does it slot above or below the Tribute?

phile

Keep in mind that when the MDX was in concept form, it was actually smaller than the production model. I've read that it was indeed a 7/8th scale of the true production model.

brutus

Wow that is interesting, learn something knew every day... As GI Joe likes to say knowing is half the battle :-P

So can our illustrious informant Justin shed some light on this then.... I do really hope it is a bit larger inside... at least the backside.

B.

brutus

Here is what I found ftom this Autoweek article:
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101572
Ecerpt:
"Mazda officials positioned the concept as an exercise hinting at future design direction. But Moray Callum, Mazda general manager of design, said such a vehicle would likely appear in the Mazda lineup in the next few years. It would be an addition to the Tribute and the MPV."

I feel like there is a mole between Mazda and Acura... seems like it would be released around the same time as the RDX... a small sporty SUV alternative. I say Mazda got the styling upperhand.

B.

98AccordEx

I found another AUTOWEEK article:
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101617
Sport Wagon Stampede: Designers scramble to define the station wagon for the 21st century

This one is about the growth of the Sport Wagon trend and how it is blending SUV and more traditional stationwagons.

The best-selling sport wagon last year was the Ford Escape followed by the Honda CR-V. Five vehicles entered the segment last year: the Chevrolet Equinox, Hyundai Tucson, Ford Freestyle, Mercury Mariner and BMW X3.

Cheque

Well, as of right now we're not even sure when the Mazda Crossport is going to be released. So, quite a number of people will buy the RD-X when it comes out next year.

The second thing is the build quality. Like someone mentioned earlier, people actually cross-shopped between the TSX and the Mazda 6, but in my opinion the TSX still offers a much higher interior/exterior quality than the Mazda 6. So, I'm expecting the same thing will happen, given that both the RDX and the Crossport would get similar engines and horsepowers.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the Mazda 6 and I think it's a great car. But it's still not in the same league with the TSX, though.

markotsx

I (we) lease / own both in silver,
Lease 04 Mazda6 - GT - V6 - Fully Loaded AT (wifey's new car) after I got really bored with it.. traded in a 2000 Passat Wagon on a TSX..we have a little one but the wagon is a waste..never go out of town, parents live in other parts of Canada.. space for nothing!! My mistake though..

05 TSX - 6MT (my new car) picked up Jan 14th...love it!

I agree with you regarding the interior - exterior quality. Although the price difference is pretty considerable in Canada. No wiggle room on the Acura, tons on the Mazda... I think the Acura is a better car for me..personal preference, I don't feel the need for a V6 like others, and I love the TSX, fits me like a glove.. I had a 96 Audi A4 before the Mazda and the TSX kicks its ass except the snow factor..

I'm going to trade in the 6 on either a RDX or the MX Crossover in a couple of years after they both come out.. No decision yet..I hate clear tail lights though, so I hope they both offer regular red...

SpartanTodd

The last Mazda I owned was a 94 Probe GT.....it burned oil at 20,000 miles (A Ford engineered by Mazda). When I purchased the Probe I was down to the Integra and the Probe. Big mistake that I will never make again. Should have bought the Integra.

To compare the RDX to a Mercedes or a Mazda, sorry I don't get it? The Mercedes will be under powered and overpriced and the Mazda will suffer from the same build quality issues that the Mazda 6 suffers from. Mazda = Ford. Drive the Honda CRV vs the Ford Escape or Mazda Tribute and you will understand Japanese engineering compared to American. The CRV has less hp than the Escape yet CRV is faster 0-60 than the Escape with the larger/heavier V-6. Look at resale.....CRV wins hands down. Compare gas mileage, interior space, build quality, etc...and it comes down to looks and towing that separate the two. Expect the RDX take over the lead in the small SUV market. The BMW X3 3.0, Murano, FX35 and RX330 will be the competitors.....Personally, I believe the RDX will be a better iteration of the Murano or X3 3.0.

markotsx

Ford = Mazda, man are you naive. You remind me of the Audiworld snubs.. test drive before you comment.. Have you driven or been in a Mazda showroom? They aren't "Ford"...at all.. sit your ass in one and drive...before you judge..

I test drove the FX35 six times before deciding it wasn't for us.. we have a three year old and one on the way soon, but have you read the reviews regarding the FX in winter check this out..

http://www.infinitifx.org/ ...........or .............http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthre...X45&PHPSESSID= it might be the worst SUV in the snow..without winter tires.. search "winter driving"... big tires look nice but in the winter... price you pay for the look the other 3 seasons...

I hope Acura and MAZDA keep this in mind when working on the AWD...

Till they arrive

ou sig

The X3 3.0 has a 0-60 time of 7.6 seconds...http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/X3/30i/techdata.htm

SpartanTodd

Sorry to have offended you (not my intent). Little did I know that you leased a Mazda 6 and purchased a TSX. I personally am down to the TSX, Accord, Subaru Legacy GT and the potential RDX. The dealership here in Grand Rapids sells both Mazda and Acura out of the same show room. I have driven the TSX back to back with the Mazda 6 and I agree with you that Mazda has come a long way. It is still not Acura/Honda quality (my opinion). The TSX or even the Accord are my perferred vehicles at this point in time. They make the 6 here in my home state of Michigan and build it in the very same plant that built my beloved Ford Probe GT (Flat Rock Michigan). The Mazda 6 is an entertaining vehicle to drive but, me personally, would never buy one (lease maybe). It is a lot of car for the money but, I have had enough of the Ford/Mazda relationship. Sorry, I hold a grudge. This was my first new car and I was a little tweaked that I had a vehicle that burned oil at 20,000 miles. This has NEVER happened with Honda or Acura products and I pile on the miles and owned many over the years.

I am not sure how much of a car guy you are (so don't jump to conclusions and roast me like the Audi idiots) but, the Mazda 6 will have a new Ford sibling very soon, ie the Ford Fusion. Same engine, slight tweeks in the drive train, different sheet metal, same manufacturing facility. Tribute = Escape. When I implied that Ford = Mazda my meaning was not to say that they are the same. Obviously, they are two separate companies that operate independently. My point was that as long as these two companies share components, drivetrains, manufacturing facilities, etc., they will continue (in my mind) to be judged the same (one burns oil they all burn oil). When the engine is the same, the transmission is the same, I kinda think that they are the same minus a few handling tweaks and fabric texture items.

Can't we all just get along? Peace?

markotsx

Sorry to be such a beeatch yesterday... I was out of control.
Buy the TSX or wait for the RDX, I agree they're better than the Mazda.. I was so close to buying the Legacy GT (super fast) before I test drove the TSX.. I don't race off the line, and the fit and finish is much better in the Acura.. I have 250 miles on the Acura and have enjoyed everyone so far..




I do like the look of the MX Crossport though... we'll have to wait and see...

Sorry Todd..