dennis

I want to get the ZEX dry system. I did some searches but didn't really find and answers to my questions. Do you absolutely need a purge kit and a bottle warmer? What will happen if I don't get these?

How useful is a remote bottle opener? Is it safe to buy a used system? What can go wrong with buying a used nitrous kit? Am I missing anything else I need?

How hard is the install? Is this something I can do myself? Thanks guys.

97Acura3.0CL

ask dustbuster he knows best but you have a 2.3 but same thing bottle warmer is be3tter supposedly and a purge kit to to clean you lines out before and after spraying right?

dustbuster4

You don't need the purge kit or bottle warmer to run nitrous.

Since you're in Hawaii, you probably would never need the bottle warmer. The warmer only "kicks on" when the air temperature drops below a certain degree. The purpose of the bottle warmer is to make sure that the bottle (and nitrous) is warm enough to create the pressure necessary to force it out of the bottle and into your engine (usually about 900 psi or higher for an optimal nitrous shot.

The purge kit is to rid the nitrous system of gaseous nitrous so that you have liquid nitrous spraying into your intake. Liquid nitrous produces more power than when in gas form. The purge kit also allows you to get rid of nitrous that remains in the lines after you close the bottle. Theoretically, this prevents the nitrous that would remain in the lines from leaking into your cylinders and detonating upon starting your car (say, the next moring). Personally, I think it sounds and looks great to be able to "purge" to let others know you're gonna kill them in a race!

I LOVE my remote bottle opener, I can turn the bottle on and off within seconds from the front seat! This really helps when you get the unsuspecting ricer who wants to race. I just push the button, and the botlle is open and ready to spray. Unless you plan to keep your bottle open, each and every time you drive, you're fucked if someone wants to race you (unless you say: "Please wait a moment while I pop my trunk and turn on my bottle.") By this time, you've just been walked by Mr. Ricer, cause he's long gone! :P If you don't do any street racing (which I'm not condoning ) then you really don't need a bottle opener. Personally, I think it's worth the money!

My first nitrous system (Zex dry kit) was bought used. However, the dude didn't send me about 25% of the parts! So I ended up spending the same money on a used kit that I would have spent on a new kit! The used system should be safe, but be aware of the seller. Know your buyer, and make sure the kit wasn't abused!

I would buy a pressure gauge for the bottle. This will let you know that you have optimum bottle pressure to get a good shot to the engine. You can get one off of eBay (brand new) for under $45.00

Installation isn't very difficult, with the hardest part being the wiring. If you are good with wiring a sound system, then you can install the Zex kit with ease. Just take your time, and don't rush things. Give yourself a day to take time and read (and re-read) the instructions. Know where you want your switch(es) mounted so you can run the wires appropriately.

Running the nitrous lines is easy. Mounting the Zex "Purple Box" (the brain) is easy. Mounting the bottle is easy (but again, plan ahead where you want things to go, then do it).

If you need suggestions (or pictures of my set-up) let me know.


One last thing: I would get a WET KIT versus the dry kit. It's safer and more efficient.

dennis

Thanks for the info Rick. I did decide to go with the wet kit. I heard a lot of people were having problems tuning their fuel system and not getting optimal output with their nitrous.

Where did you put your switch Rick? How cool does the switch that comes with the kit? I want something pretty fancy. What wires do you have to tap in to? Are there a lot? Someone mentioned that I needed a dump valve to race on the track? How important is this? Do you have the purge kit? If so, where did you mount it? Would it be bad If I had the bottle on for a full day? And if I did, why so? I can get a ZEX wet kit for $490. Is this a good price? I know I also have to get the spark plugs but is there anything else that doesn't come with the kit that need to be upgraded? Spark plug wires? So many questions...

AcUrALiTy

lucky bastard, now your sure to smoke me... and when you sell your car sell me your nos!

dennis

I talked to my mom the other day. It looks like my car will be going to my little brother and I'll be driving the S500.

dustbuster4

I put my nitrous arming switch and purge button in the cup holder. The switch had a cover which flips up, then you flip the toggle switch.




Tapping into wires depends on which components you get. The arming switch wires run from wherever you mount the switch to the purple box (nitrous management unit). This wire will need to run through a gromet in the firewall. As for the exact location of the power sources and grounds, I'll need to check on this as it's been almost a year since I installed the kit (I just don't remember).

Having a "blow down" tube is necessary at some tracks. You can get on off of eBay pretty cheap http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2444335864 .


I have a purge kit. It's located here. You can disregard the red words (the pic was meant to show where the gromet was--for another person's question). You can see the letters "Ze" on the purge solenoid. and the copper hard wire running up towards the wind shield (under the letter "m" in "Grommet".





You can keep the bottle on for a whole day.

$490 for a wet kit is good. Definitely get the Zex plugs. Your stock plug wires will be fine. You shouldn't need anything else.

dustbuster4

BTW: This is where I tapped into the fuel line:




And the location of the Throttle Body Sensor (TPS) where you need to wire the management unit:

1998c1500

what is the difference between the dry and wet kit?

jblaze_RENAMED

A dry kit sprays through your intake, a wet kit is connected through your fuel lines.

dennis

Both kits spray through your intake. Dry kit sprays nitrous only and wet kit sprays fuel and nitrous.

dennis

Alright, most every car specific board has a post like this and I felt like it's about time we had one. The information about N20 (dinitrogen oxide) is so scattered, and largely uninformed on this board anyway. So on to it.

Introduction part (skip this if you’re not bored):
Dinitrogen Oxide, "Di" because nitrogen is a diatomic molecule and can only exist as two atoms of nitrogen together, other diatomic molecules include hydrogen, oxygen, bromine, iodine, and chlorine, but that dosen’t really matter. Nitrous was discovered by Joseph Priestly in 1772, introduced to dentistry in 1844 by Horace Wells, blah blah blah. Many people know nitrous was originally used in WWII piston powered airplanes for a little extra boost, and for more information on the history of nitrous (and the history of NOS, the company) click here.

What nitrous is/does:
Nitrous is stored as a liquid and done so by using pressure— 10.857 PSI per degree Fahrenheit to be exact. When you go to get your bottle filled at your local performance shop, you won’t just get a bottle of nitrous, you’ll also get sulfur dioxide (pretty much ass gas since it smells bad) to keep you from huffing it or selling it to little kids at raves. You weren’t planning to do either of those anyway were you?

Continuing, nitrous oxide works the way it does because unlike regular air, it is 36% oxygen, regular air has a 23% oxygen content. At the magical and wonderful temperature of 572ºF N20 gives up those tasty oxygen atoms, and as most of us know, more air means more gas is burned, which in turn means more power. Also when the nitrous decompresses it cools the regular air coming into the engine which means denser air, which means more air in the same space, which is a very good thing. Basically nitrous oxide is better air than air.

What nitrous doesn’t do:
Burn, nitrous oxide does not burn, it is not flammable! Basically, the air around you burns when you light a match, if you lit a match in a room of nitrous, thanks to more oxygen, which is flammable, the match would burn brighter and longer. Alright now that we’re past that. Nitrous doesn’t blow up engines, this is what happens: !!!IMPORTANT PART!!! In a “dry” application, pure nitrous oxide (and sulfur dioxide if you’ve been following along) are sent into your intake via a “jet”, jet size determines the amount of horsepower you’ll get out of the “shot” of nitrous. Nitrous wants to be a liquid so when it’s flying through the air if it doesn’t make it to the engine before it turns back into a liquid and settles into your intake manifold, this is called puddling, a simple common backfire of your engine will at some point be exposed to this mass amount of N2O that is now sitting, liquefied at the bottom of your intake, causing a mass explosion, well mass might be too strong a word, but its gonna cost ya a bunch to fix it. In a “wet” application where nitrous and fuel are injected into your intake puddling is even more dangerous because there is now fuel and N2O sitting in your intake waiting to explode (think of Apollo 1, they filled it entirely with oxygen, everything was fine until a tiny spark blew it up on the launch pad) How do we make sure the nitrous explodes in the cylinder and not the intake manifold, by getting it there quicker, how do we do that? By pulling more air into the engine faster, we do that by raising your engine’s speed (it’s RPM) more air is then getting sucked in. 4000 RPM and above are generally considered safe to send nitrous into, but the higher the safer so long as it’s far enough away from redline that you can shift if you have a manual transmission. This is where automatics reign supreme, the drivers don’t have to worry about shifting, the engine shifts at redline every time, further preventing engine damage. Also, a straight intake pipe rather than the air boxes most cars have offers less places for the nitrous to get stuck and puddle. From pure appearance the 350Z’s intake looks like a safe enough factory intake to send nitrous into.

Nitrous systems:
There are dry shots and there are wet shots. Dry shots are sending just nitrous into your intake, wet shots are sending nitrous and fuel into your intake. Dry shots are used for ~75HP and below because your ECU can detect the mass amount of oxygen and send more fuel in to compensate, above 75HP or there abouts, your engines gonna need a little extra help getting the right amount of fuel in the cylinders, this is where the wet shots come in. I personally prefer dry shots because I feel like they’re safer, and don’t feel that an “all-nitrous” race car is a good idea. If you’re reading this you probably don’t need to worry about direct-port nitrous injection, but if you want to know what it is, it’s sending nitrous and fuel directly into your intake ports. This is done in very high horsepower shots ~150 and above in order to ensure equal fuel and nitrous distribution to each cylinder.


Nitrous companies:
-Holley’s NOS –Blue bottle
-NX – White bottle
-Zex – Purple bottle
-Venom –Black bottle
-Bottle color doesn’t mean jack. There are probably other companies using those colors too.

Alright, here’s my opinions on the above companies. I don’t like NOS, I like NX, I’ve heard bad things about Venom, but I think they have good ideas, and I’m indifferent to Zex but it supposedly has a very simple install due to clumping together parts in little boxes. Now here’s why. I don’t like NOS because they’ve done that thing big companies like Sony and Olympus have done, they got a big name, and then start making poor quality products, using their name plate to sell products. I also don’t like NOS because of stuff like this “NOS has always been known for thoroughly engineering each application (unlike our competition)”— straight from their website, which does offer lots of good information on nitrous. If you’re a diehard domestic lover, you’re probably all about tradition and will go for it just because of the name, also if you’re a die hard fast and furious fan you’ll probably go with NOS due again to it’s name, but soon NX will be the nitrous of 2fast 2 furious, so where will ya be then. NX is my personal favorite, they offer a great assortment of accessories, as does Zex, including a remote bottle opener, but honestly, with the two-seater Z, do you really need to spend a couple hundred bucks to not reach into the hatch area? NX sells high-quality parts and has good support from what I’ve heard. Zex as I said, provides the simplest install and offers lots of accessories; ask around about their product quality, I haven’t heard much about them. Venom offers some pretty hardcore computerized nitrous set ups for a bundle of cash, which seem to be really really good, but from what I’ve recently heard, people run into lots of problems with the set up. If you find someone with any set up ask them how they like it and why.

Overview:
You have a bottle full o’ N20 you shove the hose in your intake and point it towards the throttle, then at the push of a button, or at the trigger of a couple thousand RPM your engine gets more air, your fuel burns more, you engine RPM jumps, and your car is cleared for take off. By the way, the trigger at a couple thousand RPM I speak of is called a “window switch.” Also it’s important to know that once you’ve installed nitrous you only have to run it when you want, there is an “arming” switch which I believe is in all set ups so you only get nitrous when you want it. Other kinds of switches are the fast and furious style buttons and the WOT (wide open throttle) switch, or a combination of any of those.

Appends:
I suppose I should talk a little more about the jets and how often a bottle costs to refill and how quickly it runs out.
To fill a bottle of N20 at your local automotive performance store costs anywhere from $3.50 to $5.00 a pound, the standard bottle size is 10lbs but ranges from 10oz. to 20lbs so $35-$50 a bottle to fill for your standard car kit. How long the bottle lasts is based around your jet size and running time, or at least the estimated horsepower produced by your jet size. If you run a 50 shot, which is ~50HP (I’ve seen 50 shots make over 60HP with the right bottle pressure) and a jet size of 35 if you're interested you will use 0.4lbs of nitrous every 10 seconds, so a little over 4 solid minutes on the bottle, by the way, your engine will die if you're on the bottle for 4 minutes straight since you'll be bouncing off the rev limiter for about 3.5 minutes NX's website gives the formula 0.8 lbs N2O X 10 seconds = 100 horsepower if you want to apply that to what you think you’re going to run.

Jet Sizes:
I honestly have no idea what the jet size number means, other than the fact that it’s a scale of the size of the hole in the jet. Using my calculator a fairly close relation of jet size to horsepower is the formula .0217j + 1.469j - 18.657 = P where 'j' is the jet size and 'P' is the estimated horsepower, this estimation is at a bottle pressure of 1050PSI. Since I don't expect any of you to use that formula which is 99.5% accurate here are some examples:
Jet Size:Estimated Horsepower@1050psi
14:10
20:22.5
26:30
35:52.5
46:95
62:170

dennis

Stolen from CLpower. Here is the orginal thread:

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...ht=bad+nitrous

CLpower

lnsyone

ROFL


bwahahahahhaqhahahhaha

AcUrALiTy

not going to hook me up with some parts? rear lip? teins?

jamolie

Wait... i always heard that a dry kit is safer than a wet kit. The advantage of a wet kit (besides the ones u meantioned) is that you can eventually upgrade when you decide to up the spray to 100+. Correct me if im wrong.

CLpower

wet is safer You run more of a chance of running lean w/ a dry kit. Wets are more efficient above 100 as you said.

dustbuster4

Sideways240sx

If you ended up buying a used kit it might not be a bad idea depending on the price, but be ready to have the solenoids rebuilt. You dont want a solenoid leaking, that could be bad..... Besides that if you end up getting a wet kit when you install it, spray ontime with only the fuel, and have the bottle not connected. Next make sure the nitrous solenoid opens and closes.... you can hear it click when u engage the system... last get on an open street and make sure you have alot of room infront of you. I used to have nitrous on my 240 with my KA, before i swapped to the sr. I used to leave my bottle open all the time. Not the brightest idea but it was nice always having it.. I had a bottle warmer but i live in chicago, so i definatly needed one, or i would have like 300 psi with a full bottle. Be carefull with the nitrous when you get it... Start with a small shot, like 50 and check the plugs after a couple sprays. You will get a good idea of how your motor is reacting to the nitrous. Jet sizes are different with every compnay, so if you get a zex kit, get zex jets if you ever buy bigger ones. I believe thats it but if you ever need any help you can ask me.... AIM Sideways240sx, peace... Chris

f0de

sorry to drop in here.. but ZEX is garbage.. along with the rest of the nitrous kits on the market.. the ONLY good nitrous kit.. is NITROUS EXPRESS.. you get a wet system.. because I personally know that you will not be able to adjust your fuel system correctly for a straight shot of nitrous.. do you plan on running a standalone? paying 2k in dyno time to tune your nitrous? what if its a cunthair off.. oh right.. detonation.. thats when your motor blows up due to lack of fuel.

So basically.. get a NX kit.. and about the bottle warmer.. if your in hawaii you do need a warmer.. a warmer does more then you guys think.. when you are running on half a tank of Nitrous you can crank the bottle warmer on and heat the bottle to 150 degrees or so.. so the gas expands and you get double the life out of the bottle.. is it 150 degrees in hawaii.. i didn't think so..

btw.. this forums great ]]

CLpower

w/ an FPR, bigger Fuel Pump I don't see him having any problems dumping enough fuel into the motor. Add in some bigger injectors and he'll be fine. I don't see any need for a stand alone? If so tell me what you are thinking.


And I never used a bottle warmer, but the bottle must be warm to use nitrous. I would just throw it under the passenger side heater vent. A bottle warmer is more effecient though. You won't double the length of the bottle by heating it, because it should never be below 900 when using the nitrous anyways. Spraying on a cold bottle makes you teh dumb.

dustbuster4

ZEX is not garbage. I've been running a Zex system (both wet and dry) for 1 1/2 years with no problems!


All the bottle warmers I've seen cut off when a certain temperature is reached. I know it's not at 150 degrees. Unless you remove the temperature sensor from the warmer, it will shut down automatically. Otherwise, the bottle would explode (if you forgot to turn it off).

f0de

you see when you just guess at your air/fuel mixture.. that companys spent millions of dollars on to get just right.. the car blows up.. the only way to make a dry system work is to have a standalone and dyno time.. lots of dyno time..

with NX.. there is a perfect mixture of fuel AND nitrous being mixed together and shot into the intake manifold or the intake. "Shark Nozzle" is the best thing since sliced bread.. I've said this for about 3 years.. and no one ever listens

f0de

oh and btw.. about warmers again.. if you don't want to spend 50-100 bucks on a warmer.. get a blowtorch.. much faster

dustbuster4

Do you mean a nozzle like this:




It's not a great pic.

dustbuster4

Here's a better pic:

f0de

I thought Zex was dry only.. they make a wet system now too? I still wouldn't trust it if it uses the same black box that they use on the dry system.. as I've seen handfulls of them go up in smoke..

dustbuster4

Box is redesigned and about 1/2 the size the the Dry unit.

This is the easiest wet system to install, and I would say the safest.

CLpower

all nitrous setups should be dyno'd in my opinion. That is the problem w/ most people that blow motors. They don't realize nitrous takes as much tuning as any other FI


A VAFC will tell you your A/F rations so will the correct gauge.

dustbuster4

I'm installing a VAFC in the next few weeks (I just bought a used one).

I hope to get on the dyno after the new year.

f0de

I don't consider ease of installation a buying point in a nitrous product.. I've swapped out every honda motor into every other honda.. a nitrous system is like cutting a sandwich.. it comes with instructions and for NX.. you do not need dyno time, infact it won't do anything for you unless you have some type of engine management..

if you have a dry system.. you NEED dyno time and a standalone..

CLpower

Turbo kits come w/ instructions and are easy to install, most say you can bolt them up and go on the road. But you'd be smart to still dyno tune. I don't think anyone here has said a nitrous kit is anything but easy to install. And just so you know, honda swaps are the fucking easiest thing in the world to do as far as it comes to dropping in a motor (well dropping in a 350 maybe easier because you have more room to play w/) Everything is basically a direct bolt in.


You do not need stand alone w/ a dry system. As I said, you can get your A/F's through a gauge or something like a VAFC. Even w/ a wet kit you'd be stupid not to tune the car on a dyno. I personally wouldn't worry about dyno tuning anything less then a 75 shot, but that's just how it goes.


Why do you say you NEED a standalone w/ a dry kit? Why wouldn't a FPR and bigger fuel pump work in feeding the motor the extra fuel you need?

CLpower

btw Fode, your box is full

Sideways240sx

i would have to disagree that nitrous express is the only good nitrous kit.... I dont know if you guys have heard of top gun? This guy is local to IL, but he actually designed and has patented the Solenoids that NOS uses. This is the guy i learned alot i know about nitrous from, and i had a top gun kit on my 240.... As far as other kits go venom makes a bad ass kit..... Zex is good, along with nitrous express. As far as needing dyno time how much of a shot are we talking about here.... If you got the money and time, a dyno tune with a vafc, or safc and settuing up a nice fuel curve would be nice, but unless ur pushing your motor to the max i wouldn't worry about it.. I mean my lownmower can handle a 50 shot.. Maybe not but if thats all ur spraying i wouldn't really worry about tunning it. Chris

CLpower

agreed, tuning isn't very necessary unless you are shooting 100+ IMP

dustbuster4

I want some dyno time mainly to dial in my VAFC. Also, I want to get some real number of what power I'm putting to the pavement.

Ease of installation is crucial when you're not paying someone to install the kit. Knowing how to correctly install nitrous components can keep you from blowing up your engine. I've seen the NX kit, and would not install it myself. I'm not a pro, and don't pretend to be. My car is my daily driver and my only car. I couldn't afford to fuck it up.

The Zex was a piece of cake. Why??? Because I installed it! :P

I've had no problems with my Zex kit. Easy to install, safe as can be, and no dyno tuning necessary.

Sideways240sx

the zex kit is very nice and easy to install. If i were to buy a kit right now its what i would probably buy, unless i came across a deal i couldn't pass up.

f0de

theres no reason to dyno a wet system... its automatically mixed nitrous and fuel if you install it right.. a dry system requires a lot of work to be as safe as a wet system.. and the only good way to tune a car is to have a standalone... piggy back computers work ok.. but aren't as accurate or intricate as a full standalone.. and considering the price of a hondata.. i'd just get one of those for a dry system.. but honestly you shouldn't even touch a wet system at all with a vafc or anything else.. its mixed allready

minorityCL

Is your kit a Wet or Dry from Zex? Also what shot are you running and what motor do you have?